We should shoot 50 plus threes a game

[mjj_2K]

Some of our worst offensive possessions against Duke were ill advised threes. Just a whacky thread.

Only to the extent that 50 is a whacky number.

UK needs to take more 3's, and to do a lot more to generate open looks from the perimeter. If UK doesn't do that, then UK is very, very easy to guard. Ranking 345th in 3 point attempts is destructive in and of itself, no matter the %. You might be able to win by completely ignoring the 3 pointer, but it's like trying to climb a mountain while carrying a 50 pound weight- a foolish self-imposed handicap.

 

[TortElvisII]

Only to the extent that 50 is a whacky number.

UK needs to take more 3's, and to do a lot more to generate open looks from the perimeter. If UK doesn't do that, then UK is very, very easy to guard. Ranking 345th in 3 point attempts is destructive in and of itself, no matter the %. You might be able to win by completely ignoring the 3 pointer, but it's like trying to climb a mountain while carrying a 50 pound weight- a foolish self-imposed handicap.

Again, the 40 or 50 was for now, not the long haul. We both want Cal to adapt to what is going on.

 

[Cardsstink]

 

[TortElvisII]

Some of our worst offensive possessions against Duke were ill advised threes. Just a whacky thread.

As whacky as this is I have read the following from long time posters:

Get Reid more shots.

Force the ball to Nick.

Bench Herro.

Play Quade to get the ball to Nick and Reid.

The above suggestions are Tubbyesque, 10 and 8 and a solid 4 seed in the SEC Tournament. No matter how many times HOF Coach yells Goooooooooooo.

 

[TortElvisII]

Your best post in this thread.

 

[Cardsstink]

Your best post in this thread.

This is a goofy thread, so I had to contribute with a goofy GIF. Rewatch the Duke game. We shot some UGLY threes that led to fast breaks. Just stop the madness, sir.

 

[TortElvisII]

This is a goofy thread, so I had to contribute with a goofy GIF. Rewatch the Duke game. We shot some UGLY threes that led to fast breaks. Just stop the madness, sir.

Ok...I get it. You like seeing the ball forced inside. Gotcha.

Go hate on UL.

 

[Cardsstink]

Ok...I get it. You like seeing the ball forced inside. Gotcha.

Go hate on UL.

Never said that. Threes have a place in the game, a strong place. But jacking 50 of them is just plain stupid, just as forcing it inside is as well. It's all or nothing with you, so you can't be reasoned with. Good luck coaching the team - you've reduced yourself to a clownshow.

 

[TortElvisII]

Never said that. Threes have a place in the game, a strong place. But jacking 50 of them is just plain stupid, just as forcing it inside is as well. It's all or nothing with you, so you can't be reasoned with. Good luck coaching the team - you've reduced yourself to a clownshow.

The clown show is Rupp half full and people checking out on the team. Playing a style that has proven ineffective against the new fangled way.

Rupp being half full and people tuning out is not 8 million worthy.

 

[jeffbuckies]

I'm pretty sure everyone else in college basketball, from fans of other schools to coaches to players, would love for UK to jack up 50 threes a game.

So yeah, if you want UK to get drummed make sure that they throw up that many threes each game.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

This is a goofy thread, so I had to contribute with a goofy GIF. Rewatch the Duke game. We shot some UGLY threes that led to fast breaks. Just stop the madness, sir.

If those are the only kind of looks we can generate, we should shoot zero threes. But we can definitely get better, our ball movement was horrible and nobody was penetrating the paint and kicking out to the open man. 50 is obviously dumb though, don’t want anyone to think I agree with that.

 

[TortElvisII]

UK is currently 321st in 3 pointers taken per game. We are in bottom 9 of teams that have played three games. High Point is last. Hmmmmmm.

Why would a shooter want to play for that?

Is being 320 to 340 in 3 pointers taken a good thing?

Many top teams are near 30.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

It is time to change things up. Get Rupp full. Keep me awake. Offense is stale. Try it during the little sisters of the poor games.

Who is with me?

Nova shot 45 three's yesterday and lost to Furman. Sounds like a real good idea you have there.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

The top part of your analysis is where Cal is starting to fall way behind. Improve that 34% to just 36%, and suddenly you're talking about the equivalent of 54% 2 point shooting. And there's a lot of evidence that it's easier to get that 34% to 36% (on increased attempts) than to get the 2 point % up from 51% to 54%.

I don't think you have to argue that UK needs to take 30-40 threes a game to argue that Cal's disdain of the 3 is hurting him. It's going to be hard to remain an elite team if you are continually in the bottom third of the country in 3 point attempts, and rarely better than middling in terms of %.

The UNC comparison is common, but they play at a much faster pace than Cal likes, so there are a lot more shots, and a lot more 3 point attempts. They averaged 23 attempts last year, and 20 in 16-17. None of Cal's UK teams has averaged 20 three attempts per game.

Last year's team was outscored by 276 points on 3's, and it's 30 through 3 games this year. You can't be the wishbone coach in the era of spread offenses and expect to stay at the top.

What evidence is there that going from 34 to 36 is easier than 51 to 54?

Given that we don't shoot alot of threes.......it's logical to say that we only shoot them when we are open. If we attempt more threes, there's more reason in my opinion to believe our % would go DOWN not UP.

Really the amount of threes that should be taken is simple. It should be based on the personell you have on the team and whether you have 3 point shooters. We didn't last season. It didn't make any sense to shoot a ton of threes. Whether we have this season remains to be seen.

Last year Villanova had like 4 guys that shot above 40%. They had a couple of guys just under 40%. So they had a TON of shooters.

Teams that take a large % of their shots from are tend to be not good. They are shooting a ton of 3s for a reason.

Also 2s are more consistant than 3s.

If you wanna rely on the 3 point shot for six games in March that's fine but I'm not sure I want to.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

I'm asking you the same question?

Basketball is about spreading the floor and scoring.

Basketball is about winning.

 

[kybassfan]

UK is currently 321st in 3 pointers taken per game. We are in bottom 9 of teams that have played three games. High Point is last. Hmmmmmm.

Why would a shooter want to play for that?

Is being 320 to 340 in 3 pointers taken a good thing?

Many top teams are near 30.

Yet we consistently have the first or second ranked team in the class. You are wrong at every turn. The reason, you only look at data that makes you happy.

 

[kybassfan]

Basketball is about winning.

To him, basketball is purely entertainment. You are absolutely correct in your statement.

 

[mjj_2K]

What evidence is there that going from 34 to 36 is easier than 51 to 54?

Given that we don't shoot alot of threes.......it's logical to say that we only shoot them when we are open. If we attempt more threes, there's more reason in my opinion to believe our % would go DOWN not UP.

Really the amount of threes that should be taken is simple. It should be based on the personell you have on the team and whether you have 3 point shooters. We didn't last season. It didn't make any sense to shoot a ton of threes. Whether we have this season remains to be seen.

Last year Villanova had like 4 guys that shot above 40%. They had a couple of guys just under 40%. So they had a TON of shooters.

Teams that take a large % of their shots from are tend to be not good. They are shooting a ton of 3s for a reason.

Also 2s are more consistant than 3s.

If you wanna rely on the 3 point shot for six games in March that's fine but I'm not sure I want to.

How many spot-up 3 pointers does UK EVER take? I'm talking pure catch and shoot, not what happened with Monk and Murray, where they often ran patterns around the floor before briefly popping open.

Cal would rather have his guys drive into the teeth of the defense and then crash the boards than design stuff where a catch and shoot 3 is a desired outcome, and I'm just not sure that works any more.

Nearly every player, no matter their shooting ability, is better when they're taking perimeter shots off a pass, feet set and ready to fire. I think that's why Wenyen Gabriel, who to my eyes had mediocre touch (with the 62.5% FT shooting to attest to that) could hit nearly 40%- he almost exclusively took those types of shots. Those are the type of shots that NBA teams have been working to get for years now, and 3 pt % continues to rise despite the fact that attempts are skyrocketing.

That's why I think it's easier to go from 34 to 36% on threes than it is to go from 51% to 54% on 2's. You said it yourself- 2's are more consistent. And I think being bottom 50 in 3 point attempts while still not generating all that many open looks is not a viable long-term philosophy any more.

 

[TortElvisII]

Basketball is about winning.

Yet we consistently have the first or second ranked team in the class. You are wrong at every turn. The reason, you only look at data that makes you happy.

High Point.

Top ranked class.

Trends.

Try to compute.

BTW, Villanova won 2/3 titles.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Again who are these extremely efficient offenses that are taking a bunch of 3s?

Even a team like Duke is merely middle of the pack when it comes from % of shots taken from 3 point land.

Villanova is the exception, not the norm.

And not surprisingly, it hasn't worked out so well for them this year.

Again leading to the belief that you need the personel to pull something like that off

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Someone mentioned UNC.........they are even more against taking 3s than we are.

Under Roy they have consistently ranked towards the bottom in 3 point attempts as a % of total shots.

So again where are these efficient teams that have adopted this approach.

There are none.

 

[mjj_2K]

Another note on this: Cal has gotten more conservative with the 3 over time. His Memphis teams of 05-06 through 07-08 all averaged well over 20 three attempts per game, more than any team he's had at UK.

It seems like partial Joe B. Hall syndrome- the more Joe B was able to get quality size, it seemed the less he was able to focus on anything but that.

If Cal would just go back to what he was doing at Memphis, I'd be happy. I suspect he feels like giving freshmen the green light can be destructive (and he might be right), but the offense just seems stagnant way too often.

 

[TortElvisII]

Again who are these extremely efficient offenses that are taking a bunch of 3s?

Even a team like Duke is merely middle of the pack when it comes from % of shots taken from 3 point land.

Villanova is the exception, not the norm.

And not surprisingly, it hasn't worked out so well for them this year.

Again leading to the belief that you need the personel to pull something like that off

Duke and Carolina are in upper 1/3.

Because the three is a tool to try to get back in the game, everyone should realize that teams that take an exorbitant amount of threes are merely trying to get back in games and aren't the best teams. That doesn't mean that very good teams don't shoot threes as part of a normal offense.

 

[TortElvisII]

Someone mentioned UNC.........they are even more against taking 3s than we are.

Under Roy they have consistently ranked towards the bottom in 3 point attempts as a % of total shots.

So again where are these efficient teams that have adopted this approach.

There are none.

UNC is averaging 20 plus per game.

UK 14.

Try again.

 

[TortElvisII]

Someone mentioned UNC.........they are even more against taking 3s than we are.

Under Roy they have consistently ranked towards the bottom in 3 point attempts as a % of total shots.

So again where are these efficient teams that have adopted this approach.

There are none.

Pace....pace.

 

[BigBlueMasterpiece]

Again who are these extremely efficient offenses that are taking a bunch of 3s?

Even a team like Duke is merely middle of the pack when it comes from % of shots taken from 3 point land.

Villanova is the exception, not the norm.

And not surprisingly, it hasn't worked out so well for them this year.

Again leading to the belief that you need the personel to pull something like that off

So how many good 3 pt shooters need to be on the floor at a time to qualify as the right personnel? How many good 3 pt shooters do we have? At what point do the scales tip?

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

UNC is averaging 20 plus per game.

UK 14.

Try again.

You have to look at it as a % of total shots taken, not total attempts.


Total attempts ......so really your issue isn't that we don't take enough 3 point shots..........it's that we don't take enough shots period because we play at a slow pace.

 

[TortElvisII]

You have to look at it as a % of total shots taken, not total attempts.


Total attempts ......so really your issue isn't that we don't take enough 3 point shots..........it's that we don't take enough shots period because we play at a slow pace.

It makes absolutely no sense for a more talented team to play at a slower pace than a less talented team.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

So how many good 3 pt shooters need to be on the floor at a time to qualify as the right personnel? How many good 3 pt shooters do we have? At what point do the scales tip?

I don't think it should be looked at like either we take a bunch of a 3s or not.

Like I don't think teams go into games thinking we need to take "X amount of shots and X amount need to be from 3".

I think it varies on a game by game basis too. It doesn't just matter whether or not we have good 3 point shooters but also what the defense is willing to give up. Some defenses are very good at running teams off the 3 point line and forcing them into the lane which is something we used to do very well under Cal. Against those team, it makes little sense to force 3s when they are pressing up on you.

Other defenses sag a bit and allow for open threes.......and those you might want to attempt more 3s than you normally would.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

It makes absolutely no sense for a more talented team to play at a slower pace than a less talented team.

I totally agree with that.

But you are talking about two different things. One thing is pace........another is jacking up a bunch of threes.

Playing at a faster pace makes sense if u are the more talented team..........jacking up a bunch of threes when they have more random variation than 2s makes very little sense if u are the more talented team.

 

[mjj_2K]

You have to look at it as a % of total shots taken, not total attempts.


Total attempts ......so really your issue isn't that we don't take enough 3 point shots..........it's that we don't take enough shots period because we play at a slow pace.

That I can agree with.

46 FG attempts vs UConn in the 14 final. 47 against Notre Dame and 54 (but with only 10 FT's) against Wiscy in 2015. 42 against KState. Why does it always have to be a rock fight?

Cal may not like the volatility inherent in taking 3's, but that volatility can work both ways. It's not a coincidence that 3 of Villanova's 4 FF games the last 3 years were pretty much over by halftime. That simply can't happen without the 3, and will never happen for UK as long as Cal insists on trying to beat good teams playing halfcourt to halfcourt.

 

[TortElvisII]

You have to look at it as a % of total shots taken, not total attempts.


Total attempts ......so really your issue isn't that we don't take enough 3 point shots..........it's that we don't take enough shots period because we play at a slow pace.

Total shots is what matters. Percentage is not as important.

 

[kybassfan]

High Point.

Top ranked class.

Trends.

Try to compute.

BTW, Villanova won 2/3 titles.

118 pts. No defense. We lost. Historically. Dirt simple. I must conclude you really don’t enjoy basketball. You just like to watch scoring. That is ok. They have the thing called NBA. You should try it. It’s made for keeping people entertained.

Your entire discussion is moot. Increase scoring by 20% we still lose. Establish just an average defense for UK, it’s close or we win. Very very very simple. Like the guy said, it’s about winning. Only.

 

[kybassfan]

Total shots is what matters. Percentage is not as important.

Wrong.

 

[TortElvisII]

Wrong.

You have no clue.

Shooting 40 shots vs 70 or more.

 

[TortElvisII]

38 taken by VMI.

14 by UK.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

38 taken by VMI.

14 by UK.

And VMI lost by double digits..............despite connecting on 50% of them lol.

 

[TortElvisII]

And VMI lost by double digits..............despite connecting on 50% of them lol.

They beat the spread by 24 points.

Go large.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

They beat the spread by 24 points.

Go large.

and your point is what.

They proved what I've been saying to you all along.

Bombing from 3 is a lesser talented team's philosophy. If you have the less talent you bomb from 3 and pray you have a night where u are connecting...........they did tonight. It still wasn't enough.

 

[TortElvisII]

and your point is what.

They proved what I've been saying to you all along.

Bombing from 3 is a lesser talented team's philosophy. If you have the less talent you bomb from 3 and pray you have a night where u are connecting...........they did tonight. It still wasn't enough.

There is no use having this discussion. Cal is going to plow. We aren't increasing tempo.