Last 4 champs were not great defensive teams. Try to keep up.
We should shoot 50 plus threes a game
- Thread starter TortElvisII
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Last 4 champs were not great defensive teams. Try to keep up.
Well let's try and see. Not everyone can see the future.
You got any lottery numbers?
Well, nice to know someone was satisfied with the Puke performance. We scored 84 pts and got bent over and rode hard. Yeah, who needs defense. I’d say you need to grow up, cause keepin up your way makes us look like blithering idiots. Glad you enjoyed our beat down. At least you got a Pukie highlight reel to drool over.
You really need to stop making things up.
It will take both better offense and defense to beat Duke. And luck. Not sure why so many are in denial. That is a very good team.
I think the only thing made up here is the myth that defense is greatly diminished in importance. That’s a fool’s perspective. This is not the NBA.
Maybe not 50 threes a game but I'm tired of the halfcourt BS. Gotta do something to get the senior citizens out of their seats.
Last year Virginia was number 1 on Pomeroy on adjusted defense. Would you like to guess who was number 1 on offense?
Gonzaga was 1 in defense and Virginia 2. Oklahoma State and UCLA we're top offenses.
2016 UNC was 1 on offense and Villanova 3. Wichita and UL top 2 defense.
2015 Wisconsin and Duke were 1 and 3 on offense. UK was 1 on defense.
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People put too much stock into one game, Duke was 34 pts better on one night. They’re not 34 pts better, they were on fire and teams rarely get that hot. Combine that with us playing poor and you get 34. No need to reinvent the wheel due to one game that was a perfect storm, write it off and move forward.
The media can't seem to understand this and think Duke is better than the 96 Bulls..They played out of their *** and hit everything..Duke starters went 1-11 from 3 and 20% for the game vs East Mich..
When is last years defense start playing this year? Duke went off for 118 on us. You know, that defense that dorsn’t matter? You should really keep up with this year’s games. Stop living in the past.
Involved in 48 point turn around before. It can happen. Lost by 32 returned favor by 16.
Ill play along OP instead of just harassing younlike some of these folk. It’s a hypothetical afterall...
I understand what you’re saying. I think 40 would be a better number than 50, IOT run as close to our normal sets as possible while emphasizing finding the 3 within our set; instead of shooting 3s in a system we won’t run the rest of the year.
You’re saying use the cakewalk games to focus on ball movement and getting game speed 3s up. Run our offensive sets but look for the kick or swing pass instead of getting all the way to the rim. The goal would be to get some muscle memory of swinging the ball quick and shooting without hesitation and hoping it carried over when competition get tougher and you start normalizing the offenses again.
The other side of that blade is, is the juice worth the squeeze. Do we hamper our offensive development because it’s too far away from how we want to play or can we do it within the offense enough that it pays dividends in emphasizing spacing and ball movement?? Idk the answer to that.
I do wish we’d play a full court, trapping, in your face, 1-2-1-1 press or some sort at random spots throughout the game for a few possessions in a row. I think it can be used as something to knock the other team back on their heels if they start to get momentum, like a curveball or a counter punch.
That type of press also forces you to up your intensity and play hard. So it could be used to start the game or in spots where Cal feels they are getting lax, to increase energy and focus. It’s easy to play at 80% and feel like 100% when you’re in the repetitive nature of half court basketball. Use it as a shock to they system/adrenaline shot here and there and let it carry into the halfcourt game.
I understand what you’re saying. I think 40 would be a better number than 50, IOT run as close to our normal sets as possible while emphasizing finding the 3 within our set; instead of shooting 3s in a system we won’t run the rest of the year.
You’re saying use the cakewalk games to focus on ball movement and getting game speed 3s up. Run our offensive sets but look for the kick or swing pass instead of getting all the way to the rim. The goal would be to get some muscle memory of swinging the ball quick and shooting without hesitation and hoping it carried over when competition get tougher and you start normalizing the offenses again.
The other side of that blade is, is the juice worth the squeeze. Do we hamper our offensive development because it’s too far away from how we want to play or can we do it within the offense enough that it pays dividends in emphasizing spacing and ball movement?? Idk the answer to that.
I do wish we’d play a full court, trapping, in your face, 1-2-1-1 press or some sort at random spots throughout the game for a few possessions in a row. I think it can be used as something to knock the other team back on their heels if they start to get momentum, like a curveball or a counter punch.
That type of press also forces you to up your intensity and play hard. So it could be used to start the game or in spots where Cal feels they are getting lax, to increase energy and focus. It’s easy to play at 80% and feel like 100% when you’re in the repetitive nature of half court basketball. Use it as a shock to they system/adrenaline shot here and there and let it carry into the halfcourt game.
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I’m sure the OP was over exaggerating the number.... but I do know this team isn’t gonna be the attack the basket team cal has wanted the past 9 years so we gotta do something different imo
Nope. It’s why women aren’t naturally good at estimating measurements or distances. We’ve been “exaggerating” to them their entire lives. Their whole foundation is skewed.
Questioning cal seems to be a sin to these university of Cal worshippers. It shouldn’t take a genius to see that things are not the same as they were ‘09-‘15. UK has to evolve with college basketball but some here love living in the past
I agree that we should shoot more 3s. I don't agree that we should shoot 50 3s a game, however. That's just entirely too many 3 point attempts.
I do believe that the lack of shooting more outside shots has been the detriment to some of our teams in recent years. I think that holds true for 2015, especially. We only attempted FIVE 3s in the game against Wisconsin, in which two of those attempts came in desperation mode with under a minute to go. So, basically, we attempted three 3s in the first 39 minutes of that game. This allowed Wisconsin to really pack their defense inside the 3 point arc. We needed to take more outside shots in order to spread the floor. For whatever reason, we didn't. IMO, that 2015 team was at its best when it was a more free flowing offense and Cal let our gunners shoot. Watch the UCLA and UNCheat games from that season for a good example of this. In the tournament, we got stuck in a grind it out, slow down game instead of trying to push tempo and firing from outside.
Really, though, we should have at least two more titles possibly three or four. At the end of the day, Higgins cost us at least two: 2015 and 2017. A case could also be made for 2011 as well.
The officiating in that Wisconsin game was extremely suspect. I believe a lot of our fans have only watched that game once or just don't really remember. I don't know, maybe they're just stubborn. Truth is, the officiating in that game was clearly one sided. There were literally plays in which Wisconsin players took three and four steps and nothing was called. Several plays where they slid their pivot foot and no whistle. That went on the entire game. I won't even get into the fouls that were called or not called, the no call on the shot clock violation or the play where they scored after coming back in from out of bounds.
As for 2017, there is no need to try to explain the officiating of that game. It was downright criminal and painfully obvious to anyone watching. Oh well, it is what it is and I truly don't think it's ever gonna change. Especially while Cal is our coach.
I do believe that the lack of shooting more outside shots has been the detriment to some of our teams in recent years. I think that holds true for 2015, especially. We only attempted FIVE 3s in the game against Wisconsin, in which two of those attempts came in desperation mode with under a minute to go. So, basically, we attempted three 3s in the first 39 minutes of that game. This allowed Wisconsin to really pack their defense inside the 3 point arc. We needed to take more outside shots in order to spread the floor. For whatever reason, we didn't. IMO, that 2015 team was at its best when it was a more free flowing offense and Cal let our gunners shoot. Watch the UCLA and UNCheat games from that season for a good example of this. In the tournament, we got stuck in a grind it out, slow down game instead of trying to push tempo and firing from outside.
Really, though, we should have at least two more titles possibly three or four. At the end of the day, Higgins cost us at least two: 2015 and 2017. A case could also be made for 2011 as well.
The officiating in that Wisconsin game was extremely suspect. I believe a lot of our fans have only watched that game once or just don't really remember. I don't know, maybe they're just stubborn. Truth is, the officiating in that game was clearly one sided. There were literally plays in which Wisconsin players took three and four steps and nothing was called. Several plays where they slid their pivot foot and no whistle. That went on the entire game. I won't even get into the fouls that were called or not called, the no call on the shot clock violation or the play where they scored after coming back in from out of bounds.
As for 2017, there is no need to try to explain the officiating of that game. It was downright criminal and painfully obvious to anyone watching. Oh well, it is what it is and I truly don't think it's ever gonna change. Especially while Cal is our coach.
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Sadly The way the board is I need to say I’m not crushing cal and saying he’s become a bad coach... Just saying it’s starting to slip and we need to evolve. It’s just some here think cal is a being that should never be questioned as he is perfect.
The over reaction on this board since Duke loss is getting a little crazy.
Everyone will agree that we should shoot more three but 50 is just stupid.
However, shooting more isn't happening right now because our guards aren't making any...
let's compare Bahamas, where we scored on avg. 92.2 points per game @ 17 3PA.
PJ and Reid shot at similar fashion, in fact they probably are taking slightly more threes during regular season, and making it at higher clip. (3-7 for PJ, 2-5 for Reid versus 5-7 for PJ, 2-3 for Reid).
but the problem is... our guards. They aren't making them.
TH (who will be fine, btw.) shot 8-18 in four games at Bahamas. Regular season its 2-10.
KJ (who will also be fine) shot 4 - 9 is 1 - 6.
IQ (who will also be fine) shot 4 - 10 is 2 - 8.
QG (...he needs to work on his shots) shot 4 - 12 is 2 -7.
Now, once they make it at higher clip...you know higher than 20% range (they are all shooting worse than Briscoe...)...then naturally our offense will look a lot better. We have scored 84 - 71 - 96. This is with atrocious 3 point shooting by our guards.
However, even with all that said...they will shoot in range of 20-22 per game at most. If you want to debate about shooting at 24 - 26...i think that'll be interesting discussion. 50 or 40 is just stupid. The idea of creating space is so you have driving lane to take advantage of paint scoring (and also creating fouls)...what's the point of that if you don't take advantage of it...
I am pretty comfortable that it'll be much better later on. Most of our guards start out rough early in the year and pick it up by end of the year. (probably due to mostly being freshman or sophomores who needs to prove they can shoot).
Everyone will agree that we should shoot more three but 50 is just stupid.
However, shooting more isn't happening right now because our guards aren't making any...
let's compare Bahamas, where we scored on avg. 92.2 points per game @ 17 3PA.
PJ and Reid shot at similar fashion, in fact they probably are taking slightly more threes during regular season, and making it at higher clip. (3-7 for PJ, 2-5 for Reid versus 5-7 for PJ, 2-3 for Reid).
but the problem is... our guards. They aren't making them.
TH (who will be fine, btw.) shot 8-18 in four games at Bahamas. Regular season its 2-10.
KJ (who will also be fine) shot 4 - 9 is 1 - 6.
IQ (who will also be fine) shot 4 - 10 is 2 - 8.
QG (...he needs to work on his shots) shot 4 - 12 is 2 -7.
Now, once they make it at higher clip...you know higher than 20% range (they are all shooting worse than Briscoe...)...then naturally our offense will look a lot better. We have scored 84 - 71 - 96. This is with atrocious 3 point shooting by our guards.
However, even with all that said...they will shoot in range of 20-22 per game at most. If you want to debate about shooting at 24 - 26...i think that'll be interesting discussion. 50 or 40 is just stupid. The idea of creating space is so you have driving lane to take advantage of paint scoring (and also creating fouls)...what's the point of that if you don't take advantage of it...
I am pretty comfortable that it'll be much better later on. Most of our guards start out rough early in the year and pick it up by end of the year. (probably due to mostly being freshman or sophomores who needs to prove they can shoot).
Let’s leave the coaching to HOF Coach Cal.
Well, we better start making them then. Nobody is gonna gaurd a team that shoots the **** out of 3’s, and doesn’t make them consistently. They’ll pack the lanes per usual.
The main question is can we produce quality from quantity. No matter how many 3s we jack up the money is in how many we make. I mentioned 40% earlier in this thread. I'm not yet convinced that we couldn't achieve that percentage. 4 for 10, 6 for 15, 8 for 20, 10 for 25, 12 for 30 are all 40% clips that I think may be attainable as this team gets more comfortable.
I did. 118 pts. Did you learn nothing from that? No defense. Zero. none. nada. Zilch. We scored 84 pts. A modestly competent defense and this discussion doesn't happen. You are stuck in the past dude. This isn't the NBA where you win 122 - 118. If you post 84 pts on a team like Duke, you better damn well be in the mix. We were NOT. This is really, really simple.
Just a thought on that, 33% from 3 is equivalent to 50% from 2. So if you are a 40% shooting team from 2, then 27% is roughly equivalent from 3. 40% from 3 is about 60% from 2.
Jacking up threes to achieve a specific number of shots is a fools mission, but the percentage required to make it a viable option is not as high as you think. Coaches know this and will keep pushing threes when others think they should stop.
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Yes, nearly equivalent on all points. I sure don't advocate jacking up a particular number of 3s unless we know we can and do hit a decent percentage. If you can can them then you make the opposing team's defense legitimately tougher.
FWIW we typically under Cal shoot 3s around a 34% clip. That's equivalent to 51% on 2s which is surprisingly around what we typically average under Cal on 2s.
But anyways you are right. To say you need a specific number of threes is just silly.
There is no team even Villanova that during a game is sitting there thinking "well we only have 3 shots from 3 this half so we really need to start jacking them up".
Also, we don't know if increasing the number of 3s, our % would drop. The thing about 3s is.......most teams don't force them unless the clock is running down.
In other words maybe we are already taking just the right amount of 3 point shots.
True. And it’s a function of your 2 pt effectiveness
Yes, I’ve always thought Cal balanced it pretty well. And, as you point out there is a tactical advantage to dropping a few to spread the defense.
There is one team that seems determined to jack a specific quota. Duke. They live and die by it. It has lead to some unforgivable loses for them.
Very good post by the way.
With all the shooters this team has I wouldnt be opposed to 20-30 a game . Hell herro and Quick alone should shoot 5-8 each as both are great shooters.
The top part of your analysis is where Cal is starting to fall way behind. Improve that 34% to just 36%, and suddenly you're talking about the equivalent of 54% 2 point shooting. And there's a lot of evidence that it's easier to get that 34% to 36% (on increased attempts) than to get the 2 point % up from 51% to 54%.
I don't think you have to argue that UK needs to take 30-40 threes a game to argue that Cal's disdain of the 3 is hurting him. It's going to be hard to remain an elite team if you are continually in the bottom third of the country in 3 point attempts, and rarely better than middling in terms of %.
The UNC comparison is common, but they play at a much faster pace than Cal likes, so there are a lot more shots, and a lot more 3 point attempts. They averaged 23 attempts last year, and 20 in 16-17. None of Cal's UK teams has averaged 20 three attempts per game.
Last year's team was outscored by 276 points on 3's, and it's 30 through 3 games this year. You can't be the wishbone coach in the era of spread offenses and expect to stay at the top.
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I’m starting to wonder if he’s ever watched it, let alone play it. Just a really bizarre thread.
Some of our worst offensive possessions against Duke were ill advised threes. Just a whacky thread.