Zion issues....

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,760
85,449
113
Cal clearly prefers multiple PG's or combo guards and an elite guy inside. Cal wouldn't hesitate to play Hagan's, Maxey, and Quickley together on the floor. They're all 6'4 can handle the ball, pass, defend, and score in different ways. He wouldn't do that with any other position. Like I said, I don't believe he would sign 3 SF's in any class primarily because it would hamper his ability to sign multiple guards and a couple of bigs. He likes bringing in a class that is balanced.

He will bring in as many guards as he wants but he loves two to three big men, about five guards , and three wings.
 
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LadyCaytIL

Heisman
Oct 28, 2012
33,002
34,609
113
All I’ve heard was Montgomery didn’t get along with Zion ..... I think the idea floating around in this thread about the duke recruits having turmoil amongst each other is wishful thinking
 
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KyFaninNC

Heisman
Mar 14, 2005
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Those on here trying to downplay Zion and what he will do his 1 year in College will be in for a rough surprise IMO. The kid will be a stud next year for Duke.
Not questioning his skills. I am questioning the chemistry issues that may come from Zion's constant social media, and the darling of ESPN cameras, and others getting tired of it. If he appears to be a ball hog, not pass and help team mates, this could get real ugly for Duke. And I don't know who on that team is willing to play defense.
 

BlueBlood66_rivals34314

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Not questioning his skills. I am questioning the chemistry issues that may come from Zion's constant social media, and the darling of ESPN cameras, and others getting tired of it. If he appears to be a ball hog, not pass and help team mates, this could get real ugly for Duke. And I don't know who on that team is willing to play defense.

Jones and Barrett play D. Zion is an underrated and willing passer. Shooting will be the #1 make or break item for Duke next year. #2 is probably defense.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,261
41,749
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Guess I don't understand the "losses in HS" commentary which originated from Fraschilla. I mean Anthony Davis stayed at his woefully awful Charter School and they had a horrible record, but think he turned out to be great and a proven winner.

Reddish stayed at same school--year prior they won championships, so this year they don't without Bamba and a few others and he's to scrutinized? Weird analysis by Fran.

Duke has one of the best coaches ever to coach. They have a great group of talent coming in and they'll figure things out and be a contender. Same for UK. Now what level depends on how quickly but that's how life is when your roster is based on young players who have never played together in college.

Also believe Duke can take a foreign trip this Summer because they cancelled the one last year due to Coach K needing surgery. Can't say that trip will help UK but not Duke.
 

BlueBlood66_rivals34314

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Agreed. I guess my point was that even with solid shooting and defense that roster could still be a net negative compared to last year.

Yea, most likely. Very different teams. Duke was all bigs and guards last year with no real versatile wings. This year will be almost the opposite of that. Though it seems college basketball as a whole might be down from last year.
 
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FrankUnderwood

Heisman
May 26, 2017
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Jones and Barrett play D. Zion is an underrated and willing passer. Shooting will be the #1 make or break item for Duke next year. #2 is probably defense.


Plus y’all will reel in a sketchy/ questionably eliglbe 5 Star (Duval, Bagley ) by “guiding “ him to reclassify about 13 ish days before the season/ classes start.

Duke/ Nike giving Bagley a - literal- million dollar home for his family helps on the recruiting front as well.
Maybe Carey and family will be set up in a brand new house soon? ;)
 

BlueBlood66_rivals34314

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Plus y’all will reel in a sketchy/ questionably eliglbe 5 Star (Duval, Bagley ) by “guiding “ him to reclassify about 13 ish days before the season/ classes start.

Duke/ Nike giving Bagley a - literal- million dollar home for his family helps on the recruiting front as well.
Maybe Carey and family will be set up in a brand new house soon? ;)

I hope so, I keep buying Nike with that in mind.
 

G-PIP

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Mar 14, 2014
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My friends Duke is going to be good- but UK is going to be better. And like the last two years, K will struggle coaching a very young team. In fact, it will be his youngest ever. Still, they will rack up plenty of wins, but they won’t go anywhere in March. I said before the last two seasons that Duke wouldn’t make the final four in spite of all the talent they had. They won’t make the final four next year either. They won’t even make it out of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.
I feel similar to you. I think Duke's team this year is quite a bit better than what their team will be next season. I don't think the pieces fit well, and to me that's a big deal. Aside from the fact that their projected starting lineup includes 4 freshmen - which, in my opinion, puts your team behind the 8-ball to start the season - that starting lineup consists of overlapping duplicative parts.

Williamson is a college PF (regardless of what he or others want to call him), and I think he would function fine in that role alongside Barrett or Reddish, but not both. I really think Duke would be a better team if Barrett or Reddish came off the bench. Don't think that's going to happen; so, like you, I think Duke is going to struggle for consistency.
 

trav55_rivals214556

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Jun 25, 2005
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So what was the story?

I’ve been trying to find the answer to the same question and all I can come up with is gossip. Seems someone didn’t exactly get along with someone with no example or explanation. So I’d say it sounds like a bunch to do about nothing. People thinking Zion is unhappy with his choice because of chemistry sounds like a complete stretch with no proof.
 

RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,261
41,749
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Would you say K figured it out the past 2 seasons?

An Elite 8 loss in OT isn't bad. I'd argue their '17 team was far more flawed--no proven PG and that killed them. It happens. Their '18 season was like UK's 17 season in terms of losing in NCAA's. Tough loss but that has you in contention.

You will not win every year and some of the fans are losing their minds in criticizing coaches, players, and programs. It's really simple, not every guy you recruit works out, it's not easy to coach 1 and done guys who have agendas that don't always fit the team concept, and quicker you adjust who/how you recruit, the better. Doesn't mean not to go after top talent but sometimes top talent doesn't fit. Cal has consistently proven he can coach using this approach and is underrated as a Coach because so many system coaches think it's easy.

My only wish would be to see Cal empower them on the court more--think they'd play a lot better if given more freedom offensively. He empowers them every way but offensively.
 

brianpoe

Heisman
Mar 25, 2009
27,769
21,825
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An Elite 8 loss in OT isn't bad. I'd argue their '17 team was far more flawed--no proven PG and that killed them. It happens. Their '18 season was like UK's 17 season in terms of losing in NCAA's. Tough loss but that has you in contention.

You will not win every year and some of the fans are losing their minds in criticizing coaches, players, and programs. It's really simple, not every guy you recruit works out, it's not easy to coach 1 and done guys who have agendas that don't always fit the team concept, and quicker you adjust who/how you recruit, the better. Doesn't mean not to go after top talent but sometimes top talent doesn't fit. Cal has consistently proven he can coach using this approach and is underrated as a Coach because so many system coaches think it's easy.

My only wish would be to see Cal empower them on the court more--think they'd play a lot better if given more freedom offensively. He empowers them every way but offensively.



I don't disagree, but I still felt they were shaky throughout the season and never really gelled.

I'm not dumb enough to even begin to question K's coaching ability, but he never seemed comfortable either...

I do believe that having 3 ball dominant wings will be a different animal.

K's last succefull trio of freshmen included only one wing, a PG who distributed, and and a center who remained on the block. Not to mention a veteran wing and glue big man.

This group has a true frosh at PG and a much less talented center. No glue guy/mop up/dirty work big, nor a veteran presence on the wing.

Not doubting the talent level but interested in seeing the basketball chemistry and cohesiveness.
 
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Jkwo_rivals113955

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Apr 6, 2007
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This is exactly type of roster that K has flopped with in the past. No, it's not crazy to predict another flop. He's recently lost to a 15, a 14, and taken two different preseason chosen teams ("he finally has more talent than Cal - the sky is the limit") to early exits.

I wrongly bought it in '17. Didn't buy it in '18. Not buying it now.

I will genuinely be surprised if they make the final four. K is very good, but this is a "less than the sum of its parts" roster. Like an inverse Brad Stevens team.

No depth, no experience, 90% of the talent is between three guys all trying to do the same thing (slash from the wing).
 
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LineSkiCat14

Heisman
Aug 5, 2015
39,456
62,076
113
This is exactly type of roster that K has flopped with in the past. No, it's not crazy to predict another flop. He's recently lost to a 15, a 14, and taken two different preseason chosen teams ("he finally has more talent than Cal - the sky is the limit") to early exits.

I wrongly bought it in '17. Didn't buy it in '18. Not buying it now.

I will genuinely be surprised if they make the final four. K is very good, but this is a "less than the sum of its parts" roster. Like an inverse Brad Stevens team.

No depth, no experience, 90% of the talent is between three guys all trying to do the same thing (slash from the wing).

I have to admit, this was my progression, too. A little different, I thought '16 was very good but injured and I thought '17 was going to be a minimal loss monster that would walk to the title. Should have known better with 1AD recruiting.

I'm not worried about them in the slightest next year. During Cal's tenure we've had our worries about different teams.. UNC and Kansas we're at times, our biggest competition, then it was Duke in the last few years.. I'm starting to move away from them as any real threat.