Senior World Championships preview/thread

[mvattivo]

NLWC fan talking btw

Meaning what? As a PSU fan, do you think I feel the same sense of pride in seeing Dake and Snyder succeed as I do Levi, Zain, etc? I don't.

During world's, I'm rooting for every American. I'll be cheering on Spencer like I always do, unless it impacts PSU negatively. It's been a great day and a great tournament so far!

 

[Tanner Lafever]

Honestly, her style reminds me so much of Elor's, where she is so positionally sound and poised. It must be so frustrating for her opponents once they realize that they have nothing for it

I think there are a few notable technical differences in how they go about it - but your overall sentiment totally rings true.

If you’re going to break them down and score, you’d better hit something pretty special because they aren’t going to give you anything. And if you make a mistake they’re going to punish it.

 

[Tanner Lafever]

Meaning what? As a PSU fan, do you think I feel the same sense of pride in seeing Dake and Snyder succeed as I do Levi, Zain, etc? I don't.

During world's, I'm rooting for every American. I'll be cheering on Spencer like I always do, unless it impacts PSU negatively. It's been a great day and a great tournament so far!

Dake and Snyder never actually wrestled for Penn State.

Buchanan won an NCAA title in a Hawkeye singlet:

 

[Sir Pin Alot]

Bro shut up.

Not here to sling mud, just celebrate excellent wrestling.

 

[Stick Kitty]

I doubt it. World champion > rock star at Iowa or anywhere else for that matter. When you're winning worlds before you've wrestled in college, not to mention the likely additional future world/Olympic medals, I don't think they'll be much regret over which college he attended. Short of him going undefeated ala Cael, his college career is looking like it'll be a footnote vs a headline in the grand scheme of things.

I get the bigger picture of freestyle with what you are saying but a kid like Bo is missing out over the next 5 years of all the huge Dec, Jan. Feb meaningful $15k sell out atmosphere biggest duals of the year.

Its a god like feeling when you are competing versus PSU, ISU, OKst, OHst, and the snow is on the ground and you can feel the concrete shake in Carver or other large arenas. VT can never offer that out of the ACC.

You would have a hard time telling me Bo doesn't want that. I don't buy that and why he wont stay put at VT. Cant be a rockstar playing out HS gyms! He wont be content with just that. He will want something more than waiting until March to get that. Afterall patience isn't a strong suit otherwise he would still be a Hawkeye

 

[Stick Kitty]

I'm not going to write his story, but I hope you are wrong. Distribution of talent is in short supply and with his brother joining him soon, VT could rise to prominence while he's there. Its good for wrestling as a whole if he stays. I'm sure it won't be easy with the bags of cash/promises that will be coming his way with him being a world champion now.

The PSU fans will agree 100% with that but really adding another 4th place team isnt good for the bigger picture. Bringing PSU back to the pack team wise would be better for March. VT cant do taht. Bo being at a blueblood capable of making a bigger difference with his points and Melvins/Keegans would. So i kindly disagree and think Bo likely helps the sport more being in Iowa City, Stillwater, Lincoln or even Columbus.

The causal fan gives 2 cents about a 4 team battle for 4th.

 

[Mattski]

I get the bigger picture of freestyle with what you are saying but a kid like Bo is missing out over the next 5 years of all the huge Dec, Jan. Feb meaningful $15k sell out atmosphere biggest duals of the year.

Its a god like feeling when you are competing versus PSU, ISU, OKst, OHst, and the snow is on the ground and you can feel the concrete shake in Carver or other large arenas. VT can never offer that out of the ACC.

And you would have a hard time telling me Bo doesn't want that. I dont buy that and why he wont stay put at VT. Cant be a rockstar playing out HS gyms! He wont be content with just that. He will want something more than waiting until March to get that.

Fair points and I don't disagree with that part. But if he's winning titles in March and competing and winning on the world stage I'm not sure he'll have much for regrets.

 

[Scrubby]

"Sprinkling in an 8th" is of course ridiculous given it was his first year and half his lineup was stopped from wrestling. The general point stands though. I think the times have moved beyond the Brands. It's different now, and I don't know that they are equipped for this current battlefield.

Brands had a great run, ran into an unforeseen monster w/ Cael going to Penn State, and then the ground dramatically shifted under him/them in a way they don't appear to have been able to adapt to.

He also missed out on what would have likely been another team title the year Covid hit unfortunately. I agree with your assessment on brands in general though.

 

[Mattski]

Not sure that I understand the “Tom is a victim to the Iowa compliance department” narrative. From my understanding, it wasn’t necessarily the Iowa Compliance Dept ruling that caused Bo to flee. It was Tom losing his s*** on Bo’s mom. Tom is the CEO of the program and should be able to navigate and peacefully handle disagreements when they arise. I don’t think Tom was the victim.

Exactly. For most people there's a whole lot of options in between breaking the "rule"/going around compliance, and blowing up on the parents to the point the relationship is wrecked.

 

[Crablegs1]

Tom has only finished out of trophy range twice? Still not good enough but with 4 titles maybe as a poverty ISU fan you should stfu?

Hey, I’m not the one who said Iowa’s standard is better than 4th. It’s very clearly 4th in recent years and this year too.

 

[Stick Kitty]

Exactly. For most people there's a whole lot of options in between breaking the "rule"/going around compliance, and blowing up on the parents to the point the relationship is wrecked.

I hope when Tom's days are done and if Bob is also done writing checks, that he comes on here and sets the record straight or tells us how things played out from his perspective. Good or Bad or Ugly

Much like when Jay took the time after his career was over to shine light on VT / AD Jim Weaver transfer debacle. What's was promised, not written down and how it played out. Jay's was very well spoken and thought out.

Bob deserves the right to ride of into the sunset and has certainly earned it. Just hope he throws some of us "casuals" a bone as he sees fit.

 

[masterhawk74]

Really? When does that happen? Brands has gotten that 4th place trophy 6 times in his 20 years at Iowa. Sprinkle in a 5th and an 8th. The last 3 years have average placement of 4.33. If getting 4th isn’t good enough for Iowa standards, why is he still the coach? Seems like that is the exact Iowa standard currently.

Now do ISU's so we know their current standard, you know, just for the sake of analytics.

 

[Trakker]

Meaning what? As a PSU fan, do you think I feel the same sense of pride in seeing Dake and Snyder succeed as I do Levi, Zain, etc? I don't.

During world's, I'm rooting for every American. I'll be cheering on Spencer like I always do, unless it impacts PSU negatively. It's been a great day and a great tournament so far!

How do you feel about Messenbrink?

 

[Crablegs1]

Now do ISU's so we know their current standard, you know, just for the sake of analytics.

Will that make you feel better? ISU is clearly not Iowa. Not sure what that has to do with Iowa’s standards. If beating ISU is Iowa’s standards they’ve lost that at nationals and in a dual in the last few years.

 

[Hawx224]

Not sure that I understand the “Tom is a victim to the Iowa compliance department” narrative. From my understanding, it wasn’t necessarily the Iowa Compliance Dept ruling that caused Bo to flee. It was Tom losing his s*** on Bo’s mom. Tom is the CEO of the program and should be able to navigate and peacefully handle disagreements when they arise. I don’t think Tom was the victim.

That’s not what happened. I get the frustration with Brands and it’s unfortunate how the Bo situation played out, but Tom did not “lose his **** on Bo’s mom” and he was in the right.

 

[Gusaford1]

Just because it's not gonna be a rule much longer that doesn't mean anything . If your boss told you that you couldn't do something because it was against the rules and you did it anyway and broke a rule your probably fired. That's what happens in the real world .

Maybe. But isn't the question whether a coach with better people skills might have managed the situation without everyone going to Defcon 5? Too many instances of my way or the highway over the past 15 years. I'll always have an abiding belief that a coach with a little more finesse might have threaded the needle without losing the recruit.

 

[UNIHawk]

Maybe. But isn't the question whether a coach with better people skills might have managed the situation without everyone going to Defcon 5? Too many instances of my way or the highway over the past 15 years. I'll always have an abiding belief that a coach with a little more finesse might have threaded the needle without losing the recruit.

DEFCON 1, Posture 7

 

[IRON HAWK]

He is a world champion. What makes you think he’d be any better than that at Iowa?

He’s also already the most popular athlete in the sport. Didn’t need Iowa’s fan base to get him there. VT will likely beat Iowa this year at nationals, and that will only make them a more attractive place to be. The trajectories of the two programs couldn’t be any more different.

IOWA is the EPICENTER of USA Wrestling PERIOD!!! The kid should have been a HAWK and it would have not only helped "us" , it would also help USA wrestling due to the amount of EXTRA attention it would bring to the sport!!!

So break rules and get fired got it . Here come the s

PLEASE GUY!!!! Read and UNDERSTAND bellow!!!! This is NOT giving the kid PEDs, or offering HOs etc..... This is/was some BS rule and as far as I can tell. No one else was following at all!!! It would also seem very easy to skate around it by having BO there to do clinics or what not....

So the rule that's not a rule anymore that Oklahoma State will never retroactively be punished for or anyone lmao. I believe Brands needed better connections with the NCAA to know that was in the works and shortly going bye bye- but Brands and building relationships is a whole different argument.

Back to my point. One month of practice time caused all parties to burn down the plan? Couldn't overcome that and find any common ground? Its pretty petty looking back big picture wise, do you agree?

YES

He should have never even asked Beth. How would she know RTC practice stipulations. If it did come to fruition he could have pleaded ignorant to the rule. Looking back that would have 100% worked out to this day.

Heck Kirk Ferentz has pleaded ignorant a few times and received probation. Even ISU wrestling got a nothing burger on their recent stuff. A program just moves on. Stop treating it like its was a death penalty type infraction.

Its the cost of doing business. But again Corby- please let me know when Oklahoma State is going to get their punishment for breaking that rule and how severe would it even be?

NCAA has way too many things to worry about to even notice NCAA Wrestling.

TY

Just because it's not gonna be a rule much longer that doesn't mean anything . If your boss told you that you couldn't do something because it was against the rules and you did it anyway and broke a rule your probably fired. That's what happens in the real world .

I would just love to hear what you do with yo life? I mean, I am not sure how many "rules" there are in it that apparently you don't break? I assume you always drive the speed limit, never roll though a stop sign etc.... You are always on time for work, never leave just a little early, don't ever "call in sick" when "maybe" you should have been at work?

You must always pay every tax dollar even if there is that "gray " area where you accountant says, " you might qualify for this you know?" Hmmm

I guess what I am saying is. YOU are the guy who does NOT go back up to the soda machine and add a little more!?!?!? GOT IT LOL!!!!

Just to be absolutely clear here!!! I am NOT saying go out and be a cheat, just saying. This was a situation that needed 100% attention and focus to figure out what to do to SOLVE it!!!

 

[RockySmith]

IOWA is the EPICENTER of USA Wrestling PERIOD!!! The kid should have been a HAWK and it would have not only helped "us" , it would also help USA wrestling due to the amount of EXTRA attention it would bring to the sport!!!

PLEASE GUY!!!! Read and UNDERSTAND bellow!!!! This is NOT giving the kid PEDs, or offering HOs etc..... This is/was some BS rule and as far as I can tell. No one else was following at all!!! It would also seem very easy to skate around it by having BO there to do clinics or what not....

YES

TY

I would just love to hear what you do with yo life? I mean, I am not sure how many "rules" there are in it that apparently you don't break? I assume you always drive the speed limit, never roll though a stop sign etc.... You are always on time for work, never leave just a little early, don't ever "call in sick" when "maybe" you should have been at work?

You must always pay every tax dollar even if there is that "gray " area where you accountant says, " you might qualify for this you know?" Hmmm

I guess what I am saying is. YOU are the guy who does NOT go back up to the soda machine and add a little more!?!?!? GOT IT LOL!!!!

Just to be absolutely clear here!!! I am NOT saying go out and be a cheat, just saying. This was a situation that needed 100% attention and focus to figure out what to do to SOLVE it!!!

Missed you, IRON.

 

[Gusaford1]

DEFCON 1, Posture 7

I've been getting Defcon 1 and Defcon 5 mixed up my whole life!

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Maybe. But isn't the question whether a coach with better people skills might have managed the situation without everyone going to Defcon 5? Too many instances of my way or the highway over the past 15 years. I'll always have an abiding belief that a coach with a little more finesse might have threaded the needle without losing the recruit.

No dog in the fight, but can you list all the “my way or the highway” instances so we can all determine who was in the wrong?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

The PSU fans will agree 100% with that but really adding another 4th place team isnt good for the bigger picture. Bringing PSU back to the pack team wise would be better for March. VT cant do taht. Bo being at a blueblood capable of making a bigger difference with his points and Melvins/Keegans would. So i kindly disagree and think Bo likely helps the sport more being in Iowa City, Stillwater, Lincoln or even Columbus.

The causal fan gives 2 cents about a 4 team battle for 4th.

I disagree. As things stand Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State are all in a dead heat with Virginia Tech for third. Intermat has Bassett fifth and Bailey seventh. If Bassett were to win for VT it would have virtually the same impact on the team score as if he won for Iowa. Having another team in the running is good for the sport. And the reality is that VT has built the equal of all but two of the bluebloods.

 

[UNIHawk]

I've been getting Defcon 1 and Defcon 5 mixed up my whole life!

I was an ICBM guy in the mid 80's; I better remember that.

 

[dtripp26]

I was an ICBM guy in the mid 80's; I better remember that.

 

[HawkeyeInOlathe]

Bo down 12-3 to the Russian with the Russian almost getting a pushout but coming back to win is one the better comebacks (considering the competition) that I’ve seen in freestyle.

Both he and Snyder in the finals as the favorites.Couldnt have asked for a better start.

Yes great comeback. Screw him

 

[HawkeyeInOlathe]

No **** I’m getting so sick of this streaming service that we pay for to watch a few premiere events a year and it never freaking works. Everybody needs to start emailing and asking for discounts as I have just done. [email protected]

They’re refunding 20% of my annual fee. Just wanna let you all know if you’ve never asked for a credit I think we’re all justified.

Congrats to Bo. World champion before his first collegiate wrestling match. Imagine what he could have done for this program…

eff him!!

 

[VonEhwegen]

I'm not going to write his story, but I hope you are wrong. Distribution of talent is in short supply and with his brother joining him soon, VT could rise to prominence while he's there. Its good for wrestling as a whole if he stays. I'm sure it won't be easy with the bags of cash/promises that will be coming his way with him being a world champion now.

Just being a realist, I agree it's good to spread out the talent and hope the 5 for 5 does it. But unfortunately, kids will still take the money to sit on the bench and maybe see the mat one time in 5 years.

 

[mvattivo]

How do you feel about Messenbrink?

Well, obviously, I was taking a gentle swipe at you guys with my comment about Buchanan being the pride of Wyoming. I don't think you can compare him to Mesenbrink. He wrestled 2 matches at Cal Baptist. Buchanan wrestled five full seasons elsewhere. The best comparison is Max Dean. I like Max Dean and was very happy to see him win a national championship at PSU. I don't see him in the same light as the guys who were at PSU for their entire careers or multiple seasons.

 

[Corby2]

IOWA is the EPICENTER of USA Wrestling PERIOD!!! The kid should have been a HAWK and it would have not only helped "us" , it would also help USA wrestling due to the amount of EXTRA attention it would bring to the sport!!!

PLEASE GUY!!!! Read and UNDERSTAND bellow!!!! This is NOT giving the kid PEDs, or offering HOs etc..... This is/was some BS rule and as far as I can tell. No one else was following at all!!! It would also seem very easy to skate around it by having BO there to do clinics or what not....

YES

TY

I would just love to hear what you do with yo life? I mean, I am not sure how many "rules" there are in it that apparently you don't break? I assume you always drive the speed limit, never roll though a stop sign etc.... You are always on time for work, never leave just a little early, don't ever "call in sick" when "maybe" you should have been at work?

You must always pay every tax dollar even if there is that "gray " area where you accountant says, " you might qualify for this you know?" Hmmm

I guess what I am saying is. YOU are the guy who does NOT go back up to the soda machine and add a little more!?!?!? GOT IT LOL!!!!

Just to be absolutely clear here!!! I am NOT saying go out and be a cheat, just saying. This was a situation that needed 100% attention and focus to figure out what to do to SOLVE it!!!

It was a rule and the university of Iowa wasn't gonna break it. Love how all keyboard warriors who know nothing about what happened seem to think they do. I hope Bo wins 5 NCAA titles regardless where he wrestles. I will now sit back and read all the expert opinions on the situation

 

[Mattski]

That’s not what happened. I get the frustration with Brands and it’s unfortunate how the Bo situation played out, but Tom did not “lose his **** on Bo’s mom” and he was in the right.

And you know this how exactly? As with most situations like this there's "our side", "their side" and what really happened. I don't doubt this one is any different. What we know is whatever occurred cost the program their best prospect since Spencer... and based on today's results you could argue best prospect ever.