Camp Point proposal to undo playoff expansion

[sporthog_9er]

Proposal Submitted To Undo IHSA Playoff Football Expansion

A by-law amendment proposal has been submitted that aims to undo the expanded IHSA football playoffs and return the postseason to its previous format after just

wrmj.com

Noted it is the only proposal submitted to do this. Rest of proposals should be online in near future.

 

[OnlyTheBest]

Proposal Submitted To Undo IHSA Playoff Football Expansion

A by-law amendment proposal has been submitted that aims to undo the expanded IHSA football playoffs and return the postseason to its previous format after just

wrmj.com

Noted it is the only proposal submitted to do this. Rest of proposals should be online in near future.

Good now tell him to not be scared to seed 1-32 and get rid of the north/south split.

 

[definitely an NFL coach]

somebody call the wahmbulance for the guys who are so mad about a play in game

 

[Wags14]

But he wants a week zero game

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Hmm... from Dixon, who plays in a conference that is rather, how you say... top-heavy. Go figure seems in order...
I guess he'd rather lose in the 2nd round to Calhoun or Tuscola this year?

Dixon's Panthers have comfortably made the playoffs every year since he arrived in 2011 outside 2015 they limped in 5-4

They've lost twice since he arrived in the 1st round...
2015 Tuscola 49-7
2016 Carrollton 46-0

I guess he forgot about his first 6 years when CPC failed to beat anyone in the 1st round by more than 13... and lost twice in that span as noted just above.

Maybe he just wants less WIVC teams in the playoffs?

 

[jha618]

But he wants a week zero game

I believe the proposal is for W0 scrimmages

 

[Wags14]

I believe the proposal is for W0 scrimmages

Yeah, sorry, that is what i meant

 

[good_nocall]

I love it. The coach of a bunch of farm boys looking to undo something that was proposed by ... a coach of a bunch of farm boys.

Or maybe county fairs are only in early August in that part of the state; what do I know?

Sure would be nice if our society could actually let something new run for a full cycle before we have it cancelled.

 

[1A Football Guy]

I believe with in this proposal for the seeding process is some kind of ratings system. RPI, Freemen, HSRatings etc. that’s just the rumor I’ve heard.

 

[jha618]

I believe with in this proposal for the seeding process is some kind of ratings system. RPI, Freemen, HSRatings etc. that’s just the rumor I’ve heard.

I don't believe thats a rumor. It was quoted as a goal in the article.

 

[1A Football Guy]

I don't believe thats a rumor. It was quoted as a goal in the article.

Was it. I read over it (skimmed) I didnt see it mentioned. But I could of missed if so my apologies

this was all i saw not that it was explicitly saying there would be an RPI system in this proposal. “Dixon indicated he believes there could be a better way to seed teams for the playoff field if an RPI system were used.”

 

[Colin2299]

I think Coach Dixon is a very high character coach who runs an outstanding program and has built a tremendous championship culture.

If you actually listen to his interview, his reasoning is for kids to have their summers and be kids. With the games starting earlier that means practices start earlier and providing less summer for kids to be kids. I’m two years practice will be starting 8/1.

 

[UIUC 17]

I think Coach Dixon is a very high character coach who runs an outstanding program and has built a tremendous championship culture.

If you actually listen to his interview, his reasoning is for kids to have their summers and be kids. With the games starting earlier that means practices start earlier and providing less summer for kids to be kids. I’m two years practice will be starting 8/1.

I’m sure more players are appreciative of experiencing playoff football. Schools should let their players decide what their vote should be if it comes down to it. Seems arrogant to propose something that takes away from the players’ experience

 

[crusader_of_90]

I’m sure more players are appreciative of experiencing playoff football. Schools should let their players decide what their vote should be if it comes down to it. Seems arrogant to propose something that takes away from the players’ experience

Not naming names, but there are schools in my area that had no chance of winning and just wanted to be done. Move on to basketball, back to work, or just jacking around.

 

[mc140]

I think the current system stays at least one more year. Only modification will be to start on Monday instead of Wednesday is my prediction.

 

[McCaravan]

IHSA got an easy money grab with an extra weeks playoff gate, top teams got a week to lick their wounds and heal up. I think it stays. I didn't like it because I don't think 3-6 teams should be in the playoffs and I fear that a under .500 CCL team will advance far and to CCL haters will get another round in the chamber but really there was no real harm done by doing this. As a fan who likes it when their team gets a bye, especially in High School? Not many, been a long 2 weeks

 

[K58W]

I can understand Dixon’s issues.

He also knows IHSA is one step at a time.

This new playoff is one step farther from full state seeding and a ranking system for playoffs.

Give him props for stepping up that this isn’t what the playoffs needed and to go back before it becomes the normal.

 

[Cyclone630]

The desire to add a rating system like RPI for seeding and return to the previous qualification is nothing more than a desire to create a system which make it easier to keep the same schools at the top. That's why you see the "participation trophy" claims, hand wringing from coaches like Dixon about the county fair, or BS claims that teams didn't want to play when trying to argue against the expansion.

Nobody gets a trophy for making the playoffs. They do get at least an extra week of practice, expose underclassmen to the varsity coaches and practices, help draw some additional athletes from the hallways to the sport, give school spirit a boost, and as a private school coach flat out admitted to me, makes it harder for the private schools to recruit. All things which help lift programs up.

 

[4Afan]

The desire to add a rating system like RPI for seeding and return to the previous qualification is nothing more than a desire to create a system which make it easier to keep the same schools at the top. That's why you see the "participation trophy" claims, hand wringing from coaches like Dixon about the county fair, or BS claims that teams didn't want to play when trying to argue against the expansion.

Nobody gets a trophy for making the playoffs. They do get at least an extra week of practice, expose underclassmen to the varsity coaches and practices, help draw some additional athletes from the hallways to the sport, give school spirit a boost, and as a private school coach flat out admitted to me, makes it harder for the private schools to recruit. All things which help lift programs up.

All the reasons you listed for the new playoff format being a good thing are just a cop out and assumptions. How do you know the kids on a 3-6 or 2-7 team even want an extra week of practice only to get their doors blown off in the majority of cases? Many kids just want to be done or move on to basketball or wrestling. How does having bad teams make the playoffs draw more athletes to football? School spirit? I'm guessing the attendance at a large number of last weeks games would confirm the opposite.

 

[1A Football Guy]

Hmm... from Dixon, who plays in a conference that is rather, how you say... top-heavy. Go figure seems in order...
I guess he'd rather lose in the 2nd round to Calhoun or Tuscola this year?

Dixon's Panthers have comfortably made the playoffs every year since he arrived in 2011 outside 2015 they limped in 5-4

They've lost twice since he arrived in the 1st round...
2015 Tuscola 49-7
2016 Carrollton 46-0

I guess he forgot about his first 6 years when CPC failed to beat anyone in the 1st round by more than 13... and lost twice in that span as noted just above.

Maybe he just wants less WIVC teams in the playoffs?

I mean the WIVC has been getting 5-6 teams in every year lol. I doubt that’s his concerns especially when usually besides 1 mid pack team each year it’s 2-3 teams 1 strong mid pack team. Then the rest. This is far fetched to say he wants less WIVC teams lol

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

I mean the WIVC has been getting 5-6 teams in every year lol. I doubt that’s his concerns especially when usually besides 1 mid pack team each year it’s 2-3 teams 1 strong mid pack team. Then the rest. This is far fetched to say he wants less WIVC teams lol

It was said tongue in cheek to begin with... Next time I'll include more "lol" for you to make it obvious.

But I mean if we want to seriously talk about it... The WIVC combined gets 5 or 6, sure... but in the eyes of the IHSA, the north and south are separate entities. The north is mediocre or worse many years outside CPC/BC... We'll give Beardstown the nod for their occasional good regular season followed by early round exit. The north would have had 2 teams in this year under the old format. Under this year's format, the north got 5 teams in. So it shouldn't be skipped that Dixon's team sits on the easier side of the mega-conference setup. And, it's also not that far of a stretch, and definitely not far fetched, to say he's eliminating WIVC teams from his own conference with his new proposal.

Alas (sigh), here we are, again, talking about proposals from programs in 3A or below... wanting to drive the bus for everyone...

 

[1A Football Guy]

It was said tongue in cheek to begin with... Next time I'll include more "lol" for you to make it obvious.

But I mean if we want to seriously talk about it... The WIVC combined gets 5 or 6, sure... but in the eyes of the IHSA, the north and south are separate entities. The north is mediocre or worse many years outside CPC/BC... We'll give Beardstown the nod for their occasional good regular season followed by early round exit. The north would have had 2 teams in this year under the old format. Under this year's format, the north got 5 teams in. So it shouldn't be skipped that Dixon's team sits on the easier side of the mega-conference setup. And, it's also not that far of a stretch, and definitely not far fetched, to say he's eliminating WIVC teams from his own conference with his new proposal.

Alas (sigh), here we are, again, talking about proposals from programs in 3A or below... wanting to drive the bus for everyone...

I mean I want the best teams in. If its less teams its less teams. But seed properly

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

I mean I want the best teams in. If its less teams its less teams. But seed properly

I would agree... mostly with the last part... seeding. Helps to remember, district proposal would have made this the norm also... playing less competitive "meaningful" games. so we're kind of swerving the same direction now with the past two playoff format change pushes... one of which saw the light of day... this year's brackets. This message board would make anyone believe more competitive postseason football is the majority cry from the public at large... but the schools voted this new format in... so clearly we're wrong... or they all didn't read the future as well as Edgy's board does...

 

[UIUC 17]

All the reasons you listed for the new playoff format being a good thing are just a cop out and assumptions. How do you know the kids on a 3-6 or 2-7 team even want an extra week of practice only to get their doors blown off in the majority of cases? Many kids just want to be done or move on to basketball or wrestling. How does having bad teams make the playoffs draw more athletes to football? School spirit? I'm guessing the attendance at a large number of last weeks games would confirm the opposite.

 

[4Afan]

You tell that to a teenager who only plays football to stay in shape to fill the time before basketball or wrestling starts.

 

[UIUC 17]

You tell that to a teenager who only plays football to stay in shape to fill the time before basketball or wrestling starts.

That’s…something. So if you know it’s unlikely you can win then why bother trying?

 

[4Afan]

That’s…something. So if you know it’s unlikely you can win then why bother trying?

Not say that at all, but believe it or not, HS football is not the be all, end all experience for a good number of kids. If a team is 2-7 or 3-6 and there are kids that play winter sports there's going to be plenty of them that would rather start those sports versus playing football one more week only to get blown out.

 

[SouthofI80Fan]

Alas (sigh), here we are, again, talking about proposals from programs in 3A or below... wanting to drive the bus for everyone...

Yep. How about we wait until after the playoffs are completed and let the coaches of those teams that lost in the opening round decide if it was worth.

From what I have gathered, some schools really enjoyed getting the extra week. Especially those programs whom are usually right on the cusp of the playoffs year in and year out. So far, the only complaining I have heard is from teams who had a bye weeks, which is not a good gauge on if this was/will be successful or not.

Teams can opt out if they really don't want a game and only 1 team did that this season.

 

[BobbyBoucher9]

Go back to how it was before this year.

Bottom line no matter how you do things it is never ever going to be a perfect system. Not sure how some of the 3-6/4-5 Coaches in most recent system would of handled or lasted in the 6-3 or better to qualify for the playoffs.

Is the seeding system perfect absolutely not but its a lot better than the 80s and early 90s where 9-0 were facing 9-0s in the first round.

There was always be conferences and part of the state that are better and more competitive than others.

We need to let kids be kids. Football creeping closer and closer to begin of August, IHSA baseball running into June. Throw in travel ball and no wonder kids are getting burnt out with things.

FWIW I think the data in regards to upsets in the 1st round is a little skewed. How many Upset wins were by a CCL school which I think we all anticipated happening with expanded playoffs. How many upsets were the result of beating a CPL school. We already know their track record. 4-5 over a 5-4 not really an upset in my my book. Its a team that was right on the edge of a playoff berth.

 

[oldfan123]

I love the new system

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Go back to how it was before this year.

Bottom line no matter how you do things it is never ever going to be a perfect system. Not sure how some of the 3-6/4-5 Coaches in most recent system would of handled or lasted in the 6-3 or better to qualify for the playoffs.

Is the seeding system perfect absolutely not but its a lot better than the 80s and early 90s where 9-0 were facing 9-0s in the first round.

There was always be conferences and part of the state that are better and more competitive than others.

We need to let kids be kids. Football creeping closer and closer to begin of August, IHSA baseball running into June. Throw in travel ball and no wonder kids are getting burnt out with things.

FWIW I think the data in regards to upsets in the 1st round is a little skewed. How many Upset wins were by a CCL school which I think we all anticipated happening with expanded playoffs. How many upsets were the result of beating a CPL school. We already know their track record. 4-5 over a 5-4 not really an upset in my my book. Its a team that was right on the edge of a playoff berth.

I like 85% of what you said... but kids, imo, aren't getting burnt out because HS seasons are a little longer. Pay to play at youth level (ie clubs over community leagues), some sports expecting year round participation (ie AAU basketball circuit March to July then tournaments outside of that in the form of showcases and fall leagues and baseball being a two season sport for many kids these days, Spring/Fall), and the higher expectations of parents across the board are what's driving kids away from sports.

Just my few extra cents on that section of your comment. I do agree we need to let kids be kids... but HS athletics is accessible to almost all... whereas the direction of youth sports as a whole is largely not geared towards the average kid. Soccer, baseball, softball, volleyball, basketball are all largely driven by the pay-to-play models now. That makes local leagues less populated, for one, so they fold or don't matter to anyone.

My biggest thing is paying thousands and thousands of dollars for youth athletics for a 6% to 7% shot at a scholarship for collegiate athletics is insane already. It's estimated that nearly 70% of HS musicians receive scholarships for college... Imo, we're pushing kids into competitive sports over other areas that offer higher rates of return for the same goal. Starting your kid in piano at 5 instead of soccer almost all but guarantees them a higher opportunity to earn college scholarships if that's the goal. Then there's the parental aspect of this... which is... too many parents think paying more for their kids will result in better outcomes AND far too many parents don't want to admit their kid just isn't in the 1% in the world that will go pro at something athletic.

Idk... just wild times, like they have been is all lol Sorry to jump way off-topic there...

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

I love the new system

Yeah I think anyone could have guessed the CCL, suburban Catholic, top public conference folks would be pretty happy getting more schools in. All we hear is how they beat each other up and get left out... Happy for you big dog.

 

[jha618]

Imo, we're pushing kids into competitive sports over other areas that offer higher rates of return for the same goal. Starting your kid in piano at 5 instead of soccer almost all but guarantees them a higher opportunity to earn college scholarships if that's the goal. ...

What about if the kid just loves baseball or basketball...and not that interested in piano. I dont see how pushing them into piano because the parents see a better ROI from their kid is any better than the parent pushing them into a sport because they are still living out their failed childhood sports aspirations.

 

[Cyclone630]

All the reasons you listed for the new playoff format being a good thing are just a cop out and assumptions. How do you know the kids on a 3-6 or 2-7 team even want an extra week of practice only to get their doors blown off in the majority of cases? Many kids just want to be done or move on to basketball or wrestling. How does having bad teams make the playoffs draw more athletes to football? School spirit? I'm guessing the attendance at a large number of last weeks games would confirm the opposite.

I know enough athletes and coaches that were on teams that made the playoffs this year that wouldn't have in previous years, and none of them feel the way you do. Could you find some that feel the way you do, probably, but nowhere near as many as you dream about.

And how does it draw more athletes to the sport? Participation in a sport increases if the school's team improves. Heck, it's the main reason why successful private schools can actually recruit. Nobody is going to BR or MC if they don't have good football teams.

 

[4Afan]

I know enough athletes and coaches that were on teams that made the playoffs this year that wouldn't have in previous years, and none of them feel the way you do. Could you find some that feel the way you do, probably, but nowhere near as many as you dream about.

And how does it draw more athletes to the sport? Participation in a sport increases if the school's team improves. Heck, it's the main reason why successful private schools can actually recruit. Nobody is going to BR or MC if they don't have good football teams.

2-7 and 3-6 teams aren't what I would consider improving just because the new system allows them into the playoffs

 

[UIUC 17]

Not say that at all, but believe it or not, HS football is not the be all, end all experience for a good number of kids. If a team is 2-7 or 3-6 and there are kids that play winter sports there's going to be plenty of them that would rather start those sports versus playing football one more week only to get blown out.

Great message to send to teenagers, you can’t win so you shouldn’t even try

 

[4Afan]

Yep, still notnsa

Great message to send to teenagers, you can’t win so you shouldn’t even try

Yep, still not saying that at all, but interpret as you wish.

 

[UIUC 17]

Yep, still not saying that at all, but interpret as you wish.

I’m just copying and pasting replies you’ve made in other threads discussing something similar. Hopefully you’ll remember the thoughts/sentiments you’re now sharing in response to yourself in future threads. I’d call this a successful experiment

 

[4Afan]

I’m just copying and pasting replies you’ve made in other threads discussing something similar. Hopefully you’ll remember the thoughts/sentiments you’re now sharing in response to yourself in future threads. I’d call this a successful experiment

Different thought process entirely. Not saying they shouldn't try or just give up during an opening round game.

I'm talking about the mentality of teenagers so no one is teaching them any lesson.

If you were to conduct an anonymous poll of all the players from 2-7 and 3-6 teams and ask if they'd rather have one more football game with their buddies, start their winter sport, go back to work/get a job, or just enjoy being able to go home directly after school I thin that you would he surprised how many would vote against an opening round football game.

Copying and pasting doesn't have much of an effect without context.

 

[CCHS-Fan]

4Afan always has the winning opinion. Just accept it and move on. You’re wasting calories. His data rules. 100%. Always.