The Official Unbiased Top 10 end of regular season

[80sRambler]

I think this guy is having a conversation with himself.

Literally

 

[4Afan]

It’s a fair point. Programs that play insane schedules and consistently win.

everyone dogging on LA for that win against IC

that was the epitome of ELITE. Up against *ELITE* talent that torched you for a half. Shut them down in the second. And do that kinda thing year in year out. Just as MC does.

Part of your arguement is consistency, yet you mention Loyola. They were 4-5 last year. One of the years Loyola won 8A ESL embarrassed them in the regular season. Loyola and ESL both have 3 titles in the last 6 years, the only difference is only ESL has been to 6 straight title games. How many other schools have that kind of consistency.

You want consistency, ESL is one of maybe 4-5 schools in the state that has at least 1 title in every decade the IHSA has existed. You can't talk about elite programs and then only use a 5-10 year window as a sample size.

It's crazy that in your eyes the state of illinois only has 2 elite programs.

 

[80sRambler]

Make it stop!

 

[nonA91745]

I think this guy is having a conversation with himself.

Probably tbh.
You don’t see what many of us do? Cary and Fenwick. How in the hell? Can you answer me that?

 

[nonA91745]

ESL is one of the most consistently successful program in the history of the state. We in the first championships in state history and play in the championship last year..... consistently!

Yeah I knew that was coming.
See my comment ESL one of maybe 3 (2?) that can go up against natl powerhouses and be respectable at least.

then add Illinois 6a to that thought.
Then add in 3 finals they lost to Cary grove twice and Fenwick once. Both very very good programs to be sure. But….

 

[nonA91745]

Make it stop!

Once someone explains to me how in the hell ESL can be labeled as elite in the last five years.

Until then the punishment will continue!!!

 

[4Afan]

Probably tbh.
You don’t see what many of us do? Cary and Fenwick. How in the hell? Can you answer me that?

Simple, it's HS football and upsets happen. Did you watch any of those games? You know how they say it's going to take a perfect game to beat a certain team? That's what happened against CG, they played flawless football, it happens, you tip your cap to them. Fenwick definitely played better and deserved to win, but that was just a weird game with the weather and having to be moved and rescheduled.

There's been over 50 years of football playoffs, Loyola only has 6 titles. What happened all those other years if their so elite?

Also have to remember, based on enrollment ESL is only a 5A school. Name another school that voluntarily plays up every year.

 

[ODERTY1]

Yeah I knew that was coming.
See my comment ESL one of maybe 3 (2?) that can go up against natl powerhouses and be respectable at least.

then add Illinois 6a to that thought.
Then add in 3 finals they lost to Cary grove twice and Fenwick once. Both very very good programs to be sure. But….

So the 2 programs you called elite have lost to team that the should have beat right? Based your point they should be 99% win rate against other great programs correct?

 

[nonA91745]

Simple, it's HS football and upsets happen. Did you watch any of those games? You know how they say it's going to take a perfect game to beat a certain team? That's what happened against CG, they played flawless football, it happens, you tip your cap to them. Fenwick definitely played better and deserved to win, but that was just a weird game with the weather and having to be moved and rescheduled.

There's been over 50 years of football playoffs, Loyola only has 6 titles. What happened all those other years if their so elite?

Also have to remember, based on enrollment ESL is only a 5A school. Name another school that voluntarily plays up every year.

For sure and thankfully so! That Fenwick game was so fun bc it was so impossible for them to do that.

Georgia and Alabama (Saban yrs) that stuff is rare. For ESL it’s too commonplace ONLY bc of the absolute studs they have on that team *consistently*

 

[nonA91745]

So the 2 programs you called elite have lost to team that the should have beat right? Based your point they should be 99% win rate against other great programs correct?

No one wins 99% of the time. That would require a new label.
Last five years is ESL elite program or one that has consistently been a disappointment per what was expected of them given insane levels of talent.

it’s a really simple thesis and question.

 

[nonA91745]

And for me my perception of Loyola is they don’t recruit like MC. They don’t have near the horses they do or ESL does. And yet….

 

[4Afan]

And for me my perception of Loyola is they don’t recruit like MC. They don’t have near the horses they do or ESL does. And yet….

OK we're done here, you lost what little credibility you might have had when you said they don't recruit like MC. Your lack of knowledge has been exposed.

And yet...they were 4-5 last year. Nice that you keep glossing over that fact when you talk about consistency.

Yes, over the last 5 years ESL would be considered elite. 5 straight title games, not even MC can say that.

 

[nonA91745]

OK we're done here, you lost what little credibility you might have had when you said they don't recruit like MC. Your lack of knowledge has been exposed.

And yet...they were 4-5 last year. Nice that you keep glossing over that fact when you talk about consistency.

Yes, over the last 5 years ESL would be considered elite. 5 straight title games, not even MC can say that.

I have zero credibility here and I’m ok with that.

I do think I’ve made a fair point. Ppl can disagree that’s ok.

But if you’re trying to sell the good ppl on this board that LA and MC recruit equally I have a Chicago Bears stadium to sell you in Hammond, Indiana

 

[ODERTY1]

You win... we from a sad little town.. we play no competition... our legacy doesn't count.... us beating your elite team doesn't count..... we just a little poor 5a team praying to make the playoffs every blue moon lmao ....

 

[nonA91745]

You win... we from a sad little town.. we play no competition... our legacy doesn't count.... us beating your elite team doesn't count..... we just a little poor 5a team praying to make the playoffs every blue moon lmao ....

Ok

 

[jha618]

I have zero credibility here and I’m ok with that.

I do think I’ve made a fair point. Ppl can disagree that’s ok.

But if you’re trying to sell the good ppl on this board that LA and MC recruit equally I have a Chicago Bears stadium to sell you in Hammond, Indiana

Your point isnt fair at all. You gave your examples of your “elite” programs and when it was brought up that ESL is 2-0 vs them the last 3 years it doesn’t matter. But your basis for saying ESL isn’t elite is because of 3 games they should have won over the last 5 years? Hmm…something doesn’t add up.

If you want “insane schedules” who is going out and scheduling multiple top 50 programs every year for the non-con AND petitioning to play up 1 or 2 classes for the playoffs?

You value consistency, but in the past 5 years Loyolas non title seasons have been losses to Lockport (???) and a 4-5 season. One of their title seasons they were beat convincingly by ESL. ESL has been to 6 straight championship games.

I also see you use the term elite more often for ICCP than ESL.

Every part of your argument falls apart the minute you have to explain your rationale.

 

[Cross Bones]

What about Rochester, Byron, Wilmington, and L-W?

 

[4Afan]

What about Rochester, Byron, Wilmington, and L-W?

I'd obviously say JCA as well, but using his criteria down years are unacceptable

 

[nonA91745]

without a doubt many of those (Rochester Byron) elite contextual to their levels but among the elite teams in the state as a whole? I don’t think so and I don’t even think it’s fair to compare.

Neither of those teams getting a game scheduled with IMG National or American Heritage bc they and just about every single other team not named the Flyers would get their *** handed to them in the first quarter.

which is my oh soo tiresome point that I’ll retire now. A fact that ESL is not a 6a team it’s an 8a+ team (how this can even be debated is ridiculous) masquerading as a 6a team bc they can.
And maybe that’s where I’m going wrong. Maybe they tank these games on purposes so they can have a stretch of 4/5 games they win 50-0, walk away largely injury free, plenty of reps for the 2/3rd stringers and they walk through mc and almost beat American heritage. (And yeah boat races Loyola the last time they played further making my point).

a point that boils down to one thing. No matter how elite a team is it’s never elite if it can’t consistently beat the teams it’s overwhelmingly favored by almost everyone to beat. When you can’t do that consistently you are not elite even if you’re the only team in the state that could come close to making a game with IMG’s national team and teams like them.

Go Flyers. I think it’s a foregone conclusion they win 7a and I’d think the same with 8a which is where they should play imo. But it really can’t be a foregone conclusion if the track record from 2021 is what it is now can it?

 

[SiuCubFan8]

These are 16-18 year-olds not robots, you know that right?

 

[Cross Bones]

I'd obviously say JCA as well, but using his criteria down years are unacceptable

I think different people are using different criteria and perspective, and it all makes sense to me. The ESL argument from my POV has to be that they can match up with and consistently beat programs like MC and Loyola. While I respect every class for what they are, beating Plainfield E, Glenwood, Simeon, and St. Laurence dont move the needle for me. For us to win a championship the road is a lot more difficult, and it should be. However, if I were a 1A team that same ESL path probably looks a lot more daunting. Lena-Winslow has a lot of post season success, but if I want to argue that they're better than ESL I have to say more than they won 1A a bunch of times.

Thats why I hate these narratives people are trying to push about 5A being weak right now because average teams like PC and SF are favored to win it. That's an indicator of schools being in the wrong class, not that 29 public schools stink. And if you want to argue to me that SF or PC is better than Maine South then you have to come with more than wins over PR.

 

[ODERTY1]

I think different people are using different criteria and perspective, and it all makes sense to me. The ESL argument from my POV has to be that they can match up with and consistently beat programs like MC and Loyola. While I respect every class for what they are, beating Plainfield E, Glenwood, Simeon, and St. Laurence dont move the needle for me. For us to win a championship the road is a lot more difficult, and it should be. However, if I were a 1A team that same ESL path probably looks a lot more daunting. Lena-Winslow has a lot of post season success, but if I want to argue that they're better than ESL I have to say more than they won 1A a bunch of times.

Thats why I hate these narratives people are trying to push about 5A being weak right now because average teams like PC and SF are favored to win it. That's an indicator of schools being in the wrong class, not that 29 public schools stink. And if you want to argue to me that SF or PC is better than Maine South then you have to come with more than wins over PR.

We will beat the **** out of Bolingbrook, now historically metaphorically theoretically philosophically and consistently.

I just needed to smack your knuckles with a ruler

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Premeditated cheap shot.

Like a premeditated Mount Carmel cheap shot? Or one of them "coach told me too!" cheap shots bc they knew they suck so bad?

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

When MC won over ESL in the past, did ESL beat themselves?

shiiiiii.....

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Both Loyola and ESL have won 3 titles over the last 6 years, however Loyola has not made 6 straight title games.

 

[jha618]

I think different people are using different criteria and perspective, and it all makes sense to me. The ESL argument from my POV has to be that they can match up with and consistently beat programs like MC and Loyola. While I respect every class for what they are, beating Plainfield E, Glenwood, Simeon, and St. Laurence dont move the needle for me. For us to win a championship the road is a lot more difficult, and it should be. However, if I were a 1A team that same ESL path probably looks a lot more daunting. Lena-Winslow has a lot of post season success, but if I want to argue that they're better than ESL I have to say more than they won 1A a bunch of times.

Thats why I hate these narratives people are trying to push about 5A being weak right now because average teams like PC and SF are favored to win it. That's an indicator of schools being in the wrong class, not that 29 public schools stink. And if you want to argue to me that SF or PC is better than Maine South then you have to come with more than wins over PR.

I agree with that argument if the discussion was the top team in the state. But if we are simply talking about elite programs, class shouldnt matter. That distinction should be how those schools do amongst their peers. I dont think its fair to say Rochester, or Lena isnt elite because they cant be ESL or Loyola. They dominate their respective classes of teams with similar resources and should be considered elite programs just like ESL or Loyola.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

These are 16-18 year-olds not robots, you know that right?

 

[Cross Bones]

We will beat the **** out of Bolingbrook, now historically metaphorically theoretically philosophically and consistently.

I just needed to smack your knuckles with a ruler

Couldn't beat Cary Grove.

 

[Cross Bones]

I agree with that argument if the discussion was the top team in the state. But if we are simply talking about elite programs, class shouldnt matter. That distinction should be how those schools do amongst their peers. I dont think its fair to say Rochester, or Lena isnt elite because they cant be ESL or Loyola. They dominate their respective classes of teams with similar resources and should be considered elite programs just like ESL or Loyola.

Completely agree.

 

[Alexander33]

Looking at recent history, these are the four programs that have won two or more state championships at the 6A level or higher over the last five seasons. The number of championships, highest class level at which a championship was won, and the year of the most recent championship are listed to the right of each school.

1. Mt. Carmel-4 (8A) 2025
2. Loyola-3 (8A) 2024
3. East St. Louis-2 (6A) 2024
4. Cary-Grove-2 (6A) 2023

The fact that East St. Louis defeated Mt. Carmel and Loyola one time each during the last five seasons solidifies the Flyer's inclusion on this short list.

The fact that Cary-Grove defeated East St. Louis twice during the last five seasons solidifies including Cary-Grove on this list. However, with Cary-Grove's recent drop down to the 5A level, their inclusion will not last beyond this year.

If Brother Rice can get past East St. Louis and repeat as the 7A champion, they would be added to the list next year. Similarly, if Fenwick repeats as the 6A champion, then they also would be included next year.

 

[ODERTY1]

Couldn't beat Cary Grove.

And those CG teams would clock your Beloved

 

[Anon232446]

And those CG teams would clock your Beloved

I think that's the part that those who are knocking ESL are missing. Here are their three losses in the state championship in the last 6 years. Last year to Fenwick. Fenwick was tied with MC with 2 minutes left in the game. Outside of LA, MC hardly broke a sweat in winning the 8A championship.
'21 to CG. A team that went undefeated and won every game by double digits. Finished the year as #1 ranked team in the state by Max Preps.
'23 to CG. This is the only one I would say was shocking and a "bad loss" by ESL.
While ESL was certainly the favorite in all of these games, It's not like they were losing to the little sisters of the poor. 2 of those 3 teams they lost to were legit top 5 teams in the state regardless of class. To say that ESL can't be considered elite, despite all the evidence to the contrary because they lost 1 championship game to a good but not great team and two others to top 5 teams seems silly.

 

[Kevin JCHS 1981]

I love how this thread is progressing. Each poster shuffles the rules and moves around the goal posts until it fits their narrative. Then argues incessantly that they can prove their point by presenting the new totally distorted field and goal posts.

I need more popcorn. Carry on.

 

[ODERTY1]

I think that's the part that those who are knocking ESL are missing. Here are their three losses in the state championship in the last 6 years. Last year to Fenwick. Fenwick was tied with MC with 2 minutes left in the game. Outside of LA, MC hardly broke a sweat in winning the 8A championship.
'21 to CG. A team that went undefeated and won every game by double digits. Finished the year as #1 ranked team in the state by Max Preps.
'23 to CG. This is the only one I would say was shocking and a "bad loss" by ESL.
While ESL was certainly the favorite in all of these games, It's not like they were losing to the little sisters of the poor. 2 of those 3 teams they lost to were legit top 5 teams in the state regardless of class. To say that ESL can't be considered elite, despite all the evidence to the contrary because they lost 1 championship game to a good but not great team and two others to top 5 teams seems silly.

Exactly

 

[LHSTigers94]

I think that's the part that those who are knocking ESL are missing. Here are their three losses in the state championship in the last 6 years. Last year to Fenwick. Fenwick was tied with MC with 2 minutes left in the game. Outside of LA, MC hardly broke a sweat in winning the 8A championship.
'21 to CG. A team that went undefeated and won every game by double digits. Finished the year as #1 ranked team in the state by Max Preps.
'23 to CG. This is the only one I would say was shocking and a "bad loss" by ESL.
While ESL was certainly the favorite in all of these games, It's not like they were losing to the little sisters of the poor. 2 of those 3 teams they lost to were legit top 5 teams in the state regardless of class. To say that ESL can't be considered elite, despite all the evidence to the contrary because they lost 1 championship game to a good but not great team and two others to top 5 teams seems silly.

Let's also add in 23' QB knee injury first drive second half. Not many teams can win losing their four year starting QB. Just a little something to add.

 

[ODERTY1]

@nonA91745 who's your team because if you like @Cross Bones you dont know what good football looks like. Which would explain a lot

 

[Cross Bones]

And those CG teams would clock your Beloved

Nope. Just ESL. "Oh it was the triple option"

 

[LHSTigers94]

Nope. Just ESL. "Oh it was the triple option"

Never clocked ESL. Won, yes, clocked, hasn't happened by NO ILLINOIS team. LOL
Record against triple option 2-2.

 

[ODERTY1]

Whats bolingbrook's record against ESL?

 

[Cross Bones]

I love how this thread is progressing. Each poster shuffles the rules and moves around the goal posts until it fits their narrative. Then argues incessantly that they can prove their point by presenting the new totally distorted field and goal posts.

I need more popcorn. Carry on.

Another platinum production.

Never clocked ESL. Won, yes, clocked, hasn't happened by NO ILLINOIS team. LOL
Record against triple option 2-2.

Not arguin with you youre good people. Sometimes the lil buddy derty has to be put in the corner though.