Burroughs asked about coaching at Iowa

[VonEhwegen]

First off, Iowa doesn't have billionaire money earmarked for wrestling. Maybe someone comes out of the woodwork like Richison if JB is truly a candidate for the HC position soon. You simply can't ignore that Richison funded the National Duals himself. Do you even realized how unprecedented that is in a truly fringe sport like College Wrestling?

Bob has spent a LOT of money and has still, point blank, came on here a LOT and said money is still a major factor, especially for the RTC and a LOT more needs to be spent to truly be competitive with PSU and now what OkState is doing.

JB may very well be the guy that can get the pocket books open to a comparable level. Every experience I have had says he is a very bright guy and extremely capable. However, unlike DT, those pocket books aren't WIDE OPEN and flowing giving him an offer he can't refuse. THAT IS THE GIANT DIFFERENCE HERE....

You know what NLWC pays compared to HWC... and everyone wonders why all these top guys go there after college. It's not to "train with the best", they're already top guys and succeeded in their previous programs. It's all about $$$$, no different than a normal guy changing jobs. Most time change is due to money issues.

 

[Mattski]

Where did I say that ? Rutgers would pay him well.

Without Richisons $ DT isn't in Stillwater. Without Ira and his $ Cael isn't at Penn st . Iowa isn't gonna pay 1 million dollars for a wrestling coach so donors would need to . Tom will make 800k in 28-29. DT will be close to 1.2 then. So donors would need 400-500k year to supplement Burroughs contract

Believe me JB will want DT money it's called ego. This is wrestling a niche sport not the NFL

You clearly implied JB isn't coming here for less than 1.2 didn't you?

 

[vhsalum]

You know what NLWC pays compared to HWC... and everyone wonders why all these top guys go there after college. It's not to "train with the best", they're already top guys and succeeded in their previous programs. It's all about $$$$, no different than a normal guy changing jobs. Most time change is due to money issues.

Both Snyder and Dake took paycuts to go to the NLWC.

 

[Corby2]

You clearly implied DT isn't coming here for less than 1.2 didn't you?

I think you mean JB. I then mentioned Rutgers and you said so now $ doesn't matter. You assumed Rutgers couldn't pay him not me

 

[VonEhwegen]

So... it's not about the money now?
The fact is he said he'd take the call. Iowa can pay him top 3 salary and offer him top 3 resources in the sport to go along with a tradition and fanbase that can't be replicated at Rutgers or almost anywhere else besides the top 3. If Iowa sits back and let's him go to Rutgers or anywhere else without a serious conversation it would be a huge miss

Even if JB took the Rutgers job and was there for a couple years. I promise, if Iowa called, he would still take that call and be on the first plane to Iowa city. Say he went to Nebraska?? He may not, just due to obvious reasons.

 

[PennState1985]

You clearly implied DT isn't coming here for less than 1.2 didn't you?

I don't believe DT will ever leave OSU at this point. He has invested in building a brand and has been successful at it. It would take stupid money to even get his interest. If I'm Richison, I already have a poison pill for DT to take for any other school than PSU.

 

[Mattski]

I agree that Iowa should absolutely kick the tires with Jordan. The problem is how much it will take to get him. Bob already has stated when Tom is done he is done donating at least big sums of money. Who is going to pick up the difference is the issue. Then you need lots of donations for the RTC as well (probably way more than currently if you are being realistic). Maybe lots of smaller donors can make up the difference, but that takes tons of leg work to accomplish too. I don't believe for a second Iowa has unlimited funds, but they aren't starving either. Just not at the level of the top two. The next part is who do you think compliance limits more, David or Tom? Open check book with leeway to bend/break rules makes things look a lot more attractive to a possible new head coach for sure and you aren't going to get that at Iowa. Do you think OSU compliance says no to Bo (or Jax for that matter), because Iowa's did?!

There's a lot of assumptions here that we simply don't know for a fact. Do we really know Bob wouldn't be on board supporting a succession plan that involved bringing in the most accomplished American wrestler in the last 2+ decades to coach at Iowa? Do we think a guy with multiple world and olympic golds won in this CENTURY might be able to reignite a flailing RTC and generate some more $? I sure do.
I think the compliance stuff is mostly excuse making and whatever might have or might be going on isn't causing the gap we're seeing.

 

[Mattski]

I think you mean JB. I then mentioned Rutgers and you said so now $ doesn't matter. You assumed Rutgers couldn't pay him not me

Yeah JB, too many initials bouncing around in this thread. People brought him up after he said he'd listen to Iowa and you suggested it would take 1.2m to get him and Iowa would have a tough time coming up with that. You think Rutgers will pay him 1.2m? No chance.

 

[VonEhwegen]

I think you mean JB. I then mentioned Rutgers and you said so now $ doesn't matter. You assumed Rutgers couldn't pay him not me

1000% JB will want DT money & Dake will as well. They will all try to one up each other. BUT, if they don't have the donors to continue pumping into the program, none of it will matter, they will all fizzle out eventually.

 

[Corby2]

Yeah JB, too many initials bouncing around in this thread. People brought him up after he said he'd listen to Iowa and you suggested it would take 1.2m to get him and Iowa would have a tough time coming up with that. You think Rutgers will pay him 1.2m? No chance.

Time will tell but Rutgers has some $ people

 

[VonEhwegen]

Yeah JB, too many initials bouncing around in this thread. People brought him up after he said he'd listen to Iowa and you suggested it would take 1.2m to get him and Iowa would have a tough time coming up with that. You think Rutgers will pay him 1.2m? No chance.

You're right, Rutgers won't pay him that. And that's 100% the reason if a powerhouse school calls, he will answer the phone. He doesn't have the money leverage at Rutgers as they simply don't have it. If he was going to Iowa, Nebraska and such. Different story.

 

[Corby2]

1000% JB will want DT money & Dake will as well. They will all try to one up each other. BUT, if they don't have the donors to continue pumping into the program, none of it will matter, they will all fizzle out eventually.

Exactly the $ needs to be there and the investment long term otherwise it's not happening.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Time will tell but Rutgers has some $ people

Rutgers will pay him, but he won't be in the same neighborhood as Brands, DT or Cael. Same thing though, you go out spend money get yourself a new fancy coach. If you don't have the NIL to bring in the top kids, it won't matter. JB and such can only do some much without the blue chippers.

 

[Coastal2]

Not all great wrestlers make great coaches. Taylor had a proven track record at M2 producing high end wrestlers. Burroughs doesn't have that yet. Marstellar's club Stellar Trained has had a lot more success than All I See is Gold. It would be interesting if someone would take a chance on Dassan as he's had the most success recently.

 

[el dub]

First off, Iowa doesn't have billionaire money earmarked for wrestling. Maybe someone comes out of the woodwork like Richison if JB is truly a candidate for the HC position soon. You simply can't ignore that Richison funded the National Duals himself. Do you even realized how unprecedented that is in a truly fringe sport like College Wrestling?

Bob has spent a LOT of money and has still, point blank, came on here a LOT and said money is still a major factor, especially for the RTC and a LOT more needs to be spent to truly be competitive with PSU and now what OkState is doing.

JB may very well be the guy that can get the pocket books open to a comparable level. Every experience I have had says he is a very bright guy and extremely capable. However, unlike DT, those pocket books aren't WIDE OPEN and flowing giving him an offer he can't refuse. THAT IS THE GIANT DIFFERENCE HERE....

Bob told us money isn’t a factor, from what I remember.

 

[el dub]

Didn't Bob also say that the "playing field is now level"?

Yes, he did

 

[el dub]

Believe me JB will want DT money it's called ego. This is wrestling a niche sport not the NFL

Bullshite projection, bro.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Yes, he did

@bnicolls is playing field level?

 

[vhsalum]

Not all great wrestlers make great coaches. Taylor had a proven track record at M2 producing high end wrestlers. Burroughs doesn't have that yet. Marstellar's club Stellar Trained has had a lot more success than All I See is Gold. It would be interesting if someone would take a chance on Dassan as he's had the most success recently.

KD can't coach for sht. LOL

 

[Stick Kitty]

Rutgers will pay him, but he won't be in the same neighborhood as Brands, DT or Cael. Same thing though, you go out spend money get yourself a new fancy coach. If you don't have the NIL to bring in the top kids, it won't matter. JB and such can only do some much without the blue chippers.

I agree

Well JB can wish he get $1.2 all he wants but being the 3rd highest paid coach at $800k at blueblood program isn't shabby. I doubt Rutgers can match or meet 800K so I find Corby thumbing his nose at $800k funny.

Chances are Beth would probably up it a bit for the right coach. Beth can also right in incentives to pay him more if he finishes 1st or certain AA's or Champs. Also dont overlook a top assistant wont get Terry money so some can be shaved from that.

But its also funny to assume JB wouldn't take $800 or say $900k when he isn't even close to making that. Is his pride gonna keep him broke?

If he has real pride in himself he takes the 3rd highest salary job in the sport then finishes first and makes more.

Honestly if he doesn't want the job unless he is paid as much or more than DT to get motivated, then he might not be the guy we want.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

Time will tell but Rutgers has some $ people

Saying JB has this “ego” and also saying he’d go somewhere like Rutgers when DT got a big 3 job right away is kind of contradictory.

 

[Rusty’s Dad]

Wrestling has little parity: a top 5 dominate, unlike football (~12 contenders) or basketball (~20). Iowa is a top-5 program with strong fans and facilities, but it’s not a revenue sport. Heavy private funding of the top two (PSU/OSU) creates a bigger gap—“top 2 and everyone else.”

Not every elite wrestler can go to PSU/OSU, and Iowa’s foundation means it shouldn’t lose to Minnesota, Nebraska, or Iowa State. Without a cap (unlikely; not even sure how you factor in RTCs), cracking the top two will be tough without a game-changing coach who can rally the program and donors (e.g., maybe a Spencer Lee?).

 

[Corby2]

I agree

Well JB can wish he get $1.2 all he wants but being the 3rd highest paid coach at $800k at blueblood program isn't shabby. I doubt Rutgers can match or meet 800K so I find Corby thumbing his nose at $800k funny.

Chances are Beth would probably up it a bit for the right coach. Beth can also right in incentives to pay him more if he finishes 1st or certain AA's or Champs. Also dont overlook a top assistant wont get Terry money so some can be shaved from that.

But its also funny to assume JB wouldn't take $800 or say $900k when he isn't even close to making that. Is his pride gonna keep him broke?

If he has real pride in himself he takes the 3rd highest salary job in the sport then finishes first and makes more.

Honestly if he doesn't want the job unless he is paid as much or more than DT to get motivated, then he might not be the guy we want.

Not thumbing my nose but it will take a million for sure. Hes gotta move his family. In NJ he doesn't so he could obviously take a little less . I would be shocked if he's coaching outside of NJ for under 1 million. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again we all have opinions.

 

[Corby2]

Saying JB has this “ego” and also saying he’d go somewhere like Rutgers when DT got a big 3 job right away is kind of contradictory.

He's a NJ guy he's not looking at it like that and he will be paid the going rate and currently that's 1 million for a guy like him .

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

You know what NLWC pays compared to HWC... and everyone wonders why all these top guys go there after college. It's not to "train with the best", they're already top guys and succeeded in their previous programs. It's all about $$$$, no different than a normal guy changing jobs. Most time change is due to money issues.

They go there in part due to money but mostly because guys get better in their room while we stay stagnant

-Guy who would root for North Korea if they had a dual with PSU.

 

[Nashville_Hawk]

I don’t think Iowa’s shortcomings are because of money, but if it is, that’s on Tom. As CEO of the Hawkeye wrestling program, he should have a plan to raise more money and be building relationships with alumni to give more money. That’s part of the job description. Look, I loved Tom as a wrestler and admire him as a human, but he has had about the same tenure as Gable. What we have seen over 19 years is a little greatness, a few horrible moments, and a lot of mediocrity. It is an outcome based sport/business, and at the end of the day it is about wins and nattys. Tom hasn’t done enough. I don’t know why it so hard for everyone to hold him accountable. I’m willing to gamble and potentially move backwards with a new hire. At least that would be trying to achieve greatness again.

Kind of along the same thought process…I get 10 mailings from the Penn State Wrestling Club to every one that I receive from HWC. And the only reason I received those PSU mailings was because I bet PSU fans that our Hawks would beat them in individual matches through the years…and subsequently I pay the PSU wrestling club each March when we lose. Thats the only time the PSU WC hears from me….but I hear from them at least every couple months. That said, I donate to the HWC monthly and rarely hear a peep from them and almost never do I receive anything in the mail. My point is that if we need more money we need to be asking our fan base a little more aggressively, and frankly we’re not. I honestly believe that we could get a lot more money coming in if we improved our outreach program. And no, it’s not billionaire money but it’s still money…and in doing so we would get our fan base more involved. Just my two cents.

 

[Stick Kitty]

Not thumbing my nose but it will take a million for sure. Hes gotta move his family. In NJ he doesn't so he could obviously take a little less . I would be shocked if he's coaching outside of NJ for under 1 million. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again we all have opinions.

Totally agree that's a real issue. NJ is home and if he wants to raise a family there I get that. But likewise if you're talking money. What does say $1.2 million buy you for a home in Iowa vs NJ? Don't you think that's something to consider?


What $1.2 Million Buys in Iowa City, IA
In Iowa City, a $1.2 million budget places you at the very peak of the local real estate market. [1]

• The Scale: You can easily secure a 4,500 to 5,500 square foot home. Properties at this price point typically offer 5 to 7 bedrooms, sprawling open-concept floor plans, and massive 3-car heated garages. [1, 2, 3]
• The Land: Homes frequently sit on large wooded lots or custom acreages ranging from 0.5 to well over 1 acre, offering significant privacy. [1]
• The Luxury: You can expect high-end architectural builds (such as modern farmhouses or custom mid-century modern ranches) featuring gourmet chef’s kitchens, walk-in hidden pantries, fully finished daylight basements with wet bars, and dedicated indoor wellness areas or sports courts. [1, 2, 3]

What $1.2 Million Buys in Piscataway, NJ
In Piscataway, $1.2 million is considered an upper-tier price tag, but because New Jersey has some of the most expensive real estate in the nation, it does not buy an estate. [1]

• The Scale: You are looking at a premium but fundamentally standard 2,400 to 3,000 square foot contemporary Colonial or split-level home. It will generally feature 4 bedrooms and 2.5 to 3 bathrooms. [1, 2]
• The Land: The home will almost always sit on a standard, tightly packed suburban lot—usually under a quarter of an acre—within a commuter neighborhood.
• The Luxury: Rather than sprawling custom architecture, the luxury here comes from a combination of location premium (proximity to New York City rail lines and Rutgers) and modern interior finishes like quartz countertops, stainless appliances, and recessed lighting. [1, 2]

Long-Term Cost Differences
Beyond the physical size of the house, the ongoing cost of ownership will vary wildly due to location:

• Property Taxes: New Jersey features the highest property tax rates in the nation. A $1.2 million home in Piscataway will carry an incredibly steep annual property tax bill, often double or triple what you would pay for a similarly priced home in Iowa. [1, 2]
• The "Mansion Tax": New Jersey enforces a 1% transfer tax on the buyer for any residential property sold for over $1 million. Purchasing a $1.2 million home in Piscataway means you must pay a $12,000 cash fee directly to the state at closing. Iowa has no such luxury tax tier. [1]

 

[Corby2]

Totally agree that's a real issue. NJ is home and if he wants to raise a family there I get that. But likewise if you're talking money. What does say $1.2 million buy you for a home in Iowa vs NJ? I know the difference. Don't you think that's something to consider?

He already lives 45 min from Rutgers . I lived in NJ for 15 years I'm well aware

 

[VonEhwegen]

They go there in part due to money but mostly because guys get better in their room while we stay stagnant

-Guy who would root for North Korea if they had a dual with PSU.

That's not true at all, every single guy had success on the world stage before transferring to NLWC. They all sold out. It's part of the game, can't hate guys for doing what's best for themselves and their family. But call a spade a spade. IF NLWC didn't have the large funding they do, Snyder and Dake wouldn't be there. You think okie st club just got 100 times better because DT went there 2 years ago??? No, it was because donors started passing out buckets full of cash to get the top guys to come on over. They will do the same thing NLWC did in time, It's easier to buy talent than create it.

 

[WhiteDog125]

All I know is seems kind of pointless to throw $$$ into a facility and at kids for Iowa to continue to be 100 points behind in 4th place, not get big classes, hwc is very behind, & your head coach is an egotistical control freak maniac that is stuck in the mid 90s still. At some point it’s time to move on

 

[VonEhwegen]

Totally agree that's a real issue. NJ is home and if he wants to raise a family there I get that. But likewise if you're talking money. What does say $1.2 million buy you for a home in Iowa vs NJ? Don't you think that's something to consider?


What $1.2 Million Buys in Iowa City, IA
In Iowa City, a $1.2 million budget places you at the very peak of the local real estate market. [1]

• The Scale: You can easily secure a 4,500 to 5,500 square foot home. Properties at this price point typically offer 5 to 7 bedrooms, sprawling open-concept floor plans, and massive 3-car heated garages. [1, 2, 3]
• The Land: Homes frequently sit on large wooded lots or custom acreages ranging from 0.5 to well over 1 acre, offering significant privacy. [1]
• The Luxury: You can expect high-end architectural builds (such as modern farmhouses or custom mid-century modern ranches) featuring gourmet chef’s kitchens, walk-in hidden pantries, fully finished daylight basements with wet bars, and dedicated indoor wellness areas or sports courts. [1, 2, 3]

What $1.2 Million Buys in Piscataway, NJ
In Piscataway, $1.2 million is considered an upper-tier price tag, but because New Jersey has some of the most expensive real estate in the nation, it does not buy an estate. [1]

• The Scale: You are looking at a premium but fundamentally standard 2,400 to 3,000 square foot contemporary Colonial or split-level home. It will generally feature 4 bedrooms and 2.5 to 3 bathrooms. [1, 2]
• The Land: The home will almost always sit on a standard, tightly packed suburban lot—usually under a quarter of an acre—within a commuter neighborhood.
• The Luxury: Rather than sprawling custom architecture, the luxury here comes from a combination of location premium (proximity to New York City rail lines and Rutgers) and modern interior finishes like quartz countertops, stainless appliances, and recessed lighting. [1, 2]

Long-Term Cost Differences
Beyond the physical size of the house, the ongoing cost of ownership will vary wildly due to location:

• Property Taxes: New Jersey features the highest property tax rates in the nation. A $1.2 million home in Piscataway will carry an incredibly steep annual property tax bill, often double or triple what you would pay for a similarly priced home in Iowa. [1, 2]
• The "Mansion Tax": New Jersey enforces a 1% transfer tax on the buyer for any residential property sold for over $1 million. Purchasing a $1.2 million home in Piscataway means you must pay a $12,000 cash fee directly to the state at closing. Iowa has no such luxury tax tier. [1]

Almost all coaches have in their contracts, you get 20k or every AA or 200k for winning a team trophy. Something along those lines, what is Rutgers going to offer JB along those lines? You win 4 big ten duals and will give you 50k?? Haha, they would have to have something realistic as they have no shot at a team trophy any time soon and would take a lot of NIL to get them there. Everyone does have to start somewhere, look at poor Cael. He had to start at ISU, before moving up to the big leagues

 

[VonEhwegen]

All I know is seems kind of pointless to throw $$$ into a facility and at kids for Iowa to continue to be 100 points behind in 4th place, not get big classes, hwc is very behind, & your head coach is an egotistical control freak maniac that is stuck in the mid 90s still. At some point it’s time to move on

You got 5-10 million in NIL laying around? That's what it will take to close the gap. All the top coaches can coach, got to have the talent. To get talent you have to buy it these days.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

That's not true at all, every single guy had success on the world stage before transferring to NLWC. They all sold out. It's part of the game, can't hate guys for doing what's best for themselves and their family. But call a spade a spade. IF NLWC didn't have the large funding they do, Snyder and Dake wouldn't be there. You think okie st club just got 100 times better because DT went there 2 years ago??? No, it was because donors started passing out buckets full of cash to get the top guys to come on over. They will do the same thing NLWC did in time, It's easier to buy talent than create it.

Money isn’t why Iowa is underachieving. It’s part of the reason why we are even in the trophy hunt at this point. We have a gigantic development issue, we have a stigma around the program partially not earned but mostly earned because of TnT and it hurts our recruiting, and also have coaches who can’t act like normal humans in front of a microphone. I refuse to believe we can’t compete for team titles in this sport anymore, even if we have multimillionaires as donors instead of a billionaires. TNT either need to get better at their jobs or let the next guy in.

 

[AJD]

Without the $ DT isn't the coach

Agreed. It takes both. A dynamic leader and tremendous resources to complete at the highest of the highest levels. My sense is that raising the $ for the college team and its coaching staff is not the issue. It is the RTC funding where the difference is like 3 (OSU and PSU): 1(IA). Of course we all know the impact an elite RTC can have on college recruiting.

 

[AJD]

No way he takes the Rutgers job. He ain't stupid.

Rutgers can't even get the private school NJ kids.

And talk about an athletic program with $$ problems.

 

[Hoid]

Kind of along the same thought process…I get 10 mailings from the Penn State Wrestling Club to every one that I receive from HWC. And the only reason I received those PSU mailings was because I bet PSU fans that our Hawks would beat them in individual matches through the years…and subsequently I pay the PSU wrestling club each March when we lose. Thats the only time the PSU WC hears from me….but I hear from them at least every couple months. That said, I donate to the HWC monthly and rarely hear a peep from them and almost never do I receive anything in the mail. My point is that if we need more money we need to be asking our fan base a little more aggressively, and frankly we’re not. I honestly believe that we could get a lot more money coming in if we improved our outreach program. And no, it’s not billionaire money but it’s still money…and in doing so we would get our fan base more involved. Just my two cents.

I've had a similar experience. I used to be a regular contributor to the HWC and gave a sizable donation the wrestling facility. I would have happily donated more if they even tried a little - but there is so little effort given. Then I was treated rudely for offering suggestions for better fan outreach. This program won't get another dollar from me until there is a change.

 

[funkisfun10]

No way he takes the Rutgers job. He ain't stupid.

Rutgers can't even get the private school NJ kids.

Maybe because kids don't see the benefit of wrestling for a glorified high school coach. Goodale had success at Jackson...that's about it.

 

[WhiteDog125]

You got 5-10 million in NIL laying around? That's what it will take to close the gap. All the top coaches can coach, got to have the talent. To get talent you have to buy it these days.

Yeah.. that’s not the issue here

 

[Mattski]

As I said earlier, we're going to find out what Beth's (and the biggest donors) expectations are for this program for the long term in the next 6 months.
Arguably the Dan Gable/John Smith/Cael Sanderson of his era just said he'd listen if Iowa reached out. He's 20 years younger than your current head coach and he's hungry.
This is THE ONE program in the entire university that has consistently competed for and won championships in our lifetimes. THE ONE. Either you recognize that and have expectations to get back to the top or you don't. If you do, now is the time to take action.
Tom was absolutely the right hire at the time and he's been very good. He got the program back on track from where it was. But it's time to pass the torch.

 

[AndreTheHawk]

As I said earlier, we're going to find out what Beth's (and the biggest donors) expectations are for this program for the long term in the next 6 months.
Arguably the Dan Gable/John Smith/Cael Sanderson of his era just said he'd listen if Iowa reached out. He's 20 years younger than your current head coach and he's hungry.
This is THE ONE program in the entire university that has consistently competed for and won championships in our lifetimes. THE ONE. Either you recognize that and have expectations to get back to the top or you don't. If you do, now is the time to take action.
Tom was absolutely the right hire at the time and he's been very good. He got the program back on track from where it was. But it's time to pass the torch.

Agreed, I think Jason Nolf would be a great hire, and do it for Tom's salary..............