The Diehards are Waving the White Flag

[Virginiarufan]

I don't agree on Leipold. He seems to be on the same trajectory as Greg at Kansas (Much like Fickell-did well at non-P4 level, and not so well at P4)
(Greg is 31-41 (0.430)//15-39 (0.277)

2021	Kansas	2–10	1–8	10th
2022	Kansas	6–7	3–6	T–7th	L Liberty
2023	Kansas	9–4	5–4	T–7th	W Guaranteed Rate	23	23
2024	Kansas	5–7	4–5	10th
2025	Kansas	5–7	3–6	T–11th
2026	Kansas	0–0	0–0
Kansas:	27–35 (.435)	16–29 (0.355)

Typical calilite. He's the one who should sit-in the corner and shut up.

 

[Knight Shift]

Different level, same problem. You don't adapt, you fail. Dabo's buyout is $60M.

 

[e5fdny]

I'm curious how we will view this game in 5 years. Maybe it was necessary. It at least opens the door to ripping the band aid off now as opposed to convincing ourselves that 4 or 5 win seasons are acceptable.

It could be our version of “The Fumble” and the results that followed.

 

[e5fdny]

I am far from a diehard. But I still strongly support Greg Schiano, kinda sorta. In the sense that I strongly support whoever is walking the sideline wearing the Head Coach ID. On Friday night, that will be Greg. I want and expect him to succeed. If he doesn't, then I will strongly support somebody else, sooner or later.

I would think that’s anyone reasonable view point.
I love the school , Rutgers as a whole, and I want to be proud of our teams that I should at the very least enjoy watching.
I want the program to be a point of pride for NJ, a magnet to propel RU as an entire school, and become an economic boom for NB and Piscataway.
I want alumni , in the wild, to cheer each other on from across the street when they see the block R.
I want watch parties to be a public display of the RU alumni network and a place where people unite and enjoy en mass.

so whoever can help restore even a mediocre levels of pride and optimism for football & basketball. I support that.

I don’t care who wears the headset nor do I care who wear the helmets.

I do care about the institution and the name they all wear on their swag and front of their uniforms.

I’m not a cult of personality type, so whoever in that group gives us the results is who I want wearing scarlet and sporting the Block R.

 

[Bagarocks]

I’ve always given Schiano his just due. He has been a big part of putting RU football on the map, got the program competitive from the bottom and helped get RU into the B1G. He is a bright, articulate guy with solid leadership skills. However, a close analysis of his record shows very mediocre results over time. This is his 18th season as HC at RU. His teams had winning conference records only 4 of those years. That was during his first stint when BE teams played only 7 conference games. He built winning records through favorable scheduling of the 5 OOC games each year. Very often, they would play only 1 OOC game against a major conf program. Now in year 7 of his second stint, he has yet to have a winning conf record in the tough B1G. If RU loses at BC next week, I think that will be the deciding game that leads to his eventual termination as HC.

His eventual termination was sealed by a home game loss to a Umass team who had lost 16 games in a row.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I have been a defender of his. He brought us back from the dead not once but twice. I used to wonder how it would’ve been if he had never left for Tampa. Where would we be now. In truth, now I believe that he hit his ceiling in the Big East. If he had stayed we would have been in exactly the same place as now minus the Elmer Flood years. The question is how much of a hit is buying out his contract and who can we get to come here that wants to be here and how much will it cost. I’m not optimistic.

In what world do you mention Flood and not Ash?

I do agree that GS was the right hire both times. But not worth an extension.

 

[Knight Shift]

His eventual termination was sealed by a home game loss to a Umass team who had lost 16 games in a row.

You state this in the past tense as if it already has happened.
While I think the UMass game sealed his fate, a couple of things, though unlikely, could happen.
The team still goes 7-5, beating BC, Howard, Maryland, Michigan State, Nebraska, Northwestern and one of Michigan, USC or Penn State. But this is a very unlikely scenario.
The second thing is UMass could run the table, go undefeated and with the MAC. That is possible, as UMass does not have Western Michigan on their schedule, and they could meet in the championship.

However, both scenarios are unlikely, and I don't think Greg will have that long to prove himself.

In what world do you mention Flood and not Ash?

I do agree that GS was the right hire both times. But not worth an extension.

The problem with extensions- athletic directors are lemmings. They hand out extensions like Halloween candy. The real reason to hand out extensions is that a coach gets so "hot," the school wants to prevent the coach from leaving. But agents use canards such as "it will hurt recruiting if Coach X has less than 3 years on his contract." Well, that canard is out the window in the NIL era. As we have seen, the decent players leave to play for the top teams to improve their NFL draft stock. Rutgers runs this risk with Antwan Raymond if the run blocking does not improve. He may get drafted anyway, but if the OL and the running game both tank, he may want to improve his draft stock somewhere else.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

Pointed out the same last year. I sit above the RU bench and I watch the sidelines closely. Very unattached and very little coaching from anyone last night. Everyone was going through the motions. Only one that was trying to get people up was Chas Dodd. Vallone and Noonan were extremely mellow. Not like them at all. Especially considering both of their units were getting rag dolled.

Not surprised at Dodd, the type of player he was.

 

[Caliknight]

I’ve said this for years and have been mocked on these boards for my opinion.

While I wish I was wrong in my opinion and hoped I was proven otherwise - I guess it’s good our fanbase is finally now seeing it - though years too late

Same. People always claimed I have some personal vendetta against him. It was and is about the same thing. He sucks as a coach. Bringing him back was a huge mistake at the time. Keeping him a day longer than necessary would be just as bad. The longer this miserable charade goes on the more all that work Keli and co have been doing on the branding deal front gets compromised. Schiano picked a horrible time to Schiano.

 

[Caliknight]

The list includes others like RaRa as well.

And MCR

 

[Caliknight]

So who would the professionals be?

Keli and Co. not some message board guys who did the sit in or cried they’d stop donations of Greg wasn’t hired.

 

[bigmatt718]

Different level, same problem. You don't adapt, you fail. Dabo's buyout is $60M.

Dabo and Schiano are both dinosaurs that can and will be sent to Shady Acres Retirement Home by Thanksgiving.

 

[Caliknight]

Typical calilite. He's the one who should sit-in the corner and shut up.

Hey look, Gregg’s biggest supporter. Don’t you look dumb right about now. I’m embarrassed for you.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Same. People always claimed I have some personal vendetta against him. It was and is about the same thing. He sucks as a coach. Bringing him back was a huge mistake at the time. Keeping him a day longer than necessary would be just as bad. The longer this miserable charade goes on the more all that work Keli and co have been doing on the branding deal front gets compromised. Schiano picked a horrible time to Schiano.

the problem is that people are more loyal to the coach than to the school

Greg is now bad for the brand and people are seeing it.

Need to can him sooner, put in the interim coach so we can have the widest pool of candidates possible

 

[Anon1754923206]

the problem is that people are more loyal to the coach than to the school

Greg is now bad for the brand and people are seeing it.

Need to can him sooner, put in the interim coach so we can have the widest pool of candidates possible

Unless we lose to bc and Howard, I don’t see that happening. Beat a crappy bc and a woefully undermatched Howard and GS will be all cocky and saying chop in every sentence and other such nonsense. It is causality loop…

 

[RUTGERS95]

Unless we lose to bc and Howard, I don’t see that happening. Beat a crappy bc and a woefully undermatched Howard and GS will be all cocky and saying chop in every sentence and other such nonsense. It is causality loop…

don't forget violence lol

I'm waiting for the 'violent chop or chop violence' next

 

[Kbe4]

His eventual termination was sealed by a home game loss to a Umass team who had lost 16 games in a row.

So true.
Although I will say that it wasn't exactly the same Umass team as last year. Something like 55 new players.

 

[Bagarocks]

So true.
Although I will say that it wasn't exactly the same Umass team as last year. Something like 55 new players.

So yer making excuses for the loss. what a joke. Think about what you just said...

 

[Knight Shift]

So yer making excuses for the loss. what a joke. Think about what you just said...

That's not an excuse, it's a fact. An inconvenient fact against a narrative. That does not at all change that Rutgers played like dog cr@p, and they deserved to lose.

 

[Bagarocks]

You state this in the past tense as if it already has happened.
While I think the UMass game sealed his fate, a couple of things, though unlikely, could happen.
The team still goes 7-5, beating BC, Howard, Maryland, Michigan State, Nebraska, Northwestern and one of Michigan, USC or Penn State. But this is a very unlikely scenario.
The second thing is UMass could run the table, go undefeated and with the MAC. That is possible, as UMass does not have Western Michigan on their schedule, and they could meet in the championship.

However, both scenarios are unlikely, and I don't think Greg will have that long to prove himself.

The problem with extensions- athletic directors are lemmings. They hand out extensions like Halloween candy. The real reason to hand out extensions is that a coach gets so "hot," the school wants to prevent the coach from leaving. But agents use canards such as "it will hurt recruiting if Coach X has less than 3 years on his contract." Well, that canard is out the window in the NIL era. As we have seen, the decent players leave to play for the top teams to improve their NFL draft stock. Rutgers runs this risk with Antwan Raymond if the run blocking does not improve. He may get drafted anyway, but if the OL and the running game both tank, he may want to improve his draft stock somewhere else.

Greg Schiano has one 10 win (11) season in how many years at Rutgers?
His ceiling is 6 Win seasons plus a bowl win to make 7 that's it.
As Parcels said it so eloquently years ago, you are what yer record says you are.

 

[Kbe4]

That's not an excuse, it's a fact. An inconvenient fact against a narrative. That does not at all change that Rutgers played like dog cr@p, and they deserved to lose.

So true.

 

[Bagarocks]

That's not an excuse, it's a fact. An inconvenient fact against a narrative. That does not at all change that Rutgers played like dog cr@p, and they deserved to lose.

Ok so why then if its a different team from last year, which all college teams are year by year, is that part of the discussion? Our team is different from last year also. but their team beat us because they are different from last year. Gotcha

 

[rutgersguy2]

So true.
Although I will say that it wasn't exactly the same Umass team as last year. Something like 55 new players.

Yes and if they end up being respectable that would reinforce something I’ve been saying for some time here when people complain about the new college landscape. You can turn things around pretty quickly and it doesn’t have to take forever.

Jason Eck is a name I’ve mentioned since last year as one to keep an eye one for the future. IIRC he had 73 new players a last year his first at NM, the most in FBS. He got a share of the MWC regular season championship and got to the champ game. They did things there they haven’t in a long time or ever. If he has another good season this year, he’ll be on P4 radars, namely Wisconsin if they make a change. He’s an alum from Alvarez days.

He also got Idaho to 3 straight FCS playoffs after a bunch of losing season prior to his arrival. Took Oregon to the 4th qtr down 3 and ultimately lost by 10.

Point being things can turn quickly for anyone these days and that includes us. It doesn’t have to and frankly shouldn’t take 5-7 years or it’s the wrong person in the seat.

 

[Knight Shift]

Ok so why then if its a different team from last year, which all college teams are year by year, is that part of the discussion? Our team is different from last year also. but their team beat us because they are different from last year. Gotcha

You are missing nuance. See the post from @rutgersguy2 immediately below your post. The UMass team may wind up be significantly better than last year. And Rutgers may be significantly worse than last year. That's a worse case scenario for Greg. It's no secret his portal haul was not very good. As I said, regardless of whether UMass is improved, Rutgers looked like dog cr@p. That's the real issue for Greg unless they show some miracut improved this week and each game after that. But he may not have long to prove it.

 

[kupuna133]

Yes and if they end up being respectable that would reinforce something I’ve been saying for some time here when people complain about the new college landscape. You can turn things around pretty quickly and it doesn’t have to take forever.

Jason Eck is a name I’ve mentioned since last year as one to keep an eye one for the future. IIRC he had 73 new players a last year his first at NM, the most in FBS. He got a share of the MWC regular season championship and got to the champ game. They did things there they haven’t in a long time or ever. If he has another good season this year, he’ll be on P4 radars, namely Wisconsin if they make a change. He’s an alum from Alvarez days.

He also got Idaho to 3 straight FCS playoffs after a bunch of losing season prior to his arrival. Took Oregon to the 4th qtr down 3 and ultimately lost by 10.

Point being things can turn quickly for anyone these days and that includes us. It doesn’t have to and frankly shouldn’t take 5-7 years or it’s the wrong person in the seat.

You and I have been pretty consistent with NIL and roster construction the last couple of years. What’s interesting and was pointed out when talking about the difference in Dabo and Kiffen the other night. Lane used his money to construct a roster to compete. Dabo used his money to maintain a program. There is no longer “maintaining a program”. Every year you have to build a roster. You can’t be what Schiano wants in a “developmental” program. They will not succeed. Exactly what I’ve been saying for years. Only thing a “developmental” program does is develop someone else’s talent. Need a win now mentality. Sorry to say you only have players for a year. Very few players are going to be loyal.

 

[rutgersguy2]

You and I have been pretty consistent with NIL and roster construction the last couple of years. What’s interesting and was pointed out when talking about the difference in Dabo and Kiffen the other night. Lane used his money to construct a roster to compete. Dabo used his money to maintain a program. There is no longer “maintaining a program”. Every year you have to build a roster. You can’t be what Schiano wants in a “developmental” program. They will not succeed. Exactly what I’ve been saying for years. Only thing a “developmental” program does is develop someone else’s talent. Need a win now mentality. Sorry to say you only have players for a year. Very few players are going to be loyal.

I don’t have an issue, a lot of people are loyal to the almighty dollar. Just like the “real world” loyalty isn’t always rewarded either so I don’t blame them. They can do whatever they feel is in their best interest.

But as a CFB junkie I can see what is happening and I see a lot more parity (not perfect) than ever before and a lot more opportunity than ever before. So I’ll take that. Teams from higher status to lower status are doing things they haven’t done in a long time or ever. I like that and think it’s good for the sport. Just because things haven’t happened here doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. You need the right people in place and some luck as well.

Playoffs expand to 24 and schools like us can even get in from time to time. I feel optimistic about what can be done here, not the reverse

 

[kupuna133]

I don’t have an issue, a lot of people are loyal to the almighty dollar. Just like the “real world” loyalty isn’t always rewarded either so I don’t blame them. They can do whatever they feel is in their best interest.

But as a CFB junkie I can see what is happening and I see a lot more parity (not perfect) than ever before and a lot more opportunity than ever before. So I’ll take that. Teams from higher status to lower status are doing things they haven’t done in a long time or ever. I like that and think it’s good for the sport. Just because things haven’t happened here doesn’t mean it isn’t possible. You need the right people in place and some luck as well.

Playoffs expand to 24 and schools like us can even get in from time to time. I feel optimistic about what can be done here, not the reverse

Agreed 100%. Why should a player be beholden to rules coaches aren’t. Sucks for continuity as fans but it’s the world we’re in now. Not the biggest of fans of this new world but in order to be successful you have to learn to be creative and adapt. Parity is here. Or the ability to have parity is here. It’s just do you want to participate.

 

[rucoe89]

This is not meant to be a joke or funny. Are there any fans left that still strongly support Greg?

Covey Leader of Loyal Scarlet Knight Diehards, @MrsScrew , Bori Blanco, Aaron, talk to me. . . . .







They're all gone, sir.

Unless Greg goes 9 and 3 the rest of the season, support for him is over. He is essentially "dead coach walking."

 

[rucoe89]

every media outlet that touches on sports is a fire with it.

NYC has much more CFB interest than people believe

Rutgers needs a 'name' coach, have to hit a home run and can't go cheap

Depends what you mean by "name" coach. Could care less about the name. Rutgers needs a coach that knows how to win. Curt Cignetti is one example. Dave Braun is another example. Not sure they were "name" coaches but both are doing well.

 

[rutgersguy2]

You are missing nuance. See the post from @rutgersguy2 immediately below your post. The UMass team may wind up be significantly better than last year. And Rutgers may be significantly worse than last year. That's a worse case scenario for Greg. It's no secret his portal haul was not very good. As I said, regardless of whether UMass is improved, Rutgers looked like dog cr@p. That's the real issue for Greg unless they show some miracut improved this week and each game after that. But he may not have long to prove it.

These are just scenarios who knows if they happen.

I wpuldnt have thought he could get fired in season but can’t rule it out after UMass.

A loss to BC I think he could be fine to keep going on with the season.

A blowout by BC would be quite tenuous.

The real problem for him would be potential “consecutive” (not counting Howard in between) blowouts to USC and IU.

After IU is a potential deck clearing moment, then you set the interim up for maybe some success against more manageable Maryland and NW.

 

[MADHAT1]

I'm curious how we will view this game in 5 years. Maybe it was necessary. It at least opens the door to ripping the band aid off now as opposed to convincing ourselves that 4 or 5 win seasons are acceptable.

Don't know what the loss will lead to, but odds are it's the beginning of the end for Schiano and maybe a smile on our faces in 5 years over how Greg's replacement is doing.
Or a kick out Keli movement, because Zinn's hire was a dud

As for what will the game be knob as, it will be the second coming of the New Hampshire disaster being called the "Utterly Crass loss to UMass "

 

[MURF87]

“The UMess”

 

[Knight Shift]

Remember when Aaron Breitman was like the head fan cheerleader of the team? Rock bottom.

 

[RUDivision]

Remember when Aaron Breitman was like the head fan cheerleader of the team? Rock bottom.

There is no justification for Schiano any longer. No one can back him.
DC debacle
Firing OL coach - nightmare
QB Starter - Clown show

etc etc etc

Our only discussion should be who is the right next HC!

 

[RUDivision]

Remember when Aaron Breitman was like the head fan cheerleader of the team? Rock bottom.

There is no justification for Schiano any longer. No one can back him.
DC debacle
Firing OL coach - nightmare
QB Starter - Clown show

etc etc etc

Our only discussion should be who is the right next HC

 

[Shelby65]

It doesn’t matter if it’s an entirely different roster. Schiano got schooled by a 2nd year coach and boatraced by players generally not good enough for P4 scholarships or playing time this year.

He’s always been a poor game prep and game day coach and finally Thursday the curtain was pulled back exposing him as the fraud he’s always been.

He’s a 7 million dollar/year gym teacher who get out planned and out coached nearly every week by capable coaches.

 

[RUTGERS95]

 

[NotInRHouse]

NW lost 40 B1G games in a row lol and only recently broke a NCAA drought. That social media puts out crap like this really shows how looney the internet can make things sometimes. Whatever our issues are we're not going anywhere. A ton of B1G teams lost MAC games, including us, before, and really Michigan did this past weekend.

 

[iReC89]

Those darn 37 helmets made me forgive and forget a lot. Umass game doesn’t really matter right now.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The obvious and usual suspects with deranged axes to grind and nothing else to do are going to keep doing their ususal crap.

The issue that changed with GS on Thursday was losing by 2 scores to a MAC team. The troll brigade complaining about losing to Oregon or a close loss to an Iowa or Minnesota in previous seasons was ranting and raving about something different altogether.

There are decades old issues that would require taking down an Oregon or Ohio State, and major NIL catchup.

But we should be able to beat the UMasses of the world.

And even assuming that UMass is going to win the MAC or something which may be a little much of an assumption in my view, we should have looked more like we belong and did not.

That is a big change versus last year when you have 3 different plays and you're talking an 8 win team.

All else aside, money remains a factor especially since Pikeill is also on very thin ice. We don't have a fanbase that is going to pony up for either, even to pluck assistants or mid major coaches. Some of our fans are in total la la land about that. Fair or right or not we need to be reality based. So I'd much rather that GS at least get the ship right then hoping for a Cignetti and landing another Ash.