Stop the Witch Hunts, Let People Enjoy A Good Offseason

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Lol, and those attempts were easily refuted. Pope has literally accomplished nothing as a head coach, nor will he. He just isn't a good coach.

Sorry that upsets you.

Totally false but I do understand that someone as arrogant as you will continue to claim victory on this and all issues for that matter regardless of demonstrated facts. Trying to accuse me of being upset is baseless despite your utterly lame gif.

 

[Cattorney]

Apparently a Texas judge just said hold my beer SEC. And just because of a few did it, doesn’t mean he should have, like I said, he had no eligibility at that time. I don’t see a court going against that.

Regarding the players returning from trying to go pro that the SEC passed 2 days ago. The issue here involves a pre existing rule that doesn't prevent Mitchell from playing in the SEC or CBB. It just prevents him from transferring to another SEC school. A rule which UK previously agreed to.

Neither did others who still entered. Him and his agent failed to do so. That's on them. Playing the I didn't know card when others clearly still did and it wasn't exactly a secret it was being considered won't go far and will look disengenious. That all will go the the reasonable person standard. Whether you agree or not isn't something the court will considered unfortunately.

The other issues is that is seems appeals courts or federal courts are siding with the NCAA at least insofar as not upholding the TROs in a lot of these cases. That alone indicates they at last view the NCAA jas having a somewhat credible argument.

 

[Cattorney]

Totally false but I do understand that someone as arrogant as you will continue to claim victory on this and all issues for that matter regardless of demonstrated facts. Trying to accuse me of being upset is baseless despite your utterly lame gif.

Are your alleged facts in the room with you?

I'm not really accusing you. Just pointing out the obvious, bud. You're demonstrating it all on your own.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Are your alleged facts in the room with you?

I'm not really accusing you. Just pointing out the obvious, bud. You're demonstrating it all on your own.

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

 

[Cattorney]

I will post from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa

Lets just start with 1 of them:

Hurley took Wagner from 13-17 to 25-6 in 1 year. That was his first job. They finished 2nd in their conference year 2.

He then went to an awful RI program with like 7 wins the year before he got there, and had them 23-10 in year 3. Tied for 2nd in the conference. He then proceeded to win a conference championship and tournament there as well as a-10 COY. Also took them to back to back NCAA tournaments and won games both years.

He then took over a uconn program on probation, and by year 3 had them back in the tournament 3rd in the Big east. Years 5 and 6 were national championships.

That was without a portal, NIL or any benefit Pope has had at UK.

Now you do pope!

Tom Izzos first 6 years of coaching he went to 3 F4s and won a NC. Are you serious with this ****? Lol

 

[DudahUK]

Regarding the players returning from trying to go pro that the SEC passed 2 days ago. The issue here involves a pre existing rule that doesn't prevent Mitchell from playing in the SEC or CBB. It just prevents him from transferring to another SEC school. A rule which UK previously agreed to.

Neither did others who still entered. Him and his agent failed to do so. That's on them. Playing the I didn't know card when others clearly still did and it wasn't exactly a secret it was being considered won't go far and will look disengenious. That all will go the the reasonable person standard. Whether you agree or not isn't something the court will considered unfortunately.

The other issues is that is seems appeals courts or federal courts are siding with the NCAA at least insofar as not upholding the TROs in a lot of these cases. That alone indicates they at last view the NCAA jas having a somewhat credible argument.

Yeah I know it’s an SEC transfer rule that seems to be holding MM back, the courts in Kentucky have already ruled he is good to go regarding the NCAA, the SEC is in bed with them and will get rocked. I’d bet money on it.

I find it funny you keep making a point that the court doesn’t consider my opinion but somehow yours is. Wanna place a friendly wager? I’ll bet the SEC will either be beat in the courts or drop it.

I notice you also didn’t mention the money he could lose if he wasn’t allowed to play at Kentucky. Nobody else is going to pay more or I imagine he would have went there. You should know you can’t infringe on someone’s rights like that.

Also, when you have 7th year college players already alllowed to play, it kinda killls the NCAA’s point.

annnnddddd, different courts have different rulings all the time. You should know that. That means jack. Unless the SEC wants to take this to the supreme court(and lose).

 

[DudahUK]

Lets just start with 1 of them:

Hurley took Wagner from 13-17 to 25-6 in 1 year. That was his first job. They finished 2nd in their conference year 2.

He then went to an awful RI program with like 7 wins the year before he got there, and had them 23-10 in year 3. Tied for 2nd in the conference. He then proceeded to win a conference championship and tournament there as well as a-10 COY. Also took them to back to back NCAA tournaments and won games both years.

He then took over a uconn program on probation, and by year 3 had them back in the tournament 3rd in the Big east. Years 5 and 6 were national championships.

That was without a portal, NIL or any benefit Pope has had at UK.

Now you do pope!

Tom Izzos first 6 years of coaching he went to 3 F4s and won a NC. Are you serious with this ****? Lol

Get em!!

 

[Cattorney]

Yeah I know it’s an SEC transfer rule that seems to be holding MM back, the courts in Kentucky have already ruled he is good to go regarding the NCAA, the SEC is in bed with them and will get rocked. I’d bet money on it.

I find it funny you keep making a point that the court doesn’t consider my opinion but somehow yours is. Wanna place a friendly wager? I’ll bet the SEC will either be beat in the courts or drop it.

I notice you also didn’t mention the money he could lose if he wasn’t allowed to play at Kentucky. Nobody else is going to pay more or I imagine he would have went there. You should know you can’t infringe on someone’s rights like that.

Also, when you have 7th year college players already alllowed to play, it kinda killls the NCAA’s point.

But based on what? Just a feeling or any actual legal knowledge?

You're the one who literally keeps saying how you feel. I haven't. I literally said it will be interesting to see. Lulz. Are you drinking or something?

Can he not make money elsewhere? So all players should have to be eligible at UK because we pay more? How much exactly will he be losing? Is it guaranteed or projected? Will is irreparably harm him? If only UK can offer this benefit, why did he spend the previous 4 years elsewhere? Those are all questions the court will want to know answers to. So, you have them?

What right is being infringed and where is this right in the constitution?

How so? Hoes that case relate to this one?

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

First off selecting one coach proves nothing anyway but here you go. BTW Hurley's 25-6 was against a schedule ranked 303rd of 344.

Utah Valley St did not even have a program until 2004-2005. They had gone 182-148 for a 55% winning % prior to Pope's arrival. Pope took over in 2015 and won 12 his first season improving to 17,23, and 25 for a total record of 77-56 63%. He then went to BYU who has won at an Alltime 63% clip mostly in smaller conferences and won at a 68% rate. He twice finished 2nd to Gonzaga in the WCC who finished the year ranked #1 and #2 nationally those seasons before moving to the Big 12 and finishing 5th of 13 in what was considered the best conference in the country that season.

Izzo's first two years as a coach were at a well established power conference team following a successful coach who had gone 22-6 his final season. It was clearly spelled out that the basis of the comparison was the first two years at the school they went on to win a title at.

 

[DudahUK]

But based on what? Just a feeling or any actual legal knowledge?

You're the one who literally keeps saying how you feel. I haven't. I literally said it will be interesting to see. Lulz. Are you drinking or something?

Can he not make money elsewhere? So all players should have to be eligible at UK because we pay more? How much exactly will he be losing? Is it guaranteed or projected? Will is irreparably harm him? If only UK can offer this benefit, why did he spend the previous 4 years elsewhere? Those are all questions the court will want to know answers to. So, you have them?

What right is being infringed and where is this right in the constitution?

How so? Hoes that case relate to this one?

I’ll have to get back to you on all those questions tomorrow if that’s okay. Hell yeah I’m drinking and more. Lol. My chick has friends over and they are annoying as hell, hence why I’m on here but now she’s complaining. I just don’t really like her friends but whatever.

 

[RunninRichie]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

LOL, you really put coaches on here, who won big at their previous schools, or were in totally different eras of CBB. To prop up Mark Pope. Pope coached 9 years before being hired at UK. For example, putting Scott Drew on the list is hilarious, players were killing each other on that team, before he was hired. It was the worst basketball job in America. Baylor basketball post 1950 is Scott Drew.

 

[Cattorney]

First off selecting one coach proves nothing anyway but here you go. BTW Hurley's 25-6 was against a schedule ranked 303rd of 344.

Utah Valley St did not even have a program until 2004-2005. They had gone 182-148 for a 55% winning % prior to Pope's arrival. Pope took over in 2015 and won 12 his first season improving to 17,23, and 25 for a total record of 77-56 63%. He then went to BYU who has won at an Alltime 63% clip mostly in smaller conferences and won at a 68% rate. He twice finished 2nd to Gonzaga in the WCC who finished the year ranked #1 and #2 nationally those seasons before moving to the Big 12 and finishing 5th of 13 in what was considered the best conference in the country that season.

Izzo's first two years as a coach were at a well established power conference team following a successful coach who had gone 22-6 his final season. It was clearly spelled out that the basis of the comparison was the first two years at the school they went on to win a title at.

Umm.. did Utah Valley state win conference championships immediately before Pope? Did they win them shortly after pope left?

Why did they win none when he was coach?

 

[Cattorney]

LOL, you really put coaches on here, who won big at their previous schools, or were in totally different eras of CBB. To prop up Mark Pope. Pope coached 9 years before being hired at UK. For example, putting Scott Drew on the list is hilarious, players were killing each other on that team, before he was hired. It was the worst basketball job in America. Baylor basketball post 1950 is Scott Drew.

Coach K also turned Army competitive at the NIT level and they have never made it again either since he left in 78. He turned duke into a powerhouse rather quickly.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Billy D won the conference at Marshall during his first year as HC. He then went to UF where he went to the sw 16 in his 5th year coaching and was NC runnerup in year 6. You think that's like Pope how?

 

[RunninRichie]

Billy D won the conference at Marshall during his first year as HC. He then went to UF where he went to the sw 16 in his 5th year coaching and was NC runnerup in year 6. You think that's like Pope how?

This might be the worst and most laughable argument ever. Basically "just wait, Pope could be like Lute Olson, Dan Hurely, Coach K, or Dean Smith".

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Golden took San Fran to their first tournament in 24 years by yr 3 as a & HC. Then won a NC in his 6th year coaching.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Tony Bennett went to the NCAA tournament his first 2 years as a HC and made the sw16 in year 2. And that was in the Pac 12.

He was AP and Naismith coach of the year in his first or second season as a HC.

Won the ACC 6 times, including his 4th and 5th seasons.

 

[Cattorney]

Jay Wright won back to back conference championships and tournaments in his first job at Hofstra. They went from 10-18 his first year to 3 straight 20+win seasons in his last 3. No portal, no NIL.

He didn't have a ton of tournament success, but he certainly did way more than Pope by this point in their careers.

 

[UKortho]

Jay Wright won back to back conference championships and tournaments in his first job at Hofstra. They went from 10-18 his first year to 3 straight 20+win seasons in his last 3. No portal, no NIL.

He didn't have a ton of tournament success, but he certainly did way more than Pope by this point in their careers.

Nice post (s). He props up Pope every chance he gets despite what a few of us know and have seen.

 

[Cattorney]

Nice post (s). He props up Pope every chance he gets despite what a few of us know and have seen.

To be fair, I've never actually witnessed him be able to prop Pope up. Just attempts. When you actually look at the resume, there is literally nothing to prop up. It's awful.

 

[CELTICAT]

IDK if you’ve checked in on the witches lately, but they need to be hunted.

and yes, I know this mixes the metaphor.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Dean Smith was in the F4 or better in his 4th, 5th and 6th seasons as a HC.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Nolan Richardson started coaching at the JC level. Won the NC there in his 3rd year.

He then went to Tulsa where he won the NIT in year 1, then proceeded to take Tulsa to the NCAA tournament 3 of the next 4 years. He won the conference regular season 3 times and the tournament twice.

Then went to Arkansas and took them to the f4 on year 5.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Gary Williams won his conference in his 3rd year as a HC. Took Boston college to a sw16 in year 1 and only his 4th as a HC, also winning the big east.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

To be fair, I've never actually witnessed him be able to prop Pope up. Just attempts. When you actually look at the resume, there is literally nothing to prop up. It's awful.

1.) I think you’re speaking in absolutes and the facts don’t match it. Pope had strong points in his tenures prior to Kentucky and showed program building chops. You can argue you would have wanted to see more from that part of his career and that would be fair, but he certainly showed promise.

2.) Paul captured the first two years of top-shelf coaches and simply pointed out how stark the difference can be between a coach’s early career versus their later career when comparing records. It was a valid point and in no way assumed Pope will be equivalent to the men on that list, nor invalidates the importance of winning. It simply shows Pope’s future, for now, remains unknown.

No one would have known the level of success most of the coaches on Paul’s list would have early on. And that’s fine. You can see that and understand it without worrying that it forces you to believe Pope has the same trajectory.

 

[Cattorney]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

Lute Olsen started at JC and won his conference 3 of the 4 years he was there. Went to Longbeach for a year and won the conference there, going 24-2, undefeated in conference play.

Went to IA and got them to the F4 in back to back years in his 10th and 11th years as a coach.

 

[Cattorney]

1.) I think you’re speaking in absolutes and the facts don’t match it. Pope had strong points in his tenures prior to Kentucky and showed program building chops. You can argue you would have wanted to see more from that part of his career and that would be fair, but he certainly showed promise.

2.) Paul captured the first two years of top-shelf coaches and simply pointed out how stark the difference can be between a coach’s early career versus their later career when comparing records. It was a valid point and in no way assumed Pope will be equivalent to the men on that list, nor invalidates the importance of winning. It simply shows Pope’s future, for now, remains unknown.

No one would have known the level of success most of the coaches on Paul’s list would have early on. And that’s fine. You can see that and understand it without worrying that it forces you to believe Pope has the same trajectory.

I've literally provided the facts. What absolutes did I use?

Help your buddy out. Give us Pope's accomplishments!

But those guys all had early career success. That's been pointed out in the recent posts by me and others. If you disagree, please contradict it!

Sure they would know it! They all demonstrated sans Calhoun.

Literally everyone's future is unknown. Good Lord.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Literally everyone's future is unknown. Good Lord.

This is the point.

Pope’s career at Kentucky so far, in my opinion, has not been good enough to warrant widely held confidence. That agreed with the fan poll I put out recently where almost everyone voted that they were in the middle on Pope, slightly confident or slightly doubtful. Everyone knows the warts, everyone knows the strengths.

As for his early career, he was a promising coach. That’s why he continued to get promotions. Go year by year and look at the roster situation, expectations and performances of his teams prior to Kentucky. Other than 2023 and 2026, I’d say every other Pope season showed promise as a program builder and coach on the rise.

We need to see more of that at Kentucky rather than the warts or his time will be short. I’m all about being fair either way.

 

[Snarks]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

That was a different time, before the transfer portal. Let’s see last year national champions….Cig year 2, Dusty may year 2. Can’t compare the past to rules right now.

 

[Cattorney]

This is the point.

Pope’s career at Kentucky so far, in my opinion, has not been good enough to warrant widely held confidence. That agreed with the fan poll I put out recently where almost everyone voted that they were in the middle on Pope, slightly confident or slightly doubtful. Everyone knows the warts, everyone knows the strengths.

As for his early career, he was a promising coach. That’s why he continued to get promotions. Go year by year and look at the roster situation, expectations and performances of his teams prior to Kentucky. Other than 2023 and 2026, I’d say every other Pope season showed promise as a program builder and coach on the rise.

We need to see more of that at Kentucky rather than the warts or his time will be short. I’m all about being fair either way.

How was he promising early in his career? Provide factual examples.

Break those seasons down for us. Why did the prior coach at Utah Valley win the conference, as did the coach after Pope. Why was Pope not able. How does that show promise. Please break it down!

I notice those absolute statements you alleged I made aren't present. Kind of like that breakdown on ad hominems from yesterday we never got. Sort of like this list of Pope accomplishments we won't be getting.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

How was he promising early in his career? Provide factual examples.

Break those seasons down for us. Why did the prior coach at Utah Valley win the conference, as did the coach after Pope. Why was Pope not able. How does that show promise. Please break it down!

I notice those absolute statements you alleged I made aren't present. Kind of like that breakdown on ad hominems from yesterday we never got. Sort of like this list of Pope accomplishments we won't be getting.

As for the first point, I’m not spending all day on that. Here’s a post about my view on the Mr. 63% argument. Within it is an overview on Pope’s early career.

https://www.on3.com/boards/threads/mr-63-why-context-is-inseparable-from-the-statistic.8878496/

As for the adhoms, I don’t feel you need my help there. I’m sure as a prosecutor, you very well know that series of posts of yours was riddled with them. It’s up to you to be good faith or not. If you want me to be equally as pedantic, I can be. Don’t see how that’s enjoyable though.

 

[Cattorney]

As for the first point, I’m not spending all day on that. Here’s a post about my view on the Mr. 63% argument. Within it is an overview on Pope’s early career.

https://www.on3.com/boards/threads/mr-63-why-context-is-inseparable-from-the-statistic.8878496/

As for the adhoms, I don’t feel you need my help there. I’m sure as a prosecutor, you very well know that series of posts of yours was riddled with them. It’s up to you to be good faith or not. If you want me to be equally as pedantic, I can be. Don’t see how that’s enjoyable though.

In other words, you can't.

Thanks for playing!


Also, did you honestly say you don't have all day to list some accomplishments, but then send a link to a thread where you probably spent days writing a novel?

 

[chroix]

I’d like an exemption for my ex please.

 

[chroix]

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

In other words, you can't.

Thanks for playing!


Also, did you honestly say you don't have all day to list some accomplishments, but then send a link to a thread where you probably spent days writing a novel?

Yes, there are times that I'm busy and times that I'm less busy. Last response to you though. "Thanks for playing", ad hominems, sending people tissues that disagree with you, laughing reactions, speaking in absolutes....you aren't even trying to be serious. Not worth the time.

 

[UKortho]

As for the first point, I’m not spending all day on that. Here’s a post about my view on the Mr. 63% argument. Within it is an overview on Pope’s early career.

https://www.on3.com/boards/threads/mr-63-why-context-is-inseparable-from-the-statistic.8878496/

As for the adhoms, I don’t feel you need my help there. I’m sure as a prosecutor, you very well know that series of posts of yours was riddled with them. It’s up to you to be good faith or not. If you want me to be equally as pedantic, I can be. Don’t see how that’s enjoyable though.

I thought (on vacation and can’t look) that Pope did worse than his predecessors (everywhere- including KY).

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

You are a shallow thinker with no comprehension of context or nuance.

Oh looky...Paul name calling. Such a surprise.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

Totally false but I do understand that someone as arrogant as you will continue to claim victory on this and all issues for that matter regardless of demonstrated facts. Trying to accuse me of being upset is baseless despite your utterly lame gif.

I about spit my PB and Honey Uncrustable on the monitor. You calling someone else arrogant? Lol. Glass houses.

 

[Cattorney]

Yes, there are times that I'm busy and times that I'm less busy. Last response to you though. "Thanks for playing", ad hominems, sending people tissues that disagree with you, laughing reactions, speaking in absolutes....you aren't even trying to be serious. Not worth the time.

So you're free enough to respond a few times, but having to provide examples you're sure exist is just too time consuming. But I'm the unserious one.

 

[Eagles_Ball_69]

I will copy and paste from this old thread once again.


Tom Izzo 33-28 54.1% after 2 seasons at MSU

Dean Smith 23-15 60.5% after 2 seasons at UNCheat

Billy Donovan 27-32 45.8% after 2 seasons at UF

Coach K 27-30 47.4% after 2 seasons at Puke

Nolan Richardson 31-30 50.8% after 2 at Arkansas

Danny Hurley 35-29 54.7% after 2 seasons at UConn

Todd Golden 40-29 58% after 2 seasons at UF

Scott Drew 17-40 30% after 2 seasons at Baylor

Tony Bennett 31-31 50% after 2 seasons at Virginia

Jay Wright 34-29 54% after 2 seasons at Villanova

Jim Calhoun 29-33 46.8% after 2 seasons at UConn

Gary Williams 35-26 57.4% after 2 seasons at Maryland

Lute Olson 31-27 53.4% after 2 seasons at Arizona

That's a few National Championship coaches (13 of 22) since 1991 (accounting for 21 titles) with a worse record their first 2 season at the schools that they won it at than Pope's first 2 seasons at UK.



and their previous jobs.


Smith and Izzo held no previous job.

Donovan 63.6% at Marshall

Hurley 63.2% at Wagner
57.9% at RI

Coach K 55.3% at Army

Todd Golden 61.3% at SF

Drew 64.5% at Valpo

Tony Bennett 67.6% Wash St

Jay Wright 58.9% at Hofstra

Jim Calhoun 64.4% Northeastern

Nolan Richardson 76.3% Tulsa

Gary Williams 63.2% American, 62.8% BC, 59% Ohio St

Lute Olson 64% Iowa


As I stated before and have thoroughly established numerous times Pope's career to this point in no way proves he can not win big in the future.

None in the NIL/Portal era. It's curious how you and the other Popettes always conveniently ignore that. Almost like it's done purposefully.