Kohler/UK/Zoom call tom

[ScWildcat3]

I agree with this ^.
Yes, NIL does change it somewhat, could come solely for the check, but I believe players good enough to play WANT to PLAY and not spend 35 of 40 minutes on the bench, and can get comparable (even if not quite as much) elsewhere where they would play significant minutes.

200min / 15players = 13.33 min/player. You KNOW the best 5 are going to play at least half the game, which drops the MPG to 10 for the remaining 10 guys. If those top 5 play 25mpg, that drops to 7.5mpg for the remaining 10. Even during the Platoon season (yeah, I know the Platoon only lasted 30-40% of the season due to Poythress injury) the top 5 averaged 25mpg. Same for Pitino's DEEP 96 team. If the 2nd best 5 play 10mpg, that leaves just 2.5mpg for the last 5.

I think adding Lil' Hawthorne was more a gesture & incentive to his brother (to stay this year & next year), while at the same time giving us a practice player, who know maybe by SR year can contribute.

Exactly. Rational thinking isn’t for everyone though.

 

[JonathanW2]

Sport*	OldScholarship Limit	NewRoster Limit	Potential Increase in Scholarships
Tumbling (W)	14	55	41
Baseball (M)	11.7	34	22.3
Basketball (M)	13	15	2

and yes it’s too late to transfer. The portal is closed. You don’t follow stuff closely I take it? (Not a shot at you just asking)

Baseball needed more 11.7 was ridiculous and an insult to America's Pastime.
Tumbling though...WTF!!! Sounds what your pre-schooler does at daycare.
I know, it's due to the 1 Men's sport that doesn't have women's matching sport, Football, which has a ton of scholarships (like 4-5 per position). I'm surprised schools haven't added Women's Flag Football, that could take 15-20 scholarships.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Agree with everything you said but...

Mark Mitchell averaged 18.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.6 assists for Missouri; Jaxon Kohler averaged 12.5 points and 8.9 rebounds for Michigan State; and Malachi Moreno averaged 7.8 points and 6.3 rebounds for Kentucky.

Seems we are putting a lot of eggs in the Moreno will have a big sophomore jump basket. Hope it works out as planned.

Not necessarily. I'm not personally of the mind that Moreno, as a sophomore, will be anything close to Mitchell just yet. I hold the view that Moreno likely makes a moderate sophomore jump into the 12ppg/8.5rpg area. However, he still has a lot of untapped potential and I do not think it is likely he becomes a lottery pick after next year. He still has room to grow beyond just next season. One day, I expect he can become a serious player in the SEC.

 

[JonathanW2]

Why? There have been other guys go from an SEC school to another SEC school. Just last year a guard went from Bama to Auburn, or was it the other direction.

 

[UKCowboys]

If that were to happen wouldn't that push Moreno to backup?

LMAO, not in a million years

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

I think adding Lil' Hawthorne was more a gesture & incentive to his brother (to stay this year & next year), while at the same time giving us a practice player, who know maybe by SR year can contribute.

Year 1 Pope loses PG1, PG2, emergency PG wing Robinson and has to start a SG who has never played PG at any Level Travis Perry (who also was hurt for the NCAA tournament). Rupp Rafters, we need depth at PG
Year 2 Pope loses PG2 (decommit before the season), PG1 and has to move everyone to different positions and rely on another SG who doesn't play point to run the offense. Rupp Rafters, we need depth at PG
Year 3 Pope over insulates himself by taking 5 point guards, Rupp Rafters, Argh we wasted roster slots on cigar players... That's what the cigar slots are for, break glass in case of extreme emergency.

The overwhelming amount of people who think we should just have lottery picks lined up to sit the bench for roster spots 12-15 all year and never see the floor in our fanbase, just because we are Kentucky, is mind-blowing.

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

Why? There have been other guys go from an SEC school to another SEC school. Just last year a guard went from Bama to Auburn, or was it the other direction.

The SEC has a rule in place that you have to have entered the transfer portal/made you intentions known to transfer prior to MAY 1st, if you end up transferring to another SEC school (for MBB). Since Mitchell didn't enter the portal back then, it technically violates rule and he wouldn't be allowed to transfer to another SEC school without the SEC approving. Just another wrinkle in the process.

 

[JonathanW2]

Agree with everything you said but...

Mark Mitchell averaged 18.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.6 assists for Missouri; Jaxon Kohler averaged 12.5 points and 8.9 rebounds for Michigan State; and Malachi Moreno averaged 7.8 points and 6.3 rebounds for Kentucky.

Seems we are putting a lot of eggs in the Moreno will have a big sophomore jump basket. Hope it works out as planned.

I've been saying for 8-9 months I expect Moreno to be 2nd team All-SEC level next year.
But stats need to be taken within context. Here are their per30min stats:
Mitchell 16.2pt, 4.6reb
Kohler 13.5pt, 9.6reb
Moreno 10.4pt, 8.4reb
And you would expect a FR to take on less of the scoring load than you would a SR!!!

As for Mitchell vs Kohler. Rebounding would be a big weakness for us next year. Kohler helps that, Mitchell doesn't.

 

[TheResistance]

 

[D1JA]

I've been saying for 8-9 months I expect Moreno to be 2nd team All-SEC level next year.
But stats need to be taken within context. Here are their per30min stats:
Mitchell 16.2pt, 4.6reb
Kohler 13.5pt, 9.6reb
Moreno 10.4pt, 8.4reb
And you would expect a FR to take on less of the scoring load than you would a SR!!!

As for Mitchell vs Kohler. Rebounding would be a big weakness for us next year. Kohler helps that, Mitchell does

Do you have their per 30 mins in the SEC and NCAA tourneys? As I recall he had a substantial drop in performance.

I've been saying for 8-9 months I expect Moreno to be 2nd team All-SEC level next year.
But stats need to be taken within context. Here are their per30min stats:
Mitchell 16.2pt, 4.6reb
Kohler 13.5pt, 9.6reb
Moreno 10.4pt, 8.4reb
And you would expect a FR to take on less of the scoring load than you would a SR!!!

As for Mitchell vs Kohler. Rebounding would be a big weakness for us next year. Kohler helps that, Mitchell doesn't.

Just curious, what kind of numbers do you predict from Moreno next year?

 

[Wildcatmenace]

Sir, this is UK. We don’t club people. We’d take them to keeneland and stage a horse riding accident like proper gentleman.

Touché

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Right? I want someone to show me from the rules and not out of their *** where “can’t put someone the practice squad or whatever” is legit and also means you can’t boot them off the team or move them to walk-on status. People talking about Pope having integrity: that only applies if Pope not only offered the ride but also guaranteed when he did it: “you will play on this roster this year and I stand behind that.” Zero reason to expect he would do that for anyone especially Zyon Hawthorne. It’s just business. It’s not too late for the kid to transfer somewhere else that wants to pay and play him if that’s what he wants to do in response. Pretty much any school will take a late application at this point, in addition to which I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the type of school that would want Zyon Hawthorne starting and would want to pay him is not gonna be full up with superstars one through fifteen even at this late date.

They know nothing. Of course UK can take anyone off the roster before the season starts.

Bylaw 17.2.1 — Roster Submission Deadline says:

“An institution must submit its roster for each sport … no later than the calendar day before the first contest … or December 1, whichever is earlier.

The NCAA subsequently clarified this point very explicitly in its September 2025 House-settlement Q&A:

Question C51: “Is there a restriction on the number of student-athletes … [who] may … participate … prior to the team’s roster submission deadline?”
Answer: “No. Roster limits do not apply until the day after a team’s deadline for roster submission.”

Suppose a team currently has 15 players participating in preseason activities but has not yet reached/submitted its NCAA roster deadline.
The NCAA rule does not lock those particular 15 players into the final roster. The school could, for example:
Player A is currently one of the 15 → Player A is removed → Player B takes that spot → the school submits its final 15.
That's permissible because the NCAA specifically says the roster limit doesn't apply until after the submission deadline.
There is an important distinction after the roster is submitted. Bylaw 17.2.5, “Roster Limit Replacements,” restricts replacing someone already included on the submitted roster. For basketball, one specified circumstance is a medically documented season-ending injury or illness occurring after submission but before the first contest used for championship selection.
So if the question you're trying to settle is:
“Can a Division I basketball program cut/remove one of its 15 players before the official roster deadline and put a different player in that spot?”
Yes. The strongest NCAA language to cite is Q&A C51: “Roster limits do not apply until the day after a team’s deadline for roster submission.”
NCAA official roster-limit legislation (Bylaw 17.2)
NCAA official House Settlement Q&A containing C51

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Kohler is just positioning for more money from BYU. He will now BYU what the UK offer was and see if they match it.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Year 1 Pope loses PG1, PG2, emergency PG wing Robinson and has to start a SG who has never played PG at any Level Travis Perry (who also was hurt for the NCAA tournament). Rupp Rafters, we need depth at PG
Year 2 Pope loses PG2 (decommit before the season), PG1 and has to move everyone to different positions and rely on another SG who doesn't play point to run the offense. Rupp Rafters, we need depth at PG
Year 3 Pope over insulates himself by taking 5 point guards, Rupp Rafters, Argh we wasted roster slots on cigar players... That's what the cigar slots are for, break glass in case of extreme emergency.

The overwhelming amount of people who think we should just have lottery picks lined up to sit the bench for roster spots 12-15 all year and never see the floor in our fanbase, just because we are Kentucky, is mind-blowing.

Cool straw man in your last paragraph. Who are a few of the "overwhelming amount of people who think we should just have lottery picks lined up to sit the bench for roster sports 12-15 all year?"

Name the posters. Since it's an "overwhelming amount," I'm sure it should be easy to name them.

What I see are a bunch of smart fans who see two major weaknesses: a healthy small forward and a rebounder/competent backup for Moreno. Kohler offers the latter. Tyson offers the former. No one expects either of these guys to ever be lottery picks.

 

[ScWildcat3]

They know nothing. Of course UK can take anyone off the roster before the season starts.

Bylaw 17.2.1 — Roster Submission Deadline says:




The NCAA subsequently clarified this point very explicitly in its September 2025 House-settlement Q&A:




Suppose a team currently has 15 players participating in preseason activities but has not yet reached/submitted its NCAA roster deadline.
The NCAA rule does not lock those particular 15 players into the final roster. The school could, for example:
Player A is currently one of the 15 → Player A is removed → Player B takes that spot → the school submits its final 15.
That's permissible because the NCAA specifically says the roster limit doesn't apply until after the submission deadline.
There is an important distinction after the roster is submitted. Bylaw 17.2.5, “Roster Limit Replacements,” restricts replacing someone already included on the submitted roster. For basketball, one specified circumstance is a medically documented season-ending injury or illness occurring after submission but before the first contest used for championship selection.
So if the question you're trying to settle is:
“Can a Division I basketball program cut/remove one of its 15 players before the official roster deadline and put a different player in that spot?”
Yes. The strongest NCAA language to cite is Q&A C51: “Roster limits do not apply until the day after a team’s deadline for roster submission.”
NCAA official roster-limit legislation (Bylaw 17.2)
NCAA official House Settlement Q&A containing C51

You are correct but not one coach in America is kicking a kid off the team for zero reason at this point.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

You are correct but not one coach in America is kicking a kid off the team for zero reason at this point.

You said ealier that coaches can't remove a player from rosters because that's "not how it works", and yet we're seeing that it does, in fact, work that way if the coaching staff wants it to.

And why does anyone have to be "kicked off?" St. John's isn't kicking off Freeman. He gets to rehab for a year, and almost as importantly, he still gets paid. He just doesn't count toward the 15 scholarships this year. UK could do the exact same thing.

 

[ScWildcat3]

You said ealier that coaches can't remove a player from roster because that's "not how it works", and yet we're seeing that it does, in fact, work that way if the coaching staff wants it to.

And why does anyone have to be "kicked off?" St. John's isn't kicking off Freeman. He gets to rehab for a year, and almost as importantly, he still gets paid. He just doesn't count toward the 15 scholarships this year. UK could do the exact same thing.

I said you can’t take kam off the 15 with injury without proven season ending status. Freeman has a season ending injury.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I said you can’t take kam off the 15 with injury without proven season ending status. Freeman has a season ending injury.

You actually can remove any player before submitting the final roster prior to the season. Injury or no injury. I just linked the actual rule. If Kam wanted to rehab while getting paid, what's the issue? If he wanted to play this season, I see it differently as I do think that would be unfair. But no one really knows if he'd be uncomfortable with a sale's pitch that sounded something like this: Hey, Kam! What if we pay you your $1-2 million this year while you get to fully rehab?

Kam could have one of two options. Apply under Bylaw 17.2.2.3 to see if he could get a waiver and thus have direct NIL through Kentucky. All that would take is for a doctor to say it is advisable to have Kam sit out the entire season. Additionally, no one really knows the precise extent of his timetable. He says he won't miss a game. We heard how optimistic other players were regarding their recoveries in recent years.

If the waiver failed, a third party could still pay Kam outside of Kentucky's direct NIL. It wouldn't take much to make it happen. Realocate some funds.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Some of our fans are worried about the PR of what something like this would do for portal recruiting (which is weird because you'd be paying a kid while he's fully rehabbing). I wonder if they remember how Pope's own daughters trolled the outgoing transfers this offseason and didn't seem to give a damn about the optics.

 

[ScWildcat3]

You actually can remove any player before submitting the final roster prior to the season. Injury or no injury. I just linked the actual rule. If Kam wanted to rehab while getting paid, what's the issue? If he wanted to play this season, I see it differently as I do think that would be unfair. But no one really knows if he'd be uncomfortable with a sale's pitch that sounded something like this: Hey, Kam! What if we pay you your $1-2 million this year while you get to fully rehab?

Kam could have one of two options. Apply under Bylaw 17.2.2.3 to see if he could get a waiver and thus have direct NIL through Kentucky. All that would take is for a doctor to say it is advisable to have Kam sit out the entire season. Additionally, no one really knows the precise extent of his timetable. He says he won't miss a game. We heard how optimistic other players were regarding their recoveries in recent years.

If the waiver failed, a third party could still pay Kam outside of Kentucky's direct NIL. It wouldn't take much to make it happen. Realocate some funds.

Exactly he has to be medically deemed out for season. It’s what I’ve said

 

[bnewt5]

Have to agree on this one, the Zyon add felt weird at the time, but now it’s just flat out stupid to use a spot on a practice player

Maybe had to be done to keep big brother

 

[bnewt5]

Agree with everything you said but...

Mark Mitchell averaged 18.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.6 assists for Missouri; Jaxon Kohler averaged 12.5 points and 8.9 rebounds for Michigan State; and Malachi Moreno averaged 7.8 points and 6.3 rebounds for Kentucky.

Seems we are putting a lot of eggs in the Moreno will have a big sophomore jump basket. Hope it works out as planned.

Moreno is not close to the player Mitchell or kohler due to age, experience. He also doesn't have the strength of either. Moreno must make large jump in all areas especially rebounding and blocked shots. If he doesn't uk will struggle

 

[bnewt5]

If that were to happen wouldn't that push Moreno to backup?

Doubt it
He was Pope's 1st recruit

 

[bnewt5]

The SEC has a rule in place that you have to have entered the transfer portal/made you intentions known to transfer prior to MAY 1st, if you end up transferring to another SEC school (for MBB). Since Mitchell didn't enter the portal back then, it technically violates rule and he wouldn't be allowed to transfer to another SEC school without the SEC approving. Just another wrinkle in the process.

But was the 5 for 5 passed by may 1?
If not then there would be no reason for a senior to enter the portal with no eligibility left.

 

[UKgrad22]

Maybe had to be done to keep big brother

Really hope that we didn’t have to offer a no star prospect a spot on the team to keep a guy who hasn’t played a single minute for us…I get that we’re banking on Braydon being something special, but he’s gonna have to eventually put out a product and early returns from practice this year still haven’t all been too promising

 

[UKortho]

Some of our fans are worried about the PR of what something like this would do for portal recruiting (which is weird because you'd be paying a kid while he's fully rehabbing). I wonder if they remember how Pope's own daughters trolled the outgoing transfers this offseason and didn't seem to give a damn about the optics.

Yesh, his daughters are as goofy and socially awkward as their doofus dad. They should stay out of it (Pope can embarrass us enough on his own).

 

[bnewt5]

Really hope that we didn’t have to offer a no star prospect a spot on the team to keep a guy who hasn’t played a single minute for us…I get that we’re banking on Braydon being something special, but he’s gonna have to eventually put out a product and early returns from practice this year still haven’t all been too promising

True, but at that time, think the only commit was from coach and son combo. Pope couldn't afford to let anyone else leave at that point.

 

[BlueSince92]

They know nothing. Of course UK can take anyone off the roster before the season starts.

Bylaw 17.2.1 — Roster Submission Deadline says:




The NCAA subsequently clarified this point very explicitly in its September 2025 House-settlement Q&A:




Suppose a team currently has 15 players participating in preseason activities but has not yet reached/submitted its NCAA roster deadline.
The NCAA rule does not lock those particular 15 players into the final roster. The school could, for example:
Player A is currently one of the 15 → Player A is removed → Player B takes that spot → the school submits its final 15.
That's permissible because the NCAA specifically says the roster limit doesn't apply until after the submission deadline.
There is an important distinction after the roster is submitted. Bylaw 17.2.5, “Roster Limit Replacements,” restricts replacing someone already included on the submitted roster. For basketball, one specified circumstance is a medically documented season-ending injury or illness occurring after submission but before the first contest used for championship selection.
So if the question you're trying to settle is:
“Can a Division I basketball program cut/remove one of its 15 players before the official roster deadline and put a different player in that spot?”
Yes. The strongest NCAA language to cite is Q&A C51: “Roster limits do not apply until the day after a team’s deadline for roster submission.”
NCAA official roster-limit legislation (Bylaw 17.2)
NCAA official House Settlement Q&A containing C51

Oh. Then we’re in better position than I was led to believe and won’t even need to go fax hunting. Thanks for actually answering FROM THE RULEBOOK!

 

[BlueSince92]

So many people have filled this damned thread with such an unbelievable amount of smoke based on daydreams. Triple thanks to @Son_Of_Saul for finally BRINGING THE RULEBOOK INTO IT which should have been the only thing ever claimed to be any type of answer.

 

[ScWildcat3]

It’s common sense. 15 spots. Idk why anyone can’t comprehend that.

 

[UKCowboys]

So many people have filled this damned thread with such an unbelievable amount of smoke based on daydreams. Triple thanks to @Son_Of_Saul for finally BRINGING THE RULEBOOK INTO IT which should have been the only thing ever claimed to be any type of answer.

And yet....you STILL refuse to answer the question that makes your and SOS rule book interpretations MUTE....Why would both guys come here when only one can start? THEY WOULD NOT. So what are yall arguing about?

 

[ScWildcat3]

And yet....you STILL refuse to answer the question that makes your and SOS rule book interpretations MUTE....Why would both guys come here when only one can start? THEY WOULD NOT. So what are yall arguing about?

No idea. Some people have zero logic. Same guys call pope awkward with recruits like they would fit in with 18 year old basketball players better. Idk why anyone needs a rule book to know what 15 max limit of players means anyways.

 

[Catlogic1552]

Kohler is just positioning for more money from BYU. He will now BYU what the UK offer was and see if they match it.

Of course. Zooms with UK, meets with BYU.
Lucy pulling the football away again. I never thought we had a chance anyway as I’ve gotten used to these recruiting charades.

 

[GoAndRunIsGoneAndDone]

Agree with everything you said but...

Mark Mitchell averaged 18.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.6 assists for Missouri; Jaxon Kohler averaged 12.5 points and 8.9 rebounds for Michigan State; and Malachi Moreno averaged 7.8 points and 6.3 rebounds for Kentucky.

Seems we are putting a lot of eggs in the Moreno will have a big sophomore jump basket. Hope it works out as planned.

I agree entirely. Right now, Kohler fills a need at the 4 and the 5 spot, but I think he starts at either place unless someone just flips a switch and plays way better than they ever have. It could happen, but unless Moreno is a beast of his former self, he gives us size and depth at the 5. Kohler gives us a starting 5 and depth at the 4. IMO, we desperately need quality depth at both positions. And I just don't think Moreno starts over Kohler without a huge leap in his play.

Worst nightmare for this team as of now is a Moreno injury. Best case is Moreno way exceeds last years play.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Reports are Kohler wants to act quickly in making his decision so I don’t think it should interfere with Mitchell, who still has to wait on approval from the courts. Kohler is a better fit for this roster, so I think it’s worth pursuing him. If we don’t get him, we don’t. But I think not going all in would be more troubling to me. Fingers crossed that we win with a big stick offer. If you don’t, you at least forced more BYU money to have been used and then you go all in on Mitchell. I really don’t see the problem here.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

And yet....you STILL refuse to answer the question that makes your and SOS rule book interpretations MUTE....Why would both guys come here when only one can start? THEY WOULD NOT. So what are yall arguing about?

No idea. Some people have zero logic. Same guys call pope awkward with recruits like they would fit in with 18 year old basketball players better. Idk why anyone needs a rule book to know what 15 max limit of players means anyways.

You guys are struggling to keep up. Straw man after straw man after straw man. I never said I wanted Mitchell and Kohler. Just one would do. If someone else said they wanted both, take that up with them, but treating these arguments like a monolith makes your arguments look weak.

Give me one of them and Cade Tyson.

Pope's offense needs a second shooter and I don't like relying on injured players for third year in a row. No offense to Kam.

 

[UKCowboys]

You guys are struggling to keep up. Straw man after straw man after straw man. I never said I wanted Mitchell and Kohler. Just one would do. If someone else said they wanted both, take that up with them, but treating these arguments like a monolith makes your arguments look weak.

Give me one of them and Cade Tyson.

Pope's offense needs a second shooter and I don't like relying on injured players for third year in a row. No offense to Kam.

LMAO. One and Cade huh?
Do we know Kam is out for the season? Why are you ****ing all over kids that chose to come and play for the Big Blue? Disgraceful

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

LMAO. One and Cade huh?
Do we know Kam is out for the season? Why are you ****ing all over kids that chose to come and play for the Big Blue? Disgraceful

You've got one pitch to throw, and it's a strawman every time, right down the middle.

It's easy to hit, too.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

LMAO. One and Cade huh?
Do we know Kam is out for the season? Why are you ****ing all over kids that chose to come and play for the Big Blue? Disgraceful

I disagree with Saul’s take here. I don’t know if adding two players of that magnitude is worth the risk. See my previous posts about this topic. But I really wish we could have talks about topics like this without any phrase being magnified to such a degree: on another board, I mentioned that Franck wasn’t reliable due to injuries and I caught a similar response as you’re providing about Kam. Being wary due to injuries isn’t maligning a player. I hope Franck and Kam have outstanding seasons but I think people being cautious about them is understandable.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

You've got one pitch to throw, and it's a strawman every time, right down the middle.

It's easy to hit, too.

Yup. And we as fans want to win something that matters. Or should anyways. If we can get cade and one of Mitchell or Kohler that makes that more likely.

This is semi pro ball now. The whole integrity and honor bs is garbage. Its about winning and always has been.