Kohler/UK/Zoom call tom

[ScWildcat3]

Have to agree on this one, the Zyon add felt weird at the time, but now it’s just flat out stupid to use a spot on a practice player

Y’all are crazy. No team is going to field 15 playable scholarship guys. Also even if we could get both where would they play?

 

[ScWildcat3]

Right? I want someone to show me from the rules and not out of their *** where “can’t put someone the practice squad or whatever” is legit and also means you can’t boot them off the team or move them to walk-on status. People talking about Pope having integrity: that only applies if Pope not only offered the ride but also guaranteed when he did it: “you will play on this roster this year and I stand behind that.” Zero reason to expect he would do that for anyone especially Zyon Hawthorne. It’s just business. It’s not too late for the kid to transfer somewhere else that wants to pay and play him. Pretty much any school will take a late application at this point, in addition to which I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the type of school that would want Zyon Hawthorne starting and would want to pay him are not gonna be full up with superstars one through fifteen even at this late date.

Sport*	OldScholarship Limit	NewRoster Limit	Potential Increase in Scholarships
Tumbling (W)	14	55	41
Baseball (M)	11.7	34	22.3
Basketball (M)	13	15	2

and yes it’s too late to transfer. The portal is closed. You don’t follow stuff closely I take it? (Not a shot at you just asking)

 

[BigBlueBubba]

Decision today ? Jack pilgram

Click bait.

 

[BlueSince92]

Sport*	OldScholarship Limit	NewRoster Limit	Potential Increase in Scholarships
Tumbling (W)	14	55	41
Baseball (M)	11.7	34	22.3
Basketball (M)	13	15	2

and yes it’s too late to transfer. The portal is closed. You don’t follow stuff closely I take it? (Not a shot at you just asking)

No disrespect but that says literally zero about whether you can boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status. Not a shot at you but if that’s all you have why even bother trying to use it this way? In fact, assuming that’s from the rulebook, if that’s all you could find in the rulebook on the subject it’s pretty strong evidence you CAN boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status.

 

[BBN9]

 

[UKCowboys]

Right? I want someone to show me from the rules and not out of their *** where “can’t put someone the practice squad or whatever” is legit and also means you can’t boot them off the team or move them to walk-on status. People talking about Pope having integrity: that only applies if Pope not only offered the ride but also guaranteed when he did it: “you will play on this roster this year and I stand behind that.” Zero reason to expect he would do that for anyone especially Zyon Hawthorne. It’s just business. It’s not too late for the kid to transfer somewhere else that wants to pay and play him if that’s what he wants to do in response. Pretty much any school will take a late application at this point, in addition to which I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the type of school that would want Zyon Hawthorne starting and would want to pay him is not gonna be full up with superstars one through fifteen even at this late date.

Why on Earth would Mitchell come here if UK signs Kohler? The answer is, he would not, under any circumstance, come here as a backup. Ludicrous

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

I’m so done with these sh*t . St. John’s and Louisville can add whoever the hell they want but we try and add one guy and the entire league hates it

 

[cornbreadnmilk]

But they are okay with Aberdeen going back to Florida from UK?

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

But they are okay with Aberdeen going back to Florida from UK?

EXACTLY somehow giving the #1 CBB team our starting pg/sg from last year isn’t overpowering

 

[WeWant9]

Something tells me if he was considering a place like Auburn, nobody would say jack. Sign him, or Kohler, and tell the rest of the league to suck it. It's time to throw our weight around, been playing the nice program for too long.

 

[BAsil2Tyler]

EXACTLY somehow giving the #1 CBB team our starting pg/sg from last year isn’t overpowering

Lace panty wearing losers...

 

[ScWildcat3]

No disrespect but that says literally zero about whether you can boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status. Not a shot at you but if that’s all you have why even bother trying to use it this way? In fact, assuming that’s from the rulebook, if that’s all you could find in the rulebook on the subject it’s pretty strong evidence you CAN boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status.

That’s the roster limit. A walk on is still on the roster. They did away with the different statuses. You get 15 spots. They can all be scholarship or not but only 15 spots. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.

is this better

Total Roster Cap: Programs cannot exceed 15 players total. This number includes both scholarship athletes and any traditional walk-ons

 

[ScWildcat3]

But they are okay with Aberdeen going back to Florida from UK?

Totally a made up narrative.

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

Totally a made up narrative.

Why does everything have to be something with you?

you literally take any opportunity no matter how small to show us how much you hate kentucky

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

Lace panty wearing losers...

Florida fans are lace panty wearing losers?? You wear lace panties?? I’m confused

 

[ScWildcat3]

Why does everything have to be something with you?

you literally take any opportunity no matter how small to show us how much you hate kentucky

Huh? How is saying the sec is against uk getting Mitchell mean I hate UK? There is plenty of sec to sec transfers that’s why I think it’s a made up narrative. We lost 3 to sec schools.

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

Huh? How is saying the sec is against uk getting Mitchell mean I hate UK? There is plenty of sec to sec transfers that’s why I think it’s a made up narrative. We lost 3 to sec schools.

It’s all your messy history. You think you can hide it but you cannot delete it

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

No disrespect but that says literally zero about whether you can boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status. Not a shot at you but if that’s all you have why even bother trying to use it this way? In fact, assuming that’s from the rulebook, if that’s all you could find in the rulebook on the subject it’s pretty strong evidence you CAN boot someone off the team or move them to walk-on status.

An NCAA member school cannot reduce or cancel a signed scholarship or financial aide package for any student during an academic term or prior to a signed academic year for athletic reasons, to include injuries (with some exceptions), performance level, or team needs. It is too late in the year to remove a player outside of some VERY tight situational exceptions, considering classes start on Monday for UK.

Some known examples where a "scholarship athlete" may be removed from the team, some allow the team to GAIN that scholarship back to use. Key word there is GAIN the scholarship back to use on someone else. Some do NOT give back that scholarship slot for the roster.

Academic or school violation (non-criminal) ineligibility: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Fraud or misrepresentation: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Serious Misconduct (outside criminal charges) or direct violation of University Code of Conduct: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Voluntary Quitting team or withdrawing from the University: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

The exceptions to that rule where the team gains back that scholarship immediately are:

Medical Retirement: A doctor declares an athlete unable to ever play collegiate sports again and the NCAA agrees with the decision, that player's remaining eligibility is removed and the school/team regains that scholarship. The school must continue to pay for their education and any agreed NIL though.

Medical Disqualification: A doctor declares an athlete unable to play during an upcoming school year, before classes start, and the NCAA agrees with the decision. *They must also have NCAA approval to pass the Multi-year and Core Guidelines clauses that protect returning athletes (ie Kam Williams in our case) who were under scholarship the previous year and whose roster spot and scholarship were guaranteed by the university. If the player is declared medically unable to participate for the entire year before classes begin, gets NCAA approval with the doctor's assessment, and gets NCAA approval to forgo the Multi-year and Core Guidelines Clause that protects returning athletes, then the school would get that scholarship back to use. I believe this is what St. John's did, transfer player who wouldn't be protected by the Multi-year and Core Guidelines clause because they weren't there on scholarship previously, hurt before classes officially started, deemed to be out all year by a medical doctor, and the NCAA agreed and granted the scholarship back to St. Johns.

No we can't kick Zyon off the team and give his spot to another guy. Though possible, it'd be threading the eye of a needle AND needing NCAA approval to sit Kam for a year and replace his spot. These athletes may be "professionals" now, but they are protected by a lot of regular student rules and guidelines that protect them just like a regular university student.

 

[ScWildcat3]

It’s all your messy history. You think you can hide it but you cannot delete it

Haha you got me confused with someone. It’s all good though.

 

[ThreeDogNight2]

Haha you got me confused with someone. It’s all good though.

Sure buddy

 

[ScWildcat3]

Sure buddy

Don’t remember one thing I said to suggest I hate UK but sure.

 

[JimboBBN]

Take him if he’s ready to commit. Even those of us, myself
Included, who want Mitchell more can understand not wanting to take the risk of waiting for him.

 

[BlueSince92]

Why on Earth would Mitchell come here if UK signs Kohler? The answer is, he would not, under any circumstance, come here as a backup. Ludicrous

Okay

 

[BlueSince92]

That’s the roster limit. A walk on is still on the roster. They did away with the different statuses. You get 15 spots. They can all be scholarship or not but only 15 spots. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.

is this better

Total Roster Cap: Programs cannot exceed 15 players total. This number includes both scholarship athletes and any traditional walk-ons

Partially addresses it. But looks like what @PastorofMuppets82 wrote does cover the whole thing thanks.

 

[TFCat11]

Take Kohler if he commits. If Mitchell was going to be eligible, it would have already happened.

I agree, but being Capt. Obvious here, if Mitchell was trying to get eligible to go back to Duke, Heaven and Earth would been moved days ago

None of us are kidding ourselves about the context here… Mitchell makes UK uncomfortably dangerous for the likes of Duke and others. Can’t have that now, can we.

 

[BlueSince92]

An NCAA member school cannot reduce or cancel a signed scholarship or financial aide package for any student during an academic term or prior to a signed academic year for athletic reasons, to include injuries (with some exceptions), performance level, or team needs. It is too late in the year to remove a player outside of some VERY tight situational exceptions, considering classes start on Monday for UK.

Some known examples where a "scholarship athlete" may be removed from the team, some allow the team to GAIN that scholarship back to use. Key word there is GAIN the scholarship back to use on someone else. Some do NOT give back that scholarship slot for the roster.

Academic or school violation (non-criminal) ineligibility: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Fraud or misrepresentation: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Serious Misconduct (outside criminal charges) or direct violation of University Code of Conduct: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

Voluntary Quitting team or withdrawing from the University: Once school year starts, player can lose scholarship but the team does not get to fill that scholarship until the following semester.

The exceptions to that rule where the team gains back that scholarship immediately are:

Medical Retirement: A doctor declares an athlete unable to ever play collegiate sports again and the NCAA agrees with the decision, that player's remaining eligibility is removed and the school/team regains that scholarship. The school must continue to pay for their education and any agreed NIL though.

Medical Disqualification: A doctor declares an athlete unable to play during an upcoming school year, before classes start, and the NCAA agrees with the decision. *They must also have NCAA approval to pass the Multi-year and Core Guidelines clauses that protect returning athletes (ie Kam Williams in our case) who were under scholarship the previous year and whose roster spot and scholarship were guaranteed by the university. If the player is declared medically unable to participate for the entire year before classes begin, gets NCAA approval with the doctor's assessment, and gets NCAA approval to forgo the Multi-year and Core Guidelines Clause that protects returning athletes, then the school would get that scholarship back to use. I believe this is what St. John's did, transfer player who wouldn't be protected by the Multi-year and Core Guidelines clause because they weren't there on scholarship previously, hurt before classes officially started, deemed to be out all year by a medical doctor, and the NCAA agreed and granted the scholarship back to St. Johns.

No we can't kick Zyon off the team and give his spot to another guy. Though possible, it'd be threading the eye of a needle AND needing NCAA approval to sit Kam for a year and replace his spot. These athletes may be "professionals" now, but they are protected by a lot of regular student rules and guidelines that protect them just like a regular university student.

Thanks. This actually has meat to it and it sounds like we’re stuck with Zyon.

Unless there was this fax…

 

[BBNinSCar]

IF Kohler signs at UK, what does Mitchell do?

 

[Wildcatmenace]

Can’t do that. Has to be a medically approved season ending injury for Kam which I doubt it would be. Also can’t put people on the practice squad or whatever. Get 15 spots and that’s it.

I’m sure someone can club Zyon in the locker room real quick. I’m totally kidding.

 

[true-blue1]

IF Kohler signs at UK, what does Mitchell do?

Is Kohler eligible to play?

 

[SenseMaker_Cats]

I’m sure someone can club Zyon in the locker room real quick! I’m totally kidding.

Sir, this is UK. We don’t club people. We’d take them to keeneland and stage a horse riding accident like proper gentleman.

 

[ScWildcat3]

Partially addresses it. But looks like what @PastorofMuppets82 wrote does cover the whole thing thanks.

No problem. It’s very cut and dry. 15 spots and that’s it.

 

[Beatle Bum]

Totally a made up narrative.

Yeah. I think that is unlikely. Mo to UK and then to LSU, Aberdeen to UK and back to UF, etc. Not even sure if Pilgrim even said it if he did, who are his sources.

 

[ftp000]

Pope treats recruiting like it’s still Covid.
Why can’t he and staff get on an airplane and actually go meet Kohler in person?

Stop it. He doesn't hesitate to go see players. He flew into a war zone! Things are different these days. Technology is a thing.

 

[PastorofMuppets82]

Another wrinkle making its way around is that the SEC has a May 1st declaration deadline for transferring within conference (transfer portal), and even if Mitchell wins his TRO for a fifth season, the SEC would have to approve him transferring to an SEC school. Wonder if the TRO is granted, if the SEC would enforce this and keep Mitchell from transferring within the SEC? Would specifically hurt Kentucky and not other conferences. May be even more of a reason UK is upping the push for Kohler, less hurdles to sign?

 

[OliverSimmonsTwinBrother]

Pope treats recruiting like it’s still Covid.
Why can’t he and staff get on an airplane and actually go meet Kohler in person?

Meeting Pope in person generally is when we start sliding down on the list for players .

 

[UKCowboys]

Okay

To be clear, do you think he would come here as a backup?

 

[UKCowboys]

IF Kohler signs at UK, what does Mitchell do?

Maybe that's the flip side of the coin for Pope this time. Kids and Agents can play one university against the other...but in this situation, he might be able to dangle one spot to two PFs to sign one

 

[D1JA]

I don’t disagree. I’m just saying all of the factors make it extremely unlikely. You’d have a real logjam with Moreno, Mitchell, Momcilovic, Kohler all being obvious starters with only three starting frontcourt spots. No big deal, right? Someone can just come off the bench. I just don’t think players of that caliber are going to be willing to do that without it causing problems. You’d then be pushing Kam, McBride, N’Diaye etc further down the rotation and that’s likely to cause more issues. You only have 200 minutes to give out, and while you want a talented team, you also need a cohesive team.

As for the money, we have no idea what is available there like you said. But if you are a big booster, why would you be willing to pay heavy money for another player even though adding the 16th guy has diminishing returns due to adding Kohler or Mitchell with the 15th slot, potentially upsetting the entire locker room and having to pull a scholarship from another player and force them off the roster? I don’t see it as feasible.

Agree with everything you said but...

Mark Mitchell averaged 18.3 points, 5.2 rebounds, and 3.6 assists for Missouri; Jaxon Kohler averaged 12.5 points and 8.9 rebounds for Michigan State; and Malachi Moreno averaged 7.8 points and 6.3 rebounds for Kentucky.

Seems we are putting a lot of eggs in the Moreno will have a big sophomore jump basket. Hope it works out as planned.

 

[D1JA]

Why on Earth would Mitchell come here if UK signs Kohler? The answer is, he would not, under any circumstance, come here as a backup. Ludicrous

If that were to happen wouldn't that push Moreno to backup?

 

[JonathanW2]

Y’all are crazy. No team is going to field 15 playable scholarship guys. Also even if we could get both where would they play?

I agree with this ^.
Yes, NIL does change it somewhat, could come solely for the check, but I believe players good enough to play WANT to PLAY and not spend 35 of 40 minutes on the bench, and can get comparable (even if not quite as much) elsewhere where they would play significant minutes.

200min / 15players = 13.33 min/player. You KNOW the best 5 are going to play at least half the game, which drops the MPG to 10 for the remaining 10 guys. If those top 5 play 25mpg, that drops to 7.5mpg for the remaining 10. Even during the Platoon season (yeah, I know the Platoon only lasted 30-40% of the season due to Poythress injury) the top 5 averaged 25mpg. Same for Pitino's DEEP 96 team. If the 2nd best 5 play 10mpg, that leaves just 2.5mpg for the last 5.

I think adding Lil' Hawthorne was more a gesture & incentive to his brother (to stay this year & next year), while at the same time giving us a practice player, who know maybe by SR year can contribute.