What do you think as regards SHU?
- Thread starter Halldan
- Start date
When I was a student in the 70s all tickets were free, you just had to pick them up in the Student Center.
I guess my first question is “Will anyone ask the students?” We constantly talk about surveying the students before instituting these programs, but it never happens.
And Mrs Ade (very nice woman) begged me to take a few more and give to friends.
She was one of a kind. Such a pleasant women.
I see both sides.
On one hand it can seem a little tone deaf to pay the players $10M but charge students $10 to come to the game. They are paying the 13th man, who will never see the light of day, more than the annual revenue from student ticket sales.
On the other hand, every little bit helps and we aren’t like most other schools that have multiple revenue streams (concessions, alcohol, parking, etc.). Many schools can offer students free tickets because they can make money off students once there - that’s not the case with seton hall. Our only source of rev is tickets. Also, at $10 price point it’s less about money and more about controlling inventory and preventing students from taking tickets and not showing to game.
On one hand it can seem a little tone deaf to pay the players $10M but charge students $10 to come to the game. They are paying the 13th man, who will never see the light of day, more than the annual revenue from student ticket sales.
On the other hand, every little bit helps and we aren’t like most other schools that have multiple revenue streams (concessions, alcohol, parking, etc.). Many schools can offer students free tickets because they can make money off students once there - that’s not the case with seton hall. Our only source of rev is tickets. Also, at $10 price point it’s less about money and more about controlling inventory and preventing students from taking tickets and not showing to game.
That last part is a major concerning and happens often. The students take as many tickets as possible when free (Blue/White scrimmage, etc) and then do not show up. It's been a major issue at Walsh for years.
So obviously even paying for Rock tickets they no show. Last season the school started to sell student tickets to the general population in Newark.
So obviously even paying for Rock tickets they no show. Last season the school started to sell student tickets to the general population in Newark.
My wife said the same thing when she was at Rhode Island. All tickets including football were free.
They already do through subsidies to the athletic department from the general fund.
Which is it? We get a report from the BOR that the school under Reilly’s leadership is breaking all kinds of admissions and fund raising records but we also need to factor in the significance of revenue from student tickets which is immaterial in the grand scheme.
If students don’t show up even when the school gives them free, maybe someone should ASK THEM “WHY”.
If students don’t show up even when the school gives them free, maybe someone should ASK THEM “WHY”.
They can probably set up a system to distribute tickets starting one hour before the game and only at the arena.
Didn't Felt discuss what the school is doing in our Trove interview?
Felt: This has been a really big focus. I talk about it a lot with our staff. Last year, student attendance was a concern, and it still is. We had a really successful year on the court, and having fewer students at the games affects our program. We all want that atmosphere in the building, and students play as big a part in it as anybody. In the spring, we partnered with the Stillman School of Business’ marketing research program. As soon as the season ended, we created a soft focus group to get the ball rolling, and we’ve gotten helpful feedback. This fall, the program is going to kickstart a more intensive, semester-long focus group to investigate this issue. We’ll continue to do everything we can to draw our students to the games, but we have to get into the weeds to figure out what the issue is. This is not exclusively a Seton Hall problem. Attendance across the country is down. That’s not an excuse for us, but we have to figure out what factors lend to the problem. We’re dedicated to shake up our efforts if that’s what’s necessary and do everything we can to attract our students back to the Prudential Center.
I would make the tickets free. I think we have to be willing to try different tactics to try and get students out and at least this removes at least one barrier.
Georgetown had to do this because its attendance is embarrassing. Something like 5K last year on average in a 20K arena.
Our attendance isn't good, but it isn't at Gtown level.
My concern would be taking away revenue generation but, probably more so, that giving student tickets away for free is going to result in a ton of "no shows" and empty seats in each area behind the basket.
Single game student tickets should be free. Throw out an optional to buy student season tickets for those who want to guarantee a seat for every game without going through the free ticket distribution process.
It comes down to recognizing what the students are to the college game and what they're not.
They're NOT: a significant source of revenue. students don't have a lot of free spending money, so that $10-20 / game or whatever it costs now is worth more to them than it is to SHU. And free entertainment is big in their financial state.
They ARE:
It comes down to recognizing what the students are to the college game and what they're not.
They're NOT: a significant source of revenue. students don't have a lot of free spending money, so that $10-20 / game or whatever it costs now is worth more to them than it is to SHU. And free entertainment is big in their financial state.
They ARE:
- a FUTURE source of significant revenue - pro sports teams would kill for leads this hot. For the most part they spend 4 years engaging with Seton Hall every day, with athletics touch points included, and this is what's shaping what their future emotional and financial relationship with SHU will look like. Athletics should focus on investing in, rather than monetizing students relationship with SHU basketball in particular. Give them the best possible experience with SHU athletics while they're students so that when they enter the workforce they're more likely to consider SHU hoops for their newfound discretionary spending ability. Charging for student tickets generates peanuts relative to their potential future spend and is a potential barrier between students and a strong potential touchpoint with SHU athletics.
- A significant part of the game presentation - a large and engaged student section massively improves the atmosphere at games. It's a unique part of college sports that, when good, beats any sort of canned game presentation and helps everyone have a better time, which in turn makes them more likely to come back. It helps make for a better product, which sells more non-student tickets, improves sponsorship values and in general elevates SHU hoops as a business.
What's our average student section attendance for 16 games? 500 students? At $10 a ticket that's $80K, even at 1,000 students per game that's only $160K. Don't get me wrong, that's a lot of money but when you're paying practice players $200K and $300K is $80K making a difference? If it is, we should make smarter roster decisions and not hire a 13th or 14th man who isn't impacting the program in any meaningful way. That would save 5X the amount of money we make on student tickets.
Having said that I don't think the $10 is the barrier to entry here. It's a culture issue, not a money issue.
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Same thing in those ancient times of the 60"s. You picked up your ticket and you had the added benefit of getting an opportunity to schmooze with Jean Ade.
Um what? Hey students would you rather pay for your tickets or have them be free? Speak now or we’ll never know.
The Georgetown situation is fascinating to me. Logistically they have never had it easy since they joined the Big East. In the glory days they played at USAir/Capital Center, all the way in Largo, 10 miles or so east on the other side of town, which can take at least 35-45 minutes to get through from campus on a good day. They play in Chinatown DC in downtown now, which is still not ideal but much closer. Infamously there is no direct metro at Georgetown to take students. Even back in 2016 when I saw Whitehead etc. play there, I remember being struck on how anemic student and overall attendance was for a program that at that time was coming off a run of successful seasons.
The question isn't would you prefer to pay or have free tickets. The question is, does the price of tickets prevent you from going to the game?
A big part of the problem is that we don't play an exciting brand of basketball. It's not appealing to a casual fan. Humor me for a moment...think about this from a casual fan/student's perspective
Walk 15 minutes to campus, take a 25-minute bus ride to downtown Newark, watch a brutally painful offense struggle to score 60 points, team is non-competitive against good competition in recent history (3-22 vs top 6 teams in the league past two seasons), 25-minute bus ride home, walk 15 minutes home. That's like a 4-hour time commitment to do something that really isn't fun.
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It’s not about paying or not paying for tickets. Our student attendance is bi-polar and generally poor. Felt says they are doing Focus Groups. What will they learn? What will we hear about the feedback? What will they actually do?
The school should start with promoting a culture of giving back from the first day of freshman class. Schools with high giving rates have that as a fundamental strategy. Students don’t have much to give while they’re students, but you need to plant the seed.
My guess is come February, we’ll be having the same conversation….again.
You forgot the part about cheering for mercenary professionals that will stick around for one year.
So now you want freshman to start donating?!?! While attending school AND paying outrageous tuition? Oof, what world do you live in?
That's definitely an issue. All schools to a certain degree are operating on the one-and-done mercenary model, but no program in the country has been hit harder by this era than Seton Hall. Whether it's a Sha issue or an institutional issue is TBD, but it's an issue.
Big East basketball is in my blood. I was raised on it. I have always been a college basketball fanatic and probably always will be, but if this were the model 35 years ago, I don't think I would care much for cbb.
To get free tickets, you give a $10 credit card deposit that will only be charged if you no-show. 
I don't have to speak for 85. But that's not what he said.
"promoting a culture of giving back" does not mean having students give money. It could be through community service, servant leadership, donation drives, creating a culture and community.
Which then leads to, eventually, graduates giving back.
You didn’t read my message. I specifically said students can’t give much ifanything financially. But you can instill a culture of giving. Look at what Penn State does with Thon. The students give time and assist in fund raising. They raise millions every year.
I live in a world that understands how successful fund raising works.
I guess that’s fair, but I’m sure they’re also doing that in some areas already.
However, no amount of fundraising is ever going to significantly change the university or basketball team. The more you bring in, the more the costs have already risen along with it. Helpful sure, but to act like it’s a cure-all just isn’t reality.
Also once you create a culture and community it snowballs. People spend more time involved in campus and school events, people make more friends, people get invited to things they may never have thought of doing before like going to games (soccer, basketball, etc).
Culture builds culture. Community builds community.
I disagree. Free or $10 student tickets don’t move the needle. Increasing the giving rate by 100 basis points is huge.
The no-show issue fixes itself when demand gets high enough for it to matter by offering tickets to those with high show rates first and those with lesser ones may miss out, especially for the highest demand games. Until then, is a claimed ticket that doesn't show any worse than an unclaimed ticket?
a
I agree they don't know the 3-22 record vs teams with a pulse, but even someone with elementary basketball knowledge knows watching a team struggle to score isn't fun. The kids know the team stinks and just going to one game leaves you with a feeling of "that was painful to watch."
I've said in the past that you start by incentivizing large campus groups to attend. They have numbers and they have ability to influence. Our Greek Nights always draw good student attendance. Every student group, frat, sorority, etc. does fundraising and volunteering. You link coming to games and getting others to come as a way to raise money for their group or their charity. Let the groups work for you.
Every group gets a Coupon Code. Every student who uses that Code to get a ticket and show up for a game gets added to that group's total. At the end of the season, the group's get Cash donated to their group or charity based on how many referrals they produced. You could probably find corporate sponsors for this who would be happy to give money to charities in the name of student groups also. Or let the groups compete with each other, each game will be 2 competing groups, whichever gets the most students to attend wins cash.
Do something similar with individual students who are popular influencers on campus or on social media. "Hire" them to produce TikTok videos with players or coaches doing the latest trend and promoting upcoming home games. Do "Day in the life" of a SH basketball player videos or raw game reaction videos. Give them money for every student who attends using their coupon code. Hire popular influencers to lead a singalong or dance during the game. Have you ever seen how many Providence girls/young women show up just to sing along to Taylor Swift songs?
Here's some more ideas:
1) Have a contest at games for students to produce TikTok videos. Whoever gets the most views or gets the most students to attend the next game win cash money.
2) Set up photo booths or 360 degree display stands for students to create videos at games.
3) Have theme dress up nights selected by the students. 90s night, dress like a Pirate night, dress like a celebrity, etc.
4) Gameify Attendance for students. Create a mobile student app that awards points for various activities or contributions to Campus life. Going to a basketball game gives you points, same with a soccer game, etc. Creating a Instagram or TikTok video to promote an event gets you points, buying things at the bookstore gives you points, donating your time to a charity gives you points, bring a friend to a game gives you points, etc.... These points can be used for discounts for food or swag or for moving up in housing lotteries, or for prime campus parking spots or whatever matters to students.
5) Make the Games Events - Get popular influencers or large groups to host pregame parties with food and beer in the parking lot.
6) Create an in-game Fantasy Basketball or Prediction game app. Students pick the final score or choose the leading scorer, rebounder, etc. Predict things like will the Pirates shut out the opposition for 4 minutes or something else predictive that ties the students to the game interactively.
7) Create Custom AR Filters at the games that allow students to dress up in Seton Hall uniforms or cheerleader uniforms and make TikTok or Instagram videos.
8) Create a real Class in the Business school or Sports Marketing school specifically tasked with driving student attendance. All aspects of the class and the grade are based on finding creative ways to market the games to students and filling the student sections.
Every group gets a Coupon Code. Every student who uses that Code to get a ticket and show up for a game gets added to that group's total. At the end of the season, the group's get Cash donated to their group or charity based on how many referrals they produced. You could probably find corporate sponsors for this who would be happy to give money to charities in the name of student groups also. Or let the groups compete with each other, each game will be 2 competing groups, whichever gets the most students to attend wins cash.
Do something similar with individual students who are popular influencers on campus or on social media. "Hire" them to produce TikTok videos with players or coaches doing the latest trend and promoting upcoming home games. Do "Day in the life" of a SH basketball player videos or raw game reaction videos. Give them money for every student who attends using their coupon code. Hire popular influencers to lead a singalong or dance during the game. Have you ever seen how many Providence girls/young women show up just to sing along to Taylor Swift songs?
Here's some more ideas:
1) Have a contest at games for students to produce TikTok videos. Whoever gets the most views or gets the most students to attend the next game win cash money.
2) Set up photo booths or 360 degree display stands for students to create videos at games.
3) Have theme dress up nights selected by the students. 90s night, dress like a Pirate night, dress like a celebrity, etc.
4) Gameify Attendance for students. Create a mobile student app that awards points for various activities or contributions to Campus life. Going to a basketball game gives you points, same with a soccer game, etc. Creating a Instagram or TikTok video to promote an event gets you points, buying things at the bookstore gives you points, donating your time to a charity gives you points, bring a friend to a game gives you points, etc.... These points can be used for discounts for food or swag or for moving up in housing lotteries, or for prime campus parking spots or whatever matters to students.
5) Make the Games Events - Get popular influencers or large groups to host pregame parties with food and beer in the parking lot.
6) Create an in-game Fantasy Basketball or Prediction game app. Students pick the final score or choose the leading scorer, rebounder, etc. Predict things like will the Pirates shut out the opposition for 4 minutes or something else predictive that ties the students to the game interactively.
7) Create Custom AR Filters at the games that allow students to dress up in Seton Hall uniforms or cheerleader uniforms and make TikTok or Instagram videos.
8) Create a real Class in the Business school or Sports Marketing school specifically tasked with driving student attendance. All aspects of the class and the grade are based on finding creative ways to market the games to students and filling the student sections.
With your ideas involving social media, etc
All student orgs have their own social media if student orgs go to games as groups tie in the game-ification with the student orgs as well. This creates a FOMO feeling for members of the club etc who didn't go when they watch the stories posted by their friends and the clubs they are part of. Maybe they rethink it and go to the next game, this is how you grow things "organically".
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