Other notable results and news

[Wrestleknownothing]

We’ve already lost Olympic weights. That stuff will continue if these highly visible guys don’t try and promote the sport.

I do not believe the Olympic organizers care in the least what happens with college wrestling. It is only freestyle that matters to them and it is hard to knock a coach who has been a consistent enabler of freestyle pursuits during the college season. In this regard, Sanderson's approach to scheduling is helpful for Olympic promotion.

Yes, and part of how you do that is make cool events that entice excitement.

My poorly made point is that it is hard to know the motivations when something is both self-serving and good for the sport. When someone does something that is good for the sport and against their own self-interest then I could be pursuaded. We see this in other ways too. A lot of people on these boards bemoan the coming downfall of college athletics due to NIL and free transfers at the same time they celebrate their own teams new additions via the transfer portal.

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

Like VA tech in Stillwater this year it's not a one way street. Both coaches will do what's best for them they get paid to win in March not grow the sport. I know fans don't like that but it's the truth.

Are you insinuating we are ducking them?

 

[Air_Thurman]

It's a generic phrase people use when they want something in wrestling. Growing the sport is adding more youth wrestlers.

This sentiment is frankly going to kill the sport long-term. It is a reason these guys wrestle in empty gyms across the world unless it is associated with college wrestling. Imagine football or basketball thinking the only way to ever grow and gain popularity was to cater to people who played on a youth level. Imagine the viewership for the Super Bowl if it was only targeted towards people who played football when they were nine.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Don't kid yourselves into thinking Taylor said what he said to grow the sport. This whole grow the sport stuff is silliness.

DT is trying to bring more eyeballs to the sport and make it more engaging. He is doing the work. National Duals, wrestling tough matches across the country, Stilly Boys, how our home duals have become a spectacle - it's all about growing the fanbase. Does this all help OSU too? Of course. Win/wins are a good thing.

 

[Corby2]

Are you insinuating we are ducking them?

Well you decided to not wrestle them because you might wrestle them at the NDI

 

[chasepollard]

Well you decided to not wrestle them because you might wrestle them at the NDI

No, the date change at NDI encumbered the plan. The conference gives you that portion of the schedule and you have to try and fit everything else in. You know that scheduling is very difficult.

It didn't work out, but I think they wanted to. Bo Bassett is a draw and the matchups would frenzy GIA.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

How bout that Iowa dual last year breaking the regular season viewership record? Cant tell me that wasnt good for the sport? More eyes on wrestling is always good.

That being said I dont think it happens. Ever.

Also I was talking to a great psu guy last night (hard to imagine I know) and he made a great point. He thinks Covid was instrumental in Cael slowing down on their schedule. If you think about it before Covid Cael sent guys to the scuffle and overall they sought out more competition. Covid hits and they dont compete much and they have 4 champs. This guy thinks Cael saw how his guys felt and the results and decided less was better. Yes Iowa won that year but it was quite possibly the catalyst for the model we see from psu now.

 

[driad]

Well you decided to not wrestle them because you might wrestle them at the NDI

 

[Corby2]

No, the date change at NDI encumbered the plan. The conference gives you that portion of the schedule and you have to try and fit everything else in. You know that scheduling is very difficult.

It didn't work out, but I think they wanted to. Bo Bassett is a draw and the matchups would frenzy GIA.

So the same could've happened with Penn St as well. So why is everyone getting on Cael . Did Oklahoma st ask Penn St ?

 

[Air_Thurman]

So the same could've happened with Penn St as well. So why is everyone getting on Cael . Did Oklahoma st ask Penn St ?

No they aren't remotely the same thing and you know this.

 

[chasepollard]

So the same could've happened with Penn St as well. So why is everyone getting on Cael . Did Oklahoma st ask Penn St ?

Quit being obtuse.

We both agree that scheduling is hard and doesn't always work out. Where it's especially bad for us is that Iowa and uO are on the same away schedule. I don't know that either of those duals aren't ever on the schedule.

So really, with 3 locked in dates (NDI, Iowa and uO) coupled with the conference schedule...it's not easy to make it all fit.

I have no clue if Dave called Cael, not one single clue. It would be cool to see it, but we may have to abandon that desire. It kinda makes March a little more fun with the unknown factor.

 

[Corby2]

Quit being obtuse.

We both agree that scheduling is hard and doesn't always work out. Where it's especially bad for us is that Iowa and uO are on the same away schedule. I don't know that either of those duals aren't ever on the schedule.

So really, with 3 locked in dates (NDI, Iowa and uO) coupled with the conference schedule...it's not easy to make it all fit.

I have no clue if Dave called Cael, not one single clue. It would be cool to see it, but we may have to abandon that desire. It kinda makes March a little more fun with the unknown factor.

I have always said fans don't understand how difficult scheduling is. You also have contracts filling some of those dates. Most teams have 1-2 open slots a year. And you gotta hope you can find a team who has the same dates open . And the staffs are doing it not the athletic departments. Scheduling D1 wrestling duals is a job in itself. And yes I was being obtuse

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

Well you decided to not wrestle them because you might wrestle them at the NDI

this one of your sources or speculation…I find it hard to believe the guy that is laser focused on home dual atmosphere and attendance tuned down a likely sell out

 

[ionel]

So the same could've happened with Penn St as well.

Penn St is going to NDI now?

 

[Corby2]

Penn St is going to NDI now?

Same meaning maybe the dates didn't line up. And did DT ask Cael to dual? No one has said that's actually happened

 

[OAMC99]

Yes, and part of how you do that is make cool events that entice excitement.

Exactly! How dumb are people?!? The biggest dual in college wrestling history won't attract more young wrestling fans?!? What?

 

[OAMC99]

DT is trying to bring more eyeballs to the sport and make it more engaging. He is doing the work. National Duals, wrestling tough matches across the country, Stilly Boys, how our home duals have become a spectacle - it's all about growing the fanbase. Does this all help OSU too? Of course. Win/wins are a good thing.

Exactly again! How in the world is creating what will be the biggest/most hyped dual in college wrestling history be a bad thing?!? Are people absolutely nuts??? It will be the most watched dual ever. It will be sold-out in an hour. It will be absolutely awesome no matter the outcome.

 

[Corby2]

Exactly again! How in the world is creating what will be the biggest/most hyped dual in college wrestling history be a bad thing?!? Are people absolutely nuts??? It will be the most watched dual ever. It will be sold-out in an hour. It will be absolutely awesome no matter the outcome.

DT does what he feels will best grow the Oklahoma st brand and recruiting he's not scheduling events saying this will help "grow wrestling" . Not many coaches are. It's a phrase that's been used forever and wrestling is still a fringe sport. Do you know was Penn st asked to dual ? No one has been able to answer that yet many are acting like Cael is ducking

 

[chasepollard]

DT does what he feels will best grow the Oklahoma st brand and recruiting he's not scheduling events saying this will help "grow wrestling" . Not many coaches are. It's a phrase that's been used forever and wrestling is still a fringe sport. Do you know was Penn st asked to dual ? No one has been able to answer that yet many are acting like Cael is ducking

I think that is what you are looking to assert to the "narrative of Oklahoma State."

You can get that answer better than most people here and the people here that can aren't going to engage you on it.

The rest of the post, I can be on board with. The growth of the sport is important, but incidental to what they are paid to do, which is elevate the Program under their control.
*Wrestling is growing again in Oklahoma and it is not a coincidence.

 

[Air_Thurman]

DT does what he feels will best grow the Oklahoma st brand and recruiting he's not scheduling events saying this will help "grow wrestling" . Not many coaches are. It's a phrase that's been used forever and wrestling is still a fringe sport. Do you know was Penn st asked to dual ? No one has been able to answer that yet many are acting like Cael is ducking

Look at PSU's nonconference schedule and look at OSU's the past 5-10 years. Cael has obviously made the decision not to schedule hard non conference duals. You think he is itching to wrestle OSU but no one has asked him? Do you really think DT is going to sit in a press conference saying "anytime, anywhere with PSU" if he hadn't tried to make it happen?

Cael doesn't owe anyone to make this happen but stop with this. The dual doesn't happen because Cael doesn't want it to happen. Full stop.

 

[HopkinsPoke]

1. Cael does what’s good for Cael and doesn’t give 2 rips about anything else

2. Wrestling PSU would set records in the sport.

3. “Growing the sport” makes sense to us from our perspective but it is also a self serving narrative that others roll their eyes at.

4. Cael has zero reasons to wrestle us. This is a bad analogy but it’s like how we feel about playing TU in football most years. “It’s good for the state etc”.. We win, we’re supposed to. We lose, they get a narrative, we get embarrassed.

All of this can be true at the same time. PSU probably won’t ever wrestle us but if they do it’ll be after we win the national championship and Cael needs a dual to change narrative.

 

[Corby2]

I think that is what you are looking to assert to the "narrative of Oklahoma State."

You can get that answer better than most people here and the people here that can aren't going to engage you on it.

The rest of the post, I can be on board with. The growth of the sport is important, but incidental to what they are paid to do, which is elevate the Program under their control.
*Wrestling is growing again in Oklahoma and it is not a coincidence.

Growing the sport happens more locally then it does nationally. I agree Oklahoma is growing and it's been happening for awhile and hiring DT threw gas on it . It's started happening during covid

 

[ionel]

2. Wrestling PSU would set records in the sport.

Records ... what records?

 

[chasepollard]

Growing the sport happens more locally then it does nationally. I agree Oklahoma is growing and it's been happening for awhile and hiring DT threw gas on it . It's started happening during covid

No, that’s not really accurate. It might’ve had an uptick, but it was a smoldering fire. The view was on the sport as a whole from the people around here that could help.

Now, it’s a thing here and programs are adding Women’s and to a smaller degree, Men’s W

So, imagine what would happen if Cael, TnT and other big names in the sport ran media and involvement in a similar fashion. The sport would really, really grow in multiple areas.

It’s a micro moving the macro scenario.

 

[OAMC99]

This isn't an Oklahoma State bias deal. I mean of course we are biased but if there was another program out there with the equivalent current qualifications and history of OSU coached by an alum of Penn State, I think we would all be screaming for that dual as well, as wrestling fans. This is honestly astonishing to me. In what sport is it not fun to watch #1 go against #2? Those are the dream matchups. You should seek to create those whenever possible. Especially in a sport like wrestling that is fighting for viewership and funding.

 

[chasepollard]

This isn't an Oklahoma State bias deal. I mean of course we are biased but if there was another program out there with the equivalent current qualifications and history of OSU coached by an alum of Penn State, I think we would all be screaming for that dual as well, as wrestling fans. This is honestly astonishing to me. In what sport is it not fun to watch #1 go against #2? Those are the dream matchups. You should seek to create those whenever possible. Especially in a sport like wrestling that is fighting for viewership and funding.

Title fights are very compelling…it’s human nature to want it.

But it has to make sense for the Champ or it doesn’t happen.

 

[Corby2]

No, that’s not really accurate. It might’ve had an uptick, but it was a smoldering fire. The view was on the sport as a whole from the people around here that could help.

Now, it’s a thing here and programs are adding Women’s and to a smaller degree, Men’s W

So, imagine what would happen if Cael, TnT and other big names in the sport ran media and involvement in a similar fashion. The sport would really, really grow in multiple areas.

It’s a micro moving the macro scenario.

The top coaches aren't the reason the sport doesn't grow .

 

[chasepollard]

The top coaches aren't the reason the sport doesn't grow .

So you disagree with the post, or do you just live to be the antagonist?

Who’s going to grow it/help it? The guy nobody knows with no avenue to grow it? The guy that everyone knows who has the avenue?

Do you think David would rather take the money that it takes to run each dual and put it in the coffers instead of give the fans something? Generate interest?

So to your point, there’s plenty of reasons. Those guys could help, but they don’t. Is that their job? Nope. Should they do it? Depends, I guess.

 

[ionel]

The top coaches aren't the reason the sport doesn't grow .

Who killed National Duals?

 

[Old Number Nine]

Penn State Cocaine Bust

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the Wrestling team but...

 

[Corby2]

So you disagree with the post, or do you just live to be the antagonist?

Who’s going to grow it/help it? The guy nobody knows with no avenue to grow it? The guy that everyone knows who has the avenue?

Do you think David would rather take the money that it takes to run each dual and put it in the coffers instead of give the fans something? Generate interest?

So to your point, there’s plenty of reasons. Those guys could help, but they don’t. Is that their job? Nope. Should they do it? Depends, I guess.

Every D1 coach should try to grow it locally and statewide. The name doesn't matter to the locals and those in the state. The same people saying we need to grow the sport would be complaining when the Oklahoma St vs Penn st dual is on BTN and many would need to get a subscription

 

[chasepollard]

Every D1 coach should try to grow it locally and statewide. The name doesn't matter to the locals and those in the state. The same people saying we need to grow the sport would be complaining when the Oklahoma St vs Penn st dual is on BTN and many would need to get a subscription

Good point…those guys could give a little too.

 

[ionel]

Every D1 coach should try to grow it locally and statewide. The name doesn't matter to the locals and those in the state. The same people saying we need to grow the sport would be complaining when the Oklahoma St vs Penn st dual is on BTN and many would need to get a subscription

OSU has wrestled plenty of times when broadcast on BTN. What was John doing when trying to help save Stanford wrestling ... was that local?

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Penn State Cocaine Bust

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the Wrestling team but...

But what?

 

[Air_Thurman]

The top coaches aren't the reason the sport doesn't grow .

Wrestling doesn't have owners, commissioners, and TV partners heavily invested in making sure the sport is healthy and growing. If people like John Smith, DT, Cael, the Brands, Tom Ryan, etc. don't worry about the growth of the sport who should? In wrestling, college coaches are the most powerful, visible ambassadors the sport has.

If college coaches (not just Cael) don't care about anything but the National Tournament its not great for the long term health of the sport.

 

[Corby2]

OSU has wrestled plenty of times when broadcast on BTN. What was John doing when trying to help save Stanford wrestling ... was that local?

My point is you start locally and most fans miss that point and think the big dual that everyone wants to see is what really grows the sport. John had his opinion on RTCs had he been involved that to me would've "grown wrestling" more then any one dual would

 

[Corby2]

Wrestling doesn't have owners, commissioners, and TV partners heavily invested in making sure the sport is healthy and growing. If people like John Smith, DT, Cael, the Brands, Tom Ryan, etc. don't worry about the growth of the sport who should? In wrestling, college coaches are the most powerful, visible ambassadors the sport has.

If college coaches (not just Cael) don't care about anything but the National Tournament its not great for the long term health of the sport.

I think they all "worry about it" but it's not top priority. ADs aren't paying them bonuses for growing wrestling. They get paid to win in March and that's where bonuses come from. Winning in March will always be the #1 goal . Not sure why people assume coaches don't want to help the sport grow they do it's just not the top priority. Wrestling fans like to use the term grow the sport when they want something.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

All this talk is good for discussion but none of this has anything to do with Cael not wanting to dual OSU. Its not about him worrying about whats best for his team or because he's scared or any of that stuff.

Cael will never dual OSU because he still currently very much hates DT for leaving State College. Cael is a sociopath and I dont see that rift going away.

 

[chasepollard]

But what?

PSU guys do generally have monster gas tanks…

 

[newguy123]

To think that PSU vs OSU wouldn't be a net positive for wrestling is absolutely bananas. I don't care how you talk around it, it would rule. Storylines, hype, eyeballs, rivalries, emotions, teacher vs mentor, I mean it has everything you've ever seen in any sports movie. If Cael doesn't want to do it because he has big feelings that's fine, but I can't imagine someone like John Smith or the Brands bros being unwilling to wrestle their offshoots' teams for fear of snapping a win streak.