The New Lounge

[KDSTONE]

Hey now, I was a school teacher (coach).
I didn’t fit in with most of the teachers, I guess they thought they were much smarter than me since I was a P.E. teacher. I had many tell me they would love to have my job. I told them they could have, but they got in the wrong line. I have common sense, which a lot of teachers seem to be lacking. I did pretty good for myself. Between teaching P.E., coaching, and teaching Drivers Ed, I have a pretty good pension and health care. Retired at 51 and work about 3 hours a day. Life is good.

I taught school for a couple of years before I went back to school. It was insanely exhausting and the most difficult job I’ve ever had so my post was a piss poor attempt at humor.
I apologize. I thank God every day for the teachers and professors I had along the way.

 

[DuckDevil]

This PowerPoint doesn’t save your argument either, not that you’ve ever had one. It’s a 2026 Nutrition Cluster presentation, while the famine classification was made in 2025. Showing that conditions improved almost a year later doesn’t somehow prove the famine never happened. Good grief.

It also excludes areas humanitarian organizations couldn’t access and explicitly warns that its findings only represent accessible areas. It certainly stands to reason that people they couldn’t reach may have had even worse access to food.

What’s also missing here is what happened in between, a massive humanitarian intervention driven in part by international pressure from the horrific images and stories coming out of Gaza. By then, even Israeli human rights organizations like B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights Israel had concluded Israel was committing genocide, while Amnesty International and the International Association of Genocide Scholars had reached the same conclusion.

Using the improved conditions that followed to pretend the original crisis never happened is exactly the kind of smoke screen you’d need when the reality of what happened is impossible to defend. After all, starving people to death and killing women and children is pretty shameful regardless of their skin color, nationality, or religion but then again, you’re probably the type of person that would laugh at something like that.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

After two years of the Left accusing Israel of “ starving” the children of Gaza, you now conveniently come out and say well I haven’t read his posts. Good plan generally but also a nice way to avoid accountability specifically. You two are the gift that keeps on giving.

Yes, you've said so already and this is the third time I'm saying that I don't recall it. To paraphrase that great philosopher Andy Dufresne, since I am telling you the truth, I find this rather INconvenient.

Feel free to procure previous posts where that has been discussed here and I have been silent.

Oh I thought you might stumble across UNICEF’s study where the children of Gaza were doing better than other kids in the Middle East in a war zone and their malnutrition levels were better than some countries in Europe

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/the-idea-there-was-famine-in-gaza-was-a-hoax-and-the-west-fell-for-it-completely/

I was looking directly at the UNICEF site rather than an opinion piece from a Zionist.

“ I don’t always read his longer posts”.
Yet you just assume you like them as you never push back and often repost them. Weird.

I might like a post without agreeing with all of it -- a couple from @dukesince91 's posts in the last couple pages come to mind -- or like a longer post without having read every bit of it carefully. I don't think that's unreasonable, uncommon, or suspicious.
"Repost"? Do you mean "reply"? The reply function here that automatically quotes what you're replying to? Is that what I'm doing -- agreeing -- when I quote something you wrote?

Again, you are really not making sense. I very rarely agree with you, but at least I can understand where you're coming from. You're bordering on incoherency right now.

 

[dukesince91]

I taught school for a couple of years before I went back to school. It was insanely exhausting and the most difficult job I’ve ever had so my post was a piss poor attempt at humor.
I apologize. I thank God every day for the teachers and professors I had along the way.

No offense taken, I was just messing with you. I taught 29 years and still teach Drivers Ed after school and during the summer. I have really seen a drop in what students know as the years have passed. I attribute this to smart phones (dumb phones) and the lack of expectations from public schools.

 

[Mac9192]

No offense taken, I was just messing with you. I taught 29 years and still teach Drivers Ed after school and during the summer. I have really seen a drop in what students know as the years have passed. I attribute this to smart phones (dumb phones) and the lack of expectations from public schools.

In my opinion, it’s all the above, and parenting. We have really screwed our kids up. Look at our society. Twenty five years ago was 9/11. Who would have thought a Muslim (and a member of the DSA) would be the mayor of New York City? Another example is how close Hong, also a democratic socialist, came to being the democratic nominee for governor of Wisconsin. Mamdani and her are pure loons.

Talk about scary times.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

No offense taken, I was just messing with you. I taught 29 years and still teach Drivers Ed after school and during the summer. I have really seen a drop in what students know as the years have passed. I attribute this to smart phones (dumb phones) and the lack of expectations from public schools.

Unlimited charter school expansion and vouchers for private schools have hurt public schools, too. Charter schools don't have anywhere near the federal and state mandates real public schools have, and most of them have very little accountability. And vouchers don't help poor families afford private school tuition; they help wealthy people get a discount on private school tuition.

As a very young teacher, like 24 or 25, I found myself on an ad hoc committee featuring tons of veteran teachers and administrators, and then ADA Jim Hardin*. The committee was looking into school suspensions and how to reduce them. Hardin's proposal was simply to cut the length of suspensions. Period. Just lipstick on a pig, basically. That was probably my first experience with and observation of how society misuses public schools.

Many years later, there was a law that if you dropped out, you lost your driver's license. Never mind that a lot of kids who drop out are going right into the workforce and need transportation. Never mind that the 2 things have nothing to do with each other. It was just unrelated leverage. The result was forcing a lot of kids who didn't want to be there and who weren't doing anything when they were there to stay in school, and for what? Basically so senior citizens felt safe power-walking at the mall. Now, nobody actually wants kids to drop out, but if you have to choose between one kid dropping out and that same kid getting nothing out of school while disrupting several others' educations, the former is the obviously better choice for doing less harm.

Society likes to use schools as babysitters and dump all of our problems on schools, then underfund schools, then blame schools for the outcome. And schools are complicit when we try to sweep things under the rug instead of throwing back the curtain and yelling for help.

(*Hardin went on to become the Durham DA who prosecuted Michael Peterson in the infamous "staircase" murder case, then became a judge. Mike Nifong took over for him as DA before being elected of his own accord on the back of misplaced Duke lax outrage.)

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

In my opinion, it’s all the above, and parenting. We have really screwed our kids up. Look at our society. Twenty five years ago was 9/11. Who would have thought a Muslim (and a member of the DSA) would be the mayor of New York City? Another example is how close Hong, also a democratic socialist, came to being the democratic nominee for governor of Wisconsin. Mamdani and her are pure loons.

Talk about scary times.

Mayor Mamdani is also a US citizen who lived through THE 9/11 in NYC as a child, and who was duly elected with 56% of the vote in the primary and a 9% win in a 3-candidate general election. Polls show that his approval rating has risen since he came into office in January.

Had President Trump's endorsed candidate Amir Hassan won his primary in Michigan, would you be tsk-tsking about it? (There is conflicting info on whether he is Muslim.)

When you lead with mentioning religion as a negative, it's a bad look and implies a big disconnect from the Constitution.

 

[Mac9192]

Mayor Mamdani is also a US citizen who lived through THE 9/11 in NYC as a child, and who was duly elected with 56% of the vote in the primary and a 9% win in a 3-candidate general election. Polls show that his approval rating has risen since he came into office in January.

Had President Trump's endorsed candidate Amir Hassan won his primary in Michigan, would you be tsk-tsking about it? (There is conflicting info on whether he is Muslim.)

When you lead with mentioning religion as a negative, it's a bad look and implies a big disconnect from the Constitution.

Remember when I said you and I couldn't be more opposite? I rest my case.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Remember when I said you and I couldn't be more opposite? I rest my case.

In this case, I am demonstrating knowledge of and respect for our Constitution and providing you with facts about how NYers feel about their mayor so far. I've said nothing about my personal feelings about it nor been compromised by my personal feelings about it.

 

[Mac9192]

In this case, I am demonstrating knowledge of and respect for our Constitution and providing you with facts about how NYers feel about their mayor so far. I've said nothing about my personal feelings about it nor been compromised by my personal feelings about it.

New York is a mess, taxes are high, but hey, they wanted him. People like Mamdani are a representation of the mess our country is in.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

New York is a mess, taxes are high, but hey, they wanted him. People like Mamdani are a representation of the mess our country is in.

His rising approval numbers would indicate that NYC is less of a mess than it was before.

How is he a representation of the mess our country is in?

 

[Mac9192]

His rising approval numbers would indicate that NYC is less of a mess than it was before.

How is he a representation of the mess our country is in?

A few of the things the DSA says sounds good, but I don't know how you could get it to work. Capitalism for starters. Sure, it's flawed, but I think it would be made far worse in any other system. Wanting to guarantee healthcare and tuition for everyone sounds good too. Not sure how that happens, but it sounds good. Guaranteeing work for all though? This one seems impossible. These sound more like attempts to score points with voters.

Where they lose all credibility is being Pro Palestine, yet they want to establish ethnic and gender equality. Wow. Talk about ignorance. This idea of gender equality is garbage though. Jobs like cutting trees down, road construction, putting up power lines, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, building houses, apartments, buildings, heating and air, oil rigs, fireman, policemen... who dominates these jobs?

What we have done over the last 15-20 years is taken the word tolerance, and gone delusional with it.

 

[dukesince91]

Unlimited charter school expansion and vouchers for private schools have hurt public schools, too. Charter schools don't have anywhere near the federal and state mandates real public schools have, and most of them have very little accountability. And vouchers don't help poor families afford private school tuition; they help wealthy people get a discount on private school tuition.

As a very young teacher, like 24 or 25, I found myself on an ad hoc committee featuring tons of veteran teachers and administrators, and then ADA Jim Hardin*. The committee was looking into school suspensions and how to reduce them. Hardin's proposal was simply to cut the length of suspensions. Period. Just lipstick on a pig, basically. That was probably my first experience with and observation of how society misuses public schools.

Many years later, there was a law that if you dropped out, you lost your driver's license. Never mind that a lot of kids who drop out are going right into the workforce and need transportation. Never mind that the 2 things have nothing to do with each other. It was just unrelated leverage. The result was forcing a lot of kids who didn't want to be there and who weren't doing anything when they were there to stay in school, and for what? Basically so senior citizens felt safe power-walking at the mall. Now, nobody actually wants kids to drop out, but if you have to choose between one kid dropping out and that same kid getting nothing out of school while disrupting several others' educations, the former is the obviously better choice for doing less harm.

Society likes to use schools as babysitters and dump all of our problems on schools, then underfund schools, then blame schools for the outcome. And schools are complicit when we try to sweep things under the rug instead of throwing back the curtain and yelling for help.

(*Hardin went on to become the Durham DA who prosecuted Michael Peterson in the infamous "staircase" murder case, then became a judge. Mike Nifong took over for him as DA before being elected of his own accord on the back of misplaced Duke lax outrage.)

I agree with most of what you said. I thought the law about passing 75% of your classes and staying in school or your license would be revoked was a good thing. Starting in October they’re doing away with this and you will see the dropout rate increase. A lot of those trouble makers you describe end up staying in school and mature a lot they’re junior and senior year. I think it was an excellent idea to decrease the dropout rate and it worked. You’re being dramatic about the seniors feeling unsafe at the mall walking. Those type of kids are asleep while the seniors are power walking. It’s the same situation with all the so called peaceful protesters. My older brother worked in downtown Charlotte when there were protests about a shooting. I told him to be careful. He laughed and said those people would be asleep and only come out during the cover of night.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

A few of the things the DSA says sounds good, but I don't know how you could get it to work. Capitalism for starters. Sure, it's flawed, but I think it would be made far worse in any other system. Wanting to guarantee healthcare and tuition for everyone sounds good too. Not sure how that happens, but it sounds good. Guaranteeing work for all though? This one seems impossible. These sound more like attempts to score points with voters.

Where they lose all credibility is being Pro Palestine, yet they want to establish ethnic and gender equality. Do they know how women are treated in these countries? This idea of gender equality is garbage though. Jobs like cutting trees down, road construction, putting up power lines, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, building houses, apartments, buildings, heating and air, oil rigs, fireman, policemen... who dominates these jobs?

In summary, we have taken the word tolerance, and it's gone too far.

There are early signs that many of Mayor Mamdani's initiatives are working.

Guaranteeing work for all sounds like a good goal, possible or not, and you might not make much progress toward that unless you shoot for the Moon and hype people up. Many of the things that are already getting rave reviews may have sounded impossible, too. If you score points with voters... and then follow through, that's a good thing.

Currently, Palestine has more urgent and immediate concerns than women's equality, and that's where they're focused. You're using a logical fallacy here; I guess I'd categorize it as the Red Herring fallacy or the False Equivalence fallacy: supporting self-governance and humane treatment of Palestinians is a separate issue from how women may be oppressed within the Palestinian population. Conflating them is a distraction.

It's also cherrypicking to focus on a singular or isolated issue, and further, to overlook how badly women are sometimes treated in just about every culture and religious framework.

Equality does not always mean sameness. Sometimes it means fairness, and overwhelmingly, that's how the word is used when it comes to gender and gender identity. Nobody is pretending that cis men and cis women average out to the same in every category of measurement. All those jobs you listed... have women historically had the same opportunity to advance in those fields? Are they incapable of doing those jobs? Should they continue to be denied the same opportunities?

We're getting pretty far afield from where this started with Mayor Mamdani. Do you have a clear, succinct explanation of how Mayor Mamdani is representative of the mess our country is in?

 

[Mac9192]

We're getting pretty far afield from where this started with Mayor Mamdani. Do you have a clear, succinct explanation of how Mayor Mamdani is representative of the mess our country is in?

Thought I gave it. You just didn’t like my responses. Capitalism is flawed, but it’s better than the other options. I didn’t even bring up their stance on being anti ICE, police, and prison.

It’s a failed approach. But again, you’re speaking to delusional people that want to take from one to give to another. That won’t work.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I agree with most of what you said. I thought the law about passing 75% of your classes and staying in school or your license would be revoked was a good thing. Starting in October they’re doing away with this and you will see the dropout rate increase. A lot of those trouble makers you describe end up staying in school and mature a lot they’re junior and senior year. I think it was an excellent idea to decrease the dropout rate and it worked. You’re being dramatic about the seniors feeling unsafe at the mall walking. Those type of kids are asleep while the seniors are power walking. It’s the same situation with all the so called peaceful protesters. My older brother worked in downtown Charlotte when there were protests about a shooting. I told him to be careful. He laughed and said those people would be asleep and only come out during the cover of night.

Yes, the mall-walking example was hyperbole. Fiiiiiiiiiine.

I don't see the connection between a driver's license and school performance. It doesn't follow any logic. And like I said about schools being complicit by playing along and allowing themselves to be where society shuts away problems we don't want to deal with, artificially suppressing the dropout rate looks good on the books, but it isn't improving the state of public education.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Thought I gave it. You just didn’t like my responses. Capitalism is flawed, but it’s better than the other options. I didn’t even bring up their stance on being anti ICE, police, and prison.

It’s a failed approach. But again, you’re speaking to delusional people that want to take from one to give to another. That won’t work.

Has DSA ideology taken root so deep that it's affecting the state of the country? I would think controlling all 3 branches of government would more than make up for whatever influence DSA has.

You're again using logical fallacies, this time a strawman and an ad hominem, when you misconstrue it and dismiss it as "delusional people that want to take from one to give to another."

 

[Mac9192]

Has DSA ideology taken root so deep that it's affecting the state of the country? I would think controlling all 3 branches of government would more than make up for whatever influence DSA has.

It's gaining appeal. Look at who has been elected the last few elections. You can't tell me we're a better country now than we were 10 years ago. How about 2010 vs 2000? Or 2000 compared to 1990? I've said we've been slipping as a country for a while. Not just in politics either. We have been the frog in the pot of water rising slowly to a boil for decades.
Now in 2026 we get quacks like Mamdani and this El-Sayed... Muslims, really? Sorry, but this is a big, big problem.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

It's gaining appeal. Look at who has been elected the last few elections. You can't tell me we're a better country now than we were 10 years ago. How about 2010 vs 2000? Or 2000 compared to 1990? I've said we've been slipping as a country for a while. Not just in politics either. We have been the frog in the pot of water rising slowly to a boil for decades.
Now in 2026 we get quacks like Mamdani and this El-Sayed... Muslims, really? Sorry, but this is a big, big problem.

This is a response to the slippage, not the cause of the slippage.

Why are they quacks? As I said, Mayor Mamdani has become more popular since he took office. That is a clear sign that on average the people he serves approve of what he is doing. Dr. El-Sayed is a medical doctor and author who just won a primary.

The very beginning of the very first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." As that has consistently been interpreted for more than 200 years, that means we have no official religion, the govt doesn't favor any religion over another -- including the absence of religion -- and it doesn't prohibit the practice of any religion. That means being Muslim is not against the law, nor disqualifying from participating in govt.

There is no evidence whatsoever that a single elected Muslim in the federal govt, any state house, or any city hall is a jihadist who wants to enact sharia law. None. So any insinuation that Islam is inherently violent is as baseless as it is irrelevant.

"Muslims, really?" What about them? You are dangerously close to underwater on this one, mac.

 

[dukesince91]

Yes, the mall-walking example was hyperbole. Fiiiiiiiiiine.

I don't see the connection between a driver's license and school performance. It doesn't follow any logic. And like I said about schools being complicit by playing along and allowing themselves to be where society shuts away problems we don't want to deal with, artificially suppressing the dropout rate looks good on the books, but it isn't improving the state of public education.

Yes, the mall-walking example was hyperbole. Fiiiiiiiiiine.

I don't see the connection between a driver's license and school performance. It doesn't follow any logic. And like I said about schools being complicit by playing along and allowing themselves to be where society shuts away problems we don't want to deal with, artificially suppressing the dropout rate looks good on the books, but it isn't improving the state of public education.

The dropout rate was very high in the rural area I taught at before this law was passed. After it was introduced, the dropout rate dropped by more than 50 %. Students knew they had to keep their grades up or have their license revoked. The evidence was there that it made a big difference. Since I teach Drivers Ed, I was much more aware of this than you. I’m sure you probably read somewhere that it was effective.

 

[Mac9192]

This is a response to the slippage, not the cause of the slippage.

Why are they quacks? As I said, Mayor Mamdani has become more popular since he took office. That is a clear sign that on average the people he serves approve of what he is doing. Dr. El-Sayed is a medical doctor and author who just won a primary.

The very beginning of the very first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." As that has consistently been interpreted for more than 200 years, that means we have no official religion, the govt doesn't favor any religion over another -- including the absence of religion -- and it doesn't prohibit the practice of any religion. That means being Muslim is not against the law, nor disqualifying from participating in govt.

There is no evidence whatsoever that a single elected Muslim in the federal govt, any state house, or any city hall is a jihadist who wants to enact sharia law. None. So any insinuation that Islam is inherently violent is as baseless as it is irrelevant.

"Muslims, really?" What about them? You are dangerously close to underwater on this one, mac.

Do they want to abolish ICE, the police, and prisons? You can't think those are good ideas, but you have avoided those issues. By choice?
The majority of what they are 'claiming to want to do' is like cotton candy. It looks appealing, but that's about it.

To say they are appealing to their base? Well, let's be honest, anyone who is for all this is either young or dumb. Could be both.

I have stated often causes for our slippage. Parenting, society, government... but the main reason is too many of us have gotten away from God. We chase money, the American dream... and only wind up empty. I'm not preaching, or judging anyone. Too many people don't feel the need for Jesus in their lives until something bad happens. The defense for some that don't go to church or have a relationship with Jesus is the famous line "Christians are hypocrites." True, but that shouldn't stop any of us.

I am not leaving myself out of this. I need to do a lot better.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

The dropout rate was very high in the rural area I taught at before this law was passed. After it was introduced, the dropout rate dropped by more than 50 %. Students knew they had to keep their grades up or have their license revoked. The evidence was there that it made a big difference. Since I teach Drivers Ed, I was much more aware of this than you. I’m sure you probably read somewhere that it was effective.

Again, if reducing the dropout rate only means kids continue to fail and disrupt school, it's a hollow stat. That's what I observed in my classrooms, which I recognize is not data.
But I don't doubt there was some gain. There is still no discernible connection between driving and school. As parents, my wife and I have always made sure consequences are related to the transgression. Toys were put in "jail" if they didn't get put away when they should've. Not completing a chore meant you had to do it when you would have been going out with friends. There was no bad-grade-therefore-no-dessert punishments, and that's how the school enrollment for driver's license rule struck me.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Do they want to abolish ICE, the police, and prisons? You can't think those are good ideas, but you have avoided those issues. By choice?
The majority of what they are 'claiming to want to do' is like cotton candy. It looks appealing, but that's about it.

To say they are appealing to their base? Well, let's be honest, anyone who is for all this is either young or dumb. Could be both.

I have stated often causes for our slippage. Parenting, society, government... but the main reason is too many of us have gotten away from God. We chase money, the American dream... and only wind up empty. I'm not preaching, or judging anyone. Too many people don't feel the need for Jesus in their lives until something bad happens. The defense for some that don't go to church or have a relationship with Jesus is the famous line "Christians are hypocrites." True, but that shouldn't stop any of us.

I am not leaving myself out of this. I need to do a lot better.

I am 100% in favor of abolishing ICE. They have consistently proven that they are lawless thugs who abuse authority. Absolutely. Get rid of them.
Not Border Patrol. ICE.

Defund the police is mistaken for abolish the police. I am again 100% in favor of moving some funding away from the militarization of police into emergency workers with mental health training. There is no reason a family should call 9-1-1 for help with a child having a mental health crisis and instead police show up and end up killing that child. That's not who should respond. That's not serving and protecting. That's authoritarianism and no different from the abuses of ICE.

And we need serious prison reform. When President Reagan started privatizing prisons, that's around the time we saw a huge explosion in prison population. When you make prisons private, you make them for-profit, and the private companies running them don't profit from rehabilitation. They profit from recidivism, from stricter sentencing, from longer sentencing. And they lobby Congress and General Assemblies to make that happen. They even write the legislation themselves.

I'm definitely not young, so you are apparently calling me dumb. You left no room for any other options.

We are not and have never been a Christian nation. That's by design. If Christians are hypocrites and they wield the Bible like a weapon against others, why would anyone want to know Jesus? Why would we need any more of that? Mayor Mamdani follows the example of Christ far better than many Christians. Conservative evangelical Christians are a far greater danger for imposing their version of sharia law on everyone than Muslims are.

You don't have to agree with Islam. If you are advocating for the removal of Muslims from elected office or public service, you are in favor of violating the Constitution and rejecting how Jesus told us we are to love and treat others. And that's what it sounds like when you just say "Muslims, really?" as if there is only one right or sane way to think and you don't have to say any more than that.

 

[Mac9192]

I am 100% in favor of abolishing ICE. They have consistently proven that they are lawless thugs who abuse authority. Absolutely. Get rid of them.
Not Border Patrol. ICE.

Defund the police is mistaken for abolish the police. I am again 100% in favor of moving some funding away from the militarization of police into emergency workers with mental health training. There is no reason a family should call 9-1-1 for help with a child having a mental health crisis and instead police show up and end up killing that child. That's not who should respond. That's not serving and protecting. That's authoritarianism and no different from the abuses of ICE.

And we need serious prison reform. When President Reagan started privatizing prisons, that's around the time we saw a huge explosion in prison population. When you make prisons private, you make them for-profit, and the private companies running them don't profit from rehabilitation. They profit from recidivism, from stricter sentencing, from longer sentencing. And they lobby Congress and General Assemblies to make that happen. They even write the legislation themselves.

I'm definitely not young, so you are apparently calling me dumb. You left no room for any other options.

We are not and have never been a Christian nation. That's by design. If Christians are hypocrites and they wield the Bible like a weapon against others, why would anyone want to know Jesus? Why would we need any more of that? Mayor Mamdani follows the example of Christ far better than many Christians. Conservative evangelical Christians are a far greater danger for imposing their version of sharia law on everyone than Muslims are.

You don't have to agree with Islam. If you are advocating for the removal of Muslims from elected office or public service, you are in favor of violating the Constitution and rejecting how Jesus told us we are to love and treat others. And that's what it sounds like when you just say "Muslims, really?" as if there is only one right or sane way to think and you don't have to say any more than that.

On ICE, you've watched too much left wing sites. Are all of the ICE agents perfect? No. Are all school teachers? Should we abolish teachers because some of them are too rough, or terrible at their profession? The problem with guys like you is you think some of these should be 100% problem free. That's impossible. This 911 scenario in dealing with a mental health crisis is a possibility, but it has a lot of holes in it to be plugged. Like an aggressive scenario. What instances do you have though where a child was killed by the police? Nice job throwing that in there.

The lack of Christianity in the last several decades is the major driver in our decline as a country. We've used the $$ as our idol. Your comment saying "if Christians are hypocrites that wield their Bible like a weapon against others, why would anyone want to know Jesus?" That doesn't make all Christians that way Datt. You have a knack for putting the people you disagree with in one big box, calling ALL of them bad. That's not true or fair. We are all sinners. I don't know if you are a Christian or not, but your comments here suggest some hostility towards them. Jesus's teaching were simple and spot on. Most of us fail daily to live like him, but we should strive to.

The part about being a Muslim and a politician is a hard pill to swallow. But when you add to it that Mamdani is a Socialist too, well, that's pretty much a foregone conclusion to not want him holding a position of power.

 

[dukesince91]

This is a response to the slippage, not the cause of the slippage.

Why are they quacks? As I said, Mayor Mamdani has become more popular since he took office. That is a clear sign that on average the people he serves approve of what he is doing. Dr. El-Sayed is a medical doctor and author who just won a primary.

The very beginning of the very first amendment says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." As that has consistently been interpreted for more than 200 years, that means we have no official religion, the govt doesn't favor any religion over another -- including the absence of religion -- and it doesn't prohibit the practice of any religion. That means being Muslim is not against the law, nor disqualifying from participating in govt.

There is no evidence whatsoever that a single elected Muslim in the federal govt, any state house, or any city hall is a jihadist who wants to enact sharia law. None. So any insinuation that Islam is inherently violent is as baseless as it is irrelevant.

"Muslims, really?" What about them? You are dangerously close to underwater on this one, mac.

Time will tell, but I doubt we will see people heading back to NY in droves because of this so called great mayor.

Again, if reducing the dropout rate only means kids continue to fail and disrupt school, it's a hollow stat. That's what I observed in my classrooms, which I recognize is not data.
But I don't doubt there was some gain. There is still no discernible connection between driving and school. As parents, my wife and I have always made sure consequences are related to the transgression. Toys were put in "jail" if they didn't get put away when they should've. Not completing a chore meant you had to do it when you would have been going out with friends. There was no bad-grade-therefore-no-dessert punishments, and that's how the school enrollment for driver's license rule struck me.

It sounds like to me that you have classroom discipline issues. I never had that problem.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

On ICE, you've watched too much left wing sites. Are all of the ICE agents perfect? No. Are all school teachers? Should we abolish teachers because some of them are too rough, or terrible at their profession? The problem with guys like you is you think some of these should be 100% problem free. That's impossible. This 911 scenario in dealing with a mental health crisis is a possibility, but it has a lot of holes in it to be plugged. Like an aggressive scenario. What instances do you have though where a child was killed by the police? Nice job throwing that in there.

The lack of Christianity in the last several decades is the major driver in our decline as a country. We've used the $$ as our idol. Your comment saying "if Christians are hypocrites that wield their Bible like a weapon against others, why would anyone want to know Jesus?" That doesn't make all Christians that way Datt. You have a knack for putting the people you disagree with in one big box, calling ALL of them bad. That's not true or fair. We are all sinners. I don't know if you are a Christian or not, but your comments here suggest some hostility towards them. Jesus's teaching were simple and spot on. Most of us fail daily to live like him, but we should strive to.

The part about being a Muslim and a politician is a hard pill to swallow. But when you add to it that Mamdani is a Socialist too, well, that's pretty much a foregone conclusion to not want him holding a position of power.

You can't tell me a thing about "the problem with guys like [me]." Don't waste my time or yours.

False equivalency fallacy to bring teachers into it. This has nothing to do with teachers. 52 people have died in ICE custody since January of 2025. It is a rogue outfit of masked thugs who don't respect the Constitution. They have been deployed as our President's personal hit squad. I want them disbanded 100%.

Not all kids... Victor Perez, Tamir Rice, Walter Walton, Jordan Edwards, Adam Toledo, Daniel Pruitt, Sonya Massey, Chris Hall, and Elijah McClain have all been killed by police in the last decade or so after someone called 9-1-1 asking for help. That's just off the top of my head. Why would you oppose the hiring of more mental health professionals who are trained to deescalate those situations? How is that remotely objectionable? How is a call for police reform divisive?

I am Christian but that is irrelevant. It's the strawman fallacy to act as if I meant every single last Christian. I specified conservative evangelicals. The union of conservative Christianity and right wing politics has corrupted both. Again, conservative evangelicals are the greatest threat to impose "sharia" law in this country.

You're welcome to dislike the popular mayor of NYC who continues to get more popular. Where I will call you on it every time is where you start sliding into anti-American, anti-Christian, Islamaphobic rhetoric.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

It sounds like to me that you have classroom discipline issues. I never had that problem.

And here I thought we were having a civil discussion. Never mind. I guess we're done.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

I'm definitely not young, so you are apparently calling me dumb. You left no room for any other options.

I won't accuse you of deliberately ignoring this, @Mac9192 . It's hard to respond to everything in a long post and I do go on.
But I'd like it addressed.

 

[Mac9192]

I won't accuse you of deliberately ignoring this, @Mac9192 . It's hard to respond to everything in a long post and I do go on.
But I'd like it addressed.

Yes, on political and social issues, I think you’re dumb. We hardly agree on anything.

I take back nothing I’ve said. Before you say I haven’t addressed anything, read my post again.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Yes, on political and social issues, I think you’re dumb. We hardly agree on anything.

I take back nothing I’ve said. Before you say I haven’t addressed anything, read my post again.

Does everyone's intelligence fall on a scale according to how closely their beliefs align with yours?

 

[Mac9192]

Does everyone's intelligence fall on a scale according to how closely their beliefs align with yours?

You act like you don’t say insulting things when others disagree with you? This isn’t a one way road Datt.
I’ve been very clear with my stances, and I think they are closer to being correct than yours, especially when it comes to Muslims and representing this country. But they aren’t the problem. It’s what our leaders, and the media have been pushing for a while. Tolerance has become a one way road. Everyone is supposed to tolerate all these wacky stances that the Left shoves down our throats.

An example is when all these protests that turn violent don’t get called out by EVERYONE. The Democrats and left wing media don’t plead for this to stop, but then criticize law enforcement for stepping up.

Hypothetical situation Datt: what would you want done if you, or a family member found themselves unfortunately in one of these Not So Friendly Protests? Call a florist, or 911?

 

[dukesince91]

And here I thought we were having a civil discussion. Never mind. I guess we're done.

No, you just act like it was not a good thing to tie students grades to their drivers license just because you have problem students in your class. I’ve seen it do a lot of good for the potential dropouts.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You act like you don’t say insulting things when others disagree with you? This isn’t a one way road Datt.
I’ve been very clear with my stances, and I think they are closer to being correct than yours, especially when it comes to Muslims and representing this country. But they aren’t the problem. It’s what our leaders, and the media have been pushing for a while. Tolerance has become a one way road. Everyone is supposed to tolerate all these wacky stances that the Left shoves down our throats.

An example is when all these protests that turn violent don’t get called out by EVERYONE. The Democrats and left wing media don’t plead for this to stop, but then criticize law enforcement for stepping up.

Hypothetical situation Datt: what would you want done if you, or a family member found themselves unfortunately in one of these Not So Friendly Protests? Call a florist, or 911?

What you are saying and implying about Muslims in general and Muslim Americans in particular is anti-American and anti-Christian. The country needs more Jesus, you say? Starts at home.

No one is shoving anything down your throat. They're just daring to exist. No one says you have to get gay married or you can't get hetero married. No one knocks on your door to share the good news of buttsecks and invite you to the ghey. No one is telling you what you can and can't do with your reproductive system. That's what your side is doing to others. No one is doing anything to you except not letting you shove anything down their throat anymore. It is privilege and entitlement to think that makes you oppressed or put upon.

Have you heard of the gorilla experiment? I don't know its official name. They had a group of gorillas. They gave one 4 bananas at a time on some interval, like every hour or something. They gave each of the other gorillas one banana at a time on the same schedule. Then they upped the other gorillas' bananas to two at a time while still giving that first gorilla 4... and he got furious. He was still getting twice as many as any other gorilla, but others getting more felt so unfair. This story isn't really about gorillas, but I'm too dumb to connect the dots for you.

Sorry, but I'm too dumb to be able to handle your hypothetical. A florist? I specifically stated mental health experts and you substituted in florist. How condescending, and yet another strawman. This watered down version of me is the person you're calling dumb because it's safer and easier than dealing with what I actually say.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

No, you just act like it was not a good thing to tie students grades to their drivers license just because you have problem students in your class. I’ve seen it do a lot of good for the potential dropouts.

What logical connection is there between the two?

Thank you for your career of service to students, coach.

If you drive drunk, you lose your driver's license.
If you drive too fast, you can lose your driver's license.
What does school enrollment have to do with a driver's license?

 

[dukesince91]

What logical connection is there between the two?

Thank you for your career of service to students, coach.

If you drive drunk, you lose your driver's license.
If you drive too fast, you can lose your driver's license.
What does school enrollment have to do with a driver's license?

Thanks for the compliment and your work as a teacher as well. I just think it’s an incentive and a deterrent to get and retain your license. It states in the textbook I use that it’s a privilege and not a right to have a Driver’s license. What’s the difference in that and how they tie grades and attendance for being eligible to play sports for your school?

 

[Mac9192]

What you are saying and implying about Muslims in general and Muslim Americans in particular is anti-American and anti-Christian. The country needs more Jesus, you say? Starts at home.

No one is shoving anything down your throat. They're just daring to exist. No one says you have to get gay married or you can't get hetero married. No one knocks on your door to share the good news of buttsecks and invite you to the ghey. No one is telling you what you can and can't do with your reproductive system. That's what your side is doing to others. No one is doing anything to you except not letting you shove anything down their throat anymore. It is privilege and entitlement to think that makes you oppressed or put upon.

Have you heard of the gorilla experiment? I don't know its official name. They had a group of gorillas. They gave one 4 bananas at a time on some interval, like every hour or something. They gave each of the other gorillas one banana at a time on the same schedule. Then they upped the other gorillas' bananas to two at a time while still giving that first gorilla 4... and he got furious. He was still getting twice as many as any other gorilla, but others getting more felt so unfair. This story isn't really about gorillas, but I'm too dumb to connect the dots for you.

Sorry, but I'm too dumb to be able to handle your hypothetical. A florist? I specifically stated mental health experts and you substituted in florist. How condescending, and yet another strawman. This watered down version of me is the person you're calling dumb because it's safer and easier than dealing with what I actually say.

YesI do have an issue with Muslims holding political positions, but when they are also socialists too, then it becomes a bigger problem. That doesn’t make me racist. I like women too, but I think there’s also positions in the world they shouldn’t hold.

Let’s talk tolerance. Be tolerant of gays, transgenders, the protestors, immigration, reparations… I mean there’s commercials for prescription medication for HIV showing men holding hands. If we don’t agree with all of these things, and I mean 100% agree, well, we know what happens next. The shaming, name calling happens. Fact. So yes, tolerance right now is only a one way word.

Not sure what your point is about the gorillas, or who you’re saying the gorilla that keeps getting 4 represents, but it is a cute story.

My point about the florist? Nothing about mental health in that one Datt. I think it went right over your head. It was merely a simple hypothetical. if you or your family somehow found yourself near a protest that turned violent, who you gonna call, a florist or 911? Think you were just playing dumb there. Nice job.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Thanks for the compliment and your work as a teacher as well. I just think it’s an incentive and a deterrent to get and retain your license. It states in the textbook I use that it’s a privilege and not a right to have a Driver’s license. What’s the difference in that and how they tie grades and attendance for being eligible to play sports for your school?

How you're doing in school matters when playing sports for your school, though if it didn't make sense, it wouldn't justify the enrollment for DL rule. One thing not making sense doesn't justify another thing that isn't making sense. The sports thing does make sense.

I acknowledge that it helped curtail dropouts. In that, perhaps the end justifies the means (and sometimes -- only sometimes -- I do think the end does justify the means). I would like to see data demonstrating that it actually improved school performance. If it did, it was a pretty lucky thing because it had no direct effect on instruction.

I stand by my position that society expects schools to hide society's problems and schools go along with it to their own detriment.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

YesI do have an issue with Muslims holding political positions, but when they are also socialists too, then it becomes a bigger problem. That doesn’t make me racist. I like women too, but I think there’s also positions in the world they shouldn’t hold.

Let’s talk tolerance. Be tolerant of gays, transgenders, the protestors, immigration, reparations… I mean there’s commercials for prescription medication for HIV showing men holding hands. If we don’t agree with all of these things, and I mean 100% agree, well, we know what happens next. The shaming, name calling happens. Fact. So yes, tolerance right now is only a one way word.

Not sure what your point is about the gorillas, or who you’re saying the gorilla that keeps getting 4 represents, but it is a cute story.

My point about the florist? Nothing about mental health in that one Datt. I think it went right over your head. It was merely a simple hypothetical. if you or your family somehow found yourself near a protest that turned violent, who you gonna call, a florist or 911? Think you were just playing dumb there. Nice job.

I didn't call you racist or sexist. "Lik[ing] women" doesn't exempt anyone from being sexist. Liking anyone and being polite and friendly to them doesn't mean a person is free from prejudice against them.

If you have an issue with Muslims holding political office on the basis that they are Muslim, that is Islamophobia and bigotry. I didn't write the definition. Again, it is also anti-American and anti-Christian. The Constitution and the Bible do not support your stance.

There are commercials with heterosexual couples holding hands. I would venture a guess that the percentage of heterosexual couples depicted doing something romantic/affectionate in commercials and other media and entertainment is way higher than the actual % of couples who are heterosexual. Is that an "agenda"? Is that being shoved down anyone's throat? By bringing this up, you are admitting that you don't want gay couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples. That's textbook homophobia, no matter how nice and polite you might be to their face.

That's not name-calling. That is accurately identifying something according to very basic and universally known definitions and I have been clear, thorough, consistent, patient, and correct in explaining why multiple times now. That it is an unpleasant something does not make it name-calling. I doubt you feel shame, but you should. Being anti-American, anti-Christian, and prejudicial should be something anyone aspiring to be patriotic, Christian, and fair toward all people is ashamed of. And that shame should motivate you to change. That's often been what has motivated me to make changes in my life.

*I* mentioned mental health. I did. ME. I want some money diverted from the militarization of police into hiring mental health workers skilled at deescalation. I've already said this. Instead of addressing what I actually said, you inserted a florist into it as the alternative to calling police, which implies that I just want pretty, comforting, frivolous things. That is condescending and it is a strawman, which I have defined for you and explained to you several times already. According to you, though, I am stupid, so it should come as no surprise that I am incapable of comprehending your hypothetical.

It's also a strawman to act as if I said there is never any place for police.

People and gorillas who think their rights are being oppressed because other people's rights are respected after not being respected for so long are, in that instance, acting entitled and privileged. Gay marriage and the ability for gay people to hold hands in public without getting beat up are rights they should have always had, and it is not shoving it down your throat or taking away from your bananas. But I feel silly explaining that to you when I am so stupid.

Look into the Tolerance Paradox: "unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance... We must therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate intolerance". (Those are 2 different links.) Ultimately, intolerance cannot be tolerated. We must be intolerant of intolerance. That is not hypocritical , and it is the fallacy of false equivalence to claim those are the same type of intolerance.

 

[dukesince91]

I didn't call you racist or sexist. "Lik[ing] women" doesn't exempt anyone from being sexist. Liking anyone and being polite and friendly to them doesn't mean a person is free from prejudice against them.

If you have an issue with Muslims holding political office on the basis that they are Muslim, that is Islamophobia and bigotry. I didn't write the definition. Again, it is also anti-American and anti-Christian. The Constitution and the Bible do not support your stance.

There are commercials with heterosexual couples holding hands. I would venture a guess that the percentage of heterosexual couples depicted doing something romantic/affectionate in commercials and other media and entertainment is way higher than the actual % of couples who are heterosexual. Is that an "agenda"? Is that being shoved down anyone's throat? By bringing this up, you are admitting that you don't want gay couples to have the same rights as heterosexual couples. That's textbook homophobia, no matter how nice and polite you might be to their face.

That's not name-calling. That is accurately identifying something according to very basic and universally known definitions and I have been clear, thorough, consistent, patient, and correct in explaining why multiple times now. That it is an unpleasant something does not make it name-calling. I doubt you feel shame, but you should. Being anti-American, anti-Christian, and prejudicial should be something anyone aspiring to be patriotic, Christian, and fair toward all people is ashamed of. And that shame should motivate you to change. That's often been what has motivated me to make changes in my life.

*I* mentioned mental health. I did. ME. I want some money diverted from the militarization of police into hiring mental health workers skilled at deescalation. I've already said this. Instead of addressing what I actually said, you inserted a florist into it as the alternative to calling police, which implies that I just want pretty, comforting, frivolous things. That is condescending and it is a strawman, which I have defined for you and explained to you several times already. According to you, though, I am stupid, so it should come as no surprise that I am incapable of comprehending your hypothetical.

It's also a strawman to act as if I said there is never any place for police.

People and gorillas who think their rights are being oppressed because other people's rights are respected after not being respected for so long are, in that instance, acting entitled and privileged. Gay marriage and the ability for gay people to hold hands in public without getting beat up are rights they should have always had, and it is not shoving it down your throat or taking away from your bananas. But I feel silly explaining that to you when I am so stupid.

Look into the Tolerance Paradox: "unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance... We must therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate intolerance". (Those are 2 different links.) Ultimately, intolerance cannot be tolerated. We must be intolerant of intolerance. That is not hypocritical , and it is the fallacy of false equivalence to claim those are the same type of intolerance.

So you think there’s less heterosexual couples percentage wise than what’s depicted in commercials? Datt, I’m just curious, but what percentage of people do you think are homosexual? I’m sure it’s going to get higher with the way they celebrate it with PRIDE month. I doubt if Mac has a problem with homosexuals, he’s probably like me and doesn’t care to celebrate it. I’m a Christian and I think people like to judge us and expect us to be perfect. We’re all sinners. People expect us to be tolerant and nonjudgmental, but the Bible says that you’re to judge your neighbor fairly. It doesn’t say we are to accept everything.

 

[Mac9192]

Exactly @dukesince91. I’m also not against Muslims. I just don’t think they should hold political positions. It’s made worse when they admit to being socialist.
Datt has learned well. Take a portion of what is said, then spin it.