um..... what????
- Thread starter nittanyfan333
- Start date
Do they get trophies for showing up for class?
I'd be insecure as a freshman in ann arbor as well.
My assistant coach is a UM grad, BS in Data Science. He said this has been coming for a while because the school lets in too many kids who dont belong there. Whether that be due to having inflated GPAs from HS or being admitted due to another factor such as race, child of alumni, etc. there are kids who just cant do the work and cant handle a professor not allowing them to miss class, turn in assignments late or redo exams.
Appreciate the insight. Makes logical sense, but begs the larger question of WTF? is this the "participation trophy" methodology coming home to roost?
I keep being reminded of how true this Hopf quote is:
'Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.'
It's absolutely true. We have made everything easier for kids in education and they never get held accountable so thats the other issue. AI does all the kids work, then when its late you still have to accept it, even if its 6 weeks late.
My asst, who is Asian, also has some other interesting items that he told me when I sent him a similar article last week. I wont post because it will become political.
"um - what????" meaning University of Michigan.....what??????
I don't know if your thread title was a play on words......but if so - very well done...
When I lived in Michigan years ago, I worked career fairs at um for my employer. Despite um’s reputation, I was thoroughly unimpressed with many of the undergrads that I met. And that’s coming from me. We contacted just a few students for interviews. After a couple of years, we stopped attending their career fairs.
"um - what????" meaning University of Michigan.....what??????
I don't know if your thread title was a play on words......but if so - very well done...
I used to teach the highest level math classes we offered in our HS, Calc BC and IB HL math so I knew who the true best students were and wrote lots of letters of recommendation. We didnt have many apply there but always a couple per year. It always surprised me when a few of them would get wait listed at UM but year kids who were not as strong, but still solid students would get in. For a school held in such high regard they let some kids in who wouldn't get in to UMD without going to community college
Meanwhile , Harvard is cranking up the heat . Softies will have scUM transfer apps out .
www.harvardmagazine.com
Harvard Faculty Approve a Cap on A Grades | Harvard Magazine
Reforms to reduce grade inflation will take effect in the fall of 2027.
www.harvardmagazine.com
can be but the stuff in my other post that was deleted goes in to play too.
Previous generations built the country and the current grads are building big macs.
Can't even make fries hot.
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The greatest generation built the country and saved the world. Their boomer kids self-indulged and squandered all of it along with any semblance of prosperity for future millenials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha.
ROTFALMAO:
Ialways thought you were a mental case if you had anything to do with Michigan.
Strictly a revenue retention move … in a market where schools are competing for a dwindling HS applicant pool ~ keeping the dopier kids another semester or two beyond Year1 takes some stress off the need to load up incoming freshman classes every year
What if it doesn’t “curb the crisis” for those that fail?
I think the best way to curb the crisis is to give all first semester students a unicorn on their report card.
I think the best way to curb the crisis is to give all first semester students a unicorn on their report card.
The in person, proctored exams and return to blue books as an answer to AI-assisted cheating will weed out ALOT of kids
The next 10 years will be challenging since the policies of Covid at schools dumbed things down. Thank goodness we were in South Carolina during it. Now when they go to college they are shocked that results matter. Working for it and the fact that they may fail if they don’t study hard are new in their world. My last daughter going into psu now. Thank goodness her two sisters did well and witnessed that and drove her to be better at school and everything. She has stepped up well and now she should be ready.
Just take a look at EVERYTHING that is happening in Michigan. The place should be nuked or sold to Canada for a string of beads.
We were allowed to take an elective pass/fail when I was at PSU. I took astronomy and there was only a midterm and the final. I missed most classes and didn't study at all since all I needed was a D. Back then our professor posted grades by SS number outside his office and I think my midterm grade was about 55%. I was scared to death so I started attending class and studying. The last class before the final the professor recapped by telling us that 55 was a B. Son of a B!!ch!
I think it's more than a covid problem.
Recent National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) results show that over 30% of U.S. high school seniors lack basic reading skills, and about 45% lack basic math skills, marking the lowest performance in decades.
I live in Madison wi supposedly the 5 most educated town, right next to west high school which used to be a top performing school. Now 50% high school students not reading proficiently! It is a social cultural problem in how kids are raised and how they are educated. I am faculty at med school and work mainly with residents so people been through college and med school and I am very often the first person ever in their educational life to tell them they got something wrong. It’s doctoring, people lives and all so really need to be correct. And they will proceed to argue, complain or submit formal grievance.
double those for Baltimore and DC public school students. Until students and parents are held accountable for anything, it wont go up.
This is why I believe this is the participation trophy generation coming home to roost. There's been an entire generation of kids raised to believe that as long as they just show up they're good. no need to work hard. And in turn they've been fed that line of garbage through school and eventually into life. These are the kids that think they can get a degree in anything they want, regardless of ROI, and if they don't find they job they THINK they are entitled, they just move back in with mom and dad.
sad sad times
good times have made soft men, and now soft men are making hard times.
Very true about those expecting to get any degree they want. Kids who squeak by in Algebra 2 as seniors think they are going to be some type of engineer.
Me - "Why do you want to go to school for engineering?"
Student - "They make a lot of $"
M - "you do know that you will need to take multiple math and physics classes, right"
S - "why? I just want to be an an engineer to get that bread"
M -"because thats how you get a degree in engineering, you pass all the classes required for the degree"
S- "but I dont like math and should still be able to get that job"
M - "but you have to prove that you can actually do the things that you need to do to be an engineer"
S- "thats not my fault, they should just hire me and I'll get someone else to do it"
This is an almost word for word conversation with a student. Guidance Counselors are awful as well, telling kids terrible things that lead them to terrible decisions.
I took Astronomy and the professor said to the class, for those that think this is going to be easy think again. So definitely not pass or fail in that class.
Yes. Because 6 years ago they weren’t going to class for two years in some states. Virtual was a joke. So many from first grade to 8th grade fell behind. We were happy that our kids were in 9th grade and 7th grade at the time and by September of 2020 in South Carolina they were back in class, so they only missed April May of that year in class. So these are now 7th graders going into college that were of that age in 2020. Just wait until the then, 3rd-6th enter college. Ouch.
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Wife is from Michigan, attended MSU, close friends with Dr. Surgeon at UMich hospital and family, his children went to UMich now Dr. and lawyer - very good students and focused.
We lived in MI two different times for much too long to assist family and more, etc. - and there are local stories that are not reported nationally. We lived just west of AA, football Saturdays are unending hell - experienced travel to all of that state.
The management of the University and the intent of most of the population is simple - nothing shall disparage the University of Michigan brand, the logo and the reputation of the school. The UMich hospital system is another story - it is beyond excellent.
We lived in MI two different times for much too long to assist family and more, etc. - and there are local stories that are not reported nationally. We lived just west of AA, football Saturdays are unending hell - experienced travel to all of that state.
The management of the University and the intent of most of the population is simple - nothing shall disparage the University of Michigan brand, the logo and the reputation of the school. The UMich hospital system is another story - it is beyond excellent.
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...... i may cry.
this is so freaking sad.
single parent that had to pick up a second job to pay for things/second parent needing to start working, puting little johnny in front of the "babysitter" giving him social media/screen brainrot, paired with little johnny being fluffed about every aspect of his life and told he can do what he wants, then throw in a dash of remote "learning" for a few years....
Rome is falling
I agree 100%. IMO this was largely caused by bowing to teachers unions. As bad a covid was it wasn't as bad as the flu for school age children. It wasn't much worse than the flu for working age adults. It was really bad for seniors.
That said proficiency rates have been declining for a log time. The school shutdowns just made it worse.
This ^^^^^^^
But far, far worse.
It is stunning. Of course, I see it most up close and personal at PSU - and it is incredible.
Kids come in - without anything close to the type of background to have any chance to jump into, for example, an engineering program. ZERO.
And their way of dealing with that (and, SO often, the PARENTS way of fdealing with that) is:
"Where can I go (community college or whatever) to take a class to meet some required course - that I can't even come close to "passing" at UP?"
As if that is some magic elixir - just get a check mark and move on - completely and utterly unprepared.
The real shame is - and if you speak openly and honestly to real faculty - is that these situations don't simply result in the student "flunking out". Oh no, they result in the student being passed along all the way through to graduation. With grades just "good enough" to "earn" them a degree.
Why? Honestly, anyone paying attention knows why. It is so the University can get that $200,000 out of them - and the college/department can keep that "student unit" in their college/department. Why? Because that is how the budget to each college/department is now calculated (thanks Dr B) - so department heads/deans tell their faculty to make sure they don't fail anyone, and to keep them moving down the line - so they get their $$$.
That is the way it works. Period. Full stop.
The faculty member who doesn't pass them along is likely to get a thorough "talking to" from his department head or dean.
Here is the bottom line:
1) Scads of woefully unprepared incoming students. At PSU this is largely because the enrollment yield is atrocious, and the need for $$$ (ESPECIALLY THAT OOS TUITION MONEY) so great - that PSU is, relative to its past history, scraping bottom on who they admit.
So factor in the overall disgraceful performance of K-12, and then multiply that by the fact that PSU is now taking from a far lower level of the K-12 kids coming out.
It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to know how that works out.
2) A university driven by the sole mission of "revenue generation"
3) Parents who view Higher Education as a commodity that they buy for their kids (and, in fairness, why shouldn't they? That is how the school views it). And when they write the check, they expect (demand?) that the school provide them with a freshly minted degree of their choosing.
(While I don't see it as up close and personal, from what I hear tangentially, the same conditions apply wrt Private K-12 schools. It is a ^#%$ show that is rolling downhill like a freight train. Where the same "I am going to buy my kid a commodity - and the school is damn sure going to give it to me" applies)
Alas. Doesn't have to be this way.
Former intern of mine during their interview mentioned they graduated top ten at Michigan. I didn't realize that was 'top ten overall - not top 10%.' Went to Yale after and now slums it as a fed doing remarkable, big idea things for the U.S.
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