Team Blue: Help me understand what is going on in the Democratic Party

[Tom Paris]

Bernie/AOC could do well nationally right now. Bernie in particular -- AOC if she drops the identity politics crap... and it seems like she's trending towards that.

People are pissed about the economy broadly -- cost of living issues. Economic populism is going to sell well right now. You can sell "more like Denmark" right now.

You can take shots at "capitalism", sure. Play revolutionary and want to blow capitalism up? No, that won't sell.

When you look at something like the democratic socialists of America you get a mixture of both. The more-like-Denmark Bernie crowd, and then the (often younger) revolutionary crowd. They do exist. From what I can tell the guy at the head of it is more of a Bernie sort, not the latter. Yes, "socialist" is a bit chic right now. Republicans probably helped by crying wolf a million times over.

Abdul El-Sayed? From what I can tell, a Bernie sort.

Again, they need to do two things:

A) Crazy identity/Israel politics are not featured.
B) No revolutionaries.

If they're selling halfway feasible Bernie-esque more-like-Denmark stuff they could do well.

This is what the Americanized democratic socialists are like. Traveler is right above that some of those ideas are crazy which is why I don’t see those being campaigned on because they won’t happen and the candidates aren’t for them. None of them want to eliminate the country’s police departments. ICE being dismantled in its current form? I think moderates are for that too.

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

ICE being dismantled in its current form? I think moderates are for that too.

You think "moderates" want to abandon immigration enforcement?

Of course your retaradedgymteacherass thinks something so goddamnedstupid

 

[Tom Paris]

Yeah, I went to their website and was disappointed. Some real batshit stuff in there, like you point out. I don't know how organized they really are. Kind of BLM back in the day... on their official website there was some crazy stuff, people that considered themselves part of BLM had a bunch of different ideas, wasn't a well organized political worldview.

Who are the leaders touting that stuff? I’ll look in a minute.

What were you looking at because I fail to find the scary part…

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

 

[LafayetteBear]

He isn't ready to admit he is on the side of Hassan Piker yet (even though he is)

1. "I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down." (Jersey City is home to large numbers of Arab-Americans.)

2. "Well, it was an amazing phone call. I mean, 40 Wall Street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually before the World Trade Center the tallest, and then when they built the World Trade Center it became known as the second-tallest, and now it's the tallest."

I don't even need to mention that name of the moron who came out with these statements. The MAGA'ts here know. They voted for him three (3) times.

 

[LafayetteBear]

"Campained?" Yeah, he's a brilliant commentator. No wonder you cited him with approval.

 

[Tom Paris]

I’m assuming this Andre clown is that Ryan idiot from HROT?? Same “person”.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Can’t even admit he voted for the worst candidate in US political history

Donald Trump?

Nope. 0/3.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

He isn't ready to admit he is on the side of Hassan Piker yet (even though he is)

Oh, shut ur b*tch azz up, Harvard Homo.

You know damn well where I stand politically.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

How is he wrong?

If he’s right, then how is he any different than the “I had no other choice” Trump voters?

Bear in mind whom you are responding to (because that mother f#cker walked the walk and talked the talk).

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Sure, those things are good ideas and widely held by many people across the political spectrum. And if that was all they believed I would support them. But they yhave some awfully loony-tunes platform ideas. The DSA platform also calls for the following:

• Abolish all police and all prisons
• Eliminate the senate
• Nationalize large corporations
• Eliminate the public vote for the presidency, have it chosen by the House of Representatives
• Eliminate the senate
• Have the Supreme Court chosen by the house
• Make Jerusalem the capital of Palestine
• Pay reparations to atone for slavery
• Build a sh*t ton of public housing
• Make college free for everyone

Those are absolutely batsh*t crazy ideas. So nah, I’m not going to support nutbags who literally publish those things on their website - even if some of their policies align with mine.

Odd, how they love to omit those bulleted points from the list of “explain to me why you’re not Team Blue” diatribes.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Link to those beliefs because much of that I have never seen before, after doing a bit of reading about DS over the years. Those read like boogeyman made up crap that won’t happen.

You have not once heard any Team Blue Democrat talk about reparations and “free” sh*t? Not once?

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

Oh, shut ur b*tch azz up, Harvard Homo.

You know damn well where I stand politically.

I know you stand biologically at, "an old man with a fetish IS a woman."

 

[Scrubby]

Oh, shut ur b*tch azz up, Harvard Homo.

You know damn well where I stand politically.

Yeah, in the camp with the trannies and Muslim extremists. Weird place to be, teach..

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Bernie/AOC could do well nationally right now. Bernie in particular -- AOC if she drops the identity politics crap... and it seems like she's trending towards that.

People are pissed about the economy broadly -- cost of living issues. Economic populism is going to sell well right now. You can sell "more like Denmark" right now.

You can take shots at "capitalism", sure. Play revolutionary and want to blow capitalism up? No, that won't sell.

When you look at something like the democratic socialists of America you get a mixture of both. The more-like-Denmark Bernie crowd, and then the (often younger) revolutionary crowd. They do exist. From what I can tell the guy at the head of it is more of a Bernie sort, not the latter. Yes, "socialist" is a bit chic right now. Republicans probably helped by crying wolf a million times over.

Abdul El-Sayed? From what I can tell, a Bernie sort.

Again, they need to do two things:

A) Crazy identity/Israel politics are not featured.
B) No revolutionaries.

If they're selling halfway feasible Bernie-esque more-like-Denmark stuff they could do well.

Uhhh…you do realize Donald Trump ran on populism in addition to white nationalism, correct? Just saying.

Liberals also need to understand what Danish “socialism” is and what it isn’t.

1. Denmark ranks high for GDP per capita at roughly $84,000 (Norway is over $100k). They don’t accomplish that by government takeover of private industries. In fact, Denmark and other Scandinavian countries rank in the top 10 for economic freedom and market innovation.

2. The “free” healthcare system is anything but. Now, I am not criticizing the system, because it seems to work for Danes, but it is not “free,” as it is obviously subsidized through high taxes. It also needs to be clarified that not everything in Danish healthcare is paid for by the government. For example, the Danish government does not pay for everyone’s prescription medications. Danes pay out of pocket, with plenty of government subsidies, sure, but medications are not automatically paid for by the government. Psychiatry services also require copays. Just so we’re clear.

The other part that gets lost in this discussion is the why behind how the system works so well in that part of the world.

1. Denmark has very strict immigration laws, and I mean very strict. They do so to protect the social welfare system from being overran by foreigners. So, if you think US immigration laws are bad, well, lol, I suggest not taking a peek at Danish immigration laws.

2. The United States is around 42% for what is considered obesity for adults. Danes are somewhere below 15%.

3. 75% of Danes are considered meeting WHO standards for physical activity and exercise.

Guess what? The demand for healthcare is not as significant as it is in the United States given the vast majority of Danes are physically fit and healthy. That is another big piece of sustainability in their healthcare system. FYI


So, sure, when Bernie and other like-minded politicians start firing up crowds with “free college education, free healthcare” rhetoric, many liberals (especially young ones) are going to cheer and hoot and holler. I mean, after all, all that we need to do is just tax those greedy billionaires and all of America’s solvency problems just go away, right?

Lol.

Yes, the federal government of the United States needs a major makeover that will never happen with our indentured servitude to the two-party system, but if you think Bernie’s “abracadabra” magic socialism wand is going to make oligarchies disappear and more balanced economic prosperity magically appear (with loads of free sh*t to boot) then you might as well look in the mirror the next time you laugh at a Trump chump who believed wars and inflation would go away as quickly as a Mexican-funded wall would be erected.

Reality, bruh. Let’s all step into it.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Yeah, in the camp with the trannies and Muslim extremists. Weird place to be, teach..

Stop sucking so bad at trolling, bruh.

Your game has been weak sauce for a long time now.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

I know you stand biologically at, "an old man with a fetish IS a woman."

^ Who dafuq is this clown?

Ignore (click)

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

^ Who dafuq is this clown?

Ignore (click)

You DON'T believe @TarponSpringsNole

IS

A

WOMAN?

@hawkeyetraveler
@alaskanseminole
@lucas80

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Link to those beliefs because much of that I have never seen before, after doing a bit of reading about DS over the years. Those read like boogeyman made up crap that won’t happen.

Here is the page from their actual website.

DSA platform

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

3% of the population = 10,000,000. 19 hijackers took down the WTCs and cost the taxpayers trillions over the next generation...

I hope you're joking here. You're seriously condemning an entire population of millions based on the actions of a few??? You sure that's where you want to go?

Not one of the 19 were US citizens. Most were Saudis. Guess we better nuke Saudi Arabia.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

Here is the page from their actual website.

DSA platform

Roflmao. That’s a serious platform ?

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Roflmao. That’s a serious platform ?

Yep, this is the DSA platform…and people wonder why I think the Dems are loony toons for embracing this. It’s going to backfire on them, maybe not this fall because it is too new, but definitely by 2028.

And the biggest problem IMO is that some of these topics (e.g. Medicare for all) are worth debating, but they are going to get thrown away because they are wrapped up with things that Americans won’t tolerate. It’s akin to how DOGE took a good concept (reducing federal waste) and ruined the topic due to how they did it.

 

[HoggI74]

I hope you're joking here. You're seriously condemning an entire population of millions based on the actions of a few??? You sure that's where you want to go?

Not one of the 19 were US citizens. Most were Saudis. Guess we better nuke Saudi Arabia.

You're the one claiming that the number of extremists in a group of 10 million is negligible - your words not mine, yet 19 extremists ( seems like a very negligible number ) continue to this day costing lives and trillions of dollars. Yes trillions since 9/11...

I know where they came from. Think how much easier an inside job has become. It will happen again...

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I don’t know what that has to do with the OP.

Do you honestly believe I voted for Kamala?

No, I voted against Trump. So, I don’t understand the criticism you are directing at me.

You didn't get that? Really? I don't GAF why you voted for Harris. You said you did so take that up with your own conscience.

I voted for Kamala.

I would not vote for this guy.

You said you wouldn't vote for Abdul El-Sayed. I pointed out that millions said the same thing about Harris in 2024 and their refusal gave us four more years of Trump. Idiotic tariff fights. ICE murdering US citizens in the streets. A war in Iran we can't win. They bear responsibility for Donald Trump as surely as if they had voted for him.

When you climb up on your high horse after viewing the candidates and refuse to make a choice... you make a choice. And you don't get to pretend you're not accountable for the consequences. If your refusal to vote for the candidate you find least objectionable gives you someone orders of magnitude worse - you bear responsibility for that outcome. Don't pretend otherwise and we have no problem.

 

[Aardvark86]

From reading your posts, you come off as a smart guy, conservative & reasonable. Who would you support in the WI race for governor - DSA candidate Francesca Hong(who has dozens of tweets that she's being attacked for), or GOP candidate Tom Tiffany(2020 election denier, has no clear policies other than being proudly MAGA, & I swear to God this is true - blasting ads saying Hong & Madison wants to "mutilate your kids when you send them to school.")

To be clear I know literally nothing about either of them (and I actually try to make it a bit of a point not to think much about candidates I can’t vote for).

with that said, taking the respective parody descriptions of each as you’ve presented them, I might well abstain (as I’ve done on rare occasions and I don’t take lightly). As I’ve said elsewhere, when faced with a hobsons choice, you return to first principles of what you’re actually for. Nothing you’ve described for either checks any boxes. The election denier thing is a huge black mark for me. So is dsa principles, though again I don’t obsess over tweets one way or the other. And I’ve long since given up on the tone of campaign ads. But I honestly have no idea as I do t pick by color

but to illustrate in An election I will be voting in. For the first time in my life I will not be voting for mark warner who I greatly respect for his judgement and his professionalism. But his support of redistricting was strikes 1, 2, and 3. Elections are about representation of local constituencies, not parties, and when you lose sight of that, it’s time to resign. Process is way more important than 95% of the policy issues of the day.

now will I vote for misuzawa? I have no idea as I haven’t done my homework. Presumptively yes but he could easily do something stupid enough to lose my vote, even if the independent sounded a little kooky.

 

[gohawks50]

Here is the page from their actual website.

DSA platform

El-Sayed definitely supports some policies that are also part of the DSA platform, like Medicare for All and abolishing ICE. But that doesn't mean he's running on the DSA platform. He's not a DSA member, and I haven't seen anything showing that he supports some of the much more sweeping parts of their platform, like abolishing the Senate and Electoral College, replacing the two-party system with a multiparty system, or putting major corporations under public ownership.

There are Democratic candidates who are DSA members or have been endorsed by the DSA, and many of them support a good portion of its agenda. But I haven't found a current Democratic House or Senate nominee who has said they support the entire DSA national platform. Even among DSA-backed candidates, there are differences over individual positions.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

El-Sayed definitely supports some policies that are also part of the DSA platform, like Medicare for All and abolishing ICE. But that doesn't mean he's running on the DSA platform. He's not a DSA member, and I haven't seen anything showing that he supports some of the much more sweeping parts of their platform, like abolishing the Senate and Electoral College, replacing the two-party system with a multiparty system, or putting major corporations under public ownership.

There are Democratic candidates who are DSA members or have been endorsed by the DSA, and many of them support a good portion of its agenda. But I haven't found a current Democratic House or Senate nominee who has said they support the entire DSA national platform. Even among DSA-backed candidates, there are differences over individual positions.

I did not intend to conflate him with DSA…I think he is a regular progressive. I wasn’t trying to imply otherwise.

I think people like him will need to be decide how much they associate with the DSA, because the stink of the DSA platform will be hard to rub off once right wing media gets rolling.

 

[RoseBowlorBust]

Hats off to team

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

You didn't get that? Really? I don't GAF why you voted for Harris. You said you did so take that up with your own conscience.



You said you wouldn't vote for Abdul El-Sayed. I pointed out that millions said the same thing about Harris in 2024 and their refusal gave us four more years of Trump. Idiotic tariff fights. ICE murdering US citizens in the streets. A war in Iran we can't win. They bear responsibility for Donald Trump as surely as if they had voted for him.

When you climb up on your high horse after viewing the candidates and refuse to make a choice... you make a choice. And you don't get to pretend you're not accountable for the consequences. If your refusal to vote for the candidate you find least objectionable gives you someone orders of magnitude worse - you bear responsibility for that outcome. Don't pretend otherwise and we have no problem.

I didn’t regret my vote for Harris back then, and knowing what I know today, I am even more sure of my vote today.

In truth, I would have not voted for El-Sayed in 2024 if in the scenario you are suggesting he was the Democratic nominee running against Trump. I probably would have done a write-in vote for Deez Nuts or Dixon Cox, if I am being honest

And knowing what I know today, I would have lived to regret it because of the Epstein Files and Iran.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Hats off to team

For a primary win against an established Democrat?

 

[alaskanseminole]

Elderly woman in liberal utopia lolol

Are Muslims "liberal", though? They seem pretty overtly hyper-conservative to me. Same-sex sexual relationships are sinful. Sex outside marriage is sinful.
Pornography is forbidden. Alcohol is forbidden. Gambling is forbidden. Daily prayer and fasting are religious obligations. Heck, I'd better be careful otherwise the MAGAs will start voting for them in droves.

 

[alaskanseminole]

^ Who dafuq is this clown?

Ignore (click)

My ignore list. LOL

Hotel > aCEOuProbablyKnow > AndreWoolridgeB10MVP

 

[lucas80]

Saying there's no daylight between communists and democratic socialists is somewhat wild to me.

You weren't around Aardvark in 2024 when he clutched his pearls non-stop on HROT over who he should vote for? The WOC with a funny laugh who would probably destroy America, the guy who'd already staged a bloody coup, or Chanse Oliver, a principled 3rd party candidate.

 

[Scrubby]

Are Muslims "liberal", though? They seem pretty overtly hyper-conservative to me. Same-sex sexual relationships are sinful. Sex outside marriage is sinful.
Pornography is forbidden. Alcohol is forbidden. Gambling is forbidden. Daily prayer and fasting are religious obligations. Heck, I'd better be careful otherwise the MAGAs will start voting for them in droves.

Lol they're certainly not conservative capitalists

 

[Tom Paris]

Odd, how they love to omit those bulleted points from the list of “explain to me why you’re not Team Blue” diatribes.

Well because they’re bullsh.it.

 

[alaskanseminole]

Lol they're certainly not conservative capitalists

But they check all the other boxes! They'd support y'all's Pornhub ban. They'd lock Huey and Tarp away and toss the key. You could go to church EVERY DAY. They'd bring back prohibition. ...all the things you Christian Nationalist's LOVE!

 

[Tom Paris]

You have not once heard any Team Blue Democrat talk about reparations and “free” sh*t? Not once?

Yeah completely out of freaking context. Half the time democrats are having to play defense -like right now with this communist garbage- because Republicans lie about what they are actually going to do. You know this.

 

[Scrubby]

But they check all the other boxes! They'd support y'all's Pornhub ban. They'd lock Huey and Tarp away and toss the key. You could go to church EVERY DAY. They'd bring back prohibition. ...all the things you Christian Nationalist's LOVE!

Doubtful, Hassan brags about his porn addiction and paying prostitutes in foreign countries/red light districts to sleep with him too lol

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Well because they’re bullsh.it.

They are not bullsh*t. I literally linked the page from their actual website. And there are other pages where they reiterate these points too. You are more than capable of finding these points from DSA sites and DSA leaders.

If you are unwilling to understand their actual platform what makes you different from the MAGA types that put their head in the sand when Trump goes off his rocker?

 

[Tom Paris]

You have not once heard any Team Blue Democrat talk about reparations and “free” sh*t? Not once?

Oh…free sh.it??? You mean like what billionaires get? I would rather our tax dollars go to free college and educate our populace than to bombing kids in schools and propping up foreign countries. We can’t have “free” stuff because our money goes towards Israel and Argentina’s free stuff.