Clay Travis challenge to WNBA: a WNBA game even I would watch

[ctgarric]

Again, I haven't really thought about it but I guess there is a correlation. I don't agree with what the democrats are pushing in sports but I didn't understand this thread to be political. I honestly thought you all were just pumping your chest because high school boys could beat professional girls.

Clay Travis put this up because the WNBA, as an organization, has been carrying the banner for Trans Athletes. To the point that some coaches have made public comments during press conferences. In addition, Sophie Cunningham has taken serious heat for speaking out against boys in girls sports.

That is why he has put his money where his mouth is and said 'Fine, I'll put up $10 million for the League Champion to play a State High School team.'

 

[DannyTree1]

A'ja Wilson has said that she can beat some NBA players one on one.

We love A'ja but that's BS.

The offer from Clay Travis is great because it shuts up the WNBA.

I'd love to watch our women's team in a live scrimmage against the young men they practice against.

Lou williams who had a 16 year NBA career also said he thought Aja could beat some NBA players in a one on one situation. Dwayne Wade said the same thing.

I can imagine some situations where she could hold her on. It appears all of them were talking about scoring on NBA players as in beat them in a one on one situation by scoring on them- not beating them to 50 points or something. I think people read a quote and they don't actually dive into what intent was meant.

Why does it "shut up the WBNA?" What players and teams are saying they could beat an NBA team? I've yet to see anyone claim that.

It seems designed to try to humiliate them. It's like a Clemson fan claiming someone shut up our football program and university by "calling their bluff" that they can't beat the Seattle Seahawks.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Lou williams who had a 16 year NBA career also said he thought Aja could beat some NBA players in a one on one situation. Dwayne Wade said the same thing.

I can imagine some situations where she could hold her on.

Yes, I could imagine if you pitted the #1 female basketball player on the planet against a benchwarmer in the NBA, she might score a few baskets.

 

[Lurker123]

It seems designed to try to humiliate them.

I vote you keep repeating that. Having it explained to you as simply as possible, and you not being able to understand speaks volumes.

 

[DannyTree1]

It probably wouldn't be if not for people constantly preaching how great the WNBA is and that they are as good as men and them wearing shirts saying "pay us what you owe us" and crap like that. If not for that, I really wouldn't care. Like the USWNT. I actually liked them (as much as I like soccer) and rooted for them until they got all militant and demanded equality with the USMNT.

There are people that greatly enjoy the WNBA. I would suspect people that enjoy something talk about how great it is and how much they like it. This is routine and people do this with all sorts of things and issues.

We live in different worlds. I've never heard anyone claim that the WNBA players and teams are as great as NBA teams. I don't even understand the comparison and have never heard anyone claim such a thing. Has anyone ever claimed it? Probably- but there is someone out there somewhere that claimed the Carolina Panthers should have won the Super Bowl last year too. I don't talk about them either.

Why wouldn't WNBA players be asking for more pay? I sure have asked my employer for more pay many times over the years. Of course they should ask for more pay. I respect people that stand up for themselves. I did a quick, basic search about the issue.

WNBA players have never asked for the same salaries as NBA players; instead, they are advocating for a fairer percentage of the league's shared revenue.

 

[18IsTheMan]

There are people that greatly enjoy the WNBA. I would suspect people that enjoy something talk about how great it is and how much they like it. This is routine and people do this with all sorts of things and issues.

We live in different worlds. I've never heard anyone claim that the WNBA players and teams are as great as NBA teams. I don't even understand the comparison and have never heard anyone claim such a thing. Has anyone ever claimed it? Probably- but there is someone out there somewhere that claimed the Carolina Panthers should have won the Super Bowl last year too. I don't talk about them either.

Why wouldn't WNBA players be asking for more pay? I sure have asked my employer for more pay many times over the years. Of course they should ask for more pay. I respect people that stand up for themselves. I did a quick, basic search about the issue.

WNBA players have never asked for the same salaries as NBA players; instead, they are advocating for a fairer percentage of the league's shared revenue.

What is shared revenue in a league that has never turned a profit?

 

[DannyTree1]

Clay Travis put this up because the WNBA, as an organization, has been carrying the banner for Trans Athletes. To the point that some coaches have made public comments during press conferences. In addition, Sophie Cunningham has taken serious heat for speaking out against boys in girls sports.

That is why he has put his money where his mouth is and said 'Fine, I'll put up $10 million for the League Champion to play a State High School team.'

So, because some people in the WNBA have taken positions in support of trans people, he wants to humiliate them by paying them to play a high school boys team?

The WNBA has no trans players. A team of high school boys is not a team of trans players. They aren't the same thing.

Trans girls (women) take female hormones that drastically lower their testosterone and continually suppresses it. They take estrogen and anti-androgens. This reduces muscle mass, it contributes to breast development and changes fat distribution in the body, reduces body hair, and other feminizing effects on the body.

They aren't remotely the same thing. It's a PR gimmick by someone that thinks a high school boys team is the same thing as a team of trans people.

 

[DannyTree1]

What is shared revenue in a league that has never turned a profit?

Revenue and profit are two different things. You have to know this.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Revenue and profit are two different things. You have to know this.

Of course, but how can you share money when you aren't making any money? Do you not see the lunacy in players demanding a share of revenue in a league that has only ever lost money? The NBA can afford a 51% revenue split b/c they have money to spare. The WNBA can barely keep its head above water financially (and would not be able to do so without being heavily subsidized by the NBA), yet the players want to cut into that with increased revenue sharing.

League: "We lost $50 million last year"

Players: "We want our fair share"

It's the same retarded nonsense as the USWNT wanting equal pay to the USMNT. The USMNT generates revenue the USWNT can only dream of.

 

[DannyTree1]

Of course, but how can you share money when you aren't making any money? Do you not see the lunacy in players demanding a share of revenue in a league that has only ever lost money? The NBA can afford a 51% revenue split b/c they have money to spare. The WNBA can barely keep its head above water financially (and would not be able to do so without being heavily subsidized by the NBA), yet the players want to cut into that with increased revenue sharing.

The WNBA made between $250million and $300 million last year. The CBA the players negotiated means they get revenue sharing when profits hit a certain point. The campaign players undertook was to increase their percentage of revenue sharing when the league hits certain targets.

Some teams are building new, facilities just for their teams. In one case I read about, the arena just sold naming rights for something like $60 or $70 million dollars. Because the players stood up for themselves, they get a percentage of that money. Good for them. That's the way it should be.

All routine stuff. Very logical. Why would someone - anyone- in pro sports not advocate for themselves for an increased share of revenue when their league makes over a certain thresh-hold? To not advocate for themselves would be really stupid.

It's illogical to expect WNBA players to do something that no other pro athletes would do- and most employees of any kind wouldn't do if they had any opportunity.

I know at my company, when we make our targets, we expect to get our bonus- that we fought for, argued for, and negotiated through our employee relations committee. We also realize that at some point in the past, we had employees that stood up and fought hard for what we enjoy today.

 

[18IsTheMan]

The WNBA made between $250million and $300 million last year. The CBA the players negotiated means they get revenue sharing when profits hit a certain point. The campaign players undertook was to increase their percentage of revenue sharing when the league hits certain targets.

Some teams are building new, smaller facilities just of their teams. In one case I read about, the arena just sold naming rights for something like $60 or $70 million dollars. Because the players stood up for themselves, they get a percentage of that money. Good for them. That's the way it should be.

All routine stuff. Very logical. Why would someone - anyone- in pro sports not advocate for themselves for an increased share of revenue when their league makes over a certain thresh-hold? To not advocate for themselves would be really stupid.

It's illogical to expect WNBA players to do something that no other pro athletes would do- and most employees of any kind wouldn't do if they had any opportunity.

I know at my company, when we make our targets, we expect to get our bonus- that we fought for, argued for, and negotiated through our employee relations committee. We also realize that at some point in the past, we had employees that stood up and fought hard for what we enjoy today.

Had your company lost money every single year for the last quarter century?

The comedy is compounded by the fact that the league is STILL heavily subsidized by the NBA. "Hi league, we know you would not be able to carry on operations without this money being gifted to you by the NBA. Anyway, we want more money."

 

[Lurker123]

Had your company lost money every single year for the last quarter century?

The comedy is compounded by the fact that the league is STILL heavily subsidized by the NBA. "Hi league, we know you would not be able to carry on operations without this money being gifted to you by the NBA. Anyway, we want more money."

Don't forget the big new TV deal the wnba was so excited about was negotiated as a joint deal with the nba. So even their negotiations for TV have to rely on NBA clout.

 

[Lurker123]

So, because some people in the WNBA have taken positions in support of trans people, he wants to humiliate them by paying them to play a high school boys team?

Thank you.


I vote you keep repeating that. Having it explained to you as simply as possible, and you not being able to understand speaks volumes.

 

[DannyTree1]

Had your company lost money every single year for the last quarter century?

The comedy is compounded by the fact that the league is STILL heavily subsidized by the NBA. "Hi league, we know you would not be able to carry on operations without this money being gifted to you by the NBA. Anyway, we want more money."

No- but we have had years where we lost money- and they still handed out bonuses because that's in our employee policy agreement. I don't think that is particularly unusual.

Wasn't there some big ESPN story about 15-20 years ago where they revealed a surprising number of large college football programs actually lost money- but their coaches and staff sure were paid well while they were losing money.

I remember when Wells Fargo was having all their issues with their CEO's .etc- and went through a load of senior executives in just a few years- all of them getting huge payouts even after getting hauled in front of Congress. Most people didn't care.

The NBA owns like 40% or more of the WNBA. That they subsidize something they own is not unusual either. (When the NBA started, it took several decades for it to be profitable and achieve financial stability). Even with Russell and Chamberlain played, the league usually operated at a loss.

All sports leagues get subsidies of one kind or another - usually from government sources through sweetheart financing deals. A number of industries get government subsidies of many kinds all while handing out huge bonuses to senior executives.

So I don't understand the big deal. You seem to hold the WNBA to a separate standard, which is quite odd.

Anyway, I'm done talking about the WNBA or NBA.

 

[18IsTheMan]

No- but we have had years where we lost money- and they still handed out bonuses because that's in our employee policy agreement. I don't think that is particularly unusual.

The NBA owns like 40% or more of the WNBA. That they subsidize something they own is not unusual either. (When the NBA started, it took several decades for it to be profitable and achieve financial stability). Even with Russell and Chamberlain played, the league usually operated at a loss.

All sports leagues get subsidies of one kind or another - usually from government sources through sweetheart financing deals. A number of industries get government subsidies of many kinds all while handing out huge bonuses to senior executives.

So I don't understand the big deal. You seem to hold the WNBA to a separate standard, which is quite odd.

Anyway, I'm done talking about the WNBA or NBA.

So you are not describing equivalent situations.

 

[18IsTheMan]

You absolutely have to laugh at the absurd hypocrisy.



Their alternating ability and inability to identify women is nothing short of amazing.

 

[Lurker123]

(When the NBA started, it took several decades for it to be profitable and achieve financial stability). Even with Russell and Chamberlain played, the league usually operated at a loss.

Anyway, I'm done talking about the WNBA or NBA.

This statement is incorrect. You are either misinformed or purposely spreading falsehoods.

I support your decision to stop talking about the subject as you add nothing of value.

 

[Lurker123]

You absolutely have to laugh at the absurd hypocrisy.



Their alternating ability and inability to identify women is nothing short of amazing.

Just think of the level of brainwashing it takes to get a woman to complain about a man taking a job, but at the same time celebrate a man taking someone else's job.

 

[gamecock stock]

I tried to stay up to watch the Rousey-Carraro "fight" on Netflix. I got tired of waiting, went to bed and determined I did not miss much. I'm not going to spend a dime to watch this game.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Just think of the level of brainwashing it takes to get a woman to complain about a man taking a job, but at the same time celebrate a man taking someone else's job.

If the ladies keep this up, they will put Babylon Bee out of business. When real life is parody, you don't need parody.

 

[adcoop]

This statement is incorrect. You are either misinformed or purposely spreading falsehoods.

I support your decision to stop talking about the subject as you add nothing of value.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/sports/financial-difficulties-in-sight-for-nba.html

Actually, the NBA incurred operating losses back in the late 70's and early 80's. The league did not become consistently profitable until the 80's (Magic/Bird era). Do some research, before you tell someone that they are lying.

 

[18IsTheMan]

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/sports/financial-difficulties-in-sight-for-nba.html

Actually, the NBA incurred operating losses back in the late 70's and early 80's. The league did not become consistently profitable until the 80's (Magic/Bird era). Do some research, before you tell someone that they are lying.

You're right, but people who compare the NBA's development to the WNBA's are making an apples to oranges comparison. For much of the 70s, there were maybe 30 nationally broadcast NBA games a year. Of course, there was no social media or internet or streaming.

The NBA went 8 seasons before it even had a nationally televised game. The very first WNBA game ever was broadcast, and they've had national coverage ever since.

The WNBA has had every advantage possible from a media coverage perspective.

 

[Lurker123]

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/sports/financial-difficulties-in-sight-for-nba.html

Actually, the NBA incurred operating losses back in the late 70's and early 80's. The league did not become consistently profitable until the 80's (Magic/Bird era). Do some research, before you tell someone that they are lying.

You and i have had this discussion before.

The NBA at 75: From a very modest beginning, to a behemoth

It started in 1946 with 11 teams and 160 players. The shot clock was nearly a decade away, the 3-point line was a couple generations away. Buildings were smaller.

apnews.com

By 1949, the NBA had turned a corner. The league was up to 17 teams, more than doubling what it was. Teams were turning profits. The rebranding to the NBA was complete. And with the evolution in the boardrooms complete, it was time to evolve on the floor as well.

It took roughly 3 years to start to turn a profit.

Try reading the actual post before responding. I know you like to follow me around and try to get a "gotcha" moments, but its getting embarrassing for you.

Have you talked to a Dr yet? Or at least broached the dementia subject with your family?

 

[Lurker123]

You're right,

He's actually not.

The rest of your post is spot on.

 

[gamecock stock]

Have you talked to a Dr yet? Or at least broached the dementia subject with your family?

In my case, my children have brought up my hearing. But, I suspect that it's only a matter of time before they bring up the subject of dementia with me.

 

[Lurker123]

In my case, my children have brought up my hearing. But, I suspect that it's only a matter of time before they bring up the subject of dementia with me.

I dealt with a family member who had it. It was a struggle. And all petty insults aside, I see warning signs. My queation to him was actually in earnest.

You know well that I get enjoyment out of back and forths, but pity is starting to take over.

 

[gamecock stock]

I dealt with a family member who had it. It was a struggle. And all petty insults aside, I see warning signs. My queation to him was actually in earnest.

You know well that I get enjoyment out of back and forths, but pity is starting to take over.

Sorry to hear about your struggle with your family member's condition. I will never forget an Uncle (who eventually died from it) looking at me, 15 years ago, and asking me, "Who are you?" That was a punch in the stomach

 

[DannyTree1]

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/sports/financial-difficulties-in-sight-for-nba.html

Actually, the NBA incurred operating losses back in the late 70's and early 80's. The league did not become consistently profitable until the 80's (Magic/Bird era). Do some research, before you tell someone that they are lying.

Discussing the business. While a few teams were able to make money- the league lost money. Not until 3-4 decades in did they start becoming profitable as a league. An unprofitable league in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

This is well documented and not controversial.



This is actually an academic book on the subject that dives reallly deep "The Rise Of The National Basketball Association" by David G. Surdam

 

[Piscis]

That's great. I played tennis in high school. I was ok- probably the 3rd best player on our team. When I was in college, I got to know a girl that also played high school tennis. She told me she was considered the 2nd best tennis player in her conference in high school. I could only go on her word as I had no idea.

We both found out we were still playing 2-3 times a week even in college when we were both freshman.

We played down at the courts outside the PE center on the USC campus 3 or 4 times. She beat me rather easily each time- although the last time we played it was close.

I was pretty bummed about it to be honest. I was faster, I was much stronger, but she had better touch than I did and her serve was more consistent in that she didn't make mistakes with her serve like I would because I could serve faster and would get lulled into trying to hit my 2nd serve faster than I should have and would screw that up too much. She didn't have a lot of pace on her shots though but she knew it.

It doesn't really mean anything but I also would play pick up tennis with two attorneys down at the courts that would show up in the evenings who were better players than I was but I always got a boost of confidence playing them because they both would tell me they thought I was a decent player for a college kid who was just bumming around at the courts.

Anyway, she smartly would mainly play defense against me until I made a mistake and that was her game with people that were faster than her. She would also serve and volley -and she was the only player I had ever played that would do that and I had real problems being pressured to try to hit a passing shot.

Serena Williams said any male pro tennis player would destroy her and she is considered the best women's tennis player ever.

Your college gal's tactic of serve and volley was the result of good coaching. I imagine she played the same game against anyone she played. In tennis, the vast majority of points are lost, not won. One player hits the ball out of bounds or into the net much more often than a player hits a great shot the other player can't return. If a player can simply return the balls hit to them long enough, the odds are very much that the other player will make a mistake and lose the point.

 

[Piscis]

Revenue and profit are two different things. You have to know this.

I accidentally liked your comment. I meant to hit "reply".

Do you really not understand that wanting a greater share of revenue when there is no profit is ludicrous and asinine? The players are already getting a share of revenue. Where do you think the money they are paid comes from?

Businesses in the real world, who don't have another business acting as their Sugar Daddy go bankrupt when their employees are getting a share of revenue (all payroll is a share of revenue) and the business doesn't have any profit.

 

[Lurker123]

Anyway, I'm done talking about the WNBA or NBA.

Four posts later...

Discussing the business. While a few teams.....

Laughable, and yet completely in character.

 

[DannyTree1]

Serena Williams said any male pro tennis player would destroy her and she is considered the best women's tennis player ever.

Your college gal's tactic of serve and volley was the result of good coaching. I imagine she played the same game against anyone she played. In tennis, the vast majority of points are lost, not won. One player hits the ball out of bounds or into the net much more often than a player hits a great shot the other player can't return. If a player can simply return the balls hit to them long enough, the odds are very much that the other player will make a mistake and lose the point.

Yes, she was smart. She was pretty quick too but I was the faster player. I was stronger and could put much more pace on my shots. But she had a more consistent backhand and serve than I did. I played a lot of tennis back then but I think she played more than I did. She was a very good defensive player. But she played like that against other women too because I watched her play a number of matches down on the Blatt PE courts. I wish I had played more tennis with her as she was a willing partner but I let her beating me bug me- not because she was female- just because the guys I played with at the time I could beat 75% of the time.

 

[DannyTree1]

I accidentally liked your comment. I meant to hit "reply".

Do you really not understand that wanting a greater share of revenue when there is no profit is ludicrous and asinine? The players are already getting a share of revenue. Where do you think the money they are paid comes from?

Businesses in the real world, who don't have another business acting as their Sugar Daddy go bankrupt when their employees are getting a share of revenue (all payroll is a share of revenue) and the business doesn't have any profit.

I understand the issue very well as I've read 3 articles about it in the last 2 days- which is time I can't get back.

The CBA dictates they don't get revenue sharing unless the profit is at a certain level. So your point is really moot as the revenue sharing doesn't apply in the case you described in your post.

The players who were arguing for more of a % in revenue sharing were arguing for a higher percentage if a certain profit thresh-hold was reached- which makes perfect sense - and they did reach that agreement. They weren't arguing for more if they didn't make any profit at all- which would make no sense.

 

[Piscis]

Discussing the business. While a few teams were able to make money- the league lost money. Not until 3-4 decades in did they start becoming profitable as a league. An unprofitable league in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

This is well documented and not controversial.

View attachment 1383240

This is actually an academic book on the subject that dives reallly deep "The Rise Of The National Basketball Association" by David G. Surdam

View attachment 1383243

A major difference was, when an NBA team wasn't profitable in the 1960s to 1980s, the team owner had to make up the losses. There was no other basketball league stepping in to prop the teams up. Also, $12,000 a year in the 1960s was not really "modest income", a school teacher in 1965 made around $6000 a year, so $12,000 a year playing basketball wasn't exactly poverty wages. An NBA player could enjoy a pretty nice lifestyle on $12,000 a year.

 

[Piscis]

The CBA dictates they don't get revenue sharing unless the profit is at a certain level. So your point is really moot as the revenue sharing doesn't apply in the case you described in your post.

So, now the problem is they don't like the contract they agreed to. I suggest they negotiate terms they like better when they negotiate their next CBA. I'm sure the threat of a strike will force the league and owners to cave and give them what they want.

 

[DannyTree1]

So, now the problem is they don't like the contract they agreed to. I suggest they negotiate terms they like better when they negotiate their next CBA. I'm sure the threat of a strike will force the league and owners to cave and give them what they want.

lots of people argue for more money and more percentages in their next contracts. That's routine- happens all the time, especially in professional sports.

Some people are already talking about an NFL lockout in 5 years- because of the demands the player's union is already floating. Again, this is routine. I wouldn't expect the WNBA to be different in regard to what players try to negotiate.

I am happy with my salary. But you can bet every penny you have when it comes time to talk to my supervisor about my next salary increase, I will be asking for more. In fact, I've already mentioned it to him a few times and he's well aware of it- and he's ok with me telling him as we've been down this road many times.

 

[Piscis]

lots of people argue for more money and more percentages in their next contracts. That's routine- happens all the time, especially in professional sports.

Some people are already talking about an NFL lockout in 5 years- because of the demands the player's union is already floating. Again, this is routine. I wouldn't expect the WNBA to be different in regard to what players try to negotiate.

I am happy with my salary. But you can bet every penny you have when it comes time to talk to my supervisor about my next salary increase, I will be asking for more. In fact, I've already mentioned it to him a few times and he's well aware of it- and he's ok with me telling him as we've been down this road many times.

I hope the company you work for is at a level of profitability that will allow them to give you more money next time. If not, I can promise you they will not go in the hole to pay you more and I doubt there is another company that will step in and give them money so they can hand out raises when they aren't hitting their profitability target.

 

[DannyTree1]

A major difference was, when an NBA team wasn't profitable in the 1960s to 1980s, the team owner had to make up the losses. There was no other basketball league stepping in to prop the teams up. Also, $12,000 a year in the 1960s was not really "modest income", a school teacher in 1965 made around $6000 a year, so $12,000 a year playing basketball wasn't exactly poverty wages. An NBA player could enjoy a pretty nice lifestyle on $12,000 a year.

A lot of them didn't make up the losses- plenty of them went out of business.

But that wasn't the point of my post. I was posting that the NBA wasn't profitable for a long time- decades. The league didn't fold. Players didn't stop asking for raises or more money. Salaries increased- even when the league wasn't profitable.

Again, routine. Nothing unusual about it.

I don't want to argue about what is a modest income versus what isn't. The average baseball salary in the 60s was in the $17k to $20k range. So I would guess the person who called it modest was also comparing it to other pro sports leagues- at least on some level. Plus, the article was written for a modern audience who might not understand that pro basketball players in the 1960s weren't making $1,000,000 million a year.

Making double what a teacher made isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But wasn't really the point of what I was discussing either.

 

[DannyTree1]

I hope the company you work for is at a level of profitability that will allow them to give you more money next time. If not, I can promise you they will not go in the hole to pay you more and I doubt there is another company that will step in and give them money so they can hand out raises when they aren't hitting their profitability target.

I do too- but when I negotiate, I don't ask for a company profit and loss statement. I ask for a raise if I think I did a good job for them. My boss can either give me one or not. But I don't negotiate against myself. Who would do something that stupid?

if my owner was a billionaire or a multi-millionaire with a habit of spending a lot of money, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over asking for more money

and like WNBA players, I especially wouldn't lose any sleep over asking for an increase in my profit sharing to kick in only WHEN THE COMPANY had a year where they made a profit.

 

[Piscis]

I do too- but when I negotiate, I don't ask for a company profit and loss statement. I ask for a raise if I think I did a good job for them. My boss can either give me one or not. But I don't negotiate against myself. Who would do something that stupid?

if my owner was a billionaire or a multi-millionaire with a habit of spending a lot of money, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over asking for more money

and like WNBA players, I especially wouldn't lose any sleep over asking for an increase in my profit sharing to kick in only WHEN THE COMPANY had a year where they made a profit.

How much money your boss/owner has has nothing at all to do with how much the business can pay its employees. If he does have a lot of money, he has it because he is smart enough to not pay more to his employees when the business isn't making a healthy profit.

By definition, "profit sharing" requires the business to make a profit. If the business does not make a profit, there is no profit to share.