OT: College enrollment and financial issues?

[T2Kplus20]

As for the enrollment issue (maybe paywalled, but I think most can get a free article). Bottom line, college should face the demo cliff from now until 2041:

The Looming College-Enrollment Death Spiral

After many decades of democratization, higher education could once again become a luxury good.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Leonard23]

Hey, I can see your posts now. LOL! Deleted my long forgotten ignore list last week since traffic on the site is so much lighter. No need to filter anything anymore.

I guess you can combine a language/culture studies with international business or something like that. However, that does make the education more narrowly focused.

And yes, I do see a greater need for languages than the other "studies" majors we are talking about. Studying a world language in HS is very important and continuing that in college perhaps as a minor makes perfect sense.

Consulting firms and other companies like philosophy and other critical thinking, problem solving and analytical majors.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Consulting firms and other companies like philosophy and other critical thinking, problem solving and analytical majors.

True, but those are very different majors than the "studies" we are talking about.

 

[mdk02]

As for the enrollment issue (maybe paywalled, but I think most can get a free article). Bottom line, college should face the demo cliff from now until 2041:

The Looming College-Enrollment Death Spiral

After many decades of democratization, higher education could once again become a luxury good.

www.theatlantic.com

It is paywalled, but I can't agree with the initial paragraphs I could read. It said the national, prestige brands which they say cater to the wealthy will do fine. Agreed. But they go on to say the schools which are frequented by the middle and lower class commuter students will suffer. I don't see it. The public four year (no grad programs) and particularly the 2 year community colleges will get by with continued state support. The contraction will be among the 4 year private schools that catch those students who didn't get into the national prestige schools and have Shop Rite parents. BTW, the "national prestige schools" have enough scholarship money so the student body are not all named Biff and Muffy.

 

[T2Kplus20]

It is paywalled, but I can't agree with the initial paragraphs I could read. It said the national, prestige brands which they say cater to the wealthy will do fine. Agreed. But they go on to say the schools which are frequented by the middle and lower class commuter students will suffer. I don't see it. The public four year (no grad programs) and particularly the 2 year community colleges will get by with continued state support. The contraction will be among the 4 year private schools that catch those students who didn't get into the national prestige schools and have Shop Rite parents. BTW, the "national prestige schools" have enough scholarship money so the student body are not all named Biff and Muffy.

Agreed. The mediocre high-cost privates are going to get hit first and the hardest. This is already happening to the Rider's and Cuse's of the world.

 

[Leonard23]

Penn State tuition will be higher in 2027 as university grapples with lost revenue, higher personnel costs

The Penn State board of trustees has approved tuition increases and millions of dollars in spending cuts for the 2027-28 fiscal year as the university grapples with surging payroll expenses and lost tuition revenue due to declining enrollment.

www.mcall.com

 

[T2Kplus20]

Penn State tuition will be higher in 2027 as university grapples with lost revenue, higher personnel costs

The Penn State board of trustees has approved tuition increases and millions of dollars in spending cuts for the 2027-28 fiscal year as the university grapples with surging payroll expenses and lost tuition revenue due to declining enrollment.

www.mcall.com

I would say good for them (LOL!) but this is a demo trend that will impact everyone. Still, fun to read those Syracuse train wreck articles.

 

[NotInRHouse]

It is paywalled, but I can't agree with the initial paragraphs I could read. It said the national, prestige brands which they say cater to the wealthy will do fine. Agreed. But they go on to say the schools which are frequented by the middle and lower class commuter students will suffer. I don't see it. The public four year (no grad programs) and particularly the 2 year community colleges will get by with continued state support. The contraction will be among the 4 year private schools that catch those students who didn't get into the national prestige schools and have Shop Rite parents. BTW, the "national prestige schools" have enough scholarship money so the student body are not all named Biff and Muffy.

The question follows that are there really so many women's studies majors outside of the prestige brands (figure Ivies + Stanford/Duke caliber) and major publics like RU and Cult?

My guess is not. Most of the people I know that went to the Montclairs of the world majored in more "practical" things. With a degree from RU or better you can major in more open subjects because the degree itself has more value.

 

[Knight Shift]

Penn State tuition will be higher in 2027 as university grapples with lost revenue, higher personnel costs

The Penn State board of trustees has approved tuition increases and millions of dollars in spending cuts for the 2027-28 fiscal year as the university grapples with surging payroll expenses and lost tuition revenue due to declining enrollment.

www.mcall.com

"Trustees Joseph “Jay” Paterno Jr. and Matthew McGloin, both alumni-elected trustees, cast the sole dissenting votes but didn’t offer public remarks explaining their decision."

The Cult loves the Paternos and Paterno era players.

Also:

"Penn State faces a projected $79 million in lost tuition revenue.

Thorndike explained to trustees that because Penn State works on its budget two years in advance, several factors led to the university having lower enrollment than it had forecast — including plummeting international student numbers, federal research cuts affecting graduate enrollment, and an immediate freeze on new admissions at the seven closing campuses."

Wonder how much of the bolded items has to do with the current administration, and if this is ultimately a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Who’s gonna launch the Rutgers memecoin?

 

[Knight Shift]

Who’s gonna launch the Rutgers memecoin?

There is a typo in that X Post. It's not CRYPTOcurrency, for the Cult--- it is CREEPTOcurrency.

 

[rureadyforsomefootball]

I'll say this about Rutgers degrees. Both my sons, one a Civil Engineer and the other with a Finance degree, both work in their chosen profession. In this day and age that seems rare with so many of their friends getting jobs that have nothing to do with the degree they got. Another plus is the fact they both got huge jobs, hired by former Rutgers grads! Networking in the tri-state area has worked for my family. Go RU

 

[Knight Shift]

I'll say this about Rutgers degrees. Both my sons, one a Civil Engineer and the other with a Finance degree, both work in their chosen profession. In this day and age that seems rare with so many of their friends getting jobs that have nothing to do with the degree they got. Another plus is the fact they both got huge jobs, hired by former Rutgers grads! Networking in the tri-state area has worked for my family. Go RU

Computer Science grads have outstanding job opportunities because of the reputation of the department. My oldest was hired by a large healthcare software company in the midwest, and this company recruits CS students from Rutgers every year.

 

[Fat Koko]

"Trustees Joseph “Jay” Paterno Jr. and Matthew McGloin, both alumni-elected trustees, cast the sole dissenting votes but didn’t offer public remarks explaining their decision."

The Cult loves the Paternos and Paterno era players.

Also:

"Penn State faces a projected $79 million in lost tuition revenue.

Thorndike explained to trustees that because Penn State works on its budget two years in advance, several factors led to the university having lower enrollment than it had forecast — including plummeting international student numbers, federal research cuts affecting graduate enrollment, and an immediate freeze on new admissions at the seven closing campuses."

Wonder how much of the bolded items has to do with the current administration, and if this is ultimately a good thing or a bad thing.

International students are at or near an all time high, depending on the data used.

If Penn State's international student numbers are plummeting, that is more of a Penn State problem more than a nationwide trend.

On the federally-funded research, the administration published a report this week stating research funding will be redirected from colleges to individual scientists to bypass "decades of accumulated institutional bureaucracy." At the individual university level, funding goes up and down by tens of millions per year (PSU up $50m in last year available) so difficult to know if these research cuts are one-off or a longer trend.

IIE Open Doors / Enrollment Trends

Using Data to Open Doors

opendoorsdata.org

 

[mdk02]

The question follows that are there really so many women's studies majors outside of the prestige brands (figure Ivies + Stanford/Duke caliber) and major publics like RU and Cult?

My guess is not. Most of the people I know that went to the Montclairs of the world majored in more "practical" things. With a degree from RU or better you can major in more open subjects because the degree itself has more value.

At 2 year community colleges probably not. At 4 year (as T2K says Rider) schools I simply don't know. But I wouldn't assume they don't have them.

 

[NotInRHouse]

"Trustees Joseph “Jay” Paterno Jr. and Matthew McGloin, both alumni-elected trustees, cast the sole dissenting votes but didn’t offer public remarks explaining their decision."

The Cult loves the Paternos and Paterno era players.

Also:

"Penn State faces a projected $79 million in lost tuition revenue.

Thorndike explained to trustees that because Penn State works on its budget two years in advance, several factors led to the university having lower enrollment than it had forecast — including plummeting international student numbers, federal research cuts affecting graduate enrollment, and an immediate freeze on new admissions at the seven closing campuses."

Wonder how much of the bolded items has to do with the current administration, and if this is ultimately a good thing or a bad thing.

It's quite bad when you consider how important intl tuition is for RU and many other schools, but really awful is attack on spending, nearly all of which is for scientific causes like curing diseases. And we're seeing the results of that with measles and cyclospora among other things.

A lot of med schools also run trials for diseases that they now had to cut or trim back. For people and their loved ones with rare cancers and other disorders it's absolutely devastating. If there's one thing I hope everyone can agree on regardless of their views is that if we're going to spend money it should be on things like that.

 

[NotInRHouse]

At 2 year community colleges probably not. At 4 year (as T2K says Rider) schools I simply don't know. But I wouldn't assume they don't have them.

Well if they're cutting back I would imagine they'd be among the first to go.

OTOH what's happening now is schools like RU are getting essential research cut. RU helped cure polio decades ago, and now money is being cut from those efforts on other diseases. And then the people defending that idea are just saying "cut women's studies." Neither should be cut. If we're going to cut things, higher education isn't the place to start.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

It's quite bad when you consider how important intl tuition is for RU and many other schools, but really awful is attack on spending, nearly all of which is for scientific causes like curing diseases. And we're seeing the results of that with measles and cyclospora among other things.

A lot of med schools also run trials for diseases that they now had to cut or trim back. For people and their loved ones with rare cancers and other disorders it's absolutely devastating. If there's one thing I hope everyone can agree on regardless of their views is that if we're going to spend money it should be on things like that.

This went viral this week. It shouldn’t be hard to distinguish between legitimate life saving research and stuff like this, but unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case in practice right now.

 

[NotInRHouse]

This went viral this week. It shouldn’t be hard to distinguish between legitimate life saving research and stuff like this, but unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case in practice right now.

There will be replication as foreign universities will take up a lot of the mantle. It's never been a better time to be a Canadian, Aussie or European university, but especially problematic is that it's also a big boon for China to keep their most talented students.

 

[Leonard23]

Penn Athletics tightens spending amid shrinking budget, gift decline

The Department of Recreation and Intercollegiate Athletics is expected to spend more than it makes in fiscal year 2027.

www.thedp.com

 

[NightKnight]

Toured New Brunswick College Ave (for the first time in decades) and drove through Busch and Livingston which he's seen on game days. Like New Jerseyans, I think most New Yorkers under appreciated Rutgers academics. I'd be paying out of state tuition so it is not exactly a bargain. Saw a catatonic junky on George St. New Brunswick has come along way in the 59 years since the 1967 riots but still has a ways to go. It's not quite vibrant, not quite dilapidated. Three blocks away from campus, it doesn't feels like a college town. Cluck U Chicken is gone.

They changed the main gate on old Campus. That was for the worse. Every thing else looks mostly better. Shoe horning in too many new buildings but that is what universities do. My feeling on Rutgers and the State of New Jersey has always been B for people, C for Management, D for Vision. They talk about monorails but it is still a school where you take the bus a lot.

We're lookin at a specific major where RU is pretty good. Assuming he doesn't get into UCLA (pretty good assumption) RU is close to on parr with the other schools he likes. If you're out of state Rutgers lacks a real compelling identity. I can't really say why you would pick RU. It doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out. Despite being in New Jersey it's connection to industry is nothing special.

 

[Fat Koko]

Toured New Brunswick College Ave (for the first time in decades) and drove through Busch and Livingston which he's seen on game days. Like New Jerseyans, I think most New Yorkers under appreciated Rutgers academics. I'd be paying out of state tuition so it is not exactly a bargain. Saw a catatonic junky on George St. New Brunswick has come along way in the 59 years since the 1967 riots but still has a ways to go. It's not quite vibrant, not quite dilapidated. Three blocks away from campus, it doesn't feels like a college town. Cluck U Chicken is gone.

They changed the main gate on old Campus. That was for the worse. Every thing else looks mostly better. Shoe horning in too many new buildings but that is what universities do. My feeling on Rutgers and the State of New Jersey has always been B for people, C for Management, D for Vision. They talk about monorails but it is still a school where you take the bus a lot.

We're lookin at a specific major where RU is pretty good. Assuming he doesn't get into UCLA (pretty good assumption) RU is close to on parr with the other schools he likes. If you're out of state Rutgers lacks a real compelling identity. I can't really say why you would pick RU. It doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out. Despite being in New Jersey it's connection to industry is nothing special.

Agree with your comments. Rutgers could do a better job recruiting students from New York. I live on Long Island where few people consider Rutgers.

Zero LI valedictorians or salutatorians chose Rutgers. 110 chose ACC, B1G, and SEC schools. 54 more chose Stony Brook, an academic peer to Rutgers. I posted about this here.

I contacted Rutgers to ask how could volunteer at LI college fairs to represent Rutgers. No response.

New Brunswick has come a long way. Here are before and after photos of the main intersection.

 

[NightKnight]

That's basically on campus. James St. has not changed at all. Spooky how it is frozen in time. It's not a bad street. It never was. I've actually known James St. since before college...going back to the late 70's. It is the same.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Toured New Brunswick College Ave (for the first time in decades) and drove through Busch and Livingston which he's seen on game days. Like New Jerseyans, I think most New Yorkers under appreciated Rutgers academics. I'd be paying out of state tuition so it is not exactly a bargain. Saw a catatonic junky on George St. New Brunswick has come along way in the 59 years since the 1967 riots but still has a ways to go. It's not quite vibrant, not quite dilapidated. Three blocks away from campus, it doesn't feels like a college town. Cluck U Chicken is gone.

They changed the main gate on old Campus. That was for the worse. Every thing else looks mostly better. Shoe horning in too many new buildings but that is what universities do. My feeling on Rutgers and the State of New Jersey has always been B for people, C for Management, D for Vision. They talk about monorails but it is still a school where you take the bus a lot.

We're lookin at a specific major where RU is pretty good. Assuming he doesn't get into UCLA (pretty good assumption) RU is close to on parr with the other schools he likes. If you're out of state Rutgers lacks a real compelling identity. I can't really say why you would pick RU. It doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out. Despite being in New Jersey its connection to industry is nothing special.

I went to a concert at San Diego State’s football stadium last night and was absolutely floored. Built right off a trolley line made it so easy to get in and out. 50k people moved around masterfully. Food that would rival any major league park, very similar to Petco which is regularly noted as one of the best in the mlb. Rutgers could learn so much from a visit here.

 

[kupuna133]

I went to a concert at San Diego State’s football stadium last night and was absolutely floored. Built right off a trolley line made it so easy to get in and out. 50k people moved around masterfully. Food that would rival any major league park, very similar to Petco which is regularly noted as one of the best in the mlb. Rutgers could learn so much from a visit here.

Met with Hobbs at an event soon after he was hired. He asked what can be improved. Told him game day offerings and set up was considerably lacking. Asked him to send his team to LsU, UGA, Wisconsin etc. and similar venues to see how and what they do. He told me they would do so. Saw him at an event the next year and asked how it went and said he hasn’t gotten around to setting up visits. Multiple years later more of the same.

 

[RUTGERS95]

alum representation on the board, in state politics etc is lacking
pride in the school is horrendous
starts with marketing all the great things about Rutgers which is lacking

Tate needs to make a major push here

 

[NightKnight]

alum representation on the board, in state politics etc is lacking
pride in the school is horrendous
starts with marketing all the great things about Rutgers which is lacking

Tate needs to make a major push here

I don't think it's even about a lot money. I think Tate and Governor Fighter Pilot need to get to work on a vision for how the state university becomes more important to the state. They do pretty good on the Med and Pharma side, but other depts need to carry the stamp of academic achievement, too. I think people see struggling football and basketball teams and think that RU in not committed to excellence. We need to change their mind on that front.

I'd like to see RU offer an Ed.M. that teachers can compete in 3 years of summer and Christmas break with 100% scholarship for all admitted NJ teachers. Admission would be based on a live test. It creates buzz. For RU this gets high school teachers thinking of Rutgers as a great place. (Coaching clinics, but for the real world.)

 

[RUTGERS95]

I don't think it's even about a lot money. I think Tate and Governor Fighter Pilot need to get to work on a vision for how the state university becomes more important to the state. They do pretty good on the Med and Pharma side, but other depts need to carry the stamp of academic achievement, too. I think people see struggling football and basketball teams and think that RU in not committed to excellence. We need to change their mind on that front.

I'd like to see RU offer an Ed.M. that teachers can compete in 3 years of summer and Christmas break with 100% scholarship for all admitted NJ teachers. Admission would be based on a live test. It creates buzz. For RU this gets high school teachers thinking of Rutgers as a great place. (Coaching clinics, but for the real world.)

that's a hard no, see no benefit and only cost there. Not to mention, teachers are more than fairly compensated for the work they do, they don't need a masters to teach little Johnny the A, B, C's and the unions will only use this degree to milk the taxpayer more.

If 'we're going to allocate monies, give the top 10% of NYC, LI, Eastern PA the state tuition rate. We need to create a campus like feel to College Ave

There really is a lot that can be done but to your point, the Gov and Tate need to form a vision and it has to be pushed

 

[kupuna133]

I don't think it's even about a lot money. I think Tate and Governor Fighter Pilot need to get to work on a vision for how the state university becomes more important to the state. They do pretty good on the Med and Pharma side, but other depts need to carry the stamp of academic achievement, too. I think people see struggling football and basketball teams and think that RU in not committed to excellence. We need to change their mind on that front.

I'd like to see RU offer an Ed.M. that teachers can compete in 3 years of summer and Christmas break with 100% scholarship for all admitted NJ teachers. Admission would be based on a live test. It creates buzz. For RU this gets high school teachers thinking of Rutgers as a great place. (Coaching clinics, but for the real world.)

Until Rutgers and the alumni take a greater interest in Trenton nothing will be accomplished. Very few alumni are involved in Trenton politics. And our lobbying effort is awful. Hopefully Tate shakes up the status quo with our governmental relations department.
And to your point about Ed M. Part of the problem with outward appearance is we have no undergraduate “education major”. This leads to a comparatively low concentration of teachers.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Until Rutgers and the alumni take a greater interest in Trenton nothing will be accomplished. Very few alumni are involved in Trenton politics. And our lobbying effort is awful. Hopefully Tate shakes up the status quo with our governmental relations department.
And to your point about Ed M. Part of the problem with outward appearance is we have no undergraduate “education major”. This leads to a comparatively low concentration of teachers.

I find it nuts there is no education major for prospective teachers to be honest

agree on the rest, I posted as much earlier. People really have no idea how much that hurts

 

[Knight Shift]

Agree with your comments. Rutgers could do a better job recruiting students from New York. I live on Long Island where few people consider Rutgers.

Zero LI valedictorians or salutatorians chose Rutgers. 110 chose ACC, B1G, and SEC schools. 54 more chose Stony Brook, an academic peer to Rutgers. I posted about this here.

I contacted Rutgers to ask how could volunteer at LI college fairs to represent Rutgers. No response.

New Brunswick has come a long way. Here are before and after photos of the main intersection.

View attachment 1380932
View attachment 1380955
View attachment 1380956

No response is standard.

 

[Knight Shift]

Toured New Brunswick College Ave (for the first time in decades) and drove through Busch and Livingston which he's seen on game days. Like New Jerseyans, I think most New Yorkers under appreciated Rutgers academics. I'd be paying out of state tuition so it is not exactly a bargain. Saw a catatonic junky on George St. New Brunswick has come along way in the 59 years since the 1967 riots but still has a ways to go. It's not quite vibrant, not quite dilapidated. Three blocks away from campus, it doesn't feels like a college town. Cluck U Chicken is gone.

They changed the main gate on old Campus. That was for the worse. Every thing else looks mostly better. Shoe horning in too many new buildings but that is what universities do. My feeling on Rutgers and the State of New Jersey has always been B for people, C for Management, D for Vision. They talk about monorails but it is still a school where you take the bus a lot.

We're lookin at a specific major where RU is pretty good. Assuming he doesn't get into UCLA (pretty good assumption) RU is close to on parr with the other schools he likes. If you're out of state Rutgers lacks a real compelling identity. I can't really say why you would pick RU. It doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out. Despite being in New Jersey it's connection to industry is nothing special.

As mentioned above, the train station needs some major improvements. There is a parking deck on Easton adjacent to the train station. We had an appointment at the Foundation a couple months ago on George Street. As we walked down the stairs of the parking deck that lets out on Wall Street, the odor of weed grew stronger and stronger. At the bottom of the stairs, there was a guy smoking weed and his friend was urinating on the lowest stair landing. My better half was a little stunned, but I grabbed her hand said "Hey guys, how's it going" to not make a scene, but we kept walking. Wall Street as you walk towards the intersection of Somerset and George is also crummy. Graffiti on the walls. George Street has improved, but it still has a long way to go.

My oldest was admitted to UCLA and Rutgers. Really wanted to get into Berkeley, where we had some strong connections to the computer science department, but that is a tough school to get into. UCLA offered no money, and Rutgers it was, and it worked out well. The area surrounding Cal Berkeley reminded me of New Brunswick. Some OK areas, but a fair amount of seedy/ run down areas too. UCLA campus was incredibly nice.

 

[Fat Koko]

alum representation on the board, in state politics etc is lacking
pride in the school is horrendous
starts with marketing all the great things about Rutgers which is lacking

Tate needs to make a major push here

The majority of the Rutgers Board of Governors members are Rutgers grads.

Three weeks ago, two new Rutgers BoG members were added. A Goldman Sachs banker and a New Brunswick real estate builder - both Rutgers grads - were put on the BoG.

Will the BoG get anything done? Of course not and they will do it expensively. They will hire consultants and coaches at big salaries, win no trophies, then congratulate everybody on how well they are doing.

 

[RUTGERS95]

The majority of the Rutgers Board of Governors members are Rutgers grads.

Three weeks ago, two new Rutgers BoG members were added. A Goldman Sachs banker and a New Brunswick real estate builder - both Rutgers grads - were added to the BoG.

Will the BoG get anything done? Of course not and they will do it expensively. They will hire consultants and coaches at big salaries, win no trophies, then congratulate everybody on how well they are doing.

that's good, wasn't always the case but glad to hear this is now becoming the reality