Michigan State Is Probably a Sleeping Giant

[RuggieC]

Fair enough. Could be.

That said, the loss isn't on the ST. The D didn't stop them on the last drive and the O couldn't deliver either (2 INTs, <100 yards rushing). Team loss.

Agree.....ISU game was a team loss as well for the most part. Oregon same thing...ST blow on the punt snap....defense could not get off the field on their last drive. I think most people that are not Iowa fans don't know how close we really were to the playoffs.

 

[Oldman74]

I sincerely hope you are correct about the second half of your sentence, but I am not so sure. I just do not grasp the idea of him making a lateral move like that (and to an archrival, to boot). It just implies to me that Woods was passed over for promotion; i.e., that he knows something about the succession plan that is not public knowledge. I don't know, but that is what it looks like to me.

just curious, what makes you believe he would come back?

I tend to agree with you. He's either making a move to better position himself to come back to be the head coach (or earn an opportunity elsewhere), or he sees that Seth Wallace is the in-house choice to succeed KF.

 

[Oldman74]

As it relates to Woods, I'm guessing there's a reason he was passed over for the Asst. Head Coach job that went to Wallace. Lots of things happen in the building and behind closed doors that we aren't privy to.

I think it's more about what they love about Seth Wallace than it is anything they don't like about Levar. I don't have any inside info, just a hunch. For the record, I'd be fine with either of them if they don't look elsewhere when the time comes.

 

[85Bears]

Lavar isn’t qualified, period. The virtue signaling is hilarious.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

I sincerely hope you are correct about the second half of your sentence, but I am not so sure. I just do not grasp the idea of him making a lateral move like that (and to an archrival, to boot). It just implies to me that Woods was passed over for promotion; i.e., that he knows something about the succession plan that is not public knowledge. I don't know, but that is what it looks like to me.

just curious, what makes you believe he would come back?

Not just a lateral move. Woods is the assistant head coach, so he's the #2 guy on the staff behind Fitz. Higher pay and presumably more responsibility.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Special teams x's and o's was all Coach Woods which is exactly what I meant. Since this was a discussion of special teams, I assumed you'd pick up on that. Clearly you didn't.

I have NO idea how much of it is Woods and how much of it is just the basic game plan of the HC. And outside of the kickers making kicks and guys covering, or the difference between Taylor dropping punts inside the 5 and Dakin not having that skill, how much of that is coaching, and how much is skill of the players? I've never blamed Woods for guys missing kicks or shanking a punt, and I don't see how he gets credit for a guy making a 56 yd kick, or a punter dropping it at the three either.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

I have NO idea how much of it is Woods and how much of it is just the basic game plan of the HC. And outside of the kickers making kicks and guys covering, or the difference between Taylor dropping punts inside the 5 and Dakin not having that skill, how much of that is coaching, and how much is skill of the players? I've never blamed Woods for guys missing kicks or shanking a punt, and I don't see how he gets credit for a guy making a 56 yd kick, or a punter dropping it at the three either.

I know nothing about coaching kickers, but I'm wondering if it is like being a swing coach in golf. If so, then perhaps Woods has helped them with technique and consistency, what to do differently in relation to wind, angle, etc.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

I know nothing about coaching kickers, but I'm wondering if it is like being a swing coach in golf. If so, then perhaps Woods has helped them with technique and consistency, what to do differently in relation to wind, angle, etc.

And yet in a couple of seasons including year 4 Stevens was really inconsistent on medium range kicks. Stevens was pretty highly recruited I think out of high school. I'm not down on Woods, he was a good coach and a great hawk for most of his adult life.

 

[Grayhair1981]

Not worried about MSU.
We should roll them.

I definitely recall back when the NW fanbase wanted ol' Pat gone big time.
Nothing special as a HC.

Agree that Woods will be a major plus for MSU.

He was 9-8 vs Ferentz

 

[Iron Doc]

Lavar isn’t qualified, period. The virtue signaling is hilarious.

Is this a joke? "Virtue signaling" must be your new catchphrase.

 

[85Bears]

Is this a joke? "Virtue signaling" must be your new catchphrase.

No it’s what it is. He’s not qualified to be a HC based on his CV but the usual suspects keep posting this nonsense.

 

[HawksRule73]

Fair enough. Could be.

That said, the loss isn't on the ST. The D didn't stop them on the last drive and the O couldn't deliver either (2 INTs, <100 yards rushing). Team loss.

Agreed.

 

[BunchofAholes]

Lavar isn’t qualified, period. The virtue signaling is hilarious.

"Virtue Signaling"? How so? (not that I can't guess your response)

 

[93hawkeye]

It's definitely a different world with NIL. But I will say Mich St's best years usually are when Michigan is down for an extended period. And even when they're good, they're not top-5 in the country good. It was eye opening the year they narrowly beat us in the B10 champ game. We proceeded to get smoked in the Rose Bowl. MSU proceeded to get smoked in the CFP.
The B10 is too top-heavy for MSU to crack the top, say, 4 or so. We already know what Fitzgerald is: a very competent guy who sometimes appears to overachieve, but he's not a freak like Cignetti

 

[BroncHawk]

Personally I never said that specials should be singled out for losses. Just that they had some issues last season. I'm also not convinced that Woods should get all the credit either, nor the blame. Besides some gaffs last season our field position suffered partly because Dakin wasn't anywhere near the specialist that Taylor was dropping those punts inside the 10 yard line. While Stevens had a monster leg, he missed a bunch of kicks between 35-45yds for whatever reason.

When he lined up from 50+, I relaxed, but inside 50 I was stressed

 

[HMB Trumpet]

Coached special teams, lol. theres A reason no head coaches are hired directly from Special Teams coaches. how many HC offers has LW had ? Zero

Not many go from ST coach to HC, for sure. The only one I can think of is John Harbaugh, but he's done pretty well. There are probably others.

I have no idea whether Woods is ready to be HC. He has, however, garnered much praise for his ST work. Urban Meyer is a fan. What does being assistant head coach entail? If it is more than just a job title and/or justification for higher pay, then Woods may get what he needs working with Fitz to land a HC gig.

 

[85Bears]

Not many go from ST coach to HC, for sure. The only one I can think of is John Harbaugh, but he's done pretty well. There are probably others.

I have no idea whether Woods is ready to be HC. He has, however, garnered much praise for his ST work. Urban Meyer is a fan. What does being assistant head coach entail? If it is more than just a job title and/or justification for higher pay, then Woods may get what he needs working with Fitz to land a HC gig.

No, Harbaugh was named a position coach before being named a HC because as his bio says it was felt ST coach alone didn’t provide enough experience to be a HC

how many HC offers has Lavar had ? Zero

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

You had me at $400 million.

 

[hawkandroll]

Meh. Unpopular but I think Fitzgerald is overrated on this board and maybe amongst Hawkeye fans in general. Also the "car wash" thing is fkn weird.

 

[Rifler]

I sincerely hope you are correct about the second half of your sentence, but I am not so sure. I just do not grasp the idea of him making a lateral move like that (and to an archrival, to boot). It just implies to me that Woods was passed over for promotion; i.e., that he knows something about the succession plan that is not public knowledge. I don't know, but that is what it looks like to me.

just curious, what makes you believe he would come back?

I look at this as Woods both wanting and needing to expand his resume to include experience outside Kinnick before being deemed acceptable for a head coaching position,.. Not saying it will happen, but I think it makes him a much more desirable candidate than if he had simply hung around Iowa City,... Also, Fitz is both a good mentor and a friend of the Iowa program so it wouldn't shock me if this wasn't at least the outline of a loosely laid plan.

 

[BigDelHawk]

Fitz is overrated by Iowa fans due to some surprise wins vs hawks.
Fitz was 14-31 in the last 4 years at NW.
Def. Coordinator Hank retired right before that 4 year run. He was critical to fitz success.

Now that huge donation could bouy his chance for success at MSU,no doubt
NW fans had concluded he was a poor game day coach...too conservative,ie. KF.

I wish him no luck.
John Smith compiled a strong record with a weak program at Oregon St.
Not ready to say fitz is better.

Fitz had not only had the problem of needing high academic standards, but the facilities were crap. Both of them.

 

[RomanHawk]

Not just a lateral move. Woods is the assistant head coach, so he's the #2 guy on the staff behind Fitz. Higher pay and presumably more responsibility.

It was basically just a lateral move. The AHC part is window dressing. IMO, his resume needed more and this was a bad choice.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

No, Harbaugh was named a position coach before being named a HC because as his bio says it was felt ST coach alone didn’t provide enough experience to be a HC

how many HC offers has Lavar had ? Zero

Not sure where you're getting that info, because Harbaugh started out as a position coach (RBs and OLB at Western Michigan) and became a ST coordinator a few years later. The only way what you say makes sense is if he wanted to do both things in the NFL before trying to be HC at that level.

Is position coach considered higher level than ST coordinator? I never thought so. They seem about the same level, except the STC would report directly to the HC rather than to the DC or OC.

For what it's worth, Woods has coached LB and TE at Iowa in addition to working with special teams.

I'm not saying any of that qualifies him to be HC. Being HC requires a different skill set than being a position coach or coordinator.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

It was basically just a lateral move. The AHC part is window dressing. IMO, his resume needed more and this was a bad choice.

You may be right about the window dressing, but there may be organizational tasks that help prepare an AHC to be an HC. What does Wallace do at Iowa is his AHC role? For that matter, what did Kirk do for the Ravens?

 

[85Bears]

Not sure where you're getting that info, because Harbaugh started out as a position coach (RBs and OLB at Western Michigan) and became a ST coordinator a few years later. The only way what you say makes sense is if he wanted to do both things in the NFL before trying to be HC at that level.

Is position coach considered higher level than ST coordinator? I never thought so. They seem about the same level, except the STC would report directly to the HC rather than to the DC or OC.

For what it's worth, Woods has coached LB and TE at Iowa in addition to working with special teams.

I'm not saying any of that qualifies him to be HC. Being HC requires a different skill set than being a position coach or coordinator.

NFL he sought a position coach title because ST experience alone wasn’t enough to get a HC job. Which is widely known. It’s on his wiki page

nobody goes from ST only to HC.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

NFL he sought a position coach title because ST experience alone wasn’t enough to get a HC job. Which is widely known. It’s on his wiki page

nobody goes from ST only to HC.

As I said, Harbaugh started as a position coach. He has never been ST-only ever in his career.

 

[HMB Trumpet]

You may be right about the window dressing, but there may be organizational tasks that help prepare an AHC to be an HC. What does Wallace do at Iowa is his AHC role? For that matter, what did Kirk do for the Ravens?

Help me out here, @85Bears -- why the laughing emoji?

 

[85Bears]

As I said, Harbaugh started as a position coach. He has never been ST-only ever in his career.

In 2007, after serving as Eagles' special teams coach for nine years, he became their defensive backs coach.[17][18] This fulfilled his request to head coach Reid and improved his chances of landing a head coaching job since executives at that time viewed special teams coaches as unqualified to move up to head coach.

quit while you’re behind

 

[HMB Trumpet]

In 2007, after serving as Eagles' special teams coach for nine years, he became their defensive backs coach.[17][18] This fulfilled his request to head coach Reid and improved his chances of landing a head coaching job since executives at that time viewed special teams coaches as unqualified to move up to head coach.

quit while you’re behind

How am I behind? I never said Harbaugh had only been a special teams coach. And like I noted above, he must have wanted that experience at the NFL level. He certainly had position coach experience in college at Western Michigan, Pittsburgh, Morehead State, and Indiana.

Also note what you quote: "at that time."

Regardless, my point about the laughing emoji was concerned the AHC role. What's the deal there?

 

[85Bears]

How am I behind? I never said Harbaugh had only been a special teams coach. And like I noted above, he must have wanted that experience at the NFL level. He certainly had position coach experience in college at Western Michigan, Pittsburgh, Morehead State, and Indiana.

Also note what you quote: "at that time."

Regardless, my point about the laughing emoji was concerned the AHC role. What's the deal there?

so can you name all the successful P4 coaches who only coached ST who have never been a coordinator , never been a head coach at any level who were successful ?

what has LW done as a coach that would make you think he should be the HC at Iowa ?

 

[WeBeHerkin]

Patty Fitz called Kirk the best coach in the Big Ten.

 

[RomanHawk]

You may be right about the window dressing, but there may be organizational tasks that help prepare an AHC to be an HC. What does Wallace do at Iowa is his AHC role? For that matter, what did Kirk do for the Ravens?

I don't know, but if I'm hiring a head coach, the answer to those questions would not be very important to me. IMO, the biggest key would be "did he run another program successfully, even a smaller one"?. The skills required to run a small something are much the same as running a big something, whether it be a company or a football team.