My thoughts on Kamario...
- Thread starter Rick Cleveland
- Start date
Rick the problem with a lot of state fans is that they have developed a loser's mentality. I feel better about KT than I did Dak at this time of his development. KT will play on Sundays unless he gets a serious injury.
“My goal is to stay healthy for 13 games.”
Why not 16 games? Guess he knows that with Lebby, there’s no way we make the playoffs.
Why not 16 games? Guess he knows that with Lebby, there’s no way we make the playoffs.
Review the 1st sentence of the 3rd post.
I am all for KT and he's certainly saying and doing all the right things. But it seems like there's an awful lot of hype for a guy whose taken ~150 career snaps.
The reason ARCH didn’t get any hype before he took any FBS snaps is because there was a clear starter coming back and all those years ago reporters knew to not hype talented but unproven players . Things have changed in the last 2-3 years in preseason sport reporting.
Not needed, but here they are (******)
Not needed, but here they are (******)
I still just don’t get it. I mean, he may well be as good as everyone says. But if so, WHY WASN’T HE STARTING until the Egg Bowl?
Nobody ever said any of this crap about Shapen. But he kept on starting….and mostly disappointing.
Nobody ever said any of this crap about Shapen. But he kept on starting….and mostly disappointing.
Being a True Freshman who is talented is not the same as being a True Freshman who can read defenses / understand the offense.
Shapen was brittle and not well protected behind our OL, but he was far more poised as a starter and Kamario was too green.
Should Dak have started in 2011 / 2012? No. He didn't realize his potential until mid 2013. Kamario started coming into his own the final few weeks.
We’re going to be disappointed, if Taylor is anything short of an NFL talent, and that is rare.
Our fans are so incredibly stupid. This idea that you must have a mobile QB and that the run opens up the pass (Bart and Charlie are even peddling this) is just asinine. The pass opens up the run, not the other way around. I get it, you have to keep people engaged. And yeah, if your max goal is 7-5 or 8-4, go for it. I want to make the playoff.
Taylor’s future is completely about his ability to throw, ie he’s a NFL guy. Remember, Nick Fitz is the SECs all time leading rusher……and he was booed his senior year.
It just really doesn’t matter once you get to a certain point, though. Once you’re out of CFP contention, play the better player. Period. Let him have the growing pains in a low pressure environment. Nobody gives a 17 if it costs you a game or two. Nobody gives a 17 what your record is or what bowl you went to if you didn’t make the CFP.
By the conclusion of the A&M game, we were totally cooked as far as CFP was concerned. Everybody knew it. If you don’t agree it was then, it was at latest after the Florida game. KT could have easily started the last 6-7 games without it having affected our record at all. What did we gain by losing with Shapen?
I disagree with framing everything as about being about the CFP and making it.
I appreciate when it was about winning the next game right in front of you. Those days of college football made every game feel big.
Maybe that's the approach the coach took. Play the guys who gave us the best chance to win that week. That was Shapen for most of the year.
Of course it was. If nothing else, to build the program and resume. Losing sure doesn't do that. And players don't want to lose either. And these days you never know for sure who's staying, we played that guy in 2024 all year (by necessity, I get it) to watch him transfer out first chance he got. There's no more 'taking lumps' or whatever.
Now......I can buy that this happens to the teams with big expectations who maybe fall short. Or perhaps some seniors do it from time to time. But it's not a crazy problem. NFL has more incentive to do it, honestly. But that's also why their playoff is nearly half the league.
He said at a minimum 13 games. That changes the meaning a lot and can mean many different things. They make the playoffs, that mentality may change a bit. I still remember an old John Elway diving into the end zone and getting spun like a helicopter similar to Shrader in the K State Bowl game.
What was our record in the final 6 games of the season?
What would our record been in the final 6 games had KT started all of them? More specifically, how much worse could it have been?
It’s utterly ridiculous to look at Jeff Lebby, who has literally gotten every single thing wrong possible in 2 years of trying to build this program - from staff hires to recruiting to in-game management, and assume that somehow he got this one exactly right.
Of course I don’t know how the season will play out, but I know Taylor will be fun to watch.
You had me at “we’re going to be disappointed”.
This is SPS, you don’t have to add any further context.
Some perspective: The best season Louisville had with Lamar Jackson was 9-3 and that's not against an SEC schedule. Even if Taylor is as good as Lamar it won't automatically translate to wins and it might not translate to turning our program around. We will just get to enjoy the highlights of a generational talent at MSU. Money and lots of it paired with an administration who is committed to winning will turn our program around.
Btw, Lamar threw FOUR ints against us in the TaxSlayer bowl and this is the year after he won the Heisman. We beat his Louisville team with Keytaon Thompson as our QB that game.
Btw, Lamar threw FOUR ints against us in the TaxSlayer bowl and this is the year after he won the Heisman. We beat his Louisville team with Keytaon Thompson as our QB that game.
I don't give a **** if he makes it to the NFL. I hope he's mother ******* Johnny Manziel out there in college. And if that turns into NFL success - more power to him. I hope he's an all-pro if he makes it to the NFL.
I've been around probably longer than most. IMO it's not something that has developed. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.
KT is going to have lots of ups and downs this season. There will be plenty of people on this board posting all sorts of negativesh!tabout him, as he will probably have some rough games with bad decisions that we won't be able to throw at Lebby.
Hopefully it will end up being a fun ride that ends well.
Hopefully it will end up being a fun ride that ends well.
having a healthy KT moving under his own power is a good start. Did you not see some of the shots Shapen took because our OL didn't know which one of the three DL to block? And for an athlete that was playing teams like Enterprise & Heidelberg the year before, there's alot to be said for observing and SEC FB game on the sidelines in real-time. The opponent, the speed of the game, lebbys system, even his own teammates were completely new.
If Fitz was booed his sr year it wasn't because of him. It was his HC.
Lol. Doesn’t hold water. If that was a concern, we never should have started KT against OM or Wake Forest. Hell, he DID sustain a major injury in what was the worst possible game for it to happen, and we just got real lucky it wasn’t worse. So obviously that is not a valid reason at all.
The bottom line is that KT was clearly a better option by the time we got to the 2nd half of the schedule. He thoroughly outplayed Shapen against UGA (scored all 3 of our TD’s), Mizzou (Shapen threw 2 pick-6’s), and Arkansas before eventually getting the nod to start in the Egg Bowl. He should have been starting the last 4-5 games at absolute minimum. It’s not even remotely up for debate. For all his reported limitations as a passer, he even finished with a higher passer rating than Shapen last year! And Shapen was a 17ing 5th year senior.
1-5
Likely 0-6 - losing to Arkansas could have gotten him fired by year end. Especially if Kamario gets hurt earlier.
I'm not pro-Lebby, and in fact far from it. But this is a decision that 99.9% of coaches make. It's easily defensible and what your calling for would be insane.
Yeah. It's stupid and counterproductive to play a player too early. He doesn't "learn on the job" so much as he's overwhelmed and you wind up doing more harm than good. Never mind that when he finally did start him, the offense actually got worse (surprising that switching from 1 QB who understands what he's doing to 1 who doesn't yet can do that). And, as you mention, if he'd started Taylor earlier, he probably just gets injured earlier and misses the rest of the season anyway. If anything, we started him too early, not too late.
Overall point - Lebby 17ed it up. No matter how you slice it. Once you commit to not redshirting him, go ahead and play him. I don’t get the argument at all that “he would have gotten hurt sooner”. If it’s considered a foregone conclusion (which it shouldn’t be), then it’s way better for it to happen earlier so that he doesn’t risking spring camp. Waiting until the Egg Bowl to make the switch is ridiculous, like somehow we’re to believe that he just so happened to pass Shapen that exact week. BS.
Either he was known to be better way earlier, but Lebby was too chickenshít to make the move until he saw Shapen throw 2 pick-6’s against Mizzou, or he really wasn’t better, but Lebby knew he needed something extra for the Egg Bowl to get the fans interested and engaged. Either one of those options is a horrible move by Lebby. I simply refuse to believe that he just so happened to pass him on the depth chart the week before the biggest game of the year against our archrivals.
Mullen did the exact same stupid crap in 2009 with Tyson Lee and Chris Relf. Waited wayyyy too late to switch, and it probably cost us a bowl game that year. Thank god he came to his senses in the 2nd quarter so we would have something to write home about that year. Only difference here is Lee is not quite as good as Shapen was, and Relf was likely not quite as good as Taylor. But the gap between them was about the same.
Did you even watch the Arkansas game? We don’t win that game without KT.
We do agree on one thing. Either start Thompson much earlier in the season or start Shapen in the Egg Bowl. Either way, what he did was stupid. And I don't blame Shapen for being p*ssed.
Agree with some of what you said but a QB that moves the sticks consistently in 3rd down situations when there is no play to be made absolutely rips the heart out of a defense. He has that skill set. That's what Dak could do and he also did it early on for the Cowboys. Mobility can make an average QB good and a good QB great.
Strawman, i never said to start KT against anyone.
Oh, who gives a 17..... I get it now, your still butt-hurt about KT not starting last season. Enjoy your KT trash-time parade. Josh Allen doesn't stop the shlt-kicking UGA put on us or the 300 yards Ahmad Hardy dropped on us last year (or The 297 AP yds Scattaboo put on us the year before). Lebby has a tough time with one player nevermind the other 10.
Yes. Did you? KT had a couple good drives then was quickly figured out. We lose the Arkansas game 42-21 if we start him.
Quite frankly, the way it played out was the only way we win that game - getting the best punch from both QBs. That was a happy accident that I don't give Lebby much credit for.
What are you talking about? KT played those couple of drives (which led to TD's) then Shapen came back in and immediately threw an INT. Kudos to Shapen for winning the game though.
Thought it went TD -> TD -> Turnover on Downs -> Shapen INT. Kamario had 3 drives iirc. Remember cursing Shapen's INT then thinking we're up **** creek without a paddle because we could only win with him in the 4th. Then we did.