The New Lounge

[KDSTONE]

Reading some more on the topic, the sexual exploitation part/trafficking... definitely bad things happened on the journey, terrible....once made to the border and in US hands...sponsors, family members, and distant relatives are given "custody" of the children....as already stated, the tracking thereafter definitely is lacking, but from what read, it is assumptions of what could be happening once here since tracking isn't been done as it should...again not good at all
We really need set upon rules for everything at the border establishing how things are going to go whether republican or democrat administration and not manipulated by either administration, effectively this is how it is 100% of the time....fair???

You clearly haven’t read my links so I’m probably wasting my time here. “Definitely bad things happened on the journey”. Uh nah, they happened after they got here too and I’ve posted several links to prove it. One involving thousands of children 12 and under to work long shifts. Our country moved on from this a century ago. This “ on the way here” narrative you’ve been finessing for a couple of days now shifts more of the culpability to the cartels, away from the Biden admin. I hold our leaders to a different standard than gangbangers.
Furthermore, without dna testing how do you know they’re being placed with relatives? Quit pretending you know most of these kids are okay. You don’t.

 

[Mac9192]

We really need set upon rules for everything at the border establishing how things are going to go whether republican or democrat administration and not manipulated by either administration,

This part you said here is ok. Almost everything gets but into a political box. If the right is for it, then the left will be against it. This is one of those topics that EVERYONE on both sides of the aisle should agree on. It's that simple. Not to keep beating the drum, but the movie "Sound of Freedom" wasn't political. Yet the left made it, and dismissed it.

If you dismissed that movie, in my opinion you're about as bad as the person doing the actual abduction.

 

[KDSTONE]

This part you said here is ok. Almost everything gets but into a political box. If the right is for it, then the left will be against it. This is one of those topics that EVERYONE on both sides of the aisle should agree on. It's that simple. Not to keep beating the drum, but the movie "Sound of Freedom" wasn't political. Yet the left made it, and dismissed it.

If you dismissed that movie, in my opinion you're about as bad as the person doing the actual abduction.

Remember AOC’s kids in cages photoop? The Left only seems to care about human rights when it can be weaponized against the Right. Those same facilities she deemed “inhumane” were actually built during the Obama admin. Crickets from the Left then, crickets during Biden’s term. If I were more cynical in nature, I might conclude that it’s never about the children, but always about maintaining power. I’m skeptical af about Rep too, but at least they’re not virtue signaling about how compassionate they are every time you turn around

 

[KDSTONE]

This eight year study spans Obama and Trump’s first term, when the border was relatively secure. Child trafficking was an underreported issue then as now. It didn’t originate in the Biden years, but the numbers involved grew exponentially.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213421003380

 

[Mac9192]

Biden was nothing more than a patsy. He was planted there so the people behind him could do some of the things they've been wanting to do, but couldn't because they were the ones in charge, and had to face the country. Easy to do some of the things and no one knows it's you, while the aging, senile, confused Biden take the fall. I think Obama was the major player. They let Biden go down as one of the worst Presidents ever.

Take off your political glasses. Would you parade your loved one around to be laughed at, mocked, and eventually felt sorry for? No rational person would. So a legitimate question is why would the Biden family be fine with watching him shuffle, mumble, fumble, fall, talk to dead people...

Either Jill was so power hungry to be the first lady that she didn't mind him being the sacrificial lamb, OR, they were blackmailed.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You can twist anything around to fit your agenda. You’ve been brainwashed, which is sad considering your vocabulary. DEI sounds good, but there’s a helluva lot of people sitting in positions that don’t deserve to be based on their race. I’ve witnessed this at NCDPI. How is questioning anyone’s citizenship racist? I’m not racist, but I am prejudice.

I gave you a point-by-point response.

You and mac need to make up your minds whether I'm just a brainwashed acolyte playing from some preset playbook or if I actually have the skills & vocabulary to form my own thoughts.

How wasn't then Citizen Trump's suspicions about President Obama's birth racist?

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You want stats on evidence of trafficking? This is rich, especially coming from the side that dismissed the movie “Sound of Freedom.”

I'm not a side.
I've never heard of "Sound of Freedom."
Yes, I want evidence of trafficking, not just hypotheticals about how sloppy record-keeping maybe-could-possibly result in it.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

“Sloppiness”? Good one. Shockingly cavalier when you consider what we’re dealing with here. An admin that passes legislation early in his term to “ fight human trafficking” and then proceeds for the next four years to dismantle border security and sponsor protocols, all but ensuring that children are exploited, trafficked, and/ or enslaved.

I'd like evidence of its being actually ensured, please, not all but ensured.

“Lax border security, in conjunction with nonexistent interior enforcement, has created a fertile environment for human trafficking”

This strikes me as similar to saying you have "one in the chamber." On its own it's not evidence that you shot anyone.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

They let Biden go down as one of the worst Presidents ever.

Would you parade your loved one around to be laughed at, mocked, and eventually felt sorry for?

Either Jill was so power hungry to be the first lady that she didn't mind him being the sacrificial lamb, OR, they were blackmailed.

I forgive you for claiming for years that he was absolutely the worst President ever by faaaaaar and extend grace to your shift in language to avoid easily countered extremist hyperbole. Good boy.

Your question and your either/or dichotomy remind me of the trap question "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

This eight year study spans Obama and Trump’s first term, when the border was relatively secure. Child trafficking was an underreported issue then as now. It didn’t originate in the Biden years, but the numbers involved grew exponentially.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213421003380

I wasn't even thinking about labor trafficking...
52 victims in 8 years. 52 too many, but what % does it constitute?

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

He doesn’t have Trump’s record, but Biden’s isn’t pristine.

Again, what are you acknowledging about President Trump's record?

edit: Oops! You answered. Did you catch any flak for it from @dukesince91 or @Mac9192 ?

 

[KDSTONE]

I wasn't even thinking about labor trafficking...
52 victims in 8 years. 52 too many, but what % does it constitute?

Is that your takeaway? That there were only 52 victims of trafficking in 8 years? And not that the study only focused on 52 cases to make it more manageable?

Maybe this will clarify things concerning the numbers and the magnitude with which we’re dealing.

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf

In 2016, when the border was relatively secure, there were an estimated 52k human trafficking cases. The percentage of minors involved with trafficking as a whole typically estimated at 30-40% so slightly higher than 52 in 8 years. More like 15-20 thousand in one year. No reasonable person would conclude that trafficking suddenly got better during the Biden era when everything else associated with the border got worse.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Is that your takeaway? That there are only 52 victims of trafficking in 8 years? And not that the study only focused on 52 cases to make it more manageable?

Maybe this will clarify things concerning the numbers and the magnitude with which we’re dealing.

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf

That's how I read it, yes. Your interpretation seems more logical, now that you point it out. Thank you.

 

[KDSTONE]

Again, what are you acknowledging about President Trump's record?

edit: Oops! You answered. Did you catch any flak for it from @dukesince91 or @Mac9192 ?

I think they’ve accepted the fact that I like to wander off the reservation now and again. I tend to push back against the ruling party by nature so I shifted slightly to the Right during Biden, back more right-center under Trump.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf

"According to the Department of State, a large number of child sex trafficking survivors in the U.S. were at one time in the foster care system." This sounds more like a foster system issue than an immigration issue.

"The president [Biden] has made it abundantly clear that his administration does not wish to stop illegal immigration" Okay, see, this is where you lose me. That's a leap.

From the right-leaning Cato Institute: "Many believe Biden caused this increase in migration by reducing border enforcement. However, data obtained by the Cato Institute through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) challenges this narrative. In fact, the border crisis began before Biden took office and ended before he left.

From his administration’s first day in January 2021, Biden actually increased border enforcement—arrests, detentions, and removals of border crossers all increased. The prevailing narrative that blames Biden overlooks the real causes of the crisis: America’s robust labor market and bad immigration policies that incentivized illegal entries. However, Trump, not Biden, mostly started those policies. Biden eventually phased out some of them; he increased legal migration, and as the labor market cooled, the problem dissipated."

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Edit.

Just for the record, here's what you said about it on the last page: "...my own research has led me to believe that there’s some merit to your claims..."
@dukesince91 , @Mac9192 , y'all were quick to dismiss my reasons. Has KD been brainwashed, too, now? Y'all ought to be reading KD's links, too.

 

[KDSTONE]

I gave you a point-by-point response.

You and mac need to make up your minds whether I'm just a brainwashed acolyte playing from some preset playbook or if I actually have the skills & vocabulary to form my own thoughts.

How wasn't then Citizen Trump's suspicions about President Obama's birth racist?

I have a take on this that probably aligns closely to yours. The birther stuff played into white nationalist tropes separating our country into two groups: the “real Americans” and the interlopers. I was at the US Open last year; Leonard Tien was playing, an Asian American. US citizen. The woman beside me asked if I knew what nationality he was. I said American. And she goes “American, yeh right”. That exchange perfectly captures the mindset.

 

[dukesince91]

I gave you a point-by-point response.

You and mac need to make up your minds whether I'm just a brainwashed acolyte playing from some preset playbook or if I actually have the skills & vocabulary to form my own thoughts.

How wasn't then Citizen Trump's suspicions about President Obama's birth racist?

If Obama was white (he is half white), would it still be considered racist to be suspicious about his birth?

 

[KDSTONE]

"According to the Department of State, a large number of child sex trafficking survivors in the U.S. were at one time in the foster care system." This sounds more like a foster system issue than an immigration issue.

"The president [Biden] has made it abundantly clear that his administration does not wish to stop illegal immigration" Okay, see, this is where you lose me. That's a leap.

From the right-leaning Cato Institute: "Many believe Biden caused this increase in migration by reducing border enforcement. However, data obtained by the Cato Institute through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) challenges this narrative. In fact, the border crisis began before Biden took office and ended before he left.

From his administration’s first day in January 2021, Biden actually increased border enforcement—arrests, detentions, and removals of border crossers all increased. The prevailing narrative that blames Biden overlooks the real causes of the crisis: America’s robust labor market and bad immigration policies that incentivized illegal entries. However, Trump, not Biden, mostly started those policies. Biden eventually phased out some of them; he increased legal migration, and as the labor market cooled, the problem dissipated."

First par: A large number could mean 500 or 10,000. Vague to the point of useless. They were migrants in the foster care system, not all but a disproportionate number.

Second par: It’s not a leap when he had Majorcas testify repeatedly that the border is secure. Harris also made this claim. So if you’re claiming there’s not a problem, what would you be interested in fixing?

And yes, as the election of Nov 24 drew closer, CBP was instructed to enforce the border after three plus years of neglect, but millions had already pored over by that point.

Cato Institute is more libertarian than right leaning and has never supported Trump, but duly noted on the points made.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

If Obama was white (he is half white), would it still be considered racist to be suspicious about his birth?

You know very well that from slavery onward part Black means Black, period.

Then citizen Trump wouldn't have questioned his birthplace at all had he been white. It was already established that he was a US citizen from birth.

 

[DuckDevil]

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

Second par: It’s not a leap when he had Majorcas testify repeatedly that the border is secure. Harris also made this claim. So if you’re claiming there’s not a problem, what would you be interested in fixing?

And yes, as the election of Nov 24 drew closer, CBP was instructed to enforce the border after three plus years of neglect, but millions had already pored over by that point.

No quibble with what I've cut from your post.

The border was not secure and it was a problem. However, there was never an open border policy, or a conspiracy to import fraudulent Democratic voters, or replace white people, or any other sinister, cynical motive. It was just poorly done.

 

[Mac9192]

I gave you a point-by-point response.

You and mac need to make up your minds whether I'm just a brainwashed acolyte playing from some preset playbook or if I actually have the skills & vocabulary to form my own thoughts.

How wasn't then Citizen Trump's suspicions about President Obama's birth racist?

First, I don't need to make up my mind. You do have great vocabulary skills, and some times you do form your own thoughts, I'll give you that. BUT, The fact still remains I feel you are brainwashed, because you're too party locked. Which also makes you delusional in my opinion.

I also agree that Trump's suspicions about Obama's birth doesn't make him a racist, but I don't agree with Trump on that.

 

[dukesince91]

You know very well that from slavery onward part Black means Black, period.

Then citizen Trump wouldn't have questioned his birthplace at all had he been white. It was already established that he was a US citizen from birth.

So now you know what citizen Trump would or would not do. Lol. Also, tell me why if someone is part black then they automatically claim to be black. Does it have anything to do with the benefits they may get by being a minority?

 

[Mac9192]

I'm not a side.
I've never heard of "Sound of Freedom."
Yes, I want evidence of trafficking, not just hypotheticals about how sloppy record-keeping maybe-could-possibly result in it.

If you'll watch Sound of Freedom with an open mind, it will shed a lot of light. To not give away the movie, there's a scene where Tim Ballard tells someone that a bag of cocaine generally gets sold once. A kid can be sold multiple times a day though. They may start out from one spot, and two days later be in another country. I'm probably not explaining it 100% accurately, but you should get the point. That's why it's not easy to give the evidence you're demanding.

It's a sick, but very profitable way for these monsters to be making money.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

So now you know what citizen Trump would or would not do. Lol. Also, tell me why if someone is part black then they automatically claim to be black. Does it have anything to do with the benefits they may get by being a minority?

My conjecture about what he would have done is supported by his non-question about every other Presidential candidate. We saw the same with VP Harris this past election where people were questioning her Black identity because she is half Indian.

I already told you Black identity has been defined since slavery. Look up the "one drop" rule, or "octaroon." White plantation owners raped Black women they enslaved. The children of these unions were never accepted based on being half-white. In Plessy v Ferguson, Homer Plessy was 1/8th Black and could pass for white, so he got on a whites-only train car without resistance. It was an intentional act of civil disobedience, though, so he arranged to be outed so that he could challenge it in court. SCOTUS ruled 7-1 against him. 1/8 Black = Black. Culturally, that has never changed. How do you teach your entire career in public schools and still be this oblivious to these things? You know that the term "light-skinned" exists throughout the US to describe some Black people and you know there is no equivalent for white people other than tan, which is in no way a statement of race. I suspect you're being deliberately contrarian, just like you took only me to task for listing racist things Trump has done, but didn't question KD at all when he agreed with me.

So no, it doesn't have anything to do with your twisted perception of minority "benefits."

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

If you'll watch Sound of Freedom with an open mind, it will shed a lot of light. To not give away the movie, there's a scene where Tim Ballard tells someone that a bag of cocaine generally gets sold once. A kid can be sold multiple times a day though. They may start out from one spot, and two days later be in another country. I'm probably not explaining it 100% accurately, but you should get the point. That's why it's not easy to give the evidence you're demanding.

It's a sick, but very profitable way for these monsters to be making money.

A quick search reveals that the Sound of Freedom movie was highly fictionalized.

 

[Mac9192]

A quick search reveals that the Sound of Freedom movie was highly fictionalized.

You wonder why we feel the way we do about you. You've made a lot of bad posts, generally give piss poor takes, but this one is up there with the worst of them.

Or are you trolling?

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

It’s obvious this is why they don’t want voter ID.

You 100% should show your ID when voting

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

Wasy

You clearly haven’t read my links so I’m probably wasting my time here. “Definitely bad things happened on the journey”. Uh nah, they happened after they got here too and I’ve posted several links to prove it. One involving thousands of children 12 and under to work long shifts. Our country moved on from this a century ago. This “ on the way here” narrative you’ve been finessing for a couple of days now shifts more of the culpability to the cartels, away from the Biden admin. I hold our leaders to a different standard than gangbangers.
Furthermore, without dna testing how do you know they’re being placed with relatives? Quit pretending you know most of these kids are okay. You don’t.

Easy...im still looking, and will say that some certainties that seem to be said of happening in our convo isn't quite spelled out that way in some of the links im looking through, moreso "more probable" and such...

 

[Mac9192]

Here's the truth. Take CNN vs Fox. Both have an agenda. But Fox has a higher batting average. Much, much higher. They were right about Covid, Biden, his son's laptop, the border.... CNN has been wrong on all of it. The left is nowhere near the left when Bill Clinton was in office. They are now clinically insane. The right isn't right about everything, but they're much closer to reality than what the left has become. John Fetterman, who I thought was a walking zombie in 24, is now the only reasonable Democrat out there. Heck, he may be more reasonable than most all the Republicans.

The right also did not ruin major cities either. After all of this, our two libs here are still onboard with their party. I would call it loyal, but they're delusional They don't even realize how off the rails their side has become. In this thread they dismiss the border/trafficking issue being as dangerous as we say it is.

 

[KDSTONE]

Edit

 

[KDSTONE]

Wasy

Easy...im still looking, and will say that some certainties that seem to be said of happening in our convo isn't quite spelled out that way in some of the links im looking through, moreso "more probable" and such...

This is the part where I suggest that you Google search “ Are migrant children being trafficked in the US?” and you can nitpick the sources offered to your heart’s content.

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You wonder why we feel the way we do about you. You've made a lot of bad posts, generally give piss poor takes, but this one is up there with the worst of them.

Or are you trolling?

What did I say that is wrong about the Sound of Freedom movie?

 

[Ghost of Dattier]

You 100% should show your ID when voting

Ultimately? Sure. The SAVE Act ain't the way.