Golf Issue, not about soccer...

[Bulldog Bruce]

I have had this thought for awhile and the Bryson De Chambeau 2 stroke penalty is the latest occurrence. I have watched the video and I can see how maybe it could be seen as a penalty. Many people and people who report on golf showed examples of similar actions on tour events that did not incur the same penalty. The issue I have is I have read some stories that the review happened because people complained when they saw it on TV. I have always had a big problem with that type of officiating. Rules are in place to try and keep competition fair for all involved. It seems if I was a PGA tour player I would ask them not to show me on TV because it increases my chances to be penalized during my round. Especially when on a major they have officials with each group. It should be up to that official and his opponent to call out the player for a violation at the time. You can't have video reviews unless you record every single shot by every player in the tournament. If they had full video of every competitor, then it would be fair to use it.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The one that always got me was back in the early 90s I think when Craig Stadler was trying to hit a ball under a tree and he was going to hit from his knees so he put a towel down so he wouldn’t get his pants dirty. Someone called in and said that was improving his stance…2 stroke penalty.

 

[John Deaux VII]

The one that always got me was back in the early 90s I think when Craig Stadler was trying to hit a ball under a tree and he was going to hit from his knees so he put a towel down so he wouldn’t get his pants dirty. Someone called in and said that was improving his stance…2 stroke penalty.

I'm all for fairness and applying the rules equitably to everyone, but these people who go to the trouble to call rules violations in that they see on TV need their asses kicked.

 

[leeinator]

I have had this thought for awhile and the Bryson De Chambeau 2 stroke penalty is the latest occurrence. I have watched the video and I can see how maybe it could be seen as a penalty. Many people and people who report on golf showed examples of similar actions on tour events that did not incur the same penalty. The issue I have is I have read some stories that the review happened because people complained when they saw it on TV. I have always had a big problem with that type of officiating. Rules are in place to try and keep competition fair for all involved. It seems if I was a PGA tour player I would ask them not to show me on TV because it increases my chances to be penalized during my round. Especially when on a major they have officials with each group. It should be up to that official and his opponent to call out the player for a violation at the time. You can't have video reviews unless you record every single shot by every player in the tournament. If they had full video of every competitor, then it would be fair to use it.

True, almost every penalty I have ever seen was prompted by a fan in the gallery who knew the rules, or by one who saw it happen watching tv from the comfort of his home and called it in. A few others were complaints from competitor PGA golfers or ones that the player himself, self-reported.

 

[mstateglfr]

I have never understood why the PGA tour or any governor body for golf would even have a phone number for viewers to call into and report rule violations.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

If you set down to read the rules of golf, you might just shoot yourself.
Many of these rules were put in place by a bunch of old codgers that had nothing better to do than
crap on your day. ...JMO, and I did not just come to that conclusion.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I'm all for fairness and applying the rules equitably to everyone, but these people who go to the trouble to call rules violations in that they see on TV need their asses kicked.

Also if I remember correctly the course was planning on cutting that specific tree down and they invited Stadler to come chainsaw it down, which he accepted.

 

[Villagedawg]

The one that always got me was back in the early 90s I think when Craig Stadler was trying to hit a ball under a tree and he was going to hit from his knees so he put a towel down so he wouldn’t get his pants dirty. Someone called in and said that was improving his stance…2 stroke penalty.

I seem to remember someone clipping a twig with his club on the backswing, and getting a penalty for improving his lie.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

From ChatGPT

In 1987, Craig Stadler—nicknamed "The Walrus"—was involved in one of the most famous rules controversies in golf history.

Here's what happened:

• During the third round of the 1987 Shearson Lehman Brothers Andy Williams Open at Torrey Pines (now the Farmers Insurance Open), Stadler hit his drive under a tree with very low branches.
• The only way to play the shot was to get down on his knees.
• Because the ground was wet and muddy, he placed a towel on the ground and knelt on it to keep his pants dry while making the shot.

At the time, the Rules of Golf prohibited a player from "building a stance." Officials determined that by placing the towel under his knees, Stadler had artificially improved his stance, even though he wasn't trying to gain a playing advantage—just to stay dry.

The unusual part came the next day:

• NBC replayed the shot during its Sunday broadcast.
• Television viewers called tournament officials to report the possible rules violation.
• Officials reviewed the footage and agreed Stadler should have received a two-stroke penalty for the previous day's round.
• But Stadler had already signed his third-round scorecard without that penalty. Under the rules then in effect, signing an incorrect scorecard resulted in disqualification, even though he didn't know he'd committed a violation.

The ruling cost him:

• An apparent tie for second place.
• About $37,333 in prize money.
• Valuable Ryder Cup points.

The incident became one of golf's best-known examples of "trial by television," where TV viewers reported infractions after seeing replays. The controversy eventually contributed to changes in how golf handles viewer call-ins and scorecard penalties. Today, a player generally is not disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard if it omitted a penalty the player did not know about at the time.

A memorable epilogue: in 1995, the tree involved in the incident was dying, and Torrey Pines invited Stadler back to cut it down with a chainsaw—a bit of poetic justice that he happily accepted.

 

[olblue]

I have had this thought for awhile and the Bryson De Chambeau 2 stroke penalty is the latest occurrence. I have watched the video and I can see how maybe it could be seen as a penalty. Many people and people who report on golf showed examples of similar actions on tour events that did not incur the same penalty. The issue I have is I have read some stories that the review happened because people complained when they saw it on TV. I have always had a big problem with that type of officiating. Rules are in place to try and keep competition fair for all involved. It seems if I was a PGA tour player I would ask them not to show me on TV because it increases my chances to be penalized during my round. Especially when on a major they have officials with each group. It should be up to that official and his opponent to call out the player for a violation at the time. You can't have video reviews unless you record every single shot by every player in the tournament. If they had full video of every competitor, then it would be fair to use it.

How would you reconcile that request with your sponsors who depend on media exposure to advance their brand?

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

How would you reconcile that request with your sponsors who depend on media exposure to advance their brand?

They could show me walking after the shot and when I pick up my trophy for playing penalty free.

 

[champdawg.sixpack]

Dustin Johnson in 2010. Was not in in a bunker , but loose dirt. Grounded his club. 2 striker. Cost him pga major. ********

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Dustin Johnson in 2010. Was not in in a bunker , but loose dirt. Grounded his club. 2 striker. Cost him pga major. ********

He was in a bunker that spectators had been walking in. That course has so many bunkers that not all of them are inside the ropes.

From ESPN article:

Johnson wasn't feeling stupid Sunday, just stunned. Whistling Straits has more than 1,000 bunkers, several of which would normally be deemed "waste areas" in which a player can ground his club.

But a local rule was in play for the championship, stating that all sand areas would be played as hazards.

 

[champdawg.sixpack]

He was in a bunker that spectators had been walking in. That course has so many bunkers that not all of them are inside the ropes.

From ESPN article:

Johnson wasn't feeling stupid Sunday, just stunned. Whistling Straits has more than 1,000 bunkers, several of which would normally be deemed "waste areas" in which a player can ground his club.

But a local rule was in play for the championship, stating that all sand areas would be played as hazards.

But in those situations, the official should be required to inform the player that it is a trap and he can’t ground club. I mean it’s a 2 million dollar shot

 

[golferdog]

If you set down to read the rules of golf, you might just shoot yourself.
Many of these rules were put in place by a bunch of old codgers that had nothing better to do than
crap on your day. ...JMO, and I did not just come to that conclusion.

Golf does have some very picky and over the top rules, but as always, these rules were put in place because people can't resist the temptation to improve their lie. Golf is a really hard game and it takes a lot of integrity to play it according to the rules.

 

[fedxdog]

I have had this thought for awhile and the Bryson De Chambeau 2 stroke penalty is the latest occurrence. I have watched the video and I can see how maybe it could be seen as a penalty. Many people and people who report on golf showed examples of similar actions on tour events that did not incur the same penalty. The issue I have is I have read some stories that the review happened because people complained when they saw it on TV. I have always had a big problem with that type of officiating. Rules are in place to try and keep competition fair for all involved. It seems if I was a PGA tour player I would ask them not to show me on TV because it increases my chances to be penalized during my round. Especially when on a major they have officials with each group. It should be up to that official and his opponent to call out the player for a violation at the time. You can't have video reviews unless you record every single shot by every player in the tournament. If they had full video of every competitor, then it would be fair to use it.

The PGA sets the rules, not the players. It's all about TV money, not "players rights."

 

[Shmuley]

Point of Order: Who are these people who "phone in" rules violations? And why are they allowed access to people who make rules decisions?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

He was in a bunker that spectators had been walking in. That course has so many bunkers that not all of them are inside the ropes.

From ESPN article:

Johnson wasn't feeling stupid Sunday, just stunned. Whistling Straits has more than 1,000 bunkers, several of which would normally be deemed "waste areas" in which a player can ground his club.

But a local rule was in play for the championship, stating that all sand areas would be played as hazards.

It was an 8”x8” bare spot. Hardly a bunker.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Point of Order: Who are these people who "phone in" rules violations? And why are they allowed access to people who make rules decisions?

I don’t think they do that anymore.

 

[Shmuley]

I don’t think they do that anymore.

I’ve also noticed that they have instructed the camera people NOT to show super close ups of guys addressing the ball on fluffy lies.

 

[Darryl Steight]

Point of Order: Who are these people who "phone in" rules violations? And why are they allowed access to people who make rules decisions?

I bet Hugh Freeze is one of them.**

 

[Colonel Angus.sixpack]

Weren’t several other guys playing in the tournament watching that as it happened? Even if someone hadn’t called it in the players watching would have reported it and probably did before someone called. That was some tall grass, I’m no rules expert but I’m pretty sure you can’t mat all that down like you are preparing a camp site. Bryson knows that and just got caught.

 

[patdog]

Weren’t several other guys playing in the tournament watching that as it happened? Even if someone hadn’t called it in the players watching would have reported it and probably did before someone called. That was some tall grass, I’m no rules expert but I’m pretty sure you can’t mat all that down like you are preparing a camp site. Bryson knows that and just got caught.

Let the other players complain or the tour officials call it then. Penalizing a player because of a call from some random fan is ridiculous. Could you imagine calling the NFL to let them know about a penalty you saw and they actually go back and enforce the penalty?

 

[mstateglfr]

I do wonder how far back you can and step on grass that will change how the grass lays, without it being a penalty.
Standing behind the ball, to line up the ball with a target, is normal.
Practice swings tear out grass all the time- is a practice swing in tall grass not allowed because it could tear out grass that would otherwise be in the way of the swing?...a lot of players practice swing sideways behind the ball too.

Moving a 1' large rock that is behind your ball is allowed.
Moving a fallen 15' long dead branch that is behind your ball is allowed.
Moving some long grass aside is a penalty.


I get that the grass is no different from a bush, and it is a penalty to step on and break a bush or break branches from practice swings.
Its just funny to see a penalty for grass being disturbed before the swing, since the game is played on grass.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

Could you imagine calling the NFL to let them know about a penalty you saw and they actually go back and enforce the penalty?

I think that was an SNL sketch, with Joe Piscopo as Frank Sinatra. He called Lambeau Field.

 

[mstateglfr]

Let the other players complain or the tour officials call it then. Penalizing a player because of a call from some random fan is ridiculous. Could you imagine calling the NFL to let them know about a penalty you saw and they actually go back and enforce the penalty?

Oh that would be entertaining! Haha, the switchboards would be lit from the kickoff and stay that way.
Thousands of people calling in at once to yell about missed offensive holding...only for thousands more to do the same thing 30 seconds later for the entire game.

Wow that would be brutal.

 

[Darryl Steight]

I think we should probably combine these two great concepts and allow fans to call in to FIFA whenever they see an offside or a penalty.

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I do wonder how far back you can and step on grass that will change how the grass lays, without it being a penalty.
Standing behind the ball, to line up the ball with a target, is normal.
Practice swings tear out grass all the time- is a practice swing in tall grass not allowed because it could tear out grass that would otherwise be in the way of the swing?...a lot of players practice swing sideways behind the ball too.

Moving a 1' large rock that is behind your ball is allowed.
Moving a fallen 15' long dead branch that is behind your ball is allowed.
Moving some long grass aside is a penalty.


I get that the grass is no different from a bush, and it is a penalty to step on and break a bush or break branches from practice swings.
Its just funny to see a penalty for grass being disturbed before the swing, since the game is played on grass.

I agree the rules are harsh, but you are supposed to be careful with your practice swings in such a situation. The whole purpose of the tall grass is to make your shot more difficult, so tearing it up with practice swings isn't fair.

Personally, I dont like taking big swings in tall grass away from my ball, either. Just seems like bad etiquette to chop up grass that is supposed to be punitive. Maybe Im wrong. I will take some easy swings away from my ball to test the thickness of the grass but thats about it.

Of course, Im not trying to win The Open, either.

 

[patdog]

I think that was an SNL sketch, with Joe Piscopo as Frank Sinatra. He called Lambeau Field.

I bet that was funny. Piscopo is an underrated forgotten cast member. But he was great.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I bet that was funny. Piscopo is an underrated forgotten cast member. But he was great.

Or when he’s Sinatra and Eddie Murphy is Stevie Wonder.

 

[patdog]

Or when he’s Sinatra and Eddie Murphy is Stevie Wonder.

We didn't realize how good that generation of SNL performers were at the time, because we kept wishing we had the old ones. But looking back, I actually think that group may have been better.

 

[RebelRH]

Kevin Kisner summed it up best at the start of the Saturday morning broadcast. He said they made the ruling based on the video. He said the problem with the video was a rules official was not in it. He said every group has a rules official. The rules official is not only to call you on a rule violation but also advise you on possible rule violations. I took he didn't like the call but because he was broadcasting he had to straddle the fence. Out of all of the talking heads that piled on and had opinions he is the only one that made sense.

 

[goindhoo]

I didnt like the ruling because you can never clearly see where the ball is sitting. Hard to say he stepped on grass behind the ball when you dont know where the ball is. Usually, they defer to the player's judgment. But not Bryson's

On a different scenario, if you dont think wyndam clark shoud have been penalized in US open, Bryson shouldnt have either. But that's two different rules officials and USGA may just be gutless.

 

[She Mate Me]

Or when he’s Sinatra and Eddie Murphy is Stevie Wonder.

“You are blind as a bat, and I have sight!!…”

 

[RocketDawg]

I don’t think they do that anymore.

I believe that's correct for the PGA, but apparently not for the R&A. The official who was explaining the rule said it was due to a call in, if I recall correctly.

 

[RocketDawg]

I agree the rules are harsh, but you are supposed to be careful with your practice swings in such a situation. The whole purpose of the tall grass is to make your shot more difficult, so tearing it up with practice swings isn't fair.

Personally, I dont like taking big swings in tall grass away from my ball, either. Just seems like bad etiquette to chop up grass that is supposed to be punitive. Maybe Im wrong. I will take some easy swings away from my ball to test the thickness of the grass but thats about it.

Of course, Im not trying to win The Open, either.

I believe that's what the rule says as well - swings ok are away from the ball, but not in the line of your swing.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Or when he’s Sinatra and Eddie Murphy is Stevie Wonder.

SW: I am black and you are white.
FS: you are blind as a bat and I have sight

 

[Wesson Bulldog]

Bryson should have done the old oh look there's a bird trick And when everybody turns to look his caddy picks up the ball and rolls into the edge of the Fairway

 

[pacificnwdawg]

The problem I have (as some pros, and maybe some here have pointed out), is that the big names are playing guys a different set of rules because all of there shots are broadcast where the rest of the field is not. What if only one team had the benefit of instant replay in a game? I am a huge golfer and I love the whole "protect the integrity of the game" concept, but since the rules or golf are rarely ever completely cut and dry I just don't think that works in 2026.

 

[RocketDawg]

Bryson should have done the old oh look there's a bird trick And when everybody turns to look his caddy picks up the ball and rolls into the edge of the Fairway

Don't know if true, but it's reported that DeChambeau wanted Trump to intervene on his behalf, since they are golf buddies. Trump thankfully turned him down, probably after all the blowback about the soccer red card. That would have been terrible.