Adam Silver stepped in to clean up WNBA’s Caitlin Clark mess with Cathy Engelbert under fire

[Seton75]

It's tough since Caitlin is so special in her court vision and shooting range, that people built her up that she will be the best player that the W has ever seen but the rest of her game is lacking so it's natural to wonder why she gets more attention than any other player.

If I were a GM worried about winning, I would take a lot of guards over Cailin today. If I cared more about revenue, I'd pick Clark.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's inaccurate to say Caitlin would not be as popular if she were black but that really isn't her fault as much as the other players seem to want to blame her for it.

Yeah, I tend to agree. But, while Bird controversally got similar pub early, MJ became the face of the NBA, way bigger than bird, magic (who also surpassed Bird in time), kareem etc (and well deserved of course)

I dont watch wnba. I will tune into cc games, enough to like her game, not enough to know what I am talking about re the league. Is her d that nuch worse than brunson's or other high scoring smaller guards?

And with clickbait algorithm journalism (sic), many (most) of us, me for sure, will have an incomplete, inacurate pail of info poured into our laps daily, which I bet has a lot to do with this and most controversies kicking around these days.

 

[HallLine69]

Compare the stats, play, importance and leadership of Clark and Page Beuckers. Then compare their backgrounds and personal life. Them compare how they are treated by segments of fans and players Just sayin.

I never paid attention to the WNBA pre-Caitlin Clark. Once I started watching i was amazed at the talent of quite a few of these women. Then Paige Bueckers entered the league and I find her game to be just outstanding. She also appears to be a very grounded, self-assured young woman....much more comfortable in her skin than Clark. Gradually I've become a frequent watcher of WNBA games. Physicality of play, competence/consistency of referees and weak leadership of the commissioner are all problematic, but overall I find the WNBA to be a pretty good product. Paige Bueckers is a very likeable person and a dynamic player. As far as I'm concerned, no single player should be referred to as the face of that league.

 

[HallLine69]

WGAS

We already know you don't....congratulations. There are plenty of people who have come to appreciate the WNBA. Since you don't GAS, why waste your time on this thread? Does it bring you satisfaction to denigrate those women? I otherwise respect the hell out of your basketball knowledge, judgment and opinions

 

[HallLine69]

Another issue in the middle of this, white vs black, gay vs straight

Which is so ridiculous. It astounds me how so many people get wrapped up in color/sexual orientation. I guess as a society we will never learn.

 

[Merge]

I dont watch wnba. I will tune into cc games, enough to like her game, not enough to know what I am talking about re the league. Is her d that nuch worse than brunson's or other high scoring smaller guards?

Could be because of her injuries but she just doesn't seem like she is quick enough one on one. Teams have realized that they can exploit that and have been attacking her. She is fouling more this year in less minutes per game. She's still smart and understands angles and where the ball is going better than most so she's not necessarily bad overall but this year, her +/- is about even but her on-off +/- is negative 11. The fever are better when she is off the court.

It's hard to compare to the NBA where someone like Brunson is going to have significantly better help behind him, can really only compare to other guards in the WNBA.

 

[Merge]

I never paid attention to the WNBA pre-Caitlin Clark. Once I started watching i was amazed at the talent of quite a few of these women. Then Paige Bueckers entered the league and I find her game to be just outstanding. She also appears to be a very grounded, self-assured young woman....much more comfortable in her skin than Clark. Gradually I've become a frequent watcher of WNBA games. Physicality of play, competence/consistency of referees and weak leadership of the commissioner are all problematic, but overall I find the WNBA to be a pretty good product. Paige Bueckers is a very likeable person and a dynamic player. As far as I'm concerned, no single player should be referred to as the face of that league.

I think you nailed it. Fairly good product now with bad leadership.

Agree on Paige as well.

 

[Seton75]

Wgen I watched

Which is so ridiculous. It astounds me how so many people get wrapped up in color/sexual orientation. I guess as a society we will never learn.

Where have all the flowers gone...

 

[hbkmyr]

Not sure if it’s been noted but Kareem’s comments were in response to the letter from congress calling Clark the face of the league. They weren’t his words. The video in the tweet above is also AI, he wrote that opinion in his substack.

 

[Fishjam]

Adam Silver believes Caitlin Clark has become a ‘political football’ in WNBA​

Adam Silver believes Caitlin Clark has become a ‘political football’ in WNBA

Adam Silver thinks the drama surrounding Caitlin Clark goes beyond just foul calls.

nypost.com

So the player (Alyssa Thomas) who drove her knee into Clark's chest and her fist into her throat while she was on her back and was not even called for a common foul is complaining that the Commissioner isn't doing enough to protect HER? She needs to be protected from comments on social media.

That right there in a nutshell sums up a lot of the issues with the league. Too many people paint themselves as victims and think the world owes them something because of their religion, or nationality, or sexual orientation, or race, or sex, or any other group people align themselves with. People should align themselves as Human Beings and stop painting themselves into specific groups. Society and the World in general doesn't owe anyone anything, we are all on our own and create the type of life we want.

 

[HALL85]

So the player (Alyssa Thomas) who drove her knee into Clark's chest and her fist into her throat while she was on her back and was not even called for a common foul is complaining that the Commissioner isn't doing enough to protect HER? She needs to be protected from comments on social media.

That right there in a nutshell sums up a lot of the issues with the league. Too many people paint themselves as victims and think the world owes them something because of their religion, or nationality, or sexual orientation, or race, or sex, or any other group people align themselves with. People should align themselves as Human Beings and stop painting themselves into specific groups. Society and the World in general doesn't owe anyone anything, we are all on our own and create the type of life we want.

Your second paragraph IS the nutshell.

I used Beuchers as an example because their stats are so similar as is their impact. Both are excellent players and top five in the league. They are two players I really enjoy watching.

It’s unfortunate, but the league is tiptoeing on the whole, gay and racial issue. Clark didn’t show any arrogance or entitlement when she came into the league. Like it or not, she also got the attendance boon started. Maybe she has gotten a little bit more emotional since she has been the recipient of multiple flagrant fouls over two years while the league has done little to stop it.

 

[Section112]

Clark should see if she can go to Europe. F the WNBA if she can get paid. Then let's see if the WNBA is the same after she leaves.

 

[SPK145]

We already know you don't....congratulations. There are plenty of people who have come to appreciate the WNBA. Since you don't GAS, why waste your time on this thread? Does it bring you satisfaction to denigrate those women? I otherwise respect the hell out of your basketball knowledge, judgment and opinions

Saying WGAS doesn’t denigrate anyone.

What I do find curious is that there are always threads about say, college football or Rutgers, etc., where others say WGAS yet you never say they are denigrating players or make any fuss about it. Why is that? Be honest.

 

[Fishjam]

Fever's Caitlin Clark records WNBA's 1st 45-point, 10-assist double-double

Caitlin Clark scored a career-high 45 points and had 10 assists for the first 40-10 game in WNBA history, and the Indiana Fever beat Seattle 110-107.

www.espn.com

 

[Halldan]

Caitlin Clark pours in 45 points in her best WNBA performance yet​

Caitlin Clark pours in 45 points in her best WNBA performance yet

Caitlin Clark had the hot hand on Friday.

nypost.com

 

[HALL85]

Caitlin Clark pours in 45 points in her best WNBA performance yet​

Caitlin Clark pours in 45 points in her best WNBA performance yet

Caitlin Clark had the hot hand on Friday.

nypost.com

She obviously reads pirate crew.

 

[TommyD82]

Another issue in the middle of this, white vs black, gay vs straight

You both have valid points. What is Kareem talking about? Wemby is certainly the face of the NBA today.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Could be because of her injuries but she just doesn't seem like she is quick enough one on one. Teams have realized that they can exploit that and have been attacking her. She is fouling more this year in less minutes per game. She's still smart and understands angles and where the ball is going better than most so she's not necessarily bad overall but this year, her +/- is about even but her on-off +/- is negative 11. The fever are better when she is off the court.

It's hard to compare to the NBA where someone like Brunson is going to have significantly better help behind him, can really only compare to other guards in the WNBA.

Not that I have the details to prove it, but stats like the plus/minus stuff mentioned can very easily be misleading, because they depend greatly on the quality of the opposing team(s).

 

[HallGuy2323]

Another issue in the middle of this, white vs black, gay vs straight

Those are literally the only issues

 

[HallLine69]

Saying WGAS doesn’t denigrate anyone.

What I do find curious is that there are always threads about say, college football or Rutgers, etc., where others say WGAS yet you never say they are denigrating players or make any fuss about it. Why is that? Be honest.

My honest response is that when I see that comment about the WNBA it strikes me as demeaning to women athletes. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how it hits me.

 

[lloyde dobler]

I’m sure Seton 75 feels the same WGAS way about MLS, as do many of us, soccer fans included.

 

[SPK145]

My honest response is that when I see that comment about the WNBA it strikes me as demeaning to women athletes. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how it hits me.

That's very telling on you and your mindset.

And doesn't answer the question why you never respond to WGAS anywhere else. Sounds very phony to me. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how it hits me.

 

[PirateBlue08]

Jealousy they don’t like the straight white girl being the face of the league obviously

 

[hbkmyr]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

 

[VegasPJ1]

If I was the HC or Owner of Indiana, I'd go old school and get a serious goon on my team. Find the biggest, meanest, nastiest player to go in and kick anyone's *** who pulls those dirty shots on Clark. If the league isn't going to protect her, the team must do it.

The Richie Regan strategy. Everyone in Walsh knew what coming when Tom Plucinic (sp)
entered the game. Retaliation and then back to the bench. Classic!

 

[HALL85]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

Both are very good players but have been first team all league just once each and never have been in the MVP conversation much less “face of the league”.

 

[hbkmyr]

Both are very good players but have been first team all league just once each and never have been in the MVP conversation much less “face of the league”.

Ionesca was pushed hard as a face of the league since the day she was drafted. So much so she led the league in jersey sales in 21, 22 and 23. The build up to her being drafted was significant. She was built as a generational talent. The Curry 3 point contest was huge at the time.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sabrina-ionescus-organic-unprecedented-fame-130003614.html

 

[HallLine69]

That's very telling on you and your mindset.

And doesn't answer the question why you never respond to WGAS anywhere else. Sounds very phony to me. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how it hits me.

I answered you as honestly as I could. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As for your point about why I don't say WGAS about other topics, It's not some conscious decision to avoid the term.

Anyway, I'm sure we each have better things to do than to keep picking at one another other. Have a good one.

 

[HALL85]

Ionesca was pushed hard as a face of the league since the day she was drafted. So much so she led the league in jersey sales in 21, 22 and 23. The build up to her being drafted was significant. She was built as a generational talent. The Curry 3 point contest was huge at the time.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sabrina-ionescus-organic-unprecedented-fame-130003614.html

I’m not denigrating her at all. She’s an outstanding player but didnt move the needle on attendance like Clark and Beuchers have and it wasn’t until the Liberty acquired Stewart that they actually started winning (her fourth season).

It was a different league back then that got very little attention that desperately needed faces to promote.

 

[SPK145]

I answered you as honestly as I could. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. As for your point about why I don't say WGAS about other topics, It's not some conscious decision to avoid the term.

Anyway, I'm sure we each have better things to do than to keep picking at one another other. Have a good one.

All good, we’re both still douchebags, LOL.

 

[The_Hall]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

who??

 

[Fishjam]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

She's a nice player but you can't compare her to Clark's level of popularity. Since Clark, Bueckers and Reese entered the league, Ionescu is not even a top 5 Jersey anymore.

Clark has fueled a boom in the league with attendance doubling league-wide in her 3 years. The Indiana Fever quadrupled their attendance in her rookie year and they now average 17,000 per Road game. All of those Clark fans rooting for her in other team's home arenas has fueled jealousy.

Clark's popularity is unprecedented. Her Jersey sales her rookie year outsold Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Wemby & Doncic second only to Steph Curry. This year 71% percent of all WNBA Jersey sales are attributed to Clark and teammate Sophie Cunningham.

 

[hbkmyr]

Obviously clark is a more popular player. That’s not a debate. The point was there are other highly visible straight and white players that don’t even come close to having these issues. There can certainly be other reasons, like the fact that she’s a huge crybaby, why she’s disliked.

 

[HALL85]

Obviously clark is a more popular player. That’s not a debate. The point was there are other highly visible straight and white players that don’t even come close to having these issues. There can certainly be other reasons, like the fact that she’s a huge crybaby, why she’s disliked.

There has been jealousy of Clark the day she joined the WNBA. She actually took great pains to fit in.

Given how she has been the continuous brunt of cheap shots and flagrants while the league has done little, I can understand why she gets testy.

The NBA reigned in the league and instituted rule changes after the way the Pistons and others went after their best player (Jordan). Silver would be wise to do the same.

 

[hbkmyr]

 

[hbkmyr]

There has been jealousy of Clark the day she joined the WNBA. She actually took great pains to fit in.

Given how she has been the continuous brunt of cheap shots and flagrants while the league has done little, I can understand why she gets testy.

The NBA reigned in the league and instituted rule changes after the way the Pistons and others went after their best player (Jordan). Silver would be wise to do the same.

There is certainly some dynamic at play and she’s clearly disliked. I think there’s a lot of reasons for that.

 

[hallwins]

Completely legal screen. Lack of defensive awareness and communication.

Anyone remember when Grant failed to let Shaheen know about a massive blind screen in the back court? I think Sha missed a few games. Surprised Sha still spoke to Grant. LOL

 

[Seton75]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

People have to care about the face of something. Most people dont know who those woman are.

 

[Fishjam]

Completely legal screen. Lack of defensive awareness and communication.

Anyone remember when Grant failed to let Shaheen know about a massive blind screen in the back court? I think Sha missed a few games. Surprised Sha still spoke to Grant. LOL

The story there is that she got called for a technical for saying 2 words, "CALL IT!" That's a ridiculous technical foul called not even 2 minutes into the game.

The WNBA officials constantly miss blatant physicality yet have lightning-quick triggers to call technicals for questioning calls.

The same crew did not even call a foul on this play in the same game.

 

[PirateBlue08]

Sabirina Ionescu was consider a face of the league before Clark showed up. Shes straight and white and didn’t have these same issues. Kelsey Plum as well.

Ok it's not just that she is straight and white. It's that she's straight white and on top of that became overwhelmingly more popular than the league’s established stars almost overnight, while bringing a new fanbase that never cared about the WNBA before her. And Ionescu and Plum were never the face of the league to this degree, neither had the popularity of Clark. Clark is bigger than the whole league by herself. The jealousy is built on that context.

Saying she's a "crybaby" when she gets physically abused in games since her day 1 in the league is a ridiculous statement. Complaining about genuine missed calls does not make someone weak. She takes the abuse and keeps playing and doesn't blame the physicality when she loses.

 

[lloyde dobler]

And for each of the three mentioned above, it goes back to their popularity as college players, especially Clark.