Oh yeah, I remember. We wanted to fire Jackie in 1996, and Mullen in 2013. And were on our way to turning on Leach.
Could we hire PJ Fleck after this season?
- Thread starter OG Goat Holder
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Don't worry guy! State will hire Jimbo Fisher or Brian Kelly. We love hiring guys past their prime.
There's nuance in all of this.
Jackie essentially fired his entire staff to appease LT and keep his job. The rest is history, good and then bad.
Folks didn't want to run Mullen off for his coaching. It was more about his job hunting and how the team looked flat in egg bowls due to it.
Leach's teams were difficult to watch. And we weren't recruiting well at all, and we all knew there was going to be a price to pay for that at some point.
You have to look at all these situations in context.
You're right, I was thinking the schedule was more manageable. 6-6 does appear to be the peak.
Either of those coaches would have won 7 or 8 games with last year's team, instead of just 5.
I'm talking about 1996. We wanted him fired midseason. Beat Alabama and Ole Miss and suddenly everybody is giddy again. Same staff. There had been some changes after the 1995 season.
Everybody understands he should have been fired after 2002. And for whatever reason THAT is when we decide to be lenient.
Oh buddy, did they. I'm talking 2013 here. They wanted to bring back Hudspeth half way through that season. A few miracle wins (one Ole Miss, of course, because that's all our fans think about) and poof, he's a hero again. The only egg bowl he'd lost by that point was 2012, which was easy to see coming.
This is a complete myth, facts are not in your favor. This is not the old era, you can't use Lebby's 2024 results to justify this, because both Arnett and Lenny ran off half the team in each of their years at the helm.
The context is you have 3 winning coaches, and fans turning against them because of 'nuance'. Our fans think they know everything, understand every situation, etc. and they are clueless.
The staff is better - but how many of us would take Hevesy coaching the OL this afternoon?
Gladly. That's not an endorsement of Hevesy, but that's how bad it has been the last three years.
In 24? Yeah admitted that what I saw was with a healthy Dink and KBJ. They went down and we suffered. In 25 I said we wouid be better predicted 6-6. I missed it my one game. I’m saying that this year is further along than 2025 roster. I believe it will lead to more wins. Subbing UGA for Auburn is a a better match up. I’m a firm believer that Vandy reverts back to normal without Pavia and the losses on offense and defense. Mizz returns 0, zero defensive starters and who knows how healthy Hardy will be or what Simmons brings to the table
A basic explanation of the question
To make it specific to your post, you said this team is the most talent Lebby has had. Outside of KT, Issac Smith, and Evans I'm having a hard time seeing this talent.
Every one of these scenarios are rosey, happy path scenario. The reality is that a couple of them pan out and the rest don't. And injuries are part of the game and they will impact this year too. "I was right in 24 if Dink hadn't gotten hurt" really isn't a validation. And you can't underestimate the Lebby factor. So this is why we are looking at 5-7 and a coaching change, because everything otherwise has to go perfectly well for us and you know that's not going to happen.
You have to account for all of it, not just best case scenarios across the board.
WR Johnson from Mizz, McVay from UNC at LT, DJ Chester all freshman sec at guard/center from LSU Pruhome from Ark. Bothwell, Kelly Jones, Jaylin Smith Z Tillman and Lockhart at LB. Return T Williams and Kalvin Dikins at DT, Bledsoe and Reed allot with big Diesel at DT, add in Evan’s from ATM. Return Whitson and DE, adding A Williams from FSU. Secondary will be very good at both corners and safety’s.
Our coaching and depth is better than at anytime in the last 4 years. I’m pretty salty on this years team but if we struggle to win then yes I will be on board with a coaching search. But I’m also willing to see how the season plays out
And I say aGAIN, you're making assumptions that these are all going to show up as net positives on the field. Some will, and some won't. Some won't be as advertised. Some, you will see why they were down on the depth chart at other places. Maybe someone you didn't mention here turns out to be a diamond in the rough.
Yeah, if all these guys you mention turn out to be upgrades on the field, that should translate into more wins if Lebby can stay out of his own damn way. But you and I both know it's not going to work out that way. There will be disappointments, there will be injuries, and there will be some benefits in there too. And it will all shake out about like we're used to.
You were probably in the groups that thought BT wasn’t going to help out? Hell of a find.
John’s and Montgomery will be a net positive on in game decisions. A lot of you all blaming Lebby on the FL loss forget. We made the FG but due to some archaic rule it wasn’t reviewable. They forget the INT was an RPO that Shapen pulled the ball from the RB and didn’t see the DL drop into coverage. Clock management against Texas sure gotta be better. But had we been able to have a little more depth and talent like we have this year I think we could have won those games not to mention John’s Miller and Monty on sidelines.
Not sure he could handle the springs, summers, and falls here. Hasn't he been upper midwest his entire life?
I’m thinking more along the lines of he wouldn’t take a job in the sec thats a career killer with Small fanbase, less nil than everyone else and a losing history.
We'd have to pay him. But we won't, and it's likely wasted money anyway, because our fanbase won't get in line unless the coach says mUh RuNdAbAwL wiff mUh DuAl ThReAt
I can't imagine why, with these results through eight games the season after going 3-8 including losing to NE LA. In two seasons we had lost to every Louisiana team north on I-20. It wasn't an unreasonable opinion. Also, Derrick Taite.
All I see here are excuses. You know I'm right and you're still arguing with me.
I don't know why you're singling out Brenan, either. I clearly said some will work out and some won't. And your response is to cherry pick BT? No shlt he was good for us but let's be honest... he has exactly one more SEC victory at Mississippi State on his record than I do.
When you have a winning coach, you stick with them, unless there's obvious reasons. After what we'd seen from him for 5 years, after the purgatory we'd been through before that, you'd think we'd recognize what we had. Nope. And don't even get me started on booing the QBs. And we wonder why we never have one. As pathetic as our history is, it's just so ironic that our people seem to think they know what's best for MSU football.
2002 was a different animal, we knew about the personal things we were dealing with, we were being beat down consistently, etc. And even then, bringing him back for 2003 wasn't just downright pathetic, considering the history and the recruiting class. To me the bigger problem was hiring Croom, especially when we had half a season to be looking.
Jackie was 28-28-2 on the field starting the 1996 season, and 31-33-2 going into the 1996 Bama game. He'd had two seven win seasons, an eight win season, and two three win seasons and hadn't won a bowl game. Let's not revisionist history this.
Edit: Twice now you've brought up 2002 without ANYONE prompting you to do so. That is NOT what we are talking about.
I grew up during that era. I remember clearly how hopeless the 80s were and how we, at minimum, looked like a football program that was to be respected, while the Kang was in charge. It was cool to play football at MSU during that time, and we were proud to be fans. I'd say again, but it was the first time ever for me.
Because I know as soon as someone sees me taking up for Jackie and saying we shouldn't have fired him, they'd point to that to discredit the notion. This board was founded during that time, after all. Every coach has a shelf life and his was up.
"You were probably." Just stop with throwing sh*t against the wall when someone disagrees with you . Here's the trap you're falling into. And it's one I used to when I was younger and more naive too. We "upgraded" at every position, even though virtually all new players are 3* players who weren't heavily recruited. But we found the "hidden gems." Well, in a few cases we probably did. But when you keep compounding this 3* is an upgrade, this 3* is an upgrade, this 3* is an upgrade, etc. Well, with each one the odds they're all (or even most of them) upgrades go down quickly. And then you act like an injury is a completely freak thing that no one could have expected. Newsflash, we will have injuries. And some of them will be pretty critical.
Whatever. If by "our fan base" you meant the few idiots on message boards calling for Mullen's firing , then yeah, our fan base wanted him fired in 2013.
The reality is that Mullen didn't have widespread frustration within the fanbase until his job shopping became a problem.
And yes, Leach's teams were tough to watch. This isn't even a debatable point. His offense had become absolute shlt with Will Rogers in there completing 50 4 yard passes per game. Ticket sales and game attendance bore this out.
There's a difference between "winning coaches" and "good coaches." Moorhead was a winning coach based on record. But he was a terrible coach. Are you one of those guys who say we should never fire a coach that wins six games?
Arnett was said to upgrade in 2023, when he changed the offense.
Lenny was said to have upgraded in 2024, when he ran off all the young players.
Then again in 2025, because he now had a network to work with that wasn't there in 2024.
Ole boys that wanted to get Cam Newton were actively trying to get Hud, man. You got dementia?
I enjoy watching competent football teams, and that's exactly what we were. Fact that our fans hated it reinforces our toxic, idiotic mentality.
I agree. I meant good coaches.
