As much as I think eyes is a dumb@ss he’s right on this one. NIL/portal had just opened, COVID happened, we got decimated with players leaving and injuries. That was a 2-3 year blip within 27 years of great OL play in the Ferentz era, I’m not worried if 1 singular recruiting class is lower on stars. We’ll use guys from other classes, develop internally, or patch a hole with a transfer.
Football recruiting
- Thread starter RomanHawk
- Start date
I guess tightends don’t play in the nfl troll
See the bold:
"Legitimate progress" is not yet seen going into year 3 with Tim Lester. We are still unable to appeal to wide receivers, our biggest problem area along with quarterback.
An Iowa wide receiver could get drafted (LONG SHOT) in the future but if our recruiters don't have exciting-looking statistics to pitch to their priority recruits.....
.....Recruiter: "Take a look at this guy from 2026! He averaged 5 receptions a game and finished with over 60 to go with 8 TDs and there's potential he's got an NFL future" etc. etc.
Offensive players want to put up the stats and we need to have that in our pocket out on the recruiting trail.
He is wrong. We literally just brought in our best Oline recruiting class in years just last year. I swear, the attention span of people these days is like 5 minutes long.
I’m not saying the sky is falling and everyone needs to be fired, ffs there is nuance. I am saying there is reason for concern when we miss out on primary targets on the O line to the likes of Illinois, MSU, Nebraska and Mizzou. Those aren’t exactly titans of college football.
My main point is I take issue with anyone that thinks the portal is some great elixir for a program like Iowa when all the evidence points to the contrary. Particularly on O line success.
They loaded up last year with 5 OL recruits, headlined by Nielsen and Parliament. This year will net a few, but next years class is an important one within he state. Barrett and Heying have offers from all over the country.
Maybe those schools offered the most money and are desperate. And we lost a Nebraska kid to Nebraska. How does that happen!
Anyone who doesn’t worship KF= Troll
- 85Bears
Sure it seems predictable, family ties and all, but I think it was pretty darn close. He had to have noticed the difference between the numbers of NFL OL from Iowa vs. Nebraska.
We missed on a 3* OL, I can get over it. Iowa can find another '27 OL prospect who will work hard, make All-Big Ten and play for years in the NFL. It's what Iowa does.
Not only was it a couple year blip of bad o-line play in 26+ years.
But KF had almost nothing to do with the mass attrition, or the dynamic that accentuated the lack of readiness for the guys that had to step in.
Which would only make sense to anyone who doesn't have their head up their ***
1. Iowa doesn't care for players that care about any stat other than W's.
2. Why skill positions are even being discussed, when it comes to Iowa football, is laughable. Skill positions have never been part of what's made Iowa a successful program for 26+ years.
But while we're at it, many feel Wetjen is a receiver (I tend to disagree). But was he not just drafted?
3. If non-functional offense becoming a functional offense isn’t "legitimate progress" (offensively), then that's entirely a commentary on fans. Remember, people wanted KF's head when his offenses were ranked in the 40's.
4. But absolutely true, that the improved offense hasn't resulted in anything close to legitimate progress, when it comes to wins
Anyone who has an overall sentiment about KF, that isn't exceedingly positive, is clueless, and simply, is bad for sports
The antiquated outside zone blocking scheme didn't help. The mid-zone scheme has changed the game again.
Yes, it has helped.
But it wasn't what broke the o-line. And it wasn't what fixed the o-line.
The story of what happened to Iowa's offense in '22/'23 has been so widely and thoroughly misunderstood and mischaracterized, that really, people need to simply understand the simple truth of the matter.
At least people are starting to understand that the offense stalled out, simply and only when the o-line broke.
Again, yes, blocking scheme has helped. Even in '23, Iowa was able to get some mileage out of incorporating much more gap scheme. But the outside zone wasn't completely antiquated. It was still working enough when Iowa had lineman that were capable of being on the field.
And no, there is no accuracy to the "lack of talent recruited at o-line" narrative that got invented.
The simple truth of what happened is Iowa suffered MASS attrition to the o-line. And the guys that were forced to step in were nowhere near physically ready, due to some completely unforseen circumstances.
Iowa was literally left with a group of lineman that had no business being on the field. They weren't anywhere near ready, in terms of individual experience and group cohesiveness. But PRIMARILY, they were nowhere near physically big and strong enough yet.
Anyone that actually had a clue, could see that the uniforms were nowhere near filled out. And that those lineman that weren't yet big and strong enough, were able to get zero push up-front. Game over, at least offensively.
The fact that people want to talk about nepotism and playcalling and such, speaks to two things. 1. How little most football fans understand about what they're actually watching. 2. And that some fans were already blinded by their frustration that, to them, Iowa's offense had never been entertaining enough.
Football will always primarily be a game of physics. That's why the NFL drafts size/strength (mass) and speed.
That's how many of those lineman that weren't anywhere near ready in '22, turned into NFL players and Joe Moore winners.
And that's how Kirk was able to tell us, with complete transparency and accuracy along the way, how the o-line rebuild would play out, long before Lester was ever hired
Let's test what you say here, knowing that you didn't use google prior to making these comments. I'm certainly not seeing the "size discrepancy that you are discussing. With regards to attrition, there was some, in the likes of Davidikov, Britt...It isn't like we haven't seen that now, Cody Fox and Myslinski (similar to Britt) right off the bat.
The switch to motion, RPO, and mid-zone scheme made a drastic difference in the offense. It allows lineman to get down field to hit LBs, doesn't force unison blocking, with far better versatility against varied fronts. As always, Iowa needs a threat at QB both in the run/throw, but there were immediate effects of the change of blocking scheme.
2022-2023
LT: Mason Richman: 6'6" 308 pounds. (So)
LG: Connor Colby: 6'6" 308 pounds (returning freshman all-American) (So)
C: Logan Jones: 6'3" 283 pounds (So)
RG: Nick Dejong 6'6" 300 pounds (Jr)
RT: Jack Plumb 6'7" 298 pounds (Sr)
vs
2025-2026
LT: Trevor Lauck 6'5" 310 pounds (So)
LG: Beau Stephens 6'5" 315 pounds (Sr)
C: Logan Jones: 6'3" 302 pounds (GR)
RG: Kade Pieper 6'4" 290 pounds (So)
RT: Gennings Dunker 6'5" 315 pounds (Sr)
vs
Projected 2026-2027
LT: Trevor Lauck 6'5" 310 pounds (Jr)
LG: Leighton Jones 6'2" 288 pounds (Jr)
C: Kade Pieper 6'4" 290 pounds (Jr)
RG: Lucas Allgeyer 6'5" 300 pounds (rsFr)
RT: Jack Dotzler 6'6" 300 pounds (Sr)
We are talking 17 year old kids. Do we all make wise decisions at that age? The Rhuler is a greasy used car salesman and you can just smell his cologne.
Allgeyer next star on the O line after Pieper
Bro, the point is where the '22 Iowa lineman were in their own personal developments. They all ended up putting on weight and, more importantly, strength.
You might as well compare '22's weights to the weights of any o-line in football.
Going to find a lot of lines with a lot of guys somewhere around 300 lbs.Jones 19 lbs heavier as a senior. Stephens put on 15. Elsbury 8. Richman and Colby both added a handful of lbs. (All differences over the '22 weights you gave)
There's a difference between good and bad weight. And each player carries and uses his weight differently. What gets developed is a man/pound-for-pound strength, that's essentially power per square inch.
Guys have to develop into their bodies. And quite often for Iowa o-lineman, that has been a several year process. They've often taken undersized lineman with good feet and built them up. But even their heavier recruits have tended to be more mobile than strong, and have needed development in the weight room.
Guys during that time had their weight room development stunted by the covid shutdown. Most significantly, probably with the Jones, Richman, Elsbury class. They were incoming freshmen that season. And on top of that, Iowa lost Doyle at that time, which put the strength and conditioning program into a transition period, at best. It's fair to say guys didn't get the typical level of benefit from strength training that season. Those guys couldn't have started on a worse foot.
Imagine Jones' case. Comes in (as DL) at 267 lbs, after his covid/Doyle less compromised summer. Redshirts. Then misses most of Fr season with injury. Then switches to center as a sophomore. You don't think he was underdeveloped?
Then consider the Colby, Stephens, Dunker, Myslinski class. They all missed strength training in the summer before their senior years in high school, due to covid shutdown. Also a critical time for physical development. Some of those guys may have missed the entire season. I'm not sure.
But basically, guys during this time period were maybe 4-12 months behind in their development. A sophomore, for example wouldn't have been as strong as a typical sophomore.
This dynamic existed at every program. But those guys weren't forced into early action at other programs. Again, it was MASS attrition at Iowa. As I stated earlier in the thread, it could be argued to have been EIGHT o-lineman, that were at one time projected to be rotational players, that did not take a single snap in '22. And again, the guys at Iowa during that time, probably didn't get the best version of Iowa's strength and conditioning program, either.
I don't know why you've downplayed the amount of attrition. You don't seem to be completely clueless. So let me guess: you either were already frustrated (before '22) by an Iowa offense that wasn't entertaining enough for you; or you have a sensitivity to nepotism; or both.
Again, yes mid-zone and motion has helped. Iowa really hasn't even run that much rpo yet, under Lester. But you think mid-zone and motion turned many of the same guys from members of the worst o-lines I've seen at Iowa, into pros and Joe Moore winners?
Stop. What's wrong with the truth? These guys were forced into action long before they were ready.Again, It's exactly what KF told us at the time. Said there would be no quick fix. Since that time, KF, Barnett, and o-lineman have all commented on not getting stronger overnight. And again, KF told us before Lester was even hired, that the offense would take a jump in '24 because he expected the o-line would be in a good place.
Scheme and motion do not help an o-lineman displace the guy lined head-up in front of him. Did you see that displacement in '22? No. Did you see it a couple years later? Yes. That's really all I needed to say, from the start.
There is truth to what you say. But it, at the same time, is a mischaracterization.
And that's my main point with all of this. The broken offense, and even the broken line that stalled the offense, and BF's and KF's role in that, have been widely and throughly mischaracterized.
That's amounted to mass negativity that was not justified. And that's part of my overarching point. Negativity in the community reached an all-time high during the last season ('23) of KF's most winningest stretch at Iowa. That is a fact. And is something that can never be justified by fans.
Fans could have done, and can do, better
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If you understand he is really a Husker fan then it all makes sense.
Congratulations on typing the dumbest football related "take" I can recollect. Nothing you have said before and certainly after this sentence will ever be taken seriously.
Yes. 14 TEs have been drafted during KFs tenure. Roughly 10% of the starting TEs in the NFL are Hawkeyes. There are 6 currently on a NFL roster at the moment.
Wtf are you even talking about?
There isn't even any arguing this.
Do you know what head-up alignment is? It's when a DL lines up directly in front of an OL. Middle of his hat aligned with the middle of his opponent's hat.
Iowa employing motion, or a particular blocking scheme isn't going to change the presnap reponsibility that DL.
So essentially that DL is a blocking sled. Go find a blocking sled on your local field. Fire out and give it a good drive.
Then, do the same thing, but have a guy run horizontally across the field behind you. See if that helps you drive the sled better.
Same thing regarding blocking scheme. Regardless of what scheme is used, it will require guys to be able to get knock-back in their 1 v 1 situations
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I don't know German, or whatever that is.
But I'm guessing the hall of fame would disagree
I honestly can't help myself sometimes. I have no idea where you come up with this dribble, but holy **** it is something. The second level defenders were the problem that set iowa back while running the outside zone. The outside zone forced lineman to hit their aiming point, when you have an LB with the ability to fill those gaps. The mid-zone does just the opposite, it allows a stretch aiming to widen the front by forcing horizontal displacement, allowing the RB to pick which lane to go vertical into.
With regards to pre snap motion, it is absolutely aiding in what the offense has put on the field. That pre snap motion changes the way coverages are set up, allows for mismatches generated by the offense, and generally adds another variable the defense has to account for.
I'll let you get in your diatribe about how the Oline is the reason, and I can agree that the line play has been better, but proof is in the statistical pudding. You don't go from 3.2 yards per to over 5 in two years without significant changes.
Yes, 2nd level defenders are going to be a problem when guys can't win their 1 v 1 situations. Nobody can get to the 2nd level when the first level isn't able to be won. This goes for any blocking scheme.
No matter where the collision points are happening, those collisions have to be won, or the defense will fill the lanes.
Whereas, when an o-line wins those collisions, and gets a good push, even an 8th defender in the box, will often get caught in the wash.
If you didn't see an o-line in '22 that wasn't strong enough at the first level, regardless of scheme, I don't know what to tell you.
I've never said that motion doesn't do any of those things. Only that it doesn't help a lineman be stronger at his point of attack. Meaning motion, is nowhere near primary in any of this.
Then you have the fact that due to conditions in '22/'23, the staff consciously CHOSE to pare things down, use less motion, and become MORE predictable, for the sake of an intentional brick-by-brick rebuild. It's just a further layer of mischaracterization, as the Iowa program today is still reaping the benefits of how the staff (including BF) went about the "rebuild".
Yeah, no **** there were significant changes. The OL got significantly stronger. They grew out of being being the worst O-line I've ever seen at Iowa.
I'm not even sure what your point is. Their is no denying the weight that was put on by those players. There is no denying the comments made by players and staff about, "not getting stronger overnight". Have you not seen those comments? And there was no denying the accuracy of the picture that KF painted for us the whole time. What are you even arguing?
Adding in not playing with an emergency QB also contributed to significant change.
And yes, change in scheme was also part of significant change.
But only one thing can be primary. And every scheme out there flows from, and is at the mercy of who can win the line of scrimmage.
I'm trying to clear up extensive mischaracterization. While you continue to add to it. Why?
Iowa employing motion, or a particular blocking scheme isn't going to change the presnap reponsibility that DL..
Not sure what your background is, but I don't believe you have played or coached football based on that portion of the statement. That is all.
Meaning that regardless, the first thing that defensive lineman is going to do once the ball is snapped, is try to win at his point of attack, at the LOS.
He is either going to try reestablish the LOS in the backfield, penetrate, or hold the LOS (usually in the case of head-up alignment).
Regardless of exact assignment, getting pushed back off the LOS is not an option for the defensive lineman.
Thus, when the ball is snapped, it will be a war for the first few inches, regardless of what blocking scheme or motion Iowa may or may not be employing.
I both, played and coached a little o-line
What does all this harping about harping on other posters have to do with any of these threads?