well in all fairness to Northeastern (and MIT but MIT is well....MIT), Harvard couldn't beat either school in the academic beanpots for over a decade so they pulled out. lol
always thought that was funny
OT: College enrollment and financial issues?
- Thread starter Leonard23
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always thought that was funny
We aren't talking about Mizzou for journalism though, or something else like that. I think it's a very small minority of kids that know what they want to do at 18 years old. Hell, I am not sure it's a majority at 28 and even 38 a good number don't.
It's more like, "On social media I see people partying at Southern schools" and the dressing up and pageantry. They are having a moment. Much like in my time it was Cult or UDel, saw it on MySpace. Now those places sunk in the ratings because people moved on. 10 years from now it will be something else. Knowing my fellow millennials though I don't see them paying 100k a year (by then) so Brayden and Isabella can sit by the pool at University of Tampa. If nothing is done about the cost of college, going to be a big moment for RU, better than we are having academically.
I know...it was meant as a joke because NIRH referenced USCe in his post but mentioned "amazing turf management" among the school's characteristics even though it doesn't offer that major. Of course, it's Clemson that does since it is the Ag/land grant school for the state of SC, not USCe.
How can I forget, I believe we had multiple posters whose NJ-based contacts signed up for career in turf. What 18 year old wouldn't feel passion for that?
Ironically I remember hearing Cult was a leader at turf management back in the day. NJ kids love them some rural American dirt. It isn't social media at all!
WSJ reports on emerging trend: Bergen County kid rejected by University of Florida rents apartment in Gainesville, takes UF online courses, pays fee to use student gym, sits in student section during football games. "I’m going to get almost the entire same experience, and the only thing I’m really missing is going into class."
Here is link to article. Might be behind paywall.
Here is link to article. Might be behind paywall.
I'd be interested to know where he got in through the regular admissions process. And is there a specific UF program motivating him. or is it his dream school because of climate, coeds and the Shop Rite prestige his parents think it gives them?
Shite I remember playing pick up games at werblin with a kid saw him at queens and Pete’s every Thursday. Lived a few houses down from us on senior st. Buddy asked him to be on his intramural team. He said he couldn’t. Was a student at Middlesex. Hoped to transfer in. But wanted to be with his buddies from Bergen County and lived with them to get the “college” experience. . Not much different I guess.
"Helman will share a Gainesville, Fla., apartment with three other PaCE [Pathway to Campus Enrollment] students who are moving from out-of-state. He chose the program over traditional acceptances, some with scholarships and honors, including at the University of South Carolina and University of Tennessee. 'This was his dream school, said his mother.'"
To be clear, I support multiple pathways to admission to flagship state schools. UC Berkeley and UCLA accept thousands of transfers from California junior colleges every year, and these are the top two ranked public universities in the country.
Played rugby with a guy who flunked out of Rutgers and stayed on team. He played the hooker position, maybe the worst position in any sport, so we kept him because he was good and nobody wanted that position.
He probably didn't get into RU then, but if this isn't the ShopRite phenomenon in a nutshell, I'm not sure what is.
I guess he just REALLY wanted to explore "Southern culture."
Seems like a smart program by University of Florida
1) Keep a decent applicant out of the admitted student stats
2) Collect out of state tuition from the kid's family
3) Give the kid hope he can become a real UF student one day by hitting high academic targets
4) Allow mom to flaunt UF apparel inside the ShopRite and UF sticker on car outside
Texas A&M and Illinois have a similar programs. Not sure if this type of program would work at Rutgers.
Not paying out of state tuition. Paying “lower” online rates. And because he has taken residence in Florida. If done correctly. When he transitions to full time student he will be paying in state tuition rates. Truly genius by kid and family.
Online is $34,400 for out of state students.
Last week, UF announced a $1.45 billion renovation of The Swamp. UF's debt will quadruple. $50 to $100 million of annual debt service expense incoming. Expect UF to find more creative ways to generate revenue from students and their families in order to fund the university's #1 priority, making the football stadium $1.45 billion nicer.
Online is $16580. Bottom line number is the number you posted. Includes numerous expenses that would not exist if the person was living at home or has other spots to reside. Not sure why they would include housing costs(14k) transportation and other miscellaneous expenses.
Kid lives in "private apartment right by campus" so housing cost is real.
Hopefully it all works out.
UF gets more out of state applications from NJ than NY, TX, or CA, and these states each have more than 2x the population as NJ.
University of Florida Office of Admissions
At the University of Florida, we are a people of purpose. We're committed to challenging convention and ourselves. We see things not as they are, but as they could be. We strive for a greater impact; one measured in people helped and lives improved.
admissions.ufl.edu
You do a good job of tracking down stats on things. My working theory is more high achieving NJ students leaving the state is correlated to its population density. Too many are “too close to home.” Very few moreso than Rutgers due to the layout of the state. If you look, it’s all northeast states that are at the top of that list.Kid lives in "private apartment right by campus" so housing cost is real.
Hopefully it all works out.
UF gets more out of state applications from NJ than NY, TX, or CA, and these states each have more than 2x the population as NJ.
University of Florida Office of Admissions
At the University of Florida, we are a people of purpose. We're committed to challenging convention and ourselves. We see things not as they are, but as they could be. We strive for a greater impact; one measured in people helped and lives improved.
Interestingly enough, we likely also benefit from the same with a high % of in state students. Conclusion- we should be able to pull more top students from neighboring states.
Agreed for him. But for the average person it’s not. And it’s “off campus” housing so not a fee or tuition received by UF. Never lived on campus at RU. Always live in an off campus apartment. So my tuition didn’t include my room and board.Kid lives in "private apartment right by campus" so housing cost is real.
Hopefully it all works out.
UF gets more out of state applications from NJ than NY, TX, or CA, and these states each have more than 2x the population as NJ.
University of Florida Office of Admissions
At the University of Florida, we are a people of purpose. We're committed to challenging convention and ourselves. We see things not as they are, but as they could be. We strive for a greater impact; one measured in people helped and lives improved.
Yea that figure doesn’t surprise me. N.J. and Long Island have always been the largest exporters of students.
I agree by being from a state with small area, NJ students wanting to go away to college need to look outside the state. Another reason schools are filled with NJ students is the state produces a huge number of students who are both qualified academically and from families who can afford the cost. That explains why UF gets 50x the applicants from NJ than WV.
Rutgers absolutely could do a better job attracting top out of state students, especially from New York State. Of the top 586 Long Island high school students the past 2 years, zero chose Rutgers. 6 chose Florida. 84 chose the top 3 SUNY schools. I can understand Florida being more attractive the Rutgers for all the obvious reasons but not Stony Brook, Binghamton, and Buffalo. Rutgers could get a bunch of these kids who choose SUNY schools by matching SUNY tuition. Big attraction of Stony Brook is the medical and STEM degrees and Rutgers offers all that plus a more interesting campus.
However, as you state, Rutgers would have to offer the same cost as they currently get from the SUNY schools.
Worth it for valedictorians and salutatorians from Long Island who have great test scores and will graduate in four years and will pay full SUNY tuition amount to Rutgers, a payment to Rutgers that is higher than a Rutgers in-state student pays on average after adjusting for financial aid given to in-state students.
Something very rarely mentioned in the media reports and on these boards is that NJ has a lot of well-educated and well-paid US transplants and foreign immigrants. From early childhood these people’s kids are exposed to the world and US outside of NJ. To expect that a high percentage of their kids will stay in NJ to attend college is unrealistic.
My wife and I grew up in very middle class towns. Our friends from our school and university days, who were raised in NJ, sent most of their kids to NJ colleges. We had good fortune in our careers and have been able to live in and raise our now-adult children in one of the affluent towns often mocked here as being too snobby to send our kids to RU. Where we live now is largely made up of professionals who moved here from other states or countries and most of our friends from here saw almost all of their kids go out of state. It’s not snobbery. It’s just that their kids have seen a lot of the world and want to continue to expand their horizons.
My wife and I grew up in very middle class towns. Our friends from our school and university days, who were raised in NJ, sent most of their kids to NJ colleges. We had good fortune in our careers and have been able to live in and raise our now-adult children in one of the affluent towns often mocked here as being too snobby to send our kids to RU. Where we live now is largely made up of professionals who moved here from other states or countries and most of our friends from here saw almost all of their kids go out of state. It’s not snobbery. It’s just that their kids have seen a lot of the world and want to continue to expand their horizons.
Top 2 states on % of residents foreign born are California and New Jersey. This explains the why flagship schools in these states are rocketing up the rankings. UCLA and UC Berkeley are now top 20 schools and Rutgers has launched into the top 50.
Immigration drives it all. College sports don't matter to families and students in California and New Jersey. People in LA, Bay Area, and NJ don't care about college sports. Their kids flourish academically and go to local flagships.
The opposite side of this situation is Mississippi and West Virginia. Super football traditions but nobody wants to move to the states. Ole Miss and WVU would be in a chart but can't because the flagships in those states can't make it into the rankings.
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early 90s Rutgers was in the 40s and was the countries best buy for 2 straight years. Rutgers College, the elite of the school, almost broke away as it had SAT avg than Princeton (or rather there was talk of it).
I don't think foreign born have anything to do with the rankings. you'll need to explain the rationale there
The rationale is obvious: High foreign born in state = flagship schools moving up the ranks. UCLA, UC Berkeley, Rutgers. See #464.
Please show the early 90s figures. Rutgers College equal to Princeton? "Talk of it."
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there is no correlation, you need to validate that data point. There is no data set that will say foreign born leads to higher scores or rankings in fact, it's quite the opposite and for obvious reasons.
you can do the research, it's easily found
I post data all the time, nothing I post is not factual
People in LA don't care about UCLA and USC football and basketball? I'd like to see your evidence on that. Bay Area college sports is a different story.
Here are ticket sales numbers for the California flagships compared to the public schools in their conferences.
At or near bottom, except for UCLA basketball, despite the size of the LA and Bay Area markets being multiples larger than most other schools. USC figures aren't available but I'd put football above average and basketball below average.
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I would say it's the opposite. Immigrants and transplants don't grow up as self haters and don't automatically hate anything NJ, and are wiser with their money.
A transplant, unless they're from South Carolina, isn't going to be wowed by a Clemson degree. Nor is someone from the most affluent towns in NJ. It's not turning heads in Rumson or Alpine.
And, let's not fool ourselves again by believing a kid that summered in Paris is longing to spend time in rural Missouri.
OK well I think it is safe to say there is no other country in the world where someone is going to look at the offerings at RU versus a Clemson or Missouri or Univ of Tampa on paper and say, "well, I mean Brayden will get a better education for less money at RU, BUT he won't get Southern culture and campus beauty!" That is as inexplicably upper middle class American as it gets, and it doesn't exist in the rest of the world, and I would say it doesn't exist in a lot of other states even.
Going to a HS where a lot of kids were first generation Americans or immigrants, any of my friends with that background were told "RU, TCNJ or Ivy" and my friends at RU with that background, same. Cut across income too, some were from wealthy families and some not.
Most of my friends from abroad also generally went to their local college or their ivy equivalent. Only Canada has a system like ours, and even there, you probably have a better cultural argument with Quebec for example but you're not going there from Ontario unless you're going to McGill. Europe has Erasmus, but it's different as maybe you're paying some fees. My friend's cousin goes to a college in Rotterdam and he's from Poland, and I'm sure this board being what it is will tell me that's analogous to going to South Carolina from NJ.
Historically some of the most popular colleges for NJ kids were U Del, Drexel or NYU. I live in NJ and can get to NYU faster than RU. And no one is going to say with a straight face those places will have meaningful cultural differences.
The Southern thing is a totally new phenomenon correlated to internet culture. Again, otherwise, you'd see a lot more NJ kids at elite Southern institutions, or colleges in other regions, maybe even other countries. But we don't. It's definitely an opportunity for say, University of Hawaii though. As a millennial if you told someone at my upper middle class snob HS that you wanted to go to USCe or Clemson or Missouri they'd have laughed. UF though would have been OK, low tuition with grandma and grandpa.
I wonder, with more Americans now getting foreign passports are we going to see Clemson hemorrhaging NJ kids to Europe and Canada? After all it's about the culture and distance...
many many many fine schools abroad, just a different experience. My son may do a year abroad at Oxford although I'm admittedly ok with a semester, not a full year as the program dictates. The experience would be incredible for him so mulling it over in my head. Having a mother from Europe and having worked across FBOs and traveled extensively, I laugh at anyone thinking the quality of education at many Euro colleges is akin to Carls Jr.
we are aligned
My post was more to the comment that foreign born raise the school in rankings which is simply not the case. If we took all the kids from Bocconi, the LSE, TUM, or Sorbonne and dropped them into Rutgers then I could see the assertion but the numbers simply would not support the assertion given the admissions mandates. that was my point and I should have been more clear
I'm with you on the southern school thing. From a wall st perspective, I could understand elite, top southern schools or program dependent but going to Carls Jr, Clemson, TN and then thinking you're getting a good job on wall street without significant help is laughable. The amount of money people pay for the education received is nuts provided you don't have 'fu money' which very few on this board have. I make very good money, very fortunate in life and if my younger goes to Miami, spending 100k a year is not a easy pill to swallow for instance. I think parents are too accommodating towards children's' whims and wants to be frank. But, not my horse and not my rodeo as they say
the main issue is that Rutgers doesn't market itself well enough to be a destination school in state. When I was there, the most t-shirt was '2nd choice' one year when some enterprising kid sold a ton of them. I'd also say half the kids I knew were from Bergen Ctny ironically enough. Then again, I think a full year tuition was 4500 and every single wall st firm recruited from RC.
So why do you think NJ people are statistically so much more likely to send their kids out of state?
I may be misreading your posts, but you seem to be looking down your nose at Clemson and Missouri. I may have mentioned above (I have CRS disease, so I don't remember) that picking a college can be very major specific for some kids. That's what our son did. Wound up at a small, expensive private college that has an excellent reputation and placement for his major. As for Clemson and Engineering, and I am loathe to use USNWR but here goes. I am quite familiar with Clemson, and Clemson has some outstanding engineering programs:
Here are U.S. News 2026:
- Industrial/Manufacturing Engineering
- Clemson: #12 clemson.edu
- Rutgers: #26 Rutgers University
- Civil Engineering
- Clemson: #21 clemson.edu
- Rutgers: #45 Rutgers University
- Mechanical Engineering
- Clemson: #33 clemson.edu
- Rutgers: #46 Rutgers University
But you’ll begrudgingly pay the money to send them to Miami, right? Do you shop at ShopRite?
There's really two main things at play here:
1. A lot of NJ kids think they're too good for Rutgers for various reasons, when in reality, the school is tremendous academically. Others just don't want to go there b/c of the campus layout, lack of sports success, not liking downtown Easton Ave, etc.
2. Conversely, a lot of kids want to go to school down south for a myriad of reasons (SEC culture, women, better weather, fanatical sports, parents drilling into their kids heads that the North sucks, etc.)
We've already told our daughter we're moving south the day she graduates HS - now, if she gets into Princeton (which is extremely unlikely to happen), or if my wife's parents get sick (they're older, so who knows what will happen), then that plan will be delayed
WTBS, she can go wherever she wants, as long as the price tag warrants the cost (e.g., Princeton for 80k yes, Syracuse for 80k year no). I do understand the shop rite thing as a lot of parents like to brag on their kids.
Not that we're better than anyone (bc were not), but I don't give a damn where other kids are going, or what other people think of my kid, as they're not paying our bills or dictating our future in any way, shape or form
It's society today putting it in these kids heads (and parents alike) that they have to do this or that to impress people. Truly weird stuff IMO
1. A lot of NJ kids think they're too good for Rutgers for various reasons, when in reality, the school is tremendous academically. Others just don't want to go there b/c of the campus layout, lack of sports success, not liking downtown Easton Ave, etc.
2. Conversely, a lot of kids want to go to school down south for a myriad of reasons (SEC culture, women, better weather, fanatical sports, parents drilling into their kids heads that the North sucks, etc.)
We've already told our daughter we're moving south the day she graduates HS - now, if she gets into Princeton (which is extremely unlikely to happen), or if my wife's parents get sick (they're older, so who knows what will happen), then that plan will be delayed
WTBS, she can go wherever she wants, as long as the price tag warrants the cost (e.g., Princeton for 80k yes, Syracuse for 80k year no). I do understand the shop rite thing as a lot of parents like to brag on their kids.
Not that we're better than anyone (bc were not), but I don't give a damn where other kids are going, or what other people think of my kid, as they're not paying our bills or dictating our future in any way, shape or form
It's society today putting it in these kids heads (and parents alike) that they have to do this or that to impress people. Truly weird stuff IMO
Yeah. First gen immigrants understand the value of RU and don't have the pervasive self-loathing that many NJ residents have.