Trump Just Surrendered to Iran--Pathetic

[baltimorened]

I guess I am saying I am not sure what objective we have been trying to achieve that will be achieved by any scenario that leaves Iran their largest piece of leverage in any negotiation.

What objectives does it appear we have successfully completed? At a macro level, not a "we wanted to blow up x, y, and z and we did".

I think we're getting hung up on the word "objective". You seem to be saying that seizing control of the strait is something that we should have done..it should have been an objective..in the same manner that people ask what was the objective of this invasion of Iran...seize the uranium, regime change, control the strait...we should have known that up front...Ok I can't argue with that thinking. Those are political objectives.

I'm looking at objective in the military sense.....there are many many objectives in a military conflict. and these are generated in order to achieve the political ones....but one step at a time...The military will have an overall strategy with priorities...take out the air defense radar..take out the air defenses..take out the command structure, take out communications, take out the ability to reinforce munitions..etc etc...then take control of the strait..

I suggested you read the 5 paragraph operational order...you'd get one every day/mission. The Objective today might be the command and control...and the end of the day after the BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment) the objective in tomorrow's mission might be go back and reattach to completely destroy the C&C....things go in some sequence.

That doesn't mean that there is no plan to take control of the strait...but first things first. We have to take out as much of the defenses first., I listed some of those in an earlier post....and that would have been listed in a operations order...,. And, IMO, that overall military plan was put on hold before the tack the strait mission by the ceasefire.

Does this help?

 

[St. Louis Hawk]

What a world class debacle by Trump.

 

[nytigerfan]

But when Biden did it, you guys fought the criticism with "it's their money"....have your concepts changed??? And from what I understand, and I don't know any more than you, just repeating speculation, Iran only gets access to those funds IF it meets it's requirements - which none of us know

It's fascinating how we go through this back and forth when none of us knows what's in the MOU....but we're certain of our positions...

Doesn't it seem odd to you that we dont know what is in the MOU? Shouldn't that be shared with us? Shouldn't our elected officials in Congress insist?

You are correct that we dont know what is in it, other than what JD Vance is telling us. I feel like the admin is trying to ride out this news cycle and then hopes everyone has moved on when they finally share the details with us.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

You mean I'm explaining it without the CNN spin.

Ok so let me get this straight only using the right wing talking points:

• We went to war because Iran was about to get a nuke (also to do regime change, destroy their military, etc) but mostly the nukes
• Most of us said the uranium was not accessible and we could deter them from getting it by just bombing those sites anytime they pull up with backhoes
• We spent many billions of dollars and cause untold economic cost to the global economy to stop them from getting a nuke
• And now you are here telling us the Uranium was actually inaccessible? The exact same thing we told you since the start of the war? Seriously? Of all the dumb MAGA talking points that might be the dumbest.

 

[RollingballofButcherKnives]

Show where we're sending them cash? I'll be waiting... You've obviously been part of the negotiations. Enlighten us.

No

 

[Hotshoe]

Just because I school you in these debates doesn't mean I'm old. I'm just smarter.

I'm probably half your age.

It's me. I'm 90. Still waiting on my first grandchild after my last finishes up his masters in Finance. I hope I can hold on. We shall see. Meanwhile, the waters are amazing back home for trout, and the corn is out of this world this season.

 

[Hotshoe]

So we're facilitating giving Iran $300 billion?

Yesterday, you and your ilk specifically stated, America is giving $300 billion to Iran. Like your 10 point plan bullsh-t, you are wrong. Just own it. We ain't paying sh&t. No matter how much you want to protect your lies, it's not happening.

 

[GDead_Tiger]

Yesterday, you and your ilk specifically stated, America is giving $300 billion to Iran. Like your 10 point plan bullsh-t, you are wrong. Just own it. We ain't paying sh&t. No matter how much you want to protect your lies, it's not happening.

Are we or are we not helping Iran get $300 billion they wouldn't have gotten otherwise?

 

[Torbee]

The MOU has been released, dumbass.

8. US pledges to make frozen Iranian assets available for use with implementation of MoU

For his sake, I hope hotshoe really is 90 so he dies before he sees everything Trump f.ucked up and ruined reversed once adults are back in charge.

 

[GDead_Tiger]

I think we're getting hung up on the word "objective". You seem to be saying that seizing control of the strait is something that we should have done..it should have been an objective..in the same manner that people ask what was the objective of this invasion of Iran...seize the uranium, regime change, control the strait...we should have known that up front...Ok I can't argue with that thinking. Those are political objectives.

I'm looking at objective in the military sense.....there are many many objectives in a military conflict. and these are generated in order to achieve the political ones....but one step at a time...The military will have an overall strategy with priorities...take out the air defense radar..take out the air defenses..take out the command structure, take out communications, take out the ability to reinforce munitions..etc etc...then take control of the strait..

I suggested you read the 5 paragraph operational order...you'd get one every day/mission. The Objective today might be the command and control...and the end of the day after the BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment) the objective in tomorrow's mission might be go back and reattach to completely destroy the C&C....things go in some sequence.

That doesn't mean that there is no plan to take control of the strait...but first things first. We have to take out as much of the defenses first., I listed some of those in an earlier post....and that would have been listed in a operations order...,. And, IMO, that overall military plan was put on hold before the tack the strait mission by the ceasefire.

Does this help?

Taking control of the strait is essentially the first priority in all of the war plans drawn up by guys like Mattis. When you lose control of it you see what happens.

 

[RockyMtNole]

For his sake, I hope hotshoe really is 90 so he dies before he sees everything Trump f.ucked up and ruined reversed once adults are back in charge.

He’s not 90
No way someone is such a prick at that age. Someone would’ve taken him out long ago. Act a lot like hawkedoff

 

[Hotshoe]

I think the drone concept has changed that dynamic...this is the first conflict where I've seen the Pentagon equate cost with battle.

Not remotely close. It started with Vietnam and Robert McNamara.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Who is this source? Name them. Yesterday, y'all just new every detail of the agreement, even though nothing has been released. Y'all, 100% knew, Trump had already agreed to Iran's 10 point plan. Every lib on here was wrong. Not one of you have an ounce of honesty.

Next, yesterday, y'all specifically stated, we were paying $300 billion to Iran. Lmao at how many of you can't get past your Trump hate and think straight. That money would come from Arab states, not America. But, y'all just knew. Blue sky is not your friend.

Pot.

 

[Hotshoe]

So is JD Vance lying?

Lying how? Name it. Iran gets nothing unless they capitulates. Period. End of story. You have absolutely no real facts against this.

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

The Iranians will be rich, if they comply with Trump's orders of giving up their nuclear program, allow for inspections, opening the strait, etc.

So, in other words, all the things they were doing before Trump pulled out of the JCPOA and started a war of choice? Brilliant!

 

[Torbee]

He’s not 90
No way someone is such a prick at that age. Someone would’ve taken him out long ago. Act a lot like hawkedoff

Well good. I hope he enjoys watching everything Trump tried to do be unwound and relegated to the trash bin of history.

 

[baltimorened]

Doesn't it seem odd to you that we dont know what is in the MOU? Shouldn't that be shared with us? Shouldn't our elected officials in Congress insist?

You are correct that we dont know what is in it, other than what JD Vance is telling us. I feel like the admin is trying to ride out this news cycle and then hopes everyone has moved on when they finally share the details with us.

It does seem very odd. They're gaming the system somehow...I would have thought that they're using this time to brief "friends" on the hill to line up support for when the details are announced, but that doesn't seem to be happening. They're doing something in the background, but I don't know what it is, and it appears neither does anyone else.

They can wait out the news cycle, but this isn't going away...it's too important. And if it's a bad deal for the US, it will last through the election

I know you are aware, but when there's a void in information, people will fill the void with what info they want, even if it's not right.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Show a legitimate source where America is giving $300 billion to Iran. We are not. You libs are absolutely clueless, and y'all hate MTG. LMAO.

Vance has already said Iran would get money. Unclear how much. Not directly from us, of course, since that would look bad; but do you really think Iran cares if it comes through an intermediary?

I've already said I don't expect us to pay reparations. We should, of course, since we were the aggressor. But I don't expect it to happen.

I do imagine Iran will get some sequestered funds released eventually, but everybody is citing the lower $24 billion number for that.

 

[GDead_Tiger]

Lying how? Name it. Iran gets nothing unless they capitulates. Period. End of story. You have absolutely no real facts against this.

Why do you think that?

 

[Hotshoe]

Every foreign policy or ex military person that I’ve heard/read has stated pretty clearly that the military understood the costs to control the straight.

The problem is clearly that DJT doesn’t understand foreign policy and multinational conflicts.

This is a total shitshow from the T administration

It's rather clear, not a single leftist on here has a fking clue. Iran gets nothing unless they capitulate, and joins the world. You are beyond clueless. Tell me again, where is America sending $300 billion. Show it, or F off.

 

[Hotshoe]

But we didn't take out their nukes and Trump just told the G7 that taking their HEU isn't important

This is nothing but a lie. Iran has literally, no nuclear capability to build a bomb. Show what remains with real facts. Can't wait for your Aaron Rupar post. Lmao.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I think we're getting hung up on the word "objective". You seem to be saying that seizing control of the strait is something that we should have done..it should have been an objective..in the same manner that people ask what was the objective of this invasion of Iran...seize the uranium, regime change, control the strait...we should have known that up front...Ok I can't argue with that thinking. Those are political objectives.

I'm looking at objective in the military sense.....there are many many objectives in a military conflict. and these are generated in order to achieve the political ones....but one step at a time...The military will have an overall strategy with priorities...take out the air defense radar..take out the air defenses..take out the command structure, take out communications, take out the ability to reinforce munitions..etc etc...then take control of the strait..

I suggested you read the 5 paragraph operational order...you'd get one every day/mission. The Objective today might be the command and control...and the end of the day after the BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment) the objective in tomorrow's mission might be go back and reattach to completely destroy the C&C....things go in some sequence.

That doesn't mean that there is no plan to take control of the strait...but first things first. We have to take out as much of the defenses first., I listed some of those in an earlier post....and that would have been listed in a operations order...,. And, IMO, that overall military plan was put on hold before the tack the strait mission by the ceasefire.

Does this help?

"Those are political objectives.

I'm looking at objective in the military sense.."

This is exactly what I've been saying the entire time. You were arguing different things. They were saying the political objectives were dumb if you weren't going to take into account keeping the strait open. You were saying we've achieved every military objective we have tried to complete.

 

[Hotshoe]

Where is all that Venezuelan oil money stored?

It is absolutely amazing how ignorant libs like you are. They are currently being protected by the United States of America in the PDVSA, so other nations cannot take their funds. Venezuela is currently using these funds for the benefit of their own country. We are literally helping Venezuela. All you libs needs to keep posting and showing your ignorance and lack of knowledge on any subject. Now, go look it it puppy. Venezuela is at all time highs selling their oil at 1.2 million barrels a day. The money is literally being shielded by America against foreign nations.

 

[CRazzle]

 

[Hotshoe]

So we are to believe that Gulf states are going to pay out $300 billion to allow Iran to start shipping and selling their own oil internationally and thus most likely lowering the profits of their own countries?

Paying $300 bil to lose money is how casinos go bankrupt.

If you actually had a brain, you'd understand. Obviously, you do not. You just believe lies.

 

[BlIIlken2]

 

[Hotshoe]

So.....
1) oh no!
2) When will the roasting begin?
3) At this point Iran is a more reliable source than Vance/Trump. That isn't based on personal bias, that is based on the lie counters.

Post your facts. Just one. You can't. You're a joke.

 

[Hotshoe]

You just told us they are buried and Iran can’t use them? And if the latter is true, we won’t give them any access to funds at all in the future agreement, yes?

So you really not have the capability to look at the bigger picture? Trump never wanted to destroy Iran and their people. What do you not get? Their military is wiped out. They have nothing left but drones and 14% of their missiles. He never onve, not once, ever mentioned regime change was his goal. He specifically stated, he hoped for the people to rise up. That's it. Iran has no nuclear capability left. Get real. Where is it, and show just one legitimate source. Just one.

 

[Hotshoe]

In the ground.

More lies from an ignorant fool. Venezuela is getting their money, and it's being protected by the United States. Talk more to show your ignorance.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

So you really not have the capability to look at the bigger picture? Trump never wanted to destroy Iran and their people. What do you not get? Their military is wiped out. They have nothing left but drones and 14% of their missiles. He never onve, not once, ever mentioned regime change was his goal. He specifically stated, he hoped for the people to rise up. That's it. Iran has no nuclear capability left. Get real. Where is it, and show just one legitimate source. Just one.

I really not have I guess.

What were the objectives in this conflict? According to hotshoe.

 

[Hotshoe]

Silly me, I thought it was in a bank in the Middle East...

It is, in Qutar, protected by the United States of America against foreign nations. How do you not know this? Venezuela is pumping out over a million barrels a day and getting paid because we are protecting their funds.

 

[Hotshoe]

View attachment 1328913

Show where America is paying this. Not your bs meme. Show it.

 

[Hotshoe]

Obama released a total of $1.7 billion in frozen Iranian funds to the Iranians. You refer to that as a "ton of cash."
Trump is releasing either $24 or $25 billion in frozen Iranian funds to the Iranians. What term would you use to describe THAT?

Really? Based on what? When is that happening and who told you that? You've obviously been in the negotiations. Clown show. Just like yesterday. You know nothing.

 

[Hotshoe]

Our own intelligence agencies said that Iran was not a nuclear threat to the US. Didn't Fox or Newsmax or OAN or Breitbart tell you that?

And our intelligence agencies have always been correct. Lmao. 60% enriched uranium is high enough to build a nuclear weapon. Study up. HEU is above 20%.

 

[Hotshoe]

Enraged? Melting down?

We’re laughing at you clowns. We called this a clisterf*ck from day one. It might be even worse than we thought.

You actually believe, any one of you has a clue, or that anyone cares about your unfounded lies. Yesterday, y'all just knew, we were paying $300 billion to Iran from America. Just stop. You haven't a clue, nor does a single lib on here. Not one of you has an ounce of honesty, or own your ********.

 

[prlyles]

To clean up Obama's mess.

We are eliminating Iran's nukes. While we are there, we are eliminating their ability to fund terrorism.

What are these "nukes" you're talkin about?

 

[RockyMtNole]

You actually believe, any one of you has a clue, or that anyone cares about your unfounded lies. Yesterday, y'all just knew, we were paying $300 billion to Iran from America. Just stop. You haven't a clue, nor does a single lib on here. Not one of you has an ounce of honesty, or own your ********.

Everybody’s wrong except you? Nobody knows anything except you? You’re in denial and so far in the cult you can’t begin to see the exit.

Gtfo

 

[nytigerfan]

Really? Based on what? When is that happening and who told you that? You've obviously been in the negotiations. Clown show. Just like yesterday. You know nothing.

You are in more dire need of a blowjob than any other man on earth. Call your boy @Allornothing , he can help you out.

 

[Hotshoe]

You're a f.ucking moron if you believe they will give a single red cent to their biggest regional foe.

It absolutely is coming from the U.S.

You cultist moron.

Lmao. You have no source, no proof, but you know. You're the moron.

 

[THE_DEVIL]