Joe hall vs Mark Pope...1st 2 years

[UKJenning]

Most coaches gain in stature with time. Rick was public enemy #1 when he flipped off BBN, now he is revered as perfect. Cal had folks leaving for sale signs on his lawn, now people are crying for him to come back.

Pope’s doesn’t have a lot of time as he is approaching retirement age.

 

[BigBluefoot]

I think Joe coached at Regis for 5 years and Central Missouri State for one year before UK.

Really? I did not know that. He was an assistant at Kentucky for so long, I just assumed he had never been a head coach.

 

[berniecarbo]

Really? I did not know that. He was an assistant at Kentucky for so long, I just assumed he had never been a head coach.

I think his head coaching was prior to becoming a "coach in waiting" at UK. From memory, I think talk was he might leave UK because he was tired of waiting on Rupp to retire.

 

[mjj_2K]

I think his head coaching was prior to becoming a "coach in waiting" at UK. From memory, I think talk was he might leave UK because he was tired of waiting on Rupp to retire.

Rupp felt like Hall pushed him out, and had some bitterness about it. And Hall might have to some extent, but it was probably necessary. Rupp was not a "young" 70 (I'm not old enough for direct memories, but all you have to do is look at a picture), and a lot of people feel Hall was the guy most responsible for the 68-72 teams that sent Rupp out on a relatively high note after what had been, other than Rupp's Runts, a very patchy run in the 60's.

 

[kyjeff1]

It's child play but our last two coaches have struggled mightily with it.

Calipari was a different animal. He had different priorities. Pope wants to win as bad as anyone.

It's easy for me or you. Might not be easy for Pope.

If he wants to win, he needs to do the right thing. It’s his career at stake, not mine.

That will definitely help.

no doubt

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Rupp felt like Hall pushed him out, and had some bitterness about it. And Hall might have to some extent, but it was probably necessary. Rupp was not a "young" 70 (I'm not old enough for direct memories, but all you have to do is look at a picture), and a lot of people feel Hall was the guy most responsible for the 68-72 teams that sent Rupp out on a relatively high note after what had been, other than Rupp's Runts, a very patchy run in the 60's.

Rupp went 197-69 74.1% during the 60's making the Elite Eight four times with a title game appearance in '66. Down from his historically great previous standard but not bad by any means.
Rupp went 69-15 82.1% over his final three seasons. Hall went 59-26 69.4% over his first 3 seasons.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

Really? I did not know that. He was an assistant at Kentucky for so long, I just assumed he had never been a head coach.

Joe B went 57-50 53.3% in five seasons at Regis and 19-6 78% in one season at Central Missouri State before becoming Rupp's assistant from '66-'72.

 

[mjj_2K]

Rupp went 197-69 74.1% during the 60's making the Elite Eight four times with a title game appearance in '66. Down from his historically great previous standard but not bad by any means.
Rupp went 69-15 82.1% over his final three seasons. Hall went 59-26 69.4% over his first 3 seasons.

I said sketchy. UK's records from 60-67: 18-7, 19-9, 23-3, 16-9, 21-6, 15-10, 26-2, 13-13.

And the NCAA Tournament record was 5-5. 3 of those wins in one season.

The next 5 years, UK went 22-5, 23-5, 26-2, 22-6, and 21-7.

 

[berniecarbo]

Rupp felt like Hall pushed him out, and had some bitterness about it. And Hall might have to some extent, but it was probably necessary. Rupp was not a "young" 70 (I'm not old enough for direct memories, but all you have to do is look at a picture), and a lot of people feel Hall was the guy most responsible for the 68-72 teams that sent Rupp out on a relatively high note after what had been, other than Rupp's Runts, a very patchy run in the 60's.

I think there was bitterness by Rupp. I recall stories that he had agreed to coach Duke after UK forced him to retire, but perhaps over health issues did not follow through. I also think Joe had threatened to go elsewhere. I was a big Rupp fan and really enjoyed his post game radio shows, but do feel he was declining as a coach.

 

[paulcalhoun_rivals397471]

I think there was bitterness by Rupp. I recall stories that he had agreed to coach Duke after UK forced him to retire, but perhaps over health issues did not follow through. I also think Joe had threatened to go elsewhere. I was a big Rupp fan and really enjoyed his post game radio shows, but do feel he was declining as a coach.

Rupp was definitely bitter about being forced to retire. His health was definitely declining but 5 straight SEC championships and an overall 114-25 82% record in this those last 5 seasons to end his career are not really indicative of much decline as a coach.

 

[UKCowboys]

I said sketchy. UK's records from 60-67: 18-7, 19-9, 23-3, 16-9, 21-6, 15-10, 26-2, 13-13.

And the NCAA Tournament record was 5-5. 3 of those wins in one season.

The next 5 years, UK went 22-5, 23-5, 26-2, 22-6, and 21-7.

To me, the whole Pope vs Hall thing is irrelevant, as is Pope vs any other coach in UK history when it comes to recruiting and record because the game has completely changed. Its not even the same game as the 70s and its a different game than when Cal was here because of NIL. Pope had a good first season and second subpar season. I know there are folks on here that think he needs a Championship or FF or SEC Title just to keep his job, but in the real world, there is a zero percent chance UK fires him if he makes the EE or even the S16, and there is no way he goes if he has a top 4 finish in the SEC.

 

[Randy Bob]

I am old enough to remember J Hall, he was a great recruiter he had Hamiton as his assistant maybe the best recruiter of all time, but saying that Joe B was not that great of coach.

 

[mjj_2K]

To me, the whole Pope vs Hall thing is irrelevant, as is Pope vs any other coach in UK history when it comes to recruiting and record because the game has completely changed. Its not even the same game as the 70s and its a different game than when Cal was here because of NIL. Pope had a good first season and second subpar season. I know there are folks on here that think he needs a Championship or FF or SEC Title just to keep his job, but in the real world, there is a zero percent chance UK fires him if he makes the EE or even the S16, and there is no way he goes if he has a top 4 finish in the SEC.

I agree, mostly. The most relevant thing is that Pope has to show some ability to have a high-level team.

Pope is not an absolutely terrible coach. Had he not come to UK, he'd probably still be at BYU and probably still be doing OK. That means being an accomplished coach in a major conference, which isn't nothing. But that's not enough at an historically elite program. Rise to UK's level, don't bring UK down to BYU's level.

 

[HeismanWinner]

I think there was bitterness by Rupp. I recall stories that he had agreed to coach Duke after UK forced him to retire, but perhaps over health issues did not follow through. I also think Joe had threatened to go elsewhere. I was a big Rupp fan and really enjoyed his post game radio shows, but do feel he was declining as a coach.

It wasn't health issues. His farm manager quit and Rupp couldn't go. But the plan was to coach Duke and have his son as 'coach in waiting.'

 

[DudahUK]

Ahhhhh yes. I remember.

Joe B. was hated and the boobirds were out in full force back in the day.

While it may be fair to say it's comparing apples to oranges, different eras, situations, etc. maybe we can at least say " there are some parallels" ... just trying to see it from both sides.

Personally, Pope is no Joe B. Hall, and I don't mean it as a slight to Pope.

I am hopeful guys like Williams, Crawford, etc, can become key assistants that helps Pope thru this time frame, and can get him some immediate success. Perhaps then we can make a more accurate comparison if you wanna stick with that.

It may be harsh to look back over the past 2 seasons in its' entirety and hate on Pope for them. He was thrust into an unimaginable situation, and that situation and everything that arose from Cal leaving and our illustrious A.D. hiring Pope in the aftermath ...

well..

I'm just saying I put everything to blame squarely there, on Barney.

We never should have been in this situation ( and still shouldn't) because of his ... well... characterize it how you will. I know how I do. I am gonna be so glad when Barney is outta' here.

Then maybe we can accurately understand what and where we need to go and what to do, and giving Pope his third year should be telling. He has to earn a fourth year now, win big now. He has to show he can earn it and come thru in the clutch on the job.

Then *maybe* you can start comparing him to Hall, even over just the first 2 seasons...

That was before my time. What was the mood like when we hired him?

 

[Runt#1969]

That was before my time. What was the mood like when we hired him?

I might've been really young, but even I remember the skepticism and pressure Coach Hall was under. Can you imagine ? Having to take over immediately after Rupp, with all that pressure to win ? It was palpable and heavy pressure to succeed. There were doubts, but Joe B. proved himself. I hope Pope can do the same.

 

[DudahUK]

I might've been really young, but even I remember the skepticism and pressure Coach Hall was under. Can you imagine ? Having to take over immediately after Rupp, with all that pressure to win ? It was palpable and heavy pressure to succeed. There were doubts, but Joe B. proved himself. I hope Pope can do the same.

Oh no I can’t at all. I know I’ve read he had a lot of pressure from fans. I would compare it maybe to something like the tubby situation. I hope we win it all every damn year. I’d love for Pope to turn into a stud coach, he would never leave here ya know? Fingers crossed.

 

[Im The Village Idiot]

Oh no I can’t at all. I know I’ve read he had a lot of pressure from fans. I would compare it maybe to something like the tubby situation. I hope we win it all every damn year. I’d love for Pope to turn into a stud coach, he would never leave here ya know? Fingers crossed.

I agree with this.

We never know what happens nine months from now.

But until then, I’ll be supporting Pope 100% and hoping he is the dude. Him being great would be best case scenario for UK.