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Joe hall vs Mark Pope...1st 2 years

Grevey1975

Grevey1975

Freshman
Mar 23, 2026
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I admit I've been a Pope basher and didn't like the hire to begin with BUT that being said, for those of you that remember Joe Hall's first 2 years here...First year after taking over for a legend, got to the elite Eight before losing to Indiana. Next year went 13-13 and I can remember back then, alot of talk about if he was the right guy to lead this program and the very next year,took them to the final four and the rest is history.Overall record for the first 2 years 33-21...Pope first 2 years 46-26...I'm not saying that Pope will get to a final four, just comparing the first couple of years...And I know that this is a different time and era of college basketball but hopefully Popes year 3 can produce the magic Joe Hall did in his 3rd year......
 
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Grevey1975

Grevey1975

Freshman
Mar 23, 2026
37
87
13
BlueBomb said:
Hall had one of the best assistant coaches/recruiters in the country at the time -- Leonard Hamilton -- which was a significant part of his success.

I'm not trying to make any comparison with Pope. Just sharing a tidbit that us old timers will recall fondly.
Click to expand...
Yes he was.... maybe Jamal Crawford (if he comes) could be that guy for Pope
 
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PastorofMuppets82

PastorofMuppets82

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Not my intention to compare Pope to Hall directly, but let's not act like Hall came into an empty cupboard like Pope did. Hall kind of got the left overs from a good UK team (ala Tubby, and Hubert Davis his first year at UNC).

Hall had been an assistant on staff at UK for what, 7 years at the time he took over as head coach? His first team which went to the Elite 8 returned quite a few players, specifically Jim Andrews. Completely different eras, conference strengths, NIL vs no NIL, etc. Just too many differences to make even an attempt at a fair comparison. But it wasn't like Hall was starting from scratch or coming from a mid major to take over fresh.

Players and their stats from the 71-72 team who returned for Hall's first season.
Jim Andrews 1971-72 6'11" JR Center (21.5 pts, 11.3 Reb, 2.5 Ast)
Larry Stamper 1971-1972 6'6" JR Forward (10.3 PTs, 10.2 Reb, 1.4 Ast)
Ray Edelman 1971-1972 6'2" SO Guard (0.8 pts, 0.4 Reb, 03. Ast)
Greg Smith 1971-1972 6'3" JR Guard (1.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.5 Ast)
Ronnie Lyons 1971-1972 5'10" SO Guard (13.2 Pts, 2.1 pts, 2.5 Ast)

Players who were on UK's roster when Pope was hired.
Travis Perry...
 
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mjj_2K

All-American
Jul 11, 2010
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Then Hall signed one of the best recruiting classes in school history and proceeded to lead the team to the NCAA final, including handing IU the only loss they would suffer in 74-75 and 75-76.

I'm not old enough for first-hand memories, but I suspect that Hall would have been under serious pressure if 74-75 hadn't been such a success. Pope is in a similar situation, but probably worse since the great "recruiting" class was supposed to be last year. And was a big swing and a miss. If that happens again this year, he's highly unlikely to get another swing. He might not have to make a title game, but he also can't have a team where that's completely unthinkable. Especially not one where that's the obvious case by the end of November, like last year.
 
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FLBBNFAN

FLBBNFAN

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Mar 25, 2025
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BlueBomb said:
Hall had one of the best assistant coaches/recruiters in the country at the time -- Leonard Hamilton -- which was a significant part of his success.

I'm not trying to make any comparison with Pope. Just sharing a tidbit that us old timers will recall fondly.
Click to expand...
Whoever decided Bird was to slow to play here should of been read the riot act.
 
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UKBB4Ever

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Grevey1975 said:
I admit I've been a Pope basher and didn't like the hire to begin with BUT that being said, for those of you that remember Joe Hall's first 2 years here...First year after taking over for a legend, got to the elite Eight before losing to Indiana. Next year went 13-13 and I can remember back then, alot of talk about if he was the right guy to lead this program and the very next year,took them to the final four and the rest is history.Overall record for the first 2 years 33-21...Pope first 2 years 46-26...I'm not saying that Pope will get to a final four, just comparing the first couple of years...And I know that this is a different time and era of college basketball but hopefully Popes year 3 can produce the magic Joe Hall did in his 3rd year......
Click to expand...
You never saw a Joe B team not play hard. You never saw a Joe B team quit.
 
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mjj_2K

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jedwar said:
100% this. Different eras.
Click to expand...
A big part of which is the NCAA Tournament.

In 1973, UK entered the NCAA Tournament in the Sweet 16. Where they played Austin Peay (which actually was a top 20 team).

The tournament structure from the mid 50's until 1975 was weird, with a lot of elements that seem arbitrary. The Mideast Region always featured the Big 10 champ and the SEC champ, who both sat waiting in the Sweet 16. I think it also included the MAC and the OVC champ, and then you'd get 2 independents (in 73, #5 ranked Marquette and Jacksonville). But I have no idea how they determined which indy played the MAC or OVC champ, or which teams would be lined up to play the SEC or Big 10 in the Sweet 16. In 73, Marquette (really frequent UK NCAA opponent in that era) ended up with Indiana, even though Indiana would have had claim to a higher seed than UK, if there had been seeding.
 
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rivercatinfl

All-Conference
Nov 21, 2012
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kyjeff1 said:
Pope doesn’t have an E8, but he also doesn't have a 13-13, or even close to anything like that and he played top 4 SOS' and had bad injury problems.

You can't draw conclusions about a coach after 2 years, especially when those 2 years were riddled with injuries.

There are definitely red flags, but nothing that can't be easily fixed.
Click to expand...
Finally a response that makes perfect sense. It’s true and I think this will be his best year by a mile.
 
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Ednunn

Ednunn

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Mar 8, 2023
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kyjeff1 said:
Pope doesn’t have an E8, but he also doesn't have a 13-13, or even close to anything like that and he played top 4 SOS' and had bad injury problems.

You can't draw conclusions about a coach after 2 years, especially when those 2 years were riddled with injuries.

There are definitely red flags, but nothing that can't be easily fixed.
Click to expand...
And Joe B was left with Grevey, Connor, Flynn, jim Andrews Larry Stamper etc…
pope had nothing But a 6’ Lyon Co. frosh. Had to start from scratch.
 
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BlueSince92

BlueSince92

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TheApostleSaulSmith said:
Where's Pope's Elite Eight?
Stop tearing down UK legends to prop up Pope
Click to expand...
What a bitter, useless comment.

As if there’s a world of distance between making the Elite Eight and making the Sweet Sixteen when Jaxson Robinson was out for good and Lamont Butler was struggling with multiple injuries including a dislocated shoulder, whom many national basketball commentators were calling the best guard in the country before he got injured. We don’t have to prop up Pope but we don’t need your gibbering drivel fantasy either.
 
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TheApostleSaulSmith

TheApostleSaulSmith

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BlueSince92 said:
What a bitter, useless comment.

As if there’s a world of distance between making the Elite Eight and making the Sweet Sixteen when Lamont Butler was struggling with multiple injuries including a dislocated shoulder, whom many national basketball commentators were calling the best guard in the country before he got injured. We don’t have to prop up Pope but we don’t need your gibbering drivel fantasy either.
Click to expand...
Good then stop doing it
 
kyjeff1

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,293
72,083
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Ednunn said:
And Joe B was left with Grevey, Connor, Flynn, jim Andrews Larry Stamper etc…
pope had nothing But a 6’ Lyon Co. frosh. Had to start from scratch.
Click to expand...
Correct and I get it, it's a different time now, but it's a different time for everybody and back in the 70's, the amount of schools that even cared about basketball, was maybe 20 and the ones thst were elite, even less.
Today, every school in the country is all in on basketball and a massive amount of schools are dumping massive amounts of money into basketball each year. It's harder to win now. Much harder.
 
TheApostleSaulSmith

TheApostleSaulSmith

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kyjeff1 said:
Pope doesn’t have an E8, but he also doesn't have a 13-13, or even close to anything like that and he played top 4 SOS' and had bad injury problems.

You can't draw conclusions about a coach after 2 years, especially when those 2 years were riddled with injuries.

There are definitely red flags, but nothing that can't be easily fixed.
Click to expand...
easily fixed?
 
U

UKCowboys

All-American
Oct 14, 2019
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TheApostleSaulSmith said:
Where's Pope's Elite Eight?
Stop tearing down UK legends to prop up Pope
Click to expand...
Typical spin. Pope went S16 and without key injuries I have no doubt at all that team wins the one whole game more JBH won year one. How are you skimming over 13-13? No one is tearing down Joe B, he compared cold hard numbers. Your hate is pathetic
 
U

UKCowboys

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PastorofMuppets82 said:
Not my intention to compare Pope to Hall directly, but let's not act like Hall came into an empty cupboard like Pope did. Hall kind of got the left overs from a good UK team (ala Tubby, and Hubert Davis his first year at UNC).

Hall had been an assistant on staff at UK for what, 7 years at the time he took over as head coach? His first team which went to the Elite 8 returned quite a few players, specifically Jim Andrews. Completely different eras, conference strengths, NIL vs no NIL, etc. Just too many differences to make even an attempt at a fair comparison. But it wasn't like Hall was starting from scratch or coming from a mid major to take over fresh.

Players and their stats from the 71-72 team who returned for Hall's first season.
Jim Andrews 1971-72 6'11" JR Center (21.5 pts, 11.3 Reb, 2.5 Ast)
Larry Stamper 1971-1972 6'6" JR Forward (10.3 PTs, 10.2 Reb, 1.4 Ast)
Ray Edelman 1971-1972 6'2" SO Guard (0.8 pts, 0.4 Reb, 03. Ast)
Greg Smith 1971-1972 6'3" JR Guard (1.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.5 Ast)
Ronnie Lyons 1971-1972 5'10" SO Guard (13.2 Pts, 2.1 pts, 2.5 Ast)

Players who were on UK's roster when Pope was hired.
Travis Perry...
Click to expand...
Another great point
 
M

mjj_2K

All-American
Jul 11, 2010
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UKCowboys said:
Most coaches gain in stature with time. Rick was public enemy #1 when he flipped off BBN, now he is revered as perfect. Cal had folks leaving for sale signs on his lawn, now people are crying for him to come back.
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100% correct, though I'm wondering what the guy you responded to is actually talking about. There was no internet in 1985 and "this board", or any other board, wouldn't exist for another decade.

The only UK coach who left when people really, really wanted him to stay was Pitino. And even then, a lot of people were sick of him playing footsie with the NBA. Then, of course, he went to UL and became despised until about the last 5 years, when it's become forgive and forget.
 
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TheApostleSaulSmith

TheApostleSaulSmith

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mjj_2K said:
100% correct, though I'm wondering what the guy you responded to is actually talking about. There was no internet in 1985 and "this board", or any other board, wouldn't exist for another decade.

The only UK coach who left when people really, really wanted him to stay was Pitino. And even then, a lot of people were sick of him playing footsie with the NBA. Then, of course, he went to UL and became despised until about the last 5 years, when it's become forgive and forget.
Click to expand...
he was kidding you goofball
 
B

Blues10

Freshman
Dec 1, 2025
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UKCowboys said:
Most coaches gain in stature with time. Rick was public enemy #1 when he flipped off BBN; now he is revered as perfect. Cal had folks leaving for sale signs on his lawn, now people are crying for him to come back.
Click to expand...
Who is crying for Cal's return?
 
F

fadkins82476

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2019
1,346
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Now compare Pope's first 2 years to the GOAT, Coach K. Coach K didn't even have a winning season to year 3 at Duke.
 
BigBluefoot

BigBluefoot

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One large distinction here.
Kentucky was Joe B's first head coaching job.
Pope has been a head coach 17 years.
So it isn't like he needs to find his stride.
Apples to oranges.
 
DudahUK

DudahUK

Heisman
Jul 23, 2020
7,540
11,877
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Grevey1975 said:
I admit I've been a Pope basher and didn't like the hire to begin with BUT that being said, for those of you that remember Joe Hall's first 2 years here...First year after taking over for a legend, got to the elite Eight before losing to Indiana. Next year went 13-13 and I can remember back then, alot of talk about if he was the right guy to lead this program and the very next year,took them to the final four and the rest is history.Overall record for the first 2 years 33-21...Pope first 2 years 46-26...I'm not saying that Pope will get to a final four, just comparing the first couple of years...And I know that this is a different time and era of college basketball but hopefully Popes year 3 can produce the magic Joe Hall did in his 3rd year......
Click to expand...
You can’t remotely compare the two. Completely different generations and rules.
 
DudahUK

DudahUK

Heisman
Jul 23, 2020
7,540
11,877
113
BlueBomb said:
Hall had one of the best assistant coaches/recruiters in the country at the time -- Leonard Hamilton -- which was a significant part of his success.

I'm not trying to make any comparison with Pope. Just sharing a tidbit that us old timers will recall fondly.
Click to expand...
Loved Hamilton. He coached at was it FSU? For like forever didn’t he?
 
Runt#1969

Runt#1969

All-American
Dec 13, 2010
21,270
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Ahhhhh yes. I remember.

Joe B. was hated and the boobirds were out in full force back in the day.

While it may be fair to say it's comparing apples to oranges, different eras, situations, etc. maybe we can at least say " there are some parallels" ... just trying to see it from both sides.

Personally, Pope is no Joe B. Hall, and I don't mean it as a slight to Pope.

I am hopeful guys like Williams, Crawford, etc, can become key assistants that helps Pope thru this time frame, and can get him some immediate success. Perhaps then we can make a more accurate comparison if you wanna stick with that.

It may be harsh to look back over the past 2 seasons in its' entirety and hate on Pope for them. He was thrust into an unimaginable situation, and that situation and everything that arose from Cal leaving and our illustrious A.D. hiring Pope in the aftermath ...

well..

I'm just saying I put everything to blame squarely there, on Barney.

We never should have been in this situation ( and still shouldn't) because of his ... well... characterize it how you will. I know how I do. I am gonna be so glad when Barney is outta' here.

Then maybe we can accurately understand what and where we need to go and what to do, and giving Pope his third year should be telling. He has to earn a fourth year now, win big now. He has to show he can earn it and come thru in the clutch on the job.

Then *maybe* you can start comparing him to Hall, even over just the first 2 seasons...
 
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