Lest we not forget that McQ probably waited two months before going to Paterno. It wasn’t the next day. It was two-plus months
Ex PSU player Justin Williams with Ziegler
- Thread starter NoBareFeet
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Many claim MM was allegedly drunk at the time he was in the locker room (he had gone there from downtown State College on a Friday night... he went to the locker room to drop something at his locker - he wasn't there working out). If he was in an impaired condition, this would have a huge impact on his sensory system - no different than alcohol impairing your ability to drive. The whole situation is shady including how he handled it - he runs to an office and calls his Dad? His Dad tells him to leave the boy & JS there, leave the facility and come to his home??? (MM's Dad was a Mandatory Reporter via his job/profession - would this be the advice he gave MM if his son was telling him JS was raping a minor [or even just that he thought he was] in the PSU locker room shower... he was there.... and what should he do??? Give me a break.). The whole McQueary story stinks to high-heaven. BTW, how precisely did the corrupt AG and his "investigators" come to talk with MM about this 10 years after the fact? Supposedly they levered a story from him they could use by threatening him with potential criminal charges they had against MM and told him he better make it something they could use to further their corrupt agenda if MM wanted to save his own skin for things they had him dead-to-rights on..... Again, the whole thing stinks to high-heaven and MM appears to be one of the biggest belly-crawling dishonorable scumbags in the affair.
I'm not denying it but you're assuming that Dad & Dranov didn't know but Curley, Shultz, and Spanier did know. That quite an assumption.
Do you also assume TSM administrators knew, the high school administrators knew, and the police and CPS from 1998 knew?
IIRC MM did say that he saw the boy run out of the shower and didn't appear to be in distress. If a 10 year old boy was just subjected to anal rape I'm pretty sure he would be in distress.
Where did I say that "Dad and Dranov didn't know by Curley, Shultz and Spanier did know"? I never said or implied that.
Can you say Sandusky is a pedophile or are you in denial over that? Time to call a spade a spade.
Why do you flip it around and make stuff up about me? You claim that all of these people didn't do enough. I assume you think they knew that JS was sexually assaulting kids because it they didn't it wouldn't be appropriate to say they didn't do enough.
I've said that I'm quite confident that JS had a problem but I'm unsure about the extent of the problem. I certainly don't believe that he raped kids in the basement and Dottie ignored their screams. Some people call grooming a form of sexual assault but IMO that's a lot different than anal rape. I believe that some of victims who conveniently found their repressed memory did so for the money. I also said that I assume some of the victims were telling the truth. So I absolutely think JS had a problem. I just don't know the extent. You can call me a denier but I think that's quite unfair.
The last known address of the red haired loser was an apartment in Reston, Va.
Maybe don't make assumptions? If someone came to me and said something inappropriate happened in a shower with a child I'm pushing that to every limit. Even Joe acknowledged he wished he had done more. They all likely do and should have. Joe met his legal obligation the others didn't. I never said anything about Dad or Dranov or MM and that they shouldn't have done more.
It's not unfair. There's plenty of evidence that he abused children and used a charity to do so. He targeted poor kids who wouldn't be believed. You can downplay it all you want but that decision is why people believe Penn State fans are a cult. If you want to claim its unfair that's fine. I'm comfortable being "unfair" to those creating a defense for a pedophile.
What are you claiming I made up about you?
Ohio St. OK's $100M settlement with ex-students claiming abuse by doc - ESPN
How many OSU administrators went to prison over this ?
317+200= 517 alleged victims.
Speaking of the Sandusky case, I seem to recall:
PSP lying under oath
Prosecutors having their law licenses suspended
Judges "retired"
Penn State's general counsel being sanctioned for playing footsie with prosecution
Tim Curley informing Jack Raykovitz that Jerry was no longer welcome to use PSU facilities and Jack (never indicted or rebuked) immediately made arrangements for Jerry and company to work out down the street at (the Hilton I believe).
We can argue over Sandusky's guilt. Given the complexity, irregularities and warp speed of the trial, It's damn hard to believe he never got a new trial. I think, it might have "cleared the air" on many issues.
How many OSU administrators went to prison over this ?
317+200= 517 alleged victims.
Speaking of the Sandusky case, I seem to recall:
PSP lying under oath
Prosecutors having their law licenses suspended
Judges "retired"
Penn State's general counsel being sanctioned for playing footsie with prosecution
Tim Curley informing Jack Raykovitz that Jerry was no longer welcome to use PSU facilities and Jack (never indicted or rebuked) immediately made arrangements for Jerry and company to work out down the street at (the Hilton I believe).
We can argue over Sandusky's guilt. Given the complexity, irregularities and warp speed of the trial, It's damn hard to believe he never got a new trial. I think, it might have "cleared the air" on many issues.
I would invite anyone who thinks MM saw anything that fateful night, to examine the layout of the locker room in question. Anyone who was ever there or saw the diagram, would logically conclude that MM may have "heard" sounds that concerned him, but he didn't see anything.You =. Keep twisting in the wind with your cherry picked nonsense.
There were jurors who thought Jerry did nothing, but were tired and afraid of being painted as enablers, so they voted to hang him.
We can't argue over his guilt. That's why our scandal lives on and the rest are forgotten about. Your recollection is clouded.
There's no attorney worth a damn that's going to say he should get a new trial. Just ones looking to profit from it.
Right. Reasonable suspicion. A grown man in the shower with an unrelated male in an otherwise and expectedly unspoiled locker room at night is cause for reasonable suspicion. In all my years of making referrals to social services I can only think of one time where I reported what I saw (a mother kick her son in the stomach in school). The admins certainly had reason enough to be suspicious of what was happening to let more qualified people handle it.
Right. Reasonable suspicion. A grown man in the shower with an unrelated male in an otherwise and expectedly unspoiled locker room at night is cause for reasonable suspicion. In all my years of making referrals to social services I can only think of one time where I reported what I saw (a mother kick her son in the stomach in school). The admins certainly had reason enough to be suspicious of what was happening to let more qualified people handle it.
Exactly. It amazes me that people will grasp at every straw that Ziegler gives them and treat them as fact (MM waited months to report anything, MM was drunk, MM lied about the severity because he sent dick pics and the police blackmailed him, there were victims that may have made things up for $$$, the trial was too quick and Jerry had a bad lawyer, the jury thought he was innocent but gave in to pressure, etc)...but rationalize the fact that Jerry had a NAKED YOUNG BOY IN THE SHOWER OF AN EMPTY BUILDING with him (and it was the second time he got caught...the first which shook him to the point that he said he wished he were dead).
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One key thing overlooked continues to be that Curley et.al. were convicted partly based on them not properly reporting the shower incident.
However, Curley did report it to Jack R., a mandated reporter. Everyone accepts that as fact.
In the Spanier trial, the subject of the Line Mtn. HS incident came up, and that it was reported to Jack. Jack testified that he was a proper reporting authority.
So... why wasn't that a point made in the Curley/Schultz trial? That alone should have taken the focus off the PSU Admins and put it squarely on TSM, imo.
Ever been to a YMCA? Ever been to a YMCA in the 1990s? Ever been to a YMCA in the era Jerry grew up?
Old dudes love nothing more than showering and being naked in public. I don't understand it, but you can't pretend like it's not a thing. I believe that it is way more than just possible that Jerry did this shower thing and thought absolutely nothing of it.
Just so I understand...
You feel that it's ok for Jerry to take a kid for a light workout, then after it, get him naked and in the shower in a building that you know is empty? No red flags there, even after he was caught a few years earlier doing the same thing, and was so shook by it that he said that he wished he were dead? And you don't see the difference between a public shower with traffic in and out all day, and convincing a young boy to get naked with you in a shower in a clearly empty building (ie, when you'll have privacy)?
100% agree
Maye is a language difference - boundary vs grooming. I 100% believe the MM "experienced" something that seemed inappropriate. But I think he also "suggested" anal when he described JS pressed up against the boy's backside. I don't believe for two seconds that was anal rape because MM said the boy didn't appear to be distressed. I also don't believe Dottoe ignored screams while JS was assaulting kids and I don't believe all of the claimants who magically found their repressed memories after lawyers promised them money. That said I think there's a big difference between grooming and sodomy. I don't know the extent of JS's crimes but I certainly don't deny they happened.
Dottie was in denial...its easy to understand how she "ignored" them. Just like family members that allow abuse under their roof. She was scared as well.
I don't give C, S, and S a pass because I believe they went outside university procedures and handled thing on the side because it was Jerry. That said I find it difficult to believe that Dad, Dranov, Joe, Curley, Shultz, Spanier and people at TSM all lied about what they knew.
I don't believe that for 2 seconds. Would your wife and kids ignore screaming children?
This s a horrible attempt to justify what he was doing
This is a horrible attempt to justify what he was doing. He wasn’t in a crowded YMCA locker room shower with several people in there. He was alone in a locker room shower with a child that he worked with through his foundation established to help at-risk youth. Was investigated by the police for doing locker (later charged and convicted for it), then did it again! Absolutely nothing innocent about that.
My wife...no
My spouses...absolutely
How do you think people get away with abuse for decades?
Who knows what abuse she suffered...mentally or physically
Really? So why precisely were McQ's father and Dranov not arrested and prosecuted? They were both Mandatory Reporters under the law at the time of the incident (Schultz and Curley WERE NOT! Nor was JVP, who handled it precisely as the PSU HR Handbook said he should.). In addition, McQ's father and Dranov were told while the incident was in progress and never called authorities - McQ's father told MM on the phone to leave the facility and leave the child in JS's custody and go over to his house for Pete's sake! JVP, Schultz and Curley were not told until many days/weeks after the incident occurred - not contemporaneous with the events occurring! McQ's Dad, nor Dranov, (both Mandatory Reporters at the time) recommended that Mike do anything in regards to reporting the incident to authorities - this tells you that MM clearly did not tell them anything remotely criminal was going on. They recommended MM talk to work supervisors re: his concerns of JS bringing his Charity's Children to their shared place of work and that MM didn't like it and felt JS shouldn't be doing that in his workplace (after all, JS had no special rights to abuse their private work-area like that). It's laughable if you don't see the way this thing was selectively prosecuted and agenda/vendeta based (by the corrupt AG and Chair of the PSU BOT) - they used MM and levered him to provide manufactured evidence by threatening McQ to save his own skin relative to his own personal issues and behavior which crossed over into criminal territory.