Way off topic: Data Centers

Anon225117

Redshirt
Dec 3, 2025
27
33
13
The one bullet point says that the warming effects begin immediately. In other words, you knock down trees, strip all the other vegetation, and cover the ground with concrete and asphalt and — surprise, the local temperatures increase. That is expected for any development.

First question is volume. How many acres across the country are being built. It’s a bunch. Is anybody keeping track?

Second question is thermodynamics. How much energy is needed? Micro and macro. Electricity goes into a center and creates heat. How effectively is it dissipated? I don’t know. Other people are much smarter.
 

bbrown

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
14,014
28,629
113
The one bullet point says that the warming effects begin immediately. In other words, you knock down trees, strip all the other vegetation, and cover the ground with concrete and asphalt and — surprise, the local temperatures increase. That is expected for any development.

First question is volume. How many acres across the country are being built. It’s a bunch. Is anybody keeping track?

Second question is thermodynamics. How much energy is needed? Micro and macro. Electricity goes into a center and creates heat. How effectively is it dissipated? I don’t know. Other people are much smarter.
Your first point is spot on so thats why its not hare for me to imagine that they will produce even more heat.

The one being built in outside of El Paso is 1.2 Million sq. feet. and 1000 acres.
 

Lil Nicky Scarfo

All-Conference
Jul 1, 2025
1,417
4,148
113
Your first point is spot on so thats why its not hare for me to imagine that they will produce even more heat.

The one being built in outside of El Paso is 1.2 Million sq. feet. and 1000 acres.
Yeah, we’re dealing with a lot of Data Center Developers who are looking to tap into our generation. These “hyperscalers” are demanding massive amounts of power - hundreds of MWs with some plans over a Gig. To put it in perspective, 1MW on average can power 300ish homes during peak times
 

PSU1989

Sophomore
Nov 23, 2004
94
171
33
Does a new massive data center dedicated to AI capabilities have the capability to heat the surrounding ground and air environment?

Does a new massive Data center dedicated to AI capabilities suck water for cooling from the local surroundings?

Fill us in on Electricity usage as well.

Are they noisy?

Are you familiar with the Mega center development proposed for Homer City?

Thanks.
Does a new massive data center dedicated to AI capabilities have the capability to heat the surrounding ground and air environment? The ground, no. The slabs required to support the weight of the servers and corresponding infrastructure are quite deep (24 or more inches). Heat does not permeate that in a material way. In addition heat rises, so all the means to reject the hot air are through the plenum. Depending on the means of dispersing the hot air generated, yes it can "heat" the air but not in a way that would affect ambient temperatures around a facility. Hot air goes straight up.

Does a new massive Data center dedicated to AI capabilities suck water for cooling from the local surroundings? There is a difference between water usage and water consumption. Data centers use a lot of water as that is the primary means of cooling. Massive air conditioning units cool the data centers. The cool air is created by blowing air over coils with cold water in them. Historically that water was not efficiently consumed and it was frequently put back into the watering system as hot air or it evaporated. But the usage was inefficient (and hence my term "consumed"). The newer technologies being used (notably in 100 MW facilities or the GigaWatt campuses) are closed loop systems whereby water is contained within a closed system (so water is used, but not "consumed"). Think about your radiator, air conditioners, etc. those are closed loop systems. You don't replace the cooling agent.

Cooling to the chips (meaning cold water runs to the actual server chips ) or rear door heat exchangers (cooling elements are attached to the back of server cabinets) are closed loop systems and are much more efficient than just cooling ambient hot air. So water is "used" in the closed loop system, but once it is put into the system it is mostly there for good - maybe 1-2% loss. The thing to note is that when data centers use water it is non-potable, recycled or grey water. Potable water is not used. There are also technologies where cool water is pumped from wells, through the loop system and then redeposited in the well. The earth then cools the returned water when it comes back into the well. So kind-of closed loop. There are also data centers near water sources, or put on barges, that recycle ocean/lake water this way.

New technologies will use water, though not consume near the amount historically.

Fill us in on Electricity usage as well. Servers use a lot of electricity. What is happening now is that substations are being built specifically to support data centers so it does not tax the local grid. Access to power is the biggest determinant in data center locations. I don't want to downplay this demand at all, but ideally the power sources are independent of the grid that supports homeowners and businesses. The true break-through in the data center world will be when nuclear is an accepted form of energy generation. it is the safest, cleanest and most efficient source of energy. Facebook is beginning to use nuclear. Until then, it is a huge burden but ideally is autonomous form the existing local grid. Rates are regulated in most markets and some markets are creating separate tiers for data centers. Utility costs are going up, some due to data centers, but some just driven by the economy. As an interesting side note, the largest lobbying group opposing data centers today....... drumroll.... AARP. As they do not want to see increased utility rates for seniors on a fixed budget. I ask people this all the time and no one had guessed this yet.

Are they noisy? Inside current data centers, yes, due to old cooling infrastructure and how loud the air conditioners and fans are. New data centers are at a normal level of noise. When generators first kick on they are noisy (generators are used as back-up power sources if access to the grid is cut). Generators kick one once or twice a year and testing is done at specific times so as not to be obtrusive. But even now, local zoning generally requires data centers and generators to be at a certain dB level, which is about the same as the sound of your refrigerator.

On a side note - let me hit on the public outcry about the data center proposed across the street to Parkland high school in Allentown (where I went to high school). Our largest data center (in a mid Atlantic state) has a charter school attached to it. It is a Chinese immersion school. Half the kids are on subsidized lunches (to give an example of students at this school). That school's test scores are in the highest 90% in that state and that school wants to build its own building on our campus. Noise, heat, toxic fumes (which somehow people believe), etc. don't exist and this school proves being near a data center does not create increased risks on students or people.

Are you familiar with the Mega center development proposed for Homer City? No.
 

PSU Mike

All-American
Jul 28, 2001
4,195
7,343
113
Dear Erin,

1). Your first eco-wish list item was fulfilled. They shut down the Homer City coal-fired electricity generation plant in 2023. Are you happy now? Apparently not.

2) Now you're apparently upset that they switched to natural gas and are building an eco-friendly 4.5 GigaWatt power generation facility that is creating thousands of jobs and providing the local residents with a safe, reliable and low-cost source of electricity. Is that now taboo in your orbit?

3) Are you and your ilk ever pleased with progress?
Society is full of all kinds of **** because decisions are made at the margins.
 

PSU Mike

All-American
Jul 28, 2001
4,195
7,343
113
Your first point is spot on so thats why its not hare for me to imagine that they will produce even more heat.

The one being built in outside of El Paso is 1.2 Million sq. feet. and 1000 acres.
1.2 million sf = 27.5 acres. Must require a big buffer like 1/2 mile all around if my calcs are right.
 

Headlock

All-Conference
Dec 28, 2023
682
1,435
93
I've been building and operating data centers for 20 years. Been in Telecom infrastructure (wireless, wireline) since mid 1990's with the Telecom Act in 1996. I've been following the data center turmoil near Parkland high school. Lots of massive inaccuracies being spread. Happy to answer any questions honestly. I am about to start on a 20-40MW facility in Kentucky.
Curious as to the massive inaccuracies.
 

bbrown

Heisman
Jul 26, 2001
14,014
28,629
113
Does a new massive data center dedicated to AI capabilities have the capability to heat the surrounding ground and air environment? The ground, no. The slabs required to support the weight of the servers and corresponding infrastructure are quite deep (24 or more inches). Heat does not permeate that in a material way. In addition heat rises, so all the means to reject the hot air are through the plenum. Depending on the means of dispersing the hot air generated, yes it can "heat" the air but not in a way that would affect ambient temperatures around a facility. Hot air goes straight up.

Does a new massive Data center dedicated to AI capabilities suck water for cooling from the local surroundings? There is a difference between water usage and water consumption. Data centers use a lot of water as that is the primary means of cooling. Massive air conditioning units cool the data centers. The cool air is created by blowing air over coils with cold water in them. Historically that water was not efficiently consumed and it was frequently put back into the watering system as hot air or it evaporated. But the usage was inefficient (and hence my term "consumed"). The newer technologies being used (notably in 100 MW facilities or the GigaWatt campuses) are closed loop systems whereby water is contained within a closed system (so water is used, but not "consumed"). Think about your radiator, air conditioners, etc. those are closed loop systems. You don't replace the cooling agent.

Cooling to the chips (meaning cold water runs to the actual server chips ) or rear door heat exchangers (cooling elements are attached to the back of server cabinets) are closed loop systems and are much more efficient than just cooling ambient hot air. So water is "used" in the closed loop system, but once it is put into the system it is mostly there for good - maybe 1-2% loss. The thing to note is that when data centers use water it is non-potable, recycled or grey water. Potable water is not used. There are also technologies where cool water is pumped from wells, through the loop system and then redeposited in the well. The earth then cools the returned water when it comes back into the well. So kind-of closed loop. There are also data centers near water sources, or put on barges, that recycle ocean/lake water this way.

New technologies will use water, though not consume near the amount historically.

Fill us in on Electricity usage as well. Servers use a lot of electricity. What is happening now is that substations are being built specifically to support data centers so it does not tax the local grid. Access to power is the biggest determinant in data center locations. I don't want to downplay this demand at all, but ideally the power sources are independent of the grid that supports homeowners and businesses. The true break-through in the data center world will be when nuclear is an accepted form of energy generation. it is the safest, cleanest and most efficient source of energy. Facebook is beginning to use nuclear. Until then, it is a huge burden but ideally is autonomous form the existing local grid. Rates are regulated in most markets and some markets are creating separate tiers for data centers. Utility costs are going up, some due to data centers, but some just driven by the economy. As an interesting side note, the largest lobbying group opposing data centers today....... drumroll.... AARP. As they do not want to see increased utility rates for seniors on a fixed budget. I ask people this all the time and no one had guessed this yet.

Are they noisy? Inside current data centers, yes, due to old cooling infrastructure and how loud the air conditioners and fans are. New data centers are at a normal level of noise. When generators first kick on they are noisy (generators are used as back-up power sources if access to the grid is cut). Generators kick one once or twice a year and testing is done at specific times so as not to be obtrusive. But even now, local zoning generally requires data centers and generators to be at a certain dB level, which is about the same as the sound of your refrigerator.

On a side note - let me hit on the public outcry about the data center proposed across the street to Parkland high school in Allentown (where I went to high school). Our largest data center (in a mid Atlantic state) has a charter school attached to it. It is a Chinese immersion school. Half the kids are on subsidized lunches (to give an example of students at this school). That school's test scores are in the highest 90% in that state and that school wants to build its own building on our campus. Noise, heat, toxic fumes (which somehow people believe), etc. don't exist and this school proves being near a data center does not create increased risks on students or people.

Are you familiar with the Mega center development proposed for Homer City? No.
Good info. (y)
 

Tgar

Heisman
Nov 14, 2001
6,317
14,223
113
Does a new massive data center dedicated to AI capabilities have the capability to heat the surrounding ground and air environment? The ground, no. The slabs required to support the weight of the servers and corresponding infrastructure are quite deep (24 or more inches). Heat does not permeate that in a material way. In addition heat rises, so all the means to reject the hot air are through the plenum. Depending on the means of dispersing the hot air generated, yes it can "heat" the air but not in a way that would affect ambient temperatures around a facility. Hot air goes straight up.

Does a new massive Data center dedicated to AI capabilities suck water for cooling from the local surroundings? There is a difference between water usage and water consumption. Data centers use a lot of water as that is the primary means of cooling. Massive air conditioning units cool the data centers. The cool air is created by blowing air over coils with cold water in them. Historically that water was not efficiently consumed and it was frequently put back into the watering system as hot air or it evaporated. But the usage was inefficient (and hence my term "consumed"). The newer technologies being used (notably in 100 MW facilities or the GigaWatt campuses) are closed loop systems whereby water is contained within a closed system (so water is used, but not "consumed"). Think about your radiator, air conditioners, etc. those are closed loop systems. You don't replace the cooling agent.

Cooling to the chips (meaning cold water runs to the actual server chips ) or rear door heat exchangers (cooling elements are attached to the back of server cabinets) are closed loop systems and are much more efficient than just cooling ambient hot air. So water is "used" in the closed loop system, but once it is put into the system it is mostly there for good - maybe 1-2% loss. The thing to note is that when data centers use water it is non-potable, recycled or grey water. Potable water is not used. There are also technologies where cool water is pumped from wells, through the loop system and then redeposited in the well. The earth then cools the returned water when it comes back into the well. So kind-of closed loop. There are also data centers near water sources, or put on barges, that recycle ocean/lake water this way.

New technologies will use water, though not consume near the amount historically.

Fill us in on Electricity usage as well. Servers use a lot of electricity. What is happening now is that substations are being built specifically to support data centers so it does not tax the local grid. Access to power is the biggest determinant in data center locations. I don't want to downplay this demand at all, but ideally the power sources are independent of the grid that supports homeowners and businesses. The true break-through in the data center world will be when nuclear is an accepted form of energy generation. it is the safest, cleanest and most efficient source of energy. Facebook is beginning to use nuclear. Until then, it is a huge burden but ideally is autonomous form the existing local grid. Rates are regulated in most markets and some markets are creating separate tiers for data centers. Utility costs are going up, some due to data centers, but some just driven by the economy. As an interesting side note, the largest lobbying group opposing data centers today....... drumroll.... AARP. As they do not want to see increased utility rates for seniors on a fixed budget. I ask people this all the time and no one had guessed this yet.

Are they noisy? Inside current data centers, yes, due to old cooling infrastructure and how loud the air conditioners and fans are. New data centers are at a normal level of noise. When generators first kick on they are noisy (generators are used as back-up power sources if access to the grid is cut). Generators kick one once or twice a year and testing is done at specific times so as not to be obtrusive. But even now, local zoning generally requires data centers and generators to be at a certain dB level, which is about the same as the sound of your refrigerator.

On a side note - let me hit on the public outcry about the data center proposed across the street to Parkland high school in Allentown (where I went to high school). Our largest data center (in a mid Atlantic state) has a charter school attached to it. It is a Chinese immersion school. Half the kids are on subsidized lunches (to give an example of students at this school). That school's test scores are in the highest 90% in that state and that school wants to build its own building on our campus. Noise, heat, toxic fumes (which somehow people believe), etc. don't exist and this school proves being near a data center does not create increased risks on students or people.

Are you familiar with the Mega center development proposed for Homer City? No.
Thanks very much for taking the time to answer my questions. Much appreciated.
 

step.eng69

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2012
3,574
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What is the average heat output of a single server?

The heat output of a single server can vary greatly depending on its configuration and workload, but a typical server can generate between 500 and 1500 watts of heat. Similar to one of those 6”x 6” little space heaters you place under the desk in winter for foot warming.
High-performance servers used for demanding applications may generate significantly more heat. Figure about 5,000 servers per a medium 300,000 sf data center.

This popped up when doing a short review on data centers.
 
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Tgar

Heisman
Nov 14, 2001
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What is the average heat output of a single server?

The heat output of a single server can vary greatly depending on its configuration and workload, but a typical server can generate between 500 and 1500 watts of heat. Similar to one of those 6”x 6” little space you place under the desk in winter for foot warming.
High-performance servers used for demanding applications may generate significantly more heat. Figure about 5,000 servers per a medium 300,000 sf data center.

This popped up when doing a short review on data centers.

Yeah, I suspect the truth lies here as well. Much appreciated. As with so many of these technologies, it’s the catching up part of efficiency that is a challenge to manage. The heat released seems significant. The Fire season out west is already underway and we are going to experience the largest El Niño event ever this year ( apparently) There was no snow out west this winter to be found. Rain yes, snow no. Data centers are going to help fuel atmosphere heating and require A massive amount of new carbon based energy to operate. Sure nuclear will be way more efficient when it arrives but it is nowhere near scale and restarting Three Mile Island doesn’t seem all that efficient either.

I doubt many of these operations already built with massive up front costs are really doing much if anything to retrofit their cooling operations. Pennsylvania doesn’t monitor wells nearly as much as they should ( and focuses on wells in the northern tier of the state when it does ).

In the end, it’s one more thing we have to learn to live with Because they are not going to stop building them.

In 2010 there were 300 Data Centers ( and one could rogue, not of the scale of those being built ) and today there are over 1200. As the buildout continues to scale up, it will continue to create challenges that will always lag solutions.

Yes the servers are cooled and yes the facilities also gas off hot air. Both can be true at the same time. Yes, technology is improving to power and cool these operations but it is always lagging and in the interim, everybody picks up the cost. It is what it is.
 
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Tgar

Heisman
Nov 14, 2001
6,317
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This entire scenario gets really interesting


Yeah, I read Axios every morning along with WSJ and it feels like daily there is an article pointing out these Military / consumer coexisting relationships, the new ever evolving scale of and opportunity for someone to use the technology for sinister purposes and how the Defense Department is just gobbling this stuff up. The overlap or dual purpose is stunning to consider. Crazy times.
 
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BobPSU92

Heisman
Aug 22, 2001
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Yeah, I read Axios every morning along with WSJ




😞
 

Bwifan

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Oct 12, 2021
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Does a new massive data center dedicated to AI capabilities have the capability to heat the surrounding ground and air environment? The ground, no. The slabs required to support the weight of the servers and corresponding infrastructure are quite deep (24 or more inches). Heat does not permeate that in a material way. In addition heat rises, so all the means to reject the hot air are through the plenum. Depending on the means of dispersing the hot air generated, yes it can "heat" the air but not in a way that would affect ambient temperatures around a facility. Hot air goes straight up.

Does a new massive Data center dedicated to AI capabilities suck water for cooling from the local surroundings? There is a difference between water usage and water consumption. Data centers use a lot of water as that is the primary means of cooling. Massive air conditioning units cool the data centers. The cool air is created by blowing air over coils with cold water in them. Historically that water was not efficiently consumed and it was frequently put back into the watering system as hot air or it evaporated. But the usage was inefficient (and hence my term "consumed"). The newer technologies being used (notably in 100 MW facilities or the GigaWatt campuses) are closed loop systems whereby water is contained within a closed system (so water is used, but not "consumed"). Think about your radiator, air conditioners, etc. those are closed loop systems. You don't replace the cooling agent.

Cooling to the chips (meaning cold water runs to the actual server chips ) or rear door heat exchangers (cooling elements are attached to the back of server cabinets) are closed loop systems and are much more efficient than just cooling ambient hot air. So water is "used" in the closed loop system, but once it is put into the system it is mostly there for good - maybe 1-2% loss. The thing to note is that when data centers use water it is non-potable, recycled or grey water. Potable water is not used. There are also technologies where cool water is pumped from wells, through the loop system and then redeposited in the well. The earth then cools the returned water when it comes back into the well. So kind-of closed loop. There are also data centers near water sources, or put on barges, that recycle ocean/lake water this way.

New technologies will use water, though not consume near the amount historically.

Fill us in on Electricity usage as well. Servers use a lot of electricity. What is happening now is that substations are being built specifically to support data centers so it does not tax the local grid. Access to power is the biggest determinant in data center locations. I don't want to downplay this demand at all, but ideally the power sources are independent of the grid that supports homeowners and businesses. The true break-through in the data center world will be when nuclear is an accepted form of energy generation. it is the safest, cleanest and most efficient source of energy. Facebook is beginning to use nuclear. Until then, it is a huge burden but ideally is autonomous form the existing local grid. Rates are regulated in most markets and some markets are creating separate tiers for data centers. Utility costs are going up, some due to data centers, but some just driven by the economy. As an interesting side note, the largest lobbying group opposing data centers today....... drumroll.... AARP. As they do not want to see increased utility rates for seniors on a fixed budget. I ask people this all the time and no one had guessed this yet.

Are they noisy? Inside current data centers, yes, due to old cooling infrastructure and how loud the air conditioners and fans are. New data centers are at a normal level of noise. When generators first kick on they are noisy (generators are used as back-up power sources if access to the grid is cut). Generators kick one once or twice a year and testing is done at specific times so as not to be obtrusive. But even now, local zoning generally requires data centers and generators to be at a certain dB level, which is about the same as the sound of your refrigerator.

On a side note - let me hit on the public outcry about the data center proposed across the street to Parkland high school in Allentown (where I went to high school). Our largest data center (in a mid Atlantic state) has a charter school attached to it. It is a Chinese immersion school. Half the kids are on subsidized lunches (to give an example of students at this school). That school's test scores are in the highest 90% in that state and that school wants to build its own building on our campus. Noise, heat, toxic fumes (which somehow people believe), etc. don't exist and this school proves being near a data center does not create increased risks on students or people.

Are you familiar with the Mega center development proposed for Homer City? No.

Friend of mine sells nuclear power plants (he lives in France although born and raised in the U.S.) he was telling me how efficent the new nuclear power plants are and how small the footprint is in the area they are built. Said a plant needed to power for example the city of Buffalo the building would be the size of a small house. Was surprised to hear how little radioactive waste they generate compared to the plants built decades ago. For me it's a good way to generate power today.
 

PSU1989

Sophomore
Nov 23, 2004
94
171
33
What is the average heat output of a single server?

The heat output of a single server can vary greatly depending on its configuration and workload, but a typical server can generate between 500 and 1500 watts of heat. Similar to one of those 6”x 6” little space heaters you place under the desk in winter for foot warming.
High-performance servers used for demanding applications may generate significantly more heat. Figure about 5,000 servers per a medium 300,000 sf data center.

This popped up when doing a short review on data centers.

We are being asked for 120kw cabinets (today, not for 2-3 years down the road). Stack 25 servers in the cabinet and that is nearly 5000 watts/server! Thats why cooling to the chip and or RDHx are so important.
 
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BobPSU92

Heisman
Aug 22, 2001
43,537
34,930
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Nitt1300

Heisman
Nov 2, 2008
7,101
13,403
113
“Meanwhile, much of rural Maine “is desperately seeking investment,” Woodcock said, and data centers represent one of the few ways for such communities to grow their tax base in this economy.”

Also, Woodcock is redundant.

😞

Is it? Says who? Can’t a rural area stay rural? For f*ck’s sake.
I was thinking the same thing, maybe keep one of the last unspoiled places in the country unspoiled.
 

Anon225117

Redshirt
Dec 3, 2025
27
33
13
I was thinking the same thing, maybe keep one of the last unspoiled places in the country unspoiled.
Maine has a lot of surprising problems right now. Somali problems along with other foreign issues since nobody is paying attention to such an “unspoiled“ area. I am drawing a blank on the specifics, but it is being used by cartels or China or somewhere. The last Reacher was based in Maine and I don’t think it was just for artistic license.
 

Wilbury

Junior
Oct 28, 2021
169
243
43
DCNR does not monitor uniformly across the state.

Summary
The Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) does not monitor all water discharge comprehensively.
Monitoring Scope
  • The DCNR primarily focuses on specific regulatory programs and selected sites for monitoring water quality and hydrologic trends, rather than all water discharges across the state.
  • The Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) conducts some monitoring, but it is limited to regulatory frameworks.
AI isn't your friend. DCNR has no role in this whatsoever. And it has nothing to do with 'monitoring'. When you're discharging water to waters of the commonwealth, you apply for an NPDES permit through PA DEP. This permit sets discharge limits for all sorts of things including suspended solids and temperature. Once you get your permit, you are required to monitor your discharge, test it, file reports, etc. DEP might test the discharge but maybe not.
 
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SleepyLion

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I have been wondering why the data centers are not covered in solar panels. I would not expect the panels to generate anything near the required energy, but some would be better than nothing.

What would be the harm in covering those big roofs with panels?

To me it makes more sense than removing a forest or farm field to add panels.
 

Nittering Nabob

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Sep 17, 2024
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What is the average heat output of a single server?

The heat output of a single server can vary greatly depending on its configuration and workload, but a typical server can generate between 500 and 1500 watts of heat. Similar to one of those 6”x 6” little space heaters you place under the desk in winter for foot warming.
High-performance servers used for demanding applications may generate significantly more heat. Figure about 5,000 servers per a medium 300,000 sf data center.

This popped up when doing a short review on data centers.

Do you remember taking Thermodynamics at PSU?

My required class was taught in Schwab Auditorium, but I hated the the class from day one.. exothermic this…endothermic that. It was like attending a boring play with hundreds of other nerd engineers.

I remember having the equivalent of B- or C+ on the last day of class before the final, which wasn’t good enough by my standards so I decided to start studying.

I took the final exam and then went home for a break. Shortly before departing home to go back to State College my grades arrived in the mail at my parent’s house. My father, who was paying the tuition, opened the envelope and was pleased to report that I received one B and four A’s including one in Thermodynamics. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
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Anon225117

Redshirt
Dec 3, 2025
27
33
13
I have been wondering why the data centers are not covered in solar panels. I would not expect the panels to generate anything near the required energy, but some would be better than nothing.

What would be the harm in covering those big roofs with panels?

To me it makes more sense than removing a forest or farm field to add panels.
1)How would that affect the heat dissipation through the roof? The panels might provide more unwanted insulation. I have no idea, just lobbing it out there.

2) The electricity from solar panels would be too erratic for use in the center. It would be simpler to sell it into the grid than to install batteries and such. Maybe they could make money, maybe not.
 
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PSU1989

Sophomore
Nov 23, 2004
94
171
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1)How would that affect the heat dissipation through the roof? The panels might provide more unwanted insulation. I have no idea, just lobbing it out there.

2) The electricity from solar panels would be too erratic for use in the center. It would be simpler to sell it into the grid than to install batteries and such. Maybe they could make money, maybe not.
Yes, solar energy either goes back to the grid or is stored in batteries. Solar energy does not go straight to the appliances consuming the energy. The energy needs to be conditioned (which means consistent with no surges, etc.). Solar farms are a great source or power, but a lot goes on between the panels ultimately distribution.
 

PSU-Dude

Redshirt
Jul 25, 2015
20
25
13
This is totally untrue. DEP closely regulates water discharges, not just quality but temperature too.

What part was totally untrue?....that cooling water goes into the river warmer than when you took it out?....because that part is absolutely true
 

step.eng69

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Nov 7, 2012
3,574
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Do you remember taking Thermodynamics at PSU?

My required class was taught in Schwab Auditorium, but I hated the the class from day one.. exothermic this…endothermic that. It was like attending a boring play with hundreds of other nerd engineers. 😂
At 77-yrs old, it is getting hard to remember names - seriously. The one issue I remember is flunking out in my first term (of the tri-semester) at Penn State, all 1.0's and a 2.0. I was attending PSU on a service loan and grants from the General Arnold Foundation that my dad applied for and received for me. I didn't want anything to do with college, I wanted to join the Air Force and be a lifer as my father, grandfathers and uncles before me. My advisor told me to leave school, that I was wasting government money that other applicants could use.

When I found out my longtime girlfriend was in a family way I decided the service was not to be my future.
The answer your question about Thermodynamics, vaguely.

"The General Henry H. Arnold Education Grant program, also known as the Hap Arnold Grant, is a key component of the Air Force Aid Society (AFAS) education support. This program provides grants based on need to full-time college undergraduates who are dependent children of active duty, Title 10 Reserve, and Guard on extended active duty, Title 32 Guard performing full-time active duty, retired due to length of active duty service or disability, or deceased members. The grants cover costs such as tuition, books, fees, supplies, and curriculum-required materials, but do not include room and board, which are subject to taxation. The program is designed to support the education of dependents of U.S. Air Force and Space Force members, ensuring they have the financial assistance needed to pursue their academic goals."
 

step.eng69

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2012
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I've heard people bring up a lot of issues about data centers but heating was never one of them. This sounds like BS.

🤔

"Data centers can raise local temperatures by an average of 4 degrees Fahrenheit, with some areas experiencing increases as high as 16 degrees Fahrenheit. This phenomenon, known as the "data heat island effect," is a significant environmental concern, as it can create localized "heat islands" that affect hundreds of millions of people. The warming effect extends up to about 6 miles from a facility, and the trend is not limited to one region or climate. The study's authors caution that without intervention, the data heat island effect could become a significant factor in regional climate and public health." - New Scientist Journal

Data Centers are using various techniques to recycle the generated heat ........


'Data centers generate significant heat as a byproduct of their operations, which can be harnessed for various sustainable uses. Here are some key points on recycling heat from data centers:"
  • Heat Recovery: Data centers convert a substantial amount of electricity into heat, which can be reused for various applications, such as district heating or supporting greenhouses.

  • Applications: The heat can be used to support hydroponic greenhouses, warm swimming pools during events, and even supply heat to local heating networks.
    https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=08a8...nMtZmFyLW1vcmUtc3VzdGFpbmFibGUtMjczMTgw&ntb=1
  • Environmental Impact: Recycling waste heat can reduce greenhouse gas emissions, improve air quality, and decrease water usage, making it a valuable resource for communities.
    https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e574...dGVjaC1kYXRhLWNlbnRlcnMtZ3Vlc3QtcG9zdC8&ntb=1
  • Design Considerations: Modern cooling systems are increasingly designed to capture and reuse heat, allowing for more efficient thermal management and energy conservation.
    https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=9d0d...jeWNsaW5nLWhlYXQtaW4tZGF0YS1jZW50ZXJzLw&ntb=1
  • Future Potential: As data centers continue to grow, the demand for heat recovery solutions is expected to increase, providing opportunities for innovative applications in various sectors.

    These practices not only enhance energy efficiency but also contribute to a more sustainable approach to data center operations.
 

step.eng69

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Nov 7, 2012
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This is totally untrue. DEP closely regulates water discharges, not just quality but temperature too.
First Wilbury, nuclear power plants release heated water, known as thermal discharge, back into the surrounding aquatic environment. This thermal pollution elevates the water temperature, which can significantly alter aquatic ecosystems.

Due to the NPDES requirements a data center will probably require an "Individual Permit" for the construction and a facilities NPDES. I attached some links to some of the basic protocol that needs to be addressed for the permits.
Addressing the permitting processes with EPA and DEP agencies in various states for our clients certainty gave me a great excuse to start drinking heavily.

Working around the Philly area generally didn't require dealing with “High Quality” (HQ) or “Exceptional Value” (EV) waters, but NEPA is a different cat loaded with HQ & EV waters, probably the State College area and north to the NY border.


NPDES Permit Basics | US EPA
 
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BobPSU92

Heisman
Aug 22, 2001
43,537
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There’s been some talk here that the constant Franklin bashing is getting old and is bringing this board down. That got me “thinking” about this board come fall:

1. Will Franklin bashing distract us from trashing Campbell?

2. Will our obsession with trashing Campbell cause us to forget about Franklin? (Perish the thought.)

3. Will the board be mired in unprecedented levels of criticism of both Franklin and Campbell? In this case, will Tom need a DATA. CENTER. o_O to handle the bandwidth? If so, can the heat generated be vented to other “school” boards?

#3 is likely. Tom, this is the time to get that DATA. CENTER. o_O .

🤔
 
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Binder74

Senior
Nov 1, 2021
324
559
93
There’s been some talk here that the constant Franklin bashing is getting old and is bringing this board down. That got me “thinking” about this board come fall:

1. Will Franklin bashing distract us from trashing Campbell?

2. Will our obsession with trashing Campbell cause us to forget about Franklin? (Perish the thought.)

3. Will the board be mired in unprecedented levels of criticism of both Franklin and Campbell? In this case, will Tom need a DATA. CENTER. o_O to handle the bandwidth? If so, can the heat generated be vented to other “school” boards?

#3 is likely. Tom, this is the time to get that DATA. CENTER. o_O .

🤔
Could've used it on Lot 80 years ago.
 
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Bwifan

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
2,687
4,695
113
There’s been some talk here that the constant Franklin bashing is getting old and is bringing this board down. That got me “thinking” about this board come fall:

1. Will Franklin bashing distract us from trashing Campbell?

2. Will our obsession with trashing Campbell cause us to forget about Franklin? (Perish the thought.)

3. Will the board be mired in unprecedented levels of criticism of both Franklin and Campbell? In this case, will Tom need a DATA. CENTER. o_O to handle the bandwidth? If so, can the heat generated be vented to other “school” boards?

#3 is likely. Tom, this is the time to get that DATA. CENTER. o_O .

🤔

Agreed.... PSU under Campbell has gone from 0 recruits in the 2027 class to the #6 ranked 2027 class in 3 weeks. We can't have that kind of production at PSU! He should have PSU at #1 ranked class by now.... Fire Campbell!
 
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Wilbury

Junior
Oct 28, 2021
169
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43
First Wilbury, nuclear power plants release heated water, known as thermal discharge, back into the surrounding aquatic environment. This thermal pollution elevates the water temperature, which can significantly alter aquatic ecosystems.

Due to the NPDES requirements a data center will probably require an "Individual Permit" for the construction and a facilities NPDES. I attached some links to some of the basic protocol that needs to be addressed for the permits.
Addressing the permitting processes with EPA and DEP agencies in various states for our clients certainty gave me a great excuse to start drinking heavily.

Working around the Philly area generally didn't require dealing with “High Quality” (HQ) or “Exceptional Value” (EV) waters, but NEPA is a different cat loaded with HQ & EV waters, probably the State College area and north to the NY border.


NPDES Permit Basics | US EPA
The site might need an NPDES permit for industrial stormwater discharges, but that's not what we're talking about. This is actual discharge from a wastewater treatment facility. They treat their cooling loop discharges. So it's either one they build on site or else they discharge to an existing municipal collection system. In either case, there's a totally different NPDES permit and WQM permit associated with the treatment facility and it's discharge and includes what temperature they are allowed to discharge at. Even water discharged from power plants have temperature limits. They might be discharging at higher temperatures that the stream temperature but those have all be studied and been determined to not have an adverse impact to the receiving stream.