College basketball free agency in full swing.

[Zach Jump]

This is problem with legislating from the bench. Do you understand the difference?

How do you think legislation is enforced?

• Congress passes legislation.
• Congress has no way to enforce the legislation.
• When a person or entity believes that there is a violation of legislation passed by Congress they then file a suit with the courts.
• The courts make decision on if the described behavior is a violation of the legislation.

This is information they taught us in elementary school.

Basically all the court decisions/injunctions against the NCAA are based on the Sherman Act and related follow up legislation.

You can try to convince your local congressperson to put in legislation to repeal the Sherman Act if you want to go back to a country of one phone provider, one oil company, one company in basically every field controlling the entire market.

 

[Zach Jump]

Contracts. There you go.....

I can see that being an eventual ending point to some extent...maybe

Problem with a contract is both parties have to be willing to sign it. There has already been suits filed by universities against student athletes for breach of contract. Probably the correct thing to do, but going to make it harder to get the student athletes to sign on to a long term deal.

Going to be difficult to convince many of the top athletes to sign on for more than one year when they think there is a good chance they can get a better deal the following year.

 

[Hawkeye1984]

I am serious when I say the top 50 schools should just form their own super conference and ol

An increase cap will NEVER fly. The courts have already made that perfectly clear. I do think they can enforce the number of times a player can transfer and still be immediately eligible though..

So how does the NBA manage their salary caps, contracts and rules and regulations without a court constantly invalidating stuff. I say this in all seriousness, because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to effectively govern their rules and regulations without constant court interference?

 

[Zach Jump]

So how does the NBA get to their salary caps and contracts without a court constantly invalidating its the terms and conditions. I say this in all seriousness because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to govern their rules and regulations without court interference?

CBA

Negotiation with the players Union.

College sports does not have that avenue at this point and would take alot to make it happen since each school is its own entity. Each conference is its own entity.

 

[Franisdaman]

I'm definately in favor of some kind of salary cap for the team otherwise we just don't have a very level playing field. I'm also in favor of limiting transfers to 2 (maybe 1) unless a coach leaves.

IMHO it won't work to cap salary increase per player because they may have been grossly undervalued when signed first deal. Just my $0.02

This would have to be collectively bargained, where the players sit down with the NCAA & both sides agree to the terms.

The problem? Why would the players want to sit down and discuss limiting their income or limiting their opportunity to change place of employment? Right now the players have it all; why would they want to give anything up?

 

[Franisdaman]

Iowa makes an elite 8 run and we are recruiting Kyan Evans, while UnConn is signing 5 million dollar guards like Mullins. I am not sure people really understand the significance of this yet….

UConn and Michigan are the Dodgers & Yankees.

Iowa is the Milwaukee Brewers.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

I am serious when I say the top 50 schools should just form their own super conference and ol

So how does the NBA manage their salary caps, contracts and rules and regulations without a court constantly invalidating stuff. I say this in all seriousness, because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to effectively govern their rules and regulations without constant court interference?

NBA doesn’t care what McDonalds pays players for commercials. They would also lose in court if they tried to control it.

McDonald’s = NIL collectives in legal terms.

if the ncaa agrees the schools will pay less than the 20.5 million that hurts Iowa because they don’t have th deep private pockets.

who would this union be? Not the graduating seniors, the high school kids that signed as juniors and seniors? Low level DI included ? The ncaa going to make a union for the players? lol, no conflict of interest there.

I don’t see it. None of it.

 

[The Big Z]

I am serious when I say the top 50 schools should just form their own super conference and ol

So how does the NBA manage their salary caps, contracts and rules and regulations without a court constantly invalidating stuff. I say this in all seriousness, because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to effectively govern their rules and regulations without constant court interference?

The top 50 schools have basically already done it. Big Ten has all the money and is winning every championship. Between them and the SEC and the Big 12 in bball that’s 35-40 teams? The rest of the teams are just farm teams anymore.

 

[doughuddl2_rivals]

Every decision makes sense from a legal standpoint.

Do we restrict the movements of anyone else in this country that has not signed a binding contract?

And what if every school abides by the NCAA rules and does not make an offer to a player who in the portal and wants to transfer a 2nd time?

Is the player going to pick a school and sue them to get a roster spot and paid $3M?

And yes CC22 is stuck with the Fever for 4 years.

 

[LaQuintaHawk]

NBA doesn’t care what McDonalds pays players for commercials. They would also lose in court if they tried to control it.

McDonald’s = NIL collectives in legal terms.

if the ncaa agrees the schools will pay less than the 20.5 million that hurts Iowa because they don’t have th deep private pockets.

who would this union be? Not the graduating seniors, the high school kids that signed as juniors and seniors? Low level DI included ? The ncaa going to make a union for the players? lol, no conflict of interest there.

I don’t see it. None of it.

Perhaps, but this current model is not sustainable. We may all enjoy it right now with the initial success Ben had but five or six years from now if we don’t have legitimate shots every other year at final fours or national championships like the Michigans of the world than even Iowa fans will start to get disinterested again.

I’m sure it’s already happening at a lot of mid majors and low high majors.

There has to be a leveling of the playing field or at least the appearance of one.

 

[uihawk82]

Or maybe not even a headline at all; it would just be assumed.

Imagine being told 15 years ago that this was going to be the future of college athletics. I probably would've given up on it, but I guess the transition to this point has been gradual enough that I'm still begrudgingly, though less strongly invested.

Yep, it used to be part of being a fan to watch young players develop, start and star. You could look at your roster at the end of a season and immediately know who is coming back.

Now it is so transient that I think the heads of college sports are maybe misjudging how many fans will stay tuned as fanatics or maybe just a disinterested fan watching a few big games.

We will see if TV ratings go down. Plus I dont think it helps when you team gets thrown on peacock or some smaller outlet like the NCAA men's final four 3 games not even being on network tv.

 

[uihawk82]

Honestly, I’d cap it at 10-15% increase. I’d also limit transfers to a max of 2(with the exception a coach leaves).

I dont think anyone can cap anything right now as it is restraint of trade on their NIL rights. There will have to be some adverse effect proven that will make the legal system change some laws. remember this started and finished in the court systems many years ago with Ed O'Bannon and some others

 

[uihawk82]

Every decision makes sense from a legal standpoint.

Do we restrict the movements of anyone else in this country that has not signed a binding contract?

correct, there are restraint of trade laws that can kick in when you try to cut player movement now that the genie is out of the bottle. This is the wildest of the Wild West of college sports. Gunslingers getting paid millions to be the new sheriff in town

 

[uihawk82]

Same as it ever was. Just with (unverified) dollar signs now.

Not really, not many teams paid players under the table and it most likely not millions as that kind of secret is not a secret for very long. now everyone is getting paid and the money can come in the many millions from rich donors

 

[Hawk48]

This would have to be collectively bargained, where the players sit down with the NCAA & both sides agree to the terms.

The problem? Why would the players want to sit down and discuss limiting their income or limiting their opportunity to change place of employment? Right now the players have it all; why would they want to give anything up?

True. The commonsense collegiate sports leaders (whomever that is) need to find leverage (whatever that may be) to negotiate with the players. Otherwise, IMO it will destroy collegiate sports. Very sad state of affairs IMO.

 

[uihawk82]

How do you think legislation is enforced?

• Congress passes legislation.
• Congress has no way to enforce the legislation.
• When a person or entity believes that there is a violation of legislation passed by Congress they then file a suit with the courts.
• The courts make decision on if the described behavior is a violation of the legislation.

This is information they taught us in elementary school.

Basically all the court decisions/injunctions against the NCAA are based on the Sherman Act and related follow up legislation.

You can try to convince your local congressperson to put in legislation to repeal the Sherman Act if you want to go back to a country of one phone provider, one oil company, one company in basically every field controlling the entire market.

Our country does need anti-trust and anti-monoply laws and anti-restraint of trade laws. People have a right to work where they want but at the same time workers have the right to collectivise their labor also and form unions (although Repubs hate unions which makes you wonder why so many laborers vote Repub)

 

[Zach Jump]

And what if every school abides by the NCAA rules and does not make an offer to a player who in the portal and wants to transfer a 2nd time?

1. The NCAA has no such rule
2. That would be collusion
3. Never happen until there is such a rule

And yes CC22 is stuck with the Fever for 4 years.

She applied for a union job, was given a job offer and accepted it. That would be a contract.

There are only three people left that were hired around the same time as her that are still working for the same franchise the started with. Plenty of ability to move to another location if she wanted to press the issue.

Pretty sure you don't want to follow your example to its conclusion. The WNBA does not restrict the number of years an employee can work for one it's franchises.

 

[uihawk82]

I am serious when I say the top 50 schools should just form their own super conference and ol

So how does the NBA manage their salary caps, contracts and rules and regulations without a court constantly invalidating stuff. I say this in all seriousness, because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to effectively govern their rules and regulations without constant court interference?

The NBA and those teams are privately owned and not a school that operates under different rules. Major sports leagues do get a lot of monopoly power based on law and the courts but I cant remember any of the main legislation but a summary is below:

The NFL benefits from limited antitrust exemptions, most notably the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which allows teams to pool TV rights and negotiate contracts collectively rather than individually. This law was passed to protect the league's ability to sell broadcast rights centrally, shielding them from competition lawsuits regarding package deals.
Sportico.com +2
Key laws and legal principles favoring the NFL include:

• Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 (SBA): Protects the NFL's pooled TV rights deals, granting limited immunity from antitrust laws for broadcasting games.
• Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) Exemptions: The labor-management relationship allows the NFL to avoid antitrust scrutiny for certain team-coordination rules (e.g., salary caps, draft) because they are negotiated with the player's union.
• Limitations of Antitrust Laws: While the NFL, like the Radovich v. National Football League case showed in the past, is not entirely immune, it avoids the broad, almost blanket antitrust exemption that Major League Baseball maintains.
• Limited "Local Blackout" Rights: Although no longer in use, the 1961 Act technically allowed for, and encouraged, the blacking out of local games that did not sell out.
  Wikipedia +4

 

[Hawk48]

Our country does need anti-trust and anti-monoply laws and anti-restraint of trade laws. People have a right to work where they want but at the same time workers have the right to collectivise their labor also and form unions (although Repubs hate unions which makes you wonder why so many laborers vote Repub)

Please keep your delusional union/political opinions to yourself and off the sports board.

 

[uihawk82]

Perhaps, but this current model is not sustainable. We may all enjoy it right now with the initial success Ben had but five or six years from now if we don’t have legitimate shots every other year at final fours or national championships like the Michigans of the world than even Iowa fans will start to get disinterested again.

I’m sure it’s already happening at a lot of mid majors and low high majors.

There has to be a leveling of the playing field or at least the appearance of one.

correct, disinterested is the key word of fandom. The sports junkies will always watch as the love the nuance of the game but even some big time fans just like to see their teams compete and win a lot. Right now the Hawk men in football and bball can be a steady top half of their conference but the chances of conf titles are slim and a Natty is very slim.

 

[Zach Jump]

Our country does need anti-trust and anti-monoply laws and anti-restraint of trade laws. People have a right to work where they want but at the same time workers have the right to collectivise their labor also and form unions (although Repubs hate unions which makes you wonder why so many laborers vote Repub)

What does that have to do with this situation? Student athletes are not considered employees and have not unionized.

 

[Burghawk87]

Not really, not many teams paid players under the table and it most likely not millions as that kind of secret is not a secret for very long. now everyone is getting paid and the money can come in the many millions from rich donors

In the sense that the top traditional teams still get the pick of whoever they want. NIL/collectives/pay for play hasn't changed anything in that regard.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

Perhaps, but this current model is not sustainable. We may all enjoy it right now with the initial success Ben had but five or six years from now if we don’t have legitimate shots every other year at final fours or national championships like the Michigans of the world than even Iowa fans will start to get disinterested again.

I’m sure it’s already happening at a lot of mid majors and low high majors.

There has to be a leveling of the playing field or at least the appearance of one.

It’s sustainable. Those that have the money will pay the players. Those that have less money to pay players will pay less.

“not sustainable” IMO makes zero sense to me. The Missouri Valley has spent less on basketball than the big ten schools for decades. They still exist.

going to haves and have nots. Always has been always will be.

 

[The Big Z]

correct, disinterested is the key word of fandom. The sports junkies will always watch as the love the nuance of the game but even some big time fans just like to see their teams compete and win a lot. Right now the Hawk men in football and bball can be a steady top half of their conference but the chances of conf titles are slim and a Natty is very slim.

Has it ever been any different? At least since the 80’s for Iowa?

 

[Grayhair1981]

I can see that being an eventual ending point to some extent...maybe

Problem with a contract is both parties have to be willing to sign it. There has already been suits filed by universities against student athletes for breach of contract. Probably the correct thing to do, but going to make it harder to get the student athletes to sign on to a long term deal.

Going to be difficult to convince many of the top athletes to sign on for more than one year when they think there is a good chance they can get a better deal the following year.

What would their options be as opposed to having to sign a contract? Where would they make anywhere close to what they would make there?

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

I am serious when I say the top 50 schools should just form their own super conference and ol

So how does the NBA manage their salary caps, contracts and rules and regulations without a court constantly invalidating stuff. I say this in all seriousness, because I am not that familiar with how the NBA handles it. How are they able to effectively govern their rules and regulations without constant court interference?

They have a players union, and a collectively bargained agreement. For the most part the players union does what's best for the group overall, and the players get a vote. What's going on in college is literally the wild, wild west. Its every man for himself, and players jumping from one school to the next for a bigger payday. that's not happening in the NBA. In truth they've had a lot of years to figure out what's good for the group overall.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

And what if every school abides by the NCAA rules and does not make an offer to a player who in the portal and wants to transfer a 2nd time?

Is the player going to pick a school and sue them to get a roster spot and paid $3M?

And yes CC22 is stuck with the Fever for 4 years.

And what if every school abides by the NCAA rules and does not make an offer to a player who in the portal and wants to transfer a 2nd time?

Is the player going to pick a school and sue them to get a roster spot and paid $3M?

And yes CC22 is stuck with the Fever for 4 years.

Probably a collusion lawsuit......

 

[doughuddl2_rivals]

1. The NCAA has no such rule
2. That would be collusion
3. Never happen until there is such a rule

She applied for a union job, was given a job offer and accepted it. That would be a contract.

There are only three people left that were hired around the same time as her that are still working for the same franchise the started with. Plenty of ability to move to another location if she wanted to press the issue.

Pretty sure you don't want to follow your example to its conclusion. The WNBA does not restrict the number of years an employee can work for one it's franchises.

Aug 1 is the EO date.

CC22 is locked to the Fever for 3 years with a team option for a 4th.

 

[doughuddl2_rivals]

Probably a collusion lawsuit......

Who are you suing?

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

Who are you suing?

Who are you suing?

You are NEVER going to get ALL the schools to not make offers to players. that's not happening. If it did happen it would be so ground breaking there would be cries that the schools were "in collusion" to force players to give up their freedom of movement and higher pay.

 

[doughuddl2_rivals]

You are NEVER going to get ALL the schools to not make offers to players. that's not happening. If it did happen it would be so ground breaking there would be cries that the schools were "in collusion" to force players to give up their freedom of movement and higher pay.

That's where the monetary penalty of the EO would make the president and board of the school stop the coach and AD on making an offer.

I posted in another thread that Iowa has gotten a billion dollars over the last 3 years in grants. Sure sue the government and wait for the results in 2-3 years without any money to fund the research.

The EO also thought that penalties to the schools from their conference could be loss of scholarships and TV revenue.

If nothing is ready to go by August then this was just lip service by the coaches, ADs and conference leadership. Just another example of the rich elite schools imposing their will over the rest. Big bank accounts always win.

 

[Zach Jump]

Aug 1 is the EO date.

CC22 is locked to the Fever for 3 years with a team option for a 4th.

So?

She signed a contract that her union reps negotiated for her.

I don't get your response. You started this by quoting a post I literally stated being under a legally binding contract is the one exception.

Even using your Caitlin reasoning. She is not very restricted. She can go play in a multitude of different leagues in the United States and the rest of the world. Her only restriction is not being able to quit one branch of the company and go work for a different department in the same company.

 

[Zach Jump]

What would their options be as opposed to having to sign a contract? Where would they make anywhere close to what they would make there?

The option is that it only takes one program to break ranks.

I would put the odds at basically -98,853,863,764,445 that nobody would go out and get the best players at terms that are agreeable to the player.

 

[MAXIMUSHAWKEYE]

UConn and Michigan are the Dodgers & Yankees.

Iowa is the Milwaukee Brewers.

If Iowa is the Brewers, I'll take it. Their front office runs circles around the Cubs that have much more monetary resources. They have consistently punched above their weight for the last 20 years.

 

[uihawk82]

Has it ever been any different? At least since the 80’s for Iowa?

Tom DAvis's first 4 or 5 years I had friends and relatives who hadnt watched must Iowa ball who really got into it. I think Lute's final four team caught a lot of people sleeping and they didnt get into that season until it was almost over.

 

[Kceasthawk@77]

That's where the monetary penalty of the EO would make the president and board of the school stop the coach and AD on making an offer.

I posted in another thread that Iowa has gotten a billion dollars over the last 3 years in grants. Sure sue the government and wait for the results in 2-3 years without any money to fund the research.

The EO also thought that penalties to the schools from their conference could be loss of scholarships and TV revenue.

If nothing is ready to go by August then this was just lip service by the coaches, ADs and conference leadership. Just another example of the rich elite schools imposing their will over the rest. Big bank accounts always win.

I'm saying the players (agents), would sue the schools, not the schools sue the govt.

 

[Grayhair1981]

Are "NIL" payments not gifts? There is no expectation of services to be rendered for their payment. If so, shouldn't the payors be responsible for taxes above the 19k per year max?

 

[Zach Jump]

I'm saying the players (agents), would sue the schools, not the schools sue the govt.

The current transfer portal system did not come for m a players lawsuit.

It was the states.

Tennessee and Virginia filed suit against the NCAA and was joined by many other states.

Tennessee AG has already stated the EO will not survive the legal challenges.

 

[Zach Jump]

Are "NIL" payments not gifts? There is no expectation of services to be rendered for their payment. If so, shouldn't the payors be responsible for taxes above the 19k per year max?

There is an expectation of services to be rendered. These people are not dumb, they know to structure these deals.

 

[Grayhair1981]

There is an expectation of services to be rendered. These people are not dumb, they know to structure these deals.

The people paying them are not part of the institutions they will be performing services for. It would be like me paying Adrian Newey however many euros it would have taken to keep him at Red Bull just because that is my favorite team. I am not affiliated with Red Bull. He would not be performing any specific services per my instruction. He would be staying there and doing whatever the team owners told him to do.
And if they are so clever in structuring deals, how does something like the Proctor fiasco happen?