The economy

fskillet

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Mar 26, 2026
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Government bonds have a much lower interest rate than typically development loan debt. They don’t lose money by not charging property taxes. Why pay taxes to yourself? Churches and other nonprofits don’t pay property taxes. The rent would be charged so that the asset break even accounting for all expenses. But without a profit component and taxes rent would be substantially below market rate. The taxpayer is not harmed because the government owns the asset and it pays for itself. Currently the tax payers is asked to subsidize rents. At least this way an asset is created vs just handing out money.

you pay a developer a fee to develop the asset. The government doesn’t have the expertise to do that.
seems like a pretty creative idea. pardon my ignorance, but has something like this been implemented before?
 

baltimorened

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seems like a pretty creative idea. pardon my ignorance, but has something like this been implemented before?
here's an excerpt from the NY post about the NYC housing authority:

NYCHA’s own internal data shows it takes 449 days on average – or roughly 15 months– to resolve tenants’ non-emergency repair requests like clogged tubs and broken refrigerators, compared to 370 days just two years earlier.

Some repair requests — for routine fixes like faulty pipes — remain unresolved more than five years later, according to residents.

As of last month, paint jobs took an average of 616 days to complete, electrical work 237 days, plumbing 233 days, and elevator repair 101 days.

Government run housing...I'm not sure everyone sees government inefficiency the same way I do.
 

kidmike41

All-American
Dec 29, 2005
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here's an excerpt from the NY post about the NYC housing authority:

NYCHA’s own internal data shows it takes 449 days on average – or roughly 15 months– to resolve tenants’ non-emergency repair requests like clogged tubs and broken refrigerators, compared to 370 days just two years earlier.

Some repair requests — for routine fixes like faulty pipes — remain unresolved more than five years later, according to residents.

As of last month, paint jobs took an average of 616 days to complete, electrical work 237 days, plumbing 233 days, and elevator repair 101 days.

Government run housing...I'm not sure everyone sees government inefficiency the same way I do.
You could hire a 3rd party management company like other private owners.

My idea is that the government owns and pays for it, but private entities develop and manage. Government can’t be trusted to not screw it up.
 

Hotshoe

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Feb 15, 2012
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Military spending was 4.6% of GDP when Clinton took office.
Clinton cut defense spending during his tenure. Some say it left us unprepared for 9/11.
It was 4.9% of GDP under Obama in 2010.
Spending was 3.4% of GDP last year (before the Iran war).

I have mixed feelings because I think national defense is the #1 job of the national government. On the other hand we're approaching a $40 trillion debt and it's growing fast. I fully support Trump pressing NATO to do more to defend itself. I don't think we can afford to be the world's policeman.

I'd probably agree to an extra $150 billion to replenish much of what we've lost in Ukraine & Iran and maybe another $100 billion to grow. But certainly not $1.5 trillion.
We desperately need to fund our Navy. It's aging and we're borrowing parts from ships to repair others.
 

Hotshoe

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didn't we pass an infrastructure bill during Biden admin...something over $1.2 trillion
1.2 Trillion, and he wanted 2-3 Trillion more. Sinema and Manchin stopped him based on promises to Manchin. Biden flat out lied to Manchin, and Biden went public to the point that, Manchin had to hire private security to protect his family. Now, imagine what inflation would have been with that additional spending on social programs. Absolute insanity.
 
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bdgan

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I am for solar, but not for cutting down forests for a solar farm. It needs to be over parking lots or on top of buildings.
I'm for all kinds of energy including wind and solar. The difference is I think each one has to pay it's own way without huge subsidies.
 
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baltimorened

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You could hire a 3rd party management company like other private owners.

My idea is that the government owns and pays for it, but private entities develop and manage. Government can’t be trusted to not screw it up.
just remember, in your plan, government is paying or is receiving below market value for it's properties. In this scenarios it's likely or at least possible, they're operating at a negative cash flow. they still have the maintenance of the properties to pay for.
 

kidmike41

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just remember, in your plan, government is paying or is receiving below market value for it's properties. In this scenarios it's likely or at least possible, they're operating at a negative cash flow. they still have the maintenance of the properties to pay for.
No they will not be at a negative cash flow position. They are able to charge below market rent because they don’t have to cover property taxes(this is a huge number) and then they don’t need to make a profit. They make sure that they cash flow.
 

fatpiggy

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Aug 18, 2002
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The sad truth is the oil companies are very happy to increase profits as long as possible imo.
I don’t think that’s sad at all. Making a profit is their job. It’s not their fault their product is in demand.

Profit ensures the oil goes to the highest and best use case.
 

TigerGrowls

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Dec 21, 2001
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I don’t think that’s sad at all. Making a profit is their job. It’s not their fault their product is in demand.

Profit ensures the oil goes to the highest and best use case.
In that respect yes but I think it's dishonest if they are allowing incorrect data to determine market prices. I understand their primary function is to make as much profit as possible though...absolutely.
 

fatpiggy

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Aug 18, 2002
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In that respect yes but I think it's dishonest if they are allowing incorrect data to determine market prices. I understand their primary function is to make as much profit as possible though...absolutely.
Data doesn’t determine market prices. Supply and demand does.

Incorrect data is a part of the market. If you make decisions off bad data, that is your own fault. You will lose money quickly and won’t be a part of the market for long.

Don’t use the wrong data.
 

TigerGrowls

Heisman
Dec 21, 2001
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Data doesn’t determine market prices. Supply and demand does.

Incorrect data is a part of the market. If you make decisions off bad data, that is your own fault. You will lose money quickly and won’t be a part of the market for long.

Don’t use the wrong data.
True but the post you shared stated the ships are turning their transponders off and going through the strait so the analysts are not counting the supply. That's the way I interpreted it so that would be a distortion keeping the price higher.

This is wild: Citrini sent a dude with $15,000 cash, recording sunglasses, and a pack of Cuban cigars to the Strait of Hormuz. What he found flips everything Wall Street thinks about the strait on its head.

Every hedge fund, every macro desk, every retired general on CNBC is watching the same AIS shipping data to price Hormuz risk. The analyst signed a pledge at an Omani checkpoint promising not to gather information, then smuggled in a gimbal, a microphone kit, and a 150x zoom Leica camera past the border officer who inspected his bag.

What he discovered on the ground: the AIS data everyone is trading on is missing roughly half of what's actually transiting the strait on any given day. Ships are going dark, spoofing destinations, broadcasting "CHINESE CREW OWNER" through transponder fields to avoid getting hit. Iran's ghost fleet is running 29+ laden tankers inside the Gulf with transponders off, moving an estimated $3B in crude to Malaysia since the war started.

The entire market is pricing a "closed" strait off satellite imagery and transponder data that has a 50% blind spot. Every oil model, every supply forecast, every macro call built on AIS throughput numbers is working from a dataset that systematically overstates the disruption.

When the signals deliberately go dark, the people staring at dashboards are the last to know what's happening. Citrini figured that out by putting a guy on a speedboat 18 miles from the Iranian coast while Shahed drones flew overhead.

The gap between "what AIS says" and "what's actually transiting" is the most mispriced variable in energy right no
 
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fatpiggy

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True but the post you shared stated the ships are turning their transponders off and going through the strait so the analysts are not counting the supply. That's the way I interpreted it so that would be a distortion keeping the price higher.

This is wild: Citrini sent a dude with $15,000 cash, recording sunglasses, and a pack of Cuban cigars to the Strait of Hormuz. What he found flips everything Wall Street thinks about the strait on its head.

Every hedge fund, every macro desk, every retired general on CNBC is watching the same AIS shipping data to price Hormuz risk. The analyst signed a pledge at an Omani checkpoint promising not to gather information, then smuggled in a gimbal, a microphone kit, and a 150x zoom Leica camera past the border officer who inspected his bag.

What he discovered on the ground: the AIS data everyone is trading on is missing roughly half of what's actually transiting the strait on any given day. Ships are going dark, spoofing destinations, broadcasting "CHINESE CREW OWNER" through transponder fields to avoid getting hit. Iran's ghost fleet is running 29+ laden tankers inside the Gulf with transponders off, moving an estimated $3B in crude to Malaysia since the war started.

The entire market is pricing a "closed" strait off satellite imagery and transponder data that has a 50% blind spot. Every oil model, every supply forecast, every macro call built on AIS throughput numbers is working from a dataset that systematically overstates the disruption.

When the signals deliberately go dark, the people staring at dashboards are the last to know what's happening. Citrini figured that out by putting a guy on a speedboat 18 miles from the Iranian coast while Shahed drones flew overhead.

The gap between "what AIS says" and "what's actually transiting" is the most mispriced variable in energy right no
But why is that the oil companies fault?They should not be penalized for profiting off that.

Who knows if that guys story is true? That’s why we have a market, to discover the right price.

Not the Oil companies fault, they aren’t doung anything wrong. It’s the opposite, its the market at work sending the oil to where it’s needed most.
 
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baltimorened

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I don’t think that’s sad at all. Making a profit is their job. It’s not their fault their product is in demand.

Profit ensures the oil goes to the highest and best use case.
to tell the truth, I'm kind of surprised that Trump hasn't called in oil execs and demanded a US price instead of a global one. There is/will be a call for some form or an excess profits tax....so, beat the system, set a US price and let the US consumers save. Make big profits off international sales.
 
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fatpiggy

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to tell the truth, I'm kind of surprised that Trump hasn't called in oil execs and demanded a US price instead of a global one. There is/will be a call for some form or an excess profits tax....so, beat the system, set a US price and let the US consumers save. Make big profits off international sales.
It will be bad policy. Let the free market do it work.

Distortion almost always exacerbate the problem in the long term
 

fskillet

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Mar 26, 2026
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to tell the truth, I'm kind of surprised that Trump hasn't called in oil execs and demanded a US price instead of a global one. There is/will be a call for some form or an excess profits tax....so, beat the system, set a US price and let the US consumers save. Make big profits off international sales.
That's a socialism, friend. Can't be dictating the profits of private industries.
 
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fatpiggy

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Last week

WTI was $100
Brent was $116
Oman was $175

Anyone could trade those prices and help get the oil where it needs to go
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
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And last if you think oil companies are making too much money, then you should definitely buy oil stocks
 

baltimorened

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Last week

WTI was $100
Brent was $116
Oman was $175

Anyone could trade those prices and help get the oil where it needs to go
I understand all your arguments and am not arguing accuracy..everyone is right....he're's my thought...there will be, and might already be some movement on capitol hill for a excess profits tax..we've done it before. So, three choices...companies keep excess profits, Congress taxes them, or company's come up with a US price -vis a vis - the global price.....

It's just a thought. Obviously the majority of return posts don't agree...Don't throw me off the capitalist train...please
 

baltimorened

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I don't doubt Sen Murphey's chart, but I wish he would have gone back to 1973. Back then it didn't make an difference what the price was, there was none...for those that didn't live through that, when I say there was none..there was an embargo, gas was limited, lines for miles, limits on how much you could buy...
 

dpic73

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Jul 27, 2005
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I don't doubt Sen Murphey's chart, but I wish he would have gone back to 1973. Back then it didn't make an difference what the price was, there was none...for those that didn't live through that, when I say there was none..there was an embargo, gas was limited, lines for miles, limits on how much you could buy...
It's not his chart, it's AAA's but what does that have to do with the highest non-pandemic related gas price in AAA's history?
 

baltimorened

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It's not his chart but what does that have to do with the highest non-pandemic related gas price in AAA's history?
I just wanted to make sure his - the charts - numbers were accurate and based on constant dollars. We all know you can come up with numbers to show just about anything you want, but in reality a $1/gal increase in 1973 is the equivalent of about $7.63 today. Back then gas went from about $.35/ gallon to anywhere from $.55 to $1/gallon so in today's dollars that means gas went up from $1.53 to up to about $4.90/gallon (quick math, so you might want to dig deeper).

So the chart might be 100% right comparing then year dollars but off when comparing constant dollars. Just a thought
 
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dpic73

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I just wanted to make sure his - the charts - numbers were accurate and based on constant dollars. We all know you can come up with numbers to show just about anything you want, but in reality a $1/gal increase in 1973 is the equivalent of about $7.63 today. Back then gas went from about $.35/ gallon to anywhere from $.55 to $1/gallon so in today's dollars that means gas went up from $1.53 to up to about $4.90/gallon (quick math, so you might want to dig deeper).

So the chart might be 100% right comparing then year dollars but off when comparing constant dollars. Just a thought
It may not account for inflation, you're correct but Murphy's point is it was artificially created due to Trump's war of choice.
 
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baltimorened

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It may not account for inflation, you're correct but Murphy's point is it was artificially created due to Trump's war of choice.
Oh, if it's coming from Sen Murphy I had no doubt he was trying to make a negative point about trump. And you know what, the current price is inflated because of the Iran war. I don't think that anybody will or should disagree with that.

Of course, there is another side of this (always is in my mind). If or when oil/gas prices come down because of trump actions in Iran in let's say 6 months to a year as "experts" predict, what are your odds that sen Murphy will post similar chart showing corresponding reductions in prices?

But to be fair, if we're going to compare all these things we should compare apples to apples.
 
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dpic73

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Oh, if it's coming from Sen Murphy I had no doubt he was trying to make a negative point about trump. And you know what, the current price is inflated because of the Iran war. I don't think that anybody will or should disagree with that.

Of course, there is another side of this (always is in my mind). If or when oil/gas prices come down because of trump actions in Iran in let's say 6 months to a year as "experts" predict, what are your odds that sen Murphy will post similar chart showing corresponding reductions in prices?

But to be fair, if we're going to compare all these things we should compare apples to apples.
Picky picky ;)
 

fatpiggy

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Aug 18, 2002
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good to see you still have a sense of humor...it's been a tough day on the board.

All of us, I think, can sigh relief at the agreement of a cease fire. No one wanted to see the consequence of a major bombing.
Meh, some of us did. I didn’t want any civilians hurt, but I wanted to put the nail in the regimes coffin.

We may still have a chance in two weeks.