So if I witnessed a police man torturing a tied up person, I best mind my own business? Or raping a kid? Where are they out of bounds?
time to de escalate in mn
- Thread starter baltimorened
- Start date
Maybe. But we KNOW they're abusing people and murdering them. Is murder no longer a bad thing, like torturing someone or raping them? I guess we'll never know if they do rape and torture, if we follow the nazi playbook of "mind your own business and respect my authoritay!"
Well, they GENERALLY do. But this is DONALD TRUMP we are talking about. Conservatives have sold out on the constitution and law and order. What Trump says is what "Conservatives" want.
Remember when there we military training going on in Texas under Obama and Republican were up in arms about how Feds shouldn't be in the state and Governor Abbot was threating to withdraw from the US itself. Remember when Republicans USED to be all about state's rights? Not so much now, right?
Did you have 3000 poorly trained, maga-hating agents concentrated in one area?
Maybe … but … he was incapacitated in the ground, with 4/5 agents on top of him, no longer a threat, and they shot him dead … and are now lying about the circumstances.
Sure, he was interfering. Sure if he hadn’t been there he would be alive today. Sure he was armed and carrying two additional mags (but he was compliant with state law and was exercising his constitutional right. Why he had then is irrelevant). Fact remains, that agent was absolutely unjustified in this shooting and the admin is t doing themselves any favors by blatantly lying about it.
Dont be a tool this isnt tyrannical. Enforcing law is tyrannical now? In that case the Biden admin was tyrannical on j6. Both are stupid points to try and make. You do have the right to bear arms in that situation where the Gov is violating laws coming after you. Thats why the people in WACO didnt end up in prison after the fiasco even tho they killed agents. This wasnt that situation. You dont have the right to interfere with a law enforcement operation or obstruct. You dont have the right to disobey lawful orders from LEO's. You dont have the right to resist detainment or arrest. You dont have the right to unlawfully carry a firearm which he did because he had no ID on him. He also carried said weapon loaded with a round in the chamber and no safety on. Tragic situation but dude was no angel and it all could have been avoided had he made better choices. My guess is since he was trans he wanted to impress his friends and it got out of hand...
Last edited:
Sanctuary policies not helping the FEDS by turning over the illegals when they have them in custody forces ICE to do it this way. Locals are suppose to provide crowd control to keep people from interfering with the ICE operations. If they did this then these clashes would not happen. But mayors order the locals to stand down and not assist so this is what happens...
DAMN you are stupid... I have to admit that I didn't read the whole thing. I was out after your 2nd sentence. Who was tyrannical on January 6th? I'll give you a hint... Joe Biden was NOT the President.
MAGA wrong about what in this matter, and like the left ever admits they are wrong. Even this thread it says unarmed even tho everybody knows he was armed. Like with Good she did drive at and hit the agent.
Speaking purely from the perspective of a gun guy, carrying a pistol, in a holster, with a round in the pipe with the safety off (or in a gun with no thumb-activated external safety) should not be considered unusual. It's actully smart. You cannot assume that you will have time or the ability to chamber a round (or even remember to do so). In high stress situations, you do not want to have to rely on fine motor skills like flicking a safety with your thumb or rely on that one single thing that causes a catastrophy if you dont (e.g. forgetting to actually load a round into the chamber).
A pistol properly secured in a holder that covers the trigger is inherently safe . It not likely to be dropped and it is protected from accidental firing from an article of clothing or whatever from snagging the trigger.
Last edited:
Thats one way to look at it, but the other side is it goes off like in this case and it got him killed. I always have my safety on unless im pulling the trigger. Being a grunt its trained into my soul safety safety safety. Dumb mistakes gets you or somebody killed, just like this case...
1. If you don't like something on the public policy front, by all means petition for redress of grievances. (Not a basis for being shot dead).
2. If you really don't like something on the public policy front, by all means peaceably assemble and demonstrate, ideally in a public location that is not chosen simply to disrupt governmental functions. (Not a basis for being shot dead).
3. If you feel compelled to assemble in a public location that has been chosen to disrupt governmental functions, do so in a way that is passive rather than personally aggressive vis a vis executing the function. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
4. If you really feel like you have to go beyond peaceful assembly and get into aggressive assembly, recognize the potential for escalation, and don't bring a gun even if you do have full second amendment rights to do so. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
5. If you really really feel the need to bring your gun and it is otherwise permissible for you to do so, see rule #3, rinse and repeat. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
6. If you did bring your gun and if things go sideways and you become subject to arrest or enforcement, cooperate, and do alert arresting officers to the fact that you have it on your person. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
7. For God's sakes, don't pull it out. (Potential basis for being shot dead.)
While I'm not obsessively watching socials on this stuff, I'm not seeing/hearing too much about #7. Perhaps that'll change. But in the meantime, potential basis for disciplinary, civil, or criminal sanction.
2. If you really don't like something on the public policy front, by all means peaceably assemble and demonstrate, ideally in a public location that is not chosen simply to disrupt governmental functions. (Not a basis for being shot dead).
3. If you feel compelled to assemble in a public location that has been chosen to disrupt governmental functions, do so in a way that is passive rather than personally aggressive vis a vis executing the function. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
4. If you really feel like you have to go beyond peaceful assembly and get into aggressive assembly, recognize the potential for escalation, and don't bring a gun even if you do have full second amendment rights to do so. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
5. If you really really feel the need to bring your gun and it is otherwise permissible for you to do so, see rule #3, rinse and repeat. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
6. If you did bring your gun and if things go sideways and you become subject to arrest or enforcement, cooperate, and do alert arresting officers to the fact that you have it on your person. (Not a basis for being shot dead.)
7. For God's sakes, don't pull it out. (Potential basis for being shot dead.)
While I'm not obsessively watching socials on this stuff, I'm not seeing/hearing too much about #7. Perhaps that'll change. But in the meantime, potential basis for disciplinary, civil, or criminal sanction.
Wait. The gun didn't get him killed by magically going off prompting the officer to open fire, to my knowledge. So its not like the presence or absence of an engaged safety or weather or not his gun was hot had any bearing.
BREAK
I get safety and I get the grunt thing. Always must have the decocker on the M9 engaged. There are reasons for why that is, of course.... However giving you best odd of survival in high stress close combat situation where your long gun suddenly becomes inop (broke or out of ammo) and you are actively engaging at close range, is not one of those reasons. The added safety (to protect against joe doing dumb **** in spite of all training) is worth it given the likelyhood that a grunt will have to whip out a pistol to engage a threat rather than simply getting down behind cover and reloading his long gun, or making the decison to switch to a pistol as a last resort, is infitesimally small.
Do what you are comfortable with, but some food for thought if you are interested...
Loaded pistol with no safety or no safety engaged, in a holser never shoots by itself
Loaded pistol in you hand won't shoot if you don't pull the trigger
With that said, say you have a imminent deadly thgreat,
You draw your pistol (congratulations you have a gun!)
Now lets worse case scenario it... .
Becuase you are stressed or engaged in a physical confruntation you forget to activate or you fat-thumb the safety because you are using your non-dominant hand and it remains on.
Pull the trigger and you get *nothing*
Then, if you have some training, the immediate action for failure to fire on a semi-auto handgun is the "tap, rack bang" drill.
You do that, and you get *nothing* again.
Best case is you try the safety "again" next (how long has that taken?) But its also likely that continue to tap rack bang because that is the immediate action dcrill for failure to fire, ejecting all your live rounds for the rest of the time you have left on the earth. Dying why your gun was broken or your ammo bad.
Right after the office yells gun the shot happens. I dont see the gun in eithers hands they are still struggling. SIG320's have a history of misfires. Thats why you dont chamber a round in them. Also i would carry different depending on the situation. Am I deployed or here at home in public. I myself always have the safety on here at home or off if Im on patrol and we are out of the wire. Tells you I dont own a glock or SIG
...nothing wrong with your analysis, I just used minigun at 4000rpm...much easier.
the only thing I might point out, Mr pretti was not supposedly looking for a fight. I don't think he anticipated the need for a quick draw and shoot scenario. That's why I don't buy the "he was going to massacre" Ice agents. He had the chance when they were all just walking up the street. I don't know why he wouldn't have safety on
Fired and sent to retirement. The spin, propaganda, and bs didn't work. Truth won out. Good riddance
We will see I suppose. If there is still immigration enforcement going forward I would say the mob did not win.
Hopefully it’s peaceful enforcement.
Pretty savvy move by Trump if we are being honest. Remove someone who had nothing at all lol to do with the incident to appease the mob, and then replace him with someone tougher.
I know you're not going to remmeber this, but peaceful enforcement is what people have been clamoring for.
Then they should gtfo of the way.
That’s probably one of the dumbest statements I’ve read in a long time.
we want peaceful enforcement but are going to make databases to track your agents, blow whistles following them around, deny them service, physically assault them, verbally assault them, bring our loaded weapons around them. We want peaceful enforcement!!! What a croc of sh it.
It's insane what Trump can make you guys do ... he now has you spitting on the 2nd Amendment when that used to be one of the pillars of the con movement for ... well, seemingly forever. In seconds, you abandoned it, to stand by your man.
It's almost like these dudes only see things from ONE perspective and get their information from ONE set of sources that confirm their preconceived biases
It is time to de-escalate. No doubt.
It won't happen though. The American left today is unhinged and near insane. They want unrest and will do their best daily to create it.
It won't happen though. The American left today is unhinged and near insane. They want unrest and will do their best daily to create it.
If ICE agents have actual warrants from actual judges, if ICE agents aren't barging into homes, if ICE agents aren't racially profiling and stopping anyone and everyone they see, if ICE agents aren't stalking the streets in masks with guns drawn, and if ICE agents are ACTUALLY going after undocumented individuals with criminal records, the left will not push back nearly as much.
Hopefully with Bovino getting fired and Miller muzzled some, it will happen as it always should've, and not in this authoritatrian, draconian way.
Last edited:
You clowns don't want to de-escalate. You want more violence. More death.
ICE is doing the job in these states with cooperation from state and local authorities. You have no idea of reality obviously.
Now let's do Kristi Noem, Kash Patel and Stephen "the Rat" Miller!