Locksley on the hot seat.

[Anon1753438667]

Brohm benefited from being in the B1G west. I think GS 2.0 did play Brohm once. I’m sure we lost by a lot.

Thought we won that’s game? Isn’t that the game Johnny football basically grinded out the win - Rutgers was accused of running the 1869 offense lol.

 

[eddynyse]

Yea I figured it's covered by the university but we're not alone in that. And whether it comes from the university covering costs or donations, money is money regardless of its source. UCLA is also in the 200M plus range over the last some odd years. and they're talking about going in deeper. VT just approved a 50M/yr increase in the AD budget over the next 5 years. That's not all donations. Athletic fees, student fees etc.. will be used for revenue sharing with players. I've seen articles lately where a bunch of schools will be doing it.

If I get 10M from donations or 10M from the school, it's still 10M I have to utilize either way.

Capital projects debt isn't a solo thing either.

From an article in the Athletic earlier this year.

Four programs, however, extended a concerning five-year financial trend. UCLA, which joined the Big Ten this year, spent nearly $51.9 million more than it made. Over the past five fiscal years, the department’s losses now total $200.61 million. Rutgers and Maryland continue to struggle financially while they reimburse the Big Ten for money borrowed between 2014 and 2020. Rutgers reported a $41.5 million loss, which leaves its department more than $139 million in the red over the past five years. The deficit has grown each year.

Capital projects instantly become the greatest expense for any athletic department whenever they begin, whether the cost is covered by gifts or through state-issued bonds. The Big Ten’s 16 public schools reported a wide range of annual debt service from those with new or recently completed projects (Ohio State, $33.7 million; Nebraska, $30.5 million) to those without, such as Maryland and UCLA, which each spent less than $700,000.

Twelve athletic departments have total debt exceeding $90 million, and six are north of $225 million, led by Illinois ($312.5 million) and Ohio State ($286.7 million). Michigan ($252.8 million), Penn State ($246.9 million), Washington ($244.4 million) and Iowa ($227.8 million) are next in line.

Many — but not all — of the Big Ten’s athletic departments are considered self-supporting, meaning they receive no direct university funds. UCLA claims no athletic debt, and Maryland lists $8 million, so their universities scrub away their financial shortfalls. UCLA received $30 million in direct institutional support and another $1.5 million in student fees. Maryland picked up nearly $12 million in student fees and $6.1 million in direct support. Rutgers, which charts its athletic debt at $51.4 million, received more than $21 million in student fees and direct institutional support.

Five departments — Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska and Purdue — obtained no financial support through fees or direct university support. Wisconsin, Iowa and Oregon collected small amounts for shared facilities, utility usage or other purposes. Indiana accepted a $26 million loan to cover football costs following coach Tom Allen’s dismissal. Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State and Washington received fees or direct support totaling between $4 million and $11 million each.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/61...ten-athletic-department-financial-statements/

Rutgers overall giving in 2024 was $256 mil, and 95% of that was not for athletics. Also, RU has 33k donors in 2024 compare to William & Mary at 30k, Purdue at 85k and Penn State at 235k.

Institution FY2024 Booster Contributions (Millions)
Big Ten High Range $77.1
Big Ten Average $42.7
Big Ten Low Range $11.4
Rutgers University $8.5 ( we are at the bottom of the b10 and most of P5 programs.)


A few additional points about your post:

1) The "money is money" argument is flawed because the source matters. The article itself shows a clear difference between self supporting programs (Michigan, OSU, Penn State) and subsidized ones. Our "money" includes over $21 million in student fees and direct university support. That's not revenue from a packed stadium or a massive TV deal. it's money taken from the university's academic mission and from students, which is not sustainable, builds resentment, bad press, and show the lack of fans support.


2) There's a MASSIVE disconnect between fan expectations and fan support. A vocal segment of the fan base demands 10-win seasons but the donor and season-ticket support doesn't match that ambition. We want a championship level product, but we aren't collectively funding it. This puts the pressure back on the university to try cover the gap, which they really can't.


3) We are confusing "capital debt" with "operating deficits." Your examples of high debt at schools like Ohio State ($33.7M) and Illinois ($312.5M) are largely for capital projects (stadiums, facilities). That's "good debt" used to build an asset. Our problem is a $41.5 million operating losses. We are spending far more on day to day operations than we bring in. That's "bad debt," like using a credit card that can't pay in full to pay your electric bill.

4) Rutgers' deficit is growing, not stabilizing. The article even says that our deficit "has grown each year," leaving us $139 million in the red over the last five years. While UCLA also has a massive deficit they are now getting a full Big Ten share, and we aren't. We are borrowing from the Big Ten just to stay afloat.

5) We have P4/5 level expectations but are not generating P5-level fan/donor revenue that we need to compete. And even with this huge disadvantage we have managed to make to a bowl 3 out of the last 5 years.

So again, I will put most (not all) of the blame on the fanbase as the main reason why we aren't successful, specifically now in this new NIL area.

 

[RU#1fan]

Love that the Mora hype train is back on track. Guess that loss to Rice was ok. I mean Rice is a 500 team.

They lost to Syracuse ( who had their Stud QB playing} but really won. Got robbed by the Refs. We all have mocked UCONN football. They are legit now. Would not want to play them.

 

[shields]

Rutgers has not lost to Purdue. And yes was Johnny football win.

 

[Anon1751632159]

Rutgers has not lost to Purdue. And yes was Johnny football win.

Rutgers had ball 15 of last 16 mins
Rutgers long drive
Purdue 3 and out
Rutgers ran clock out converting 2-3 4th down runs

 

[MADHAT1]

Sounds like Rutgers.

 

[Knight Shift]

Brohm benefited from being in the B1G west. I think GS 2.0 did play Brohm once. I’m sure we lost by a lot.

In 2021, Brohm beat a then #3 Michigan State (finished at #9) and #2 Iowa (finished at #23).
And in 2020, Covid year, Greg 2.0 beat Purdue, coached by Brohm. Brohm is a much better head coach than Greg. He has been a winner wherever he has coached. In his 5th year at Purdue, he had Purdue at 9-4/6-3 in the B1G and then 8-5/6-3.

Greg is in his 6th year and has yet to produce a winning record in the B1G.

If Greg goes 5-7 or miraculously goes 6-6/3-6 in the B1G, and next year with Maryland, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State, Indiana, Nebraska, USC, and Wisconsin on the schedule does not better than 4-5, at what point would you ask if Greg is ever going to produce a team that can come close to winning in the B1G. There are 5 winnable B1G games on that schedule.

 

[Knight Shift]

Back to the the Chicken (Coaching) or Egg (NIL-Player) debate:

 

[Jtung230]

In 2021, Brohm beat a then #3 Michigan State (finished at #9) and #2 Iowa (finished at #23).
And in 2020, Covid year, Greg 2.0 beat Purdue, coached by Brohm. Brohm is a much better head coach than Greg. He has been a winner wherever he has coached. In his 5th year at Purdue, he had Purdue at 9-4/6-3 in the B1G and then 8-5/6-3.

Greg is in his 6th year and has yet to produce a winning record in the B1G.

If Greg goes 5-7 or miraculously goes 6-6/3-6 in the B1G, and next year with Maryland, Michigan State, Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State, Indiana, Nebraska, USC, and Wisconsin on the schedule does not better than 4-5, at what point would you ask if Greg is ever going to produce a team that can come close to winning in the B1G. There are 5 winnable B1G games on that schedule.

Again, it was B1G west. When you win the West, you are the 4th best team in the B1G. Now, Indiana with Allen was interesting. He found a QB in Penix Jr. only if they had Cuban’s money to built a team around him. Allen’s career was over when Penix Jr transferred to UW.

 

[Knight Shift]

So again, I will put most (not all) of the blame on the fanbase as the main reason why we aren't successful, specifically now in this new NIL area.

The rest of your post was factual and well-reasoned, but I am puzzled by the last sentence above.

1. Does the fanbase ice the kicker in a 40 mph wind?
2. Does the fanbase hire a 3 times recycled DC when apparently nobody else applied for or would take the job?
3. Is the fanbase to blame for a bloated coaching staff ?

 

[Knight Shift]

Again, it was B1G west. When you win the West, you are the 4th best team in the B1G. Now, Indiana with Allen was interesting. He found a QB in Penix Jr. only if they had Cuban’s money to built a team around him. Allen’s career was over when Penix Jr transferred to UW.

Please read everything posted. You automatically deflect to something else. We were not talking about Indiana in the post your replied to. Brohm beat 2 ranked B1G teams, one of them a B1G East team. When did Greg beat Wisconsin or Iowa from the West? Umm, never. Even this year, with a stud receiving corps and a QB leading the B1G in passing.

 

[Jtung230]

Please read everything posted. You automatically deflect to something else. We were not talking about Indiana in the post your replied to. Brohm beat 2 ranked B1G teams, one of them a B1G East team. When did Greg beat Wisconsin or Iowa from the West? Umm, never. Even this year, with a stud receiving corps and a QB leading the B1G in passing.

GS did not beat UW or Iowa. But he did beat a good coach named Brohm. Does that count as a good win?

 

[Knight Shift]

GS did not beat UW or Iowa. But he did beat a good coach named Brohm. Does that count as a good win?

Not in a covid year. No sense in discussing anything with you. You are playing games. That was a covid year, and Purdue was was dealing with covid issues in November and December, canceling 2 games. But you, like a magician, think you pulled a rabbit out of hat.
The point stands that Brohm is a superior head coach to Schiano, who is at his very best mediocre.
Keep enjoying the 6-6 seasons, on the backs of beating Norfolk State and barely beating MAC teams with 2-3 wins in the B1G each year. Some fans seem to think consistent mediocrity is fine. Others don't.

 

[eddynyse]

The rest of your post was factual and well-reasoned, but I am puzzled by the last sentence above.

1. Does the fanbase ice the kicker in a 40 mph wind?
2. Does the fanbase hire a 3 times recycled DC when apparently nobody else applied for or would take the job?
3. Is the fanbase to blame for a bloated coaching staff ?

Everything else yes (lol) but:
1) no
2) no - but sadly I'm speculating that noone else would take the job in part because of the lack of resources available for talent, and a job with little upside. They should have gone for a young and up and coming DC similarly to the prior DC coach.
3) Explain how is it bloated? i might not understand what you mean, Rutgers pays Schiano $6.25 mil among the lowest in the B10. Likely to be the lowest in the B10 after Bielma, Moore, and Fleck get a potential bump this year.

know it sounds harsh to blame the fanbase for most of our recent issues, but just look at last year's basketball team. We had two 5-star players who went to the NBA as the second and fifth overall picks and are currently significantly contributing to their teams. What is the RU Screw that prevents us from taking a run at the tournament? No. Coaching? no. talent around these two players? YES!. Why didn't we have the talent we needed to make a run at the tournament? No money to get a solid supporting cast. Why didn't we have money because? Rutgers fans are basically at the bottom when it comes to athletics contributions. Basically, RU fans are cheap.

 

[shields]

Still coached in the West Division. The East was a monster.

 

[MADHAT1]

Not in a covid year. No sense in discussing anything with you. You are playing games. That was a covid year, and Purdue was was dealing with covid issues in November and December, canceling 2 games. But you, like a magician, think you pulled a rabbit out of hat.
The point stands that Brohm is a superior head coach to Schiano, who is at his very best mediocre.
Keep enjoying the 6-6 seasons, on the backs of beating Norfolk State and barely beating MAC teams with 2-3 wins in the B1G each year. Some fans seem to think consistent mediocrity is fine. Others don't.

Schiano is a builder that can make terrible programs better , but not a good enough game day coach to head a program that's constantly in the top 25.
As for settling for mediocrity, since Rutgers started playing a major league schedule, that's the best Rutgers has been most years and the ones that weren't were few and far between .
In fact Rutgers Football has had only 2 seasons in it's long football history with double digit wins:
The 11-0 record in 1976 under Frank Burns and Greg's 2006 team that went 11-2 .

Expectations of greatness are hard to have with a record like that and being #3 in the ranks of college football looses by a program.
If the Gods are not against Rutgers they are doing a fine job in ignoring it's pleas for a winner to come and make the Football program stand alongside the giants .
The gods just laugh and brought in the NY Giants to stand by Rutgers.
It could be worse ,they could have sent the Jets

 

[RUTGERS95]

lol East vs West.... Greg doesn't compete in either so it's not relevant to us. Greg couldn't win the BE, it took a 500k coach that was running the Oline to do that

 

[Knight Shift]

Everything else yes (lol) but:
1) no
2) no - but sadly I'm speculating that noone else would take the job in part because of the lack of resources available for talent, and a job with little upside. They should have gone for a young and up and coming DC similarly to the prior DC coach.
3) Explain how is it bloated? i might not understand what you mean, Rutgers pays Schiano $6.25 mil among the lowest in the B10. Likely to be the lowest in the B10 after Bielma, Moore, and Fleck get a potential bump this year.

know it sounds harsh to blame the fanbase for most of our recent issues, but just look at last year's basketball team. We had two 5-star players who went to the NBA as the second and fifth overall picks and are currently significantly contributing to their teams. What is the RU Screw that prevents us from taking a run at the tournament? No. Coaching? no. talent around these two players? YES!. Why didn't we have the talent we needed to make a run at the tournament? No money to get a solid supporting cast. Why didn't we have money because? Rutgers fans are basically at the bottom when it comes to athletics contributions. Basically, RU fans are cheap.

Will respectfully agree with you that blaming the fanbase is harsh, and IMO, it is also wrong.
1)- we agree on icing the kicker
2) Disagree with you here. Fairly or unfairly, there is a reasonable feeling int the air that coordinators would not want to work for Greg because of his reputation as a micromanager. Lack of resources, IMO, is a false flag. Greg is paying $2M/year for KC as the OC. He had money for the DC, and he had NIL money $450K for Jett Elad (in court records).
3) There are posts in other threads that detail Rutgers football spending as being 6th in the B1G. Greg has a large number of assistant coaches compared to peers-math and comparisons were done in other threads. Money could be saved there and used for other the purported lack of other resources. Money is not being spent wisely.

As always on these message boards, there may not be an absolute "wrong" or "right" when people disagree.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Schiano is a builder that can make terrible programs better , but not a good enough game day coach to head a program that's constantly in the top 25.
As for settling for mediocrity, since Rutgers started playing a major league schedule, that's the best Rutgers has been most years and the ones that weren't were few and far between .
In fact Rutgers Football has had only 2 seasons in it's long football history with double digit wins:
The 11-0 record in 1976 under Frank Burns and Greg's 2006 team that went 11-2 .

Expectations of greatness are hard to have with a record like that and being #3 in the ranks of college football looses by a program.
If the Gods are not against Rutgers they are doing a fine job in ignoring it's pleas for a winner to come and make the Football program stand alongside the giants .
The gods just laugh and brought in the NY Giants to stand by Rutgers.
It could be worse ,they could have sent the Jets

in all fairness, we didn't have a BE budget until the 2008 season and went cheap on every coaching hire till Greg 2.0. It's hard to compete when you lack the spending and Rutgers was still spending like it was in the Patriot League past the millennium despite playing 'big boy' football for 25+ yrs

 

[RUTGERS95]

Everything else yes (lol) but:
1) no
2) no - but sadly I'm speculating that noone else would take the job in part because of the lack of resources available for talent, and a job with little upside. They should have gone for a young and up and coming DC similarly to the prior DC coach.
3) Explain how is it bloated? i might not understand what you mean, Rutgers pays Schiano $6.25 mil among the lowest in the B10. Likely to be the lowest in the B10 after Bielma, Moore, and Fleck get a potential bump this year.

know it sounds harsh to blame the fanbase for most of our recent issues, but just look at last year's basketball team. We had two 5-star players who went to the NBA as the second and fifth overall picks and are currently significantly contributing to their teams. What is the RU Screw that prevents us from taking a run at the tournament? No. Coaching? no. talent around these two players? YES!. Why didn't we have the talent we needed to make a run at the tournament? No money to get a solid supporting cast. Why didn't we have money because? Rutgers fans are basically at the bottom when it comes to athletics contributions. Basically, RU fans are cheap.

2,because of Greg, not resources
3.are you for real? we have the highest number on staff and support positions in all of the P4 including his 3 idiot sons

 

[RU Jeep]

Maryland is probably tied with Rutgers as the most unattractive football HC job.

True but I’d throw a couple others up there too like Duke, NC State… Actually that’s probably the full list

 

[Jtung230]

Not in a covid year. No sense in discussing anything with you. You are playing games. That was a covid year, and Purdue was was dealing with covid issues in November and December, canceling 2 games. But you, like a magician, think you pulled a rabbit out of hat.
The point stands that Brohm is a superior head coach to Schiano, who is at his very best mediocre.
Keep enjoying the 6-6 seasons, on the backs of beating Norfolk State and barely beating MAC teams with 2-3 wins in the B1G each year. Some fans seem to think consistent mediocrity is fine. Others don't.

I see your COVID excuse and raise you with post Chris Ash era. I do enjoy the 6-6 seasons. Much better than the Chris Ash experience. I’m not donating additional money to NIL. I’m a casual fan. Love the tailgate and games are entertaining. At least the ones that are not against the blue bloods.

 

[50 yd line RR]

Defenders of Greg and the status quo ignore context and forget Greg 2.0 has not beaten a team better than Rutgers and choose to deflect awith field houses, NIL and other resources that are lacking.

I don’t consider myself a defender of Greg. I will say though in my lifetime I have seen 3 pretty good coaches let go because we had an admin either unwilling or unknowing how to provide the tools needed to compete.
Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber.
Any or all three could have stayed and the results really would not have been much different, ( maybe better).
I also saw two terrible fits (Shea annd Ash) and one pretty good coach who just wasn’t ready for prime time (KF).
There is nothing in the fiber of my being that tells me Rutgers is any different today
Yes we have more resources but what is needed in this league is daughting!
That goes from NIL money and facility upgrades to actual fan support.
Not saying we won’t be there. Just saying it’s going to have fo grow organically for a while.
No new coach is coming in here and giving us instant credibility and success.
Not happening!
I’ll take Schiano just give him the tools and see what happens.
When it’s time for him to move on, one way or another, everyone will know.
To me now is not the time.

 

[eddynyse]

2,because of Greg, not resources
3.are you for real? we have the highest number on staff and support positions in all of the P4 including his 3 idiot sons

oh you are talking about the total number of staff members. Who cares about that... what matters is the cost and the cost, i believe, are among the lowest in the B10.

Again, for all I care you we can fire Schiano and everyone else but who is the replacement? We don't have a great track record at selecting coaches (Ash, Flood). We could had Mariano but we wanted him for cheap and he was smart enough to get out of this hot mess of a program and is much better for it. On top of not having a great track record, we don't have the money because we are, collectively, too cheap of a fanbase.

 

[RUTGERS95]

I don’t consider myself a defender of Greg. I will say though in my lifetime I have seen 3 pretty good coaches let go because we had an admin either unwilling or unknowing how to provide the tools needed to compete.
Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber.
Any or all three could have stayed and the results really would not have been much different, ( maybe better).
I also saw two terrible fits (Shea annd Ash) and one pretty good coach who just wasn’t ready for prime time (KF).
There is nothing in the fiber of my being that tells me Rutgers is any different today
Yes we have more resources but what is needed in this league is daughting!
That goes from NIL money and facility upgrades to actual fan support.
Not saying we won’t be there. Just saying it’s going to have fo grow organically for a while.
No new coach is coming in here and giving us instant credibility and success.
Not happening!
I’ll take Schiano just give him the tools and see what happens.
When it’s time for him to move on, one way or another, everyone will know.
To me now is not the time.

if Doug Graber came back and had the resources Greg has had, he'd have a statue on College Ave right now!

 

[Knight Shift]

I don’t consider myself a defender of Greg. I will say though in my lifetime I have seen 3 pretty good coaches let go because we had an admin either unwilling or unknowing how to provide the tools needed to compete.
Frank Burns, Dick Anderson and Doug Graber.
Any or all three could have stayed and the results really would not have been much different, ( maybe better).
I also saw two terrible fits (Shea annd Ash) and one pretty good coach who just wasn’t ready for prime time (KF).
There is nothing in the fiber of my being that tells me Rutgers is any different today
Yes we have more resources but what is needed in this league is daughting!
That goes from NIL money and facility upgrades to actual fan support.
Not saying we won’t be there. Just saying it’s going to have fo grow organically for a while.
No new coach is coming in here and giving us instant credibility and success.
Not happening!
I’ll take Schiano just give him the tools and see what happens.
When it’s time for him to move on, one way or another, everyone will know.
To me now is not the time.

I was with you until you went with "No new coach is coming in here. . . . "
We can agree to disagree on giving Schiano the tools.

oh you are talking about the total number of staff members. Who cares about that... what matters is the cost and the cost, i believe, are among the lowest in the B10.

Again, for all I care you we can fire Schiano and everyone else but who is the replacement? We don't have a great track record at selecting coaches (Ash, Flood). We could had Mariano but we wanted him for cheap and he was smart enough to get out of this hot mess of a program and is much better for it. On top of not having a great track record, we don't have the money because we are, collectively, too cheap of a fanbase.

Who cares about the total number of staff members? People should care! This shows an ability to manage the resources provided. The staff is way overbloated, and respectfully, when the average fan making many multiples less than what Greg makes sees him squandering money on Robb Smith and too many coaches, when Indiana has less than half the number of coaches, and Greg's 3 sons on the payroll, it is fair for the average fan to decide that they are not going to throw money into a folly.

 

[RUGuitarMan1]

Schiano is a builder that can make terrible programs better , but not a good enough game day coach to head a program that's constantly in the top 25.
As for settling for mediocrity, since Rutgers started playing a major league schedule, that's the best Rutgers has been most years and the ones that weren't were few and far between .
In fact Rutgers Football has had only 2 seasons in it's long football history with double digit wins:
The 11-0 record in 1976 under Frank Burns and Greg's 2006 team that went 11-2 .

Expectations of greatness are hard to have with a record like that and being #3 in the ranks of college football looses by a program.
If the Gods are not against Rutgers they are doing a fine job in ignoring it's pleas for a winner to come and make the Football program stand alongside the giants .
The gods just laugh and brought in the NY Giants to stand by Rutgers.
It could be worse ,they could have sent the Jets

Well being an RU alum and a lifelong NY Jet fan, I’ve become somewhat numb to bad football. I was 10 years old watching Super Bowl 3 and the upset of the 20th century imo. I was an 18 year old freshman when RU’s football team went 11-0. There’s been a lot of down football years. In this new world of college football, I want RU to become a “winning program”. I don’t expect conference or national championships. This is not a well coached RU football team on defense. That goes on the coaching staff and GS. I do think the guy has been good for RU to say the least. I don’t think RU would be in the B1G without GS and Bob M. Eventually GS will be replaced, the decision makers better get it right, we’ve seen the other side of it.

 

[scarletrat99]

We all should want MD to extend Mike L...clearly a coach worse than Schiano. Likely the lone one in B1G.

 

[Jtung230]

We all should want MD to extend Mike L...clearly a coach worse than Schiano. Likely the lone one in B1G.

Funny we couldn’t beat them when Tagovailoa was there.

 

[shields]

Because he was much better than our QB.

 

[MADHAT1]

Well being an RU alum and a lifelong NY Jet fan, I’ve become somewhat numb to bad football. I was 10 years old watching Super Bowl 3 and the upset of the 20th century imo. I was an 18 year old freshman when RU’s football team went 11-0. There’s been a lot of down football years. In this new world of college football, I want RU to become a “winning program”. I don’t expect conference or national championships. This is not a well coached RU football team on defense. That goes on the coaching staff and GS. I do think the guy has been good for RU to say the least. I don’t think RU would be in the B1G without GS and Bob M. Eventually GS will be replaced, the decision makers better get it right, we’ve seen the other side of it.

Agree without G1 and Bob M RU might be like UConn, an AAC member or at best in the ACC .
Both did what it takes to make Rutgers football a respected program.
Greg is a builder and Bob gave him the tools.
Schiano bashing is a product of what he built .
Before he came, fans expectations were mainly the hope of having a winning season and/or not losing so badly
worrying about a season with just 0 or 4 Wins when the season ends.
Greg made the fanbase feel Rutgers was National Championship material most of the 2006 season and he's suffering the fate of RU fans disappointment that he has never come close to being in the NC running and now an after thought come playoff time.
Schiano has turned Rutgers into a program many feel can be as good as the best, from one that was laughed at .
Both times Oreg shown up expectations rose, but Schiano's coaching never has made a dent in the quest of even being considered a pre season top 25 team.
Greg Schiano has done wonders for the program, but he seems to lack what it takes to make RU elite and that's the real knock on him in my book.
Fighting for the middle isn't what the RU Fanbase will accept anymore , its be among the best or get out.
Greg made that so and now he's being bashed because he raised our expectations from hoping not to lose into expecting to win and compete with the best .
I thank him for that, I'm just sorry I don't feel Greg is a good enough game day coach to put RU FB in the Elite status and he's the one that has given me the expectations Rutgers can be elite .
But I will say he was what Rutgers needed at the time, both times he was hired

 

[RU#1fan]

Everything else yes (lol) but:
1) no
2) no - but sadly I'm speculating that noone else would take the job in part because of the lack of resources available for talent, and a job with little upside. They should have gone for a young and up and coming DC similarly to the prior DC coach.
3) Explain how is it bloated? i might not understand what you mean, Rutgers pays Schiano $6.25 mil among the lowest in the B10. Likely to be the lowest in the B10 after Bielma, Moore, and Fleck get a potential bump this year.

know it sounds harsh to blame the fanbase for most of our recent issues, but just look at last year's basketball team. We had two 5-star players who went to the NBA as the second and fifth overall picks and are currently significantly contributing to their teams. What is the RU Screw that prevents us from taking a run at the tournament? No. Coaching? no. talent around these two players? YES!. Why didn't we have the talent we needed to make a run at the tournament? No money to get a solid supporting cast. Why didn't we have money because? Rutgers fans are basically at the bottom when it comes to athletics contributions. Basically, RU fans are cheap.

3. Greg Schiano is the 13th highest paid Coach in the B1G at $6.5 million. The Football Operations budget at RU increased by 30% from a year ago. The Staff Salaries at RU are higher than Nebraska, Minnesota, Maryland, Wisconsin, etc.
Bloated vs. the results? Absolutely
Greg has only had one 4 win season in the B1G in Six seasons.
Some question if he can ever bring us to the top of the B1G. LMAO
He has yet to bring us to a mid level B1G program and never will.

 

[50 yd line RR]

Agree without G1 and Bob M RU might be like UConn, an AAC member or at best in the ACC .
Both did what it takes to make Rutgers football a respected program.
Greg is a builder and Bob gave him the tools.
Schiano bashing is a product of what he built .
Before he came, fans expectations were mainly the hope of having a winning season and/or not losing so badly
worrying about a season with just 0 or 4 Wins when the season ends.
Greg made the fanbase feel Rutgers was National Championship material most of the 2006 season and he's suffering the fate of RU fans disappointment that he has never come close to being in the NC running and now an after thought come playoff time.
Schiano has turned Rutgers into a program many feel can be as good as the best, from one that was laughed at .
Both times Oreg shown up expectations rose, but Schiano's coaching never has made a dent in the quest of even being considered a pre season top 25 team.
Greg Schiano has done wonders for the program, but he seems to lack what it takes to make RU elite and that's the real knock on him in my book.
Fighting for the middle isn't what the RU Fanbase will accept anymore , its be among the best or get out.
Greg made that so and now he's being bashed because he raised our expectations from hoping not to lose into expecting to win and compete with the best .
I thank him for that, I'm just sorry I don't feel Greg is a good enough game day coach to put RU FB in the Elite status and he's the one that has given me the expectations Rutgers can be elite .
But I will say he was what Rutgers needed at the time, both times he was hired

I have a question for this board. What has Rutgers done to deserve a winner?
Our fan base is solid but small. We can’t even fill our 54k stadium.
Other schools have a long history of success and a huge fan base. Nebraska has been mediocre at best since they entered the BIG. Yet they sell out a 91 k stadium for every home game.
My point is: Even after 40 plus years as a season ticket holder I have no sense of entitlement. I go to the games hoping we catch lightning in a bottle again like 2006 and the program takes the next step to being a program the state of NJ takes pride in and stands behind.
Until then I ask, what makes RU fans think that we will ever be anything more than a middle of the pack Big Ten Team?
What factor is going to help us turn the corner?
I

 

[eddynyse]

I was with you until you went with "No new coach is coming in here. . . . "
We can agree to disagree on giving Schiano the tools.


Who cares about the total number of staff members? People should care! This shows an ability to manage the resources provided. The staff is way overbloated, and respectfully, when the average fan making many multiples less than what Greg makes sees him squandering money on Robb Smith and too many coaches, when Indiana has less than half the number of coaches, and Greg's 3 sons on the payroll, it is fair for the average fan to decide that they are not going to throw money into a folly.

So below i shared data on coaches and staff by team, as well as salaries of assistant coaches. But first a few points.


1) Indian doesn't have less than half the coaches Rutgers has. But not surprised by someone making up numbers to try to win an argument.

2) RU has 3 to 4 more coaches than other teams. Something that Schiano should be questioned about, but not the end of the world. But, the ideal thing would be to reduce the number to 11-12 and use the money for the school NIL fund.

3) The real problem is the lack of financial support.Like in any other business, and college football has been a business for some time, cash is oxygen and without it or not enough, the entity either dies or doesn't operate well. If this doesn't change, success is unlikely to come. This is the key part missing. We have the budget for coaches, which we didn't have before. Now we just need NIL funds but sadly RU fanbase ca get around to just contribute to the NIL fund...

4) It sounds like you guys just hate Schiano. It sounds personal, and you guys just want a change for the sake of having a change, which is irresponsible, reckless, and wasteful since it would cost $10s millions to end Schiano and his staff contract early. I personally don't care who is the coach.I just want this team to be successful so we can enjoy the games


The data i mentioned:

Team Primary Coaches & Total Football Staff
Illinois 11: 35+
Indiana 11; 40+
Iowa 11 ; 30+
Maryland 12 ; 40+
Michigan 11 ; 45+
Michigan State 12 l; 40+
Minnesota 13 ; 45+
Nebraska 14 ; 45+
Northwestern 12 ; 40+
Ohio State 12+ ; 50+
Oregon 11 ; 50+
Penn State 12 ; 45+
Purdue 11 ; 40+
Rutgers 15 ; 45+
UCLA 12; 35+
USC 13 ; 50+
Washington 11; 45+
Wisconsin 12 ; 40+

Rank University Total Assistant Coach Pay in 2024 (I'm sure Indiana, IL, Minnesota, will be ahead of RU by the end of this year which puts RU basically towards the bottom of the pack.)
1. Ohio State $11,425,000
2. Michigan $9,384,000
3. Oregon $8,295,000
4. Iowa $7,900,000
5. Washington $7,200,000
6. Michigan State $6,975,000
7. Nebraska $6,775,000
8. Indiana $5,935,000
9. Rutgers $5,750,000
10. Maryland $5,475,000
11. Wisconsin $5,375,000
12. Illinois $5,325,000
13. Purdue $4,965,000
14. UCLA $4,670,000
15. Minnesota $4,599,000
- Penn State Not Publicly Disclosed
- USC Not Publicly Disclosed
- Northwestern Not Publicly Disclosed

 

[Knight Shift]

So below i shared data on coaches and staff by team, as well as salaries of assistant coaches. But first a few points.


1) Indian doesn't have less than half the coaches Rutgers has. But not surprised by someone making up numbers to try to win an argument.

2) RU has 3 to 4 more coaches than other teams. Something that Schiano should be questioned about, but not the end of the world. But, the ideal thing would be to reduce the number to 11-12 and use the money for the school NIL fund.

3) The real problem is the lack of financial support.Like in any other business, and college football has been a business for some time, cash is oxygen and without it or not enough, the entity either dies or doesn't operate well. If this doesn't change, success is unlikely to come. This is the key part missing. We have the budget for coaches, which we didn't have before. Now we just need NIL funds but sadly RU fanbase ca get around to just contribute to the NIL fund...

4) It sounds like you guys just hate Schiano. It sounds personal, and you guys just want a change for the sake of having a change, which is irresponsible, reckless, and wasteful since it would cost $10s millions to end Schiano and his staff contract early. I personally don't care who is the coach.I just want this team to be successful so we can enjoy the games


The data i mentioned:

Team Primary Coaches & Total Football Staff
Illinois 11: 35+
Indiana 11; 40+
Iowa 11 ; 30+
Maryland 12 ; 40+
Michigan 11 ; 45+
Michigan State 12 l; 40+
Minnesota 13 ; 45+
Nebraska 14 ; 45+
Northwestern 12 ; 40+
Ohio State 12+ ; 50+
Oregon 11 ; 50+
Penn State 12 ; 45+
Purdue 11 ; 40+
Rutgers 15 ; 45+
UCLA 12; 35+
USC 13 ; 50+
Washington 11; 45+
Wisconsin 12 ; 40+

Rank University Total Assistant Coach Pay in 2024 (I'm sure Indiana, IL, Minnesota, will be ahead of RU by the end of this year which puts RU basically towards the bottom of the pack.)
1. Ohio State $11,425,000
2. Michigan $9,384,000
3. Oregon $8,295,000
4. Iowa $7,900,000
5. Washington $7,200,000
6. Michigan State $6,975,000
7. Nebraska $6,775,000
8. Indiana $5,935,000
9. Rutgers $5,750,000
10. Maryland $5,475,000
11. Wisconsin $5,375,000
12. Illinois $5,325,000
13. Purdue $4,965,000
14. UCLA $4,670,000
15. Minnesota $4,599,000
- Penn State Not Publicly Disclosed
- USC Not Publicly Disclosed
- Northwestern Not Publicly Disclosed

I'm going to start with #4. No you are absolutely wrong when it comes to me. Hate? Personal? You have really crossed a line here and are reaching. I can't hate somebody I don't know. I have interacted with Greg a few times, and I have found that is extremely likable. Ash was a different story, but hate- nah, just thought the guy was a coarse jerk who alienated people. That's not Greg. He's a very nice man and carries himself very professionally and positively. How dare you!

I'm not going to go through every single example, but I can tell your numbers are off for Indiana.
Indiana: 12 coaches and 35 support staff.

2026 Football Coaches - Indiana University Athletics

The official Football Coach List for the Indiana University Hoosiers

iuhoosiers.com

You said- "I'm sure Indiana, IL, Minnesota, will be ahead of RU by the end of this year which puts RU basically towards the bottom of the pack.)"
Really- sounds like you don't have a leg to stand on and you are reaching again. How can you be so sure?
I can tell you one thing for sure- Kirk C is making a LOT more money this year Kirk Ciarrocca's salary for the 2025 season is $1.9 million, and he will make $2M in 2027. So, please save your "I'm sure...... .other teams will pay more, leaving Rutgers at the bottom of the pack. " That's a bunch of malarkey.

So Rutger is paying more than Minnesota, Illinois, UCLA, and Wisconsin, and we have been beaten by all four of those teams. Sounds like we are paying more for less results


Rutgers: 13 coaches and 88 support staff
That's an additional 53 support staff. Let's just assume, aiming low, the total compensation package for each assistant (salary, bonus, benefits, etc) is $100,000. That's $5,300,000 in additional money spent on support staff. Seems your argument has fallen apart on just coaches salaries alone.

And please, do us a favor- don't intimate any bad intentions or feelings that you "think" are there. This is a business, and when executives get paid enormous sums of money, it is fair for the shareholders (in this case fans) to expect results.

 

[rutgersguy2]

Rutgers overall giving in 2024 was $256 mil, and 95% of that was not for athletics. Also, RU has 33k donors in 2024 compare to William & Mary at 30k, Purdue at 85k and Penn State at 235k.

Institution FY2024 Booster Contributions (Millions)
Big Ten High Range $77.1
Big Ten Average $42.7
Big Ten Low Range $11.4
Rutgers University $8.5 ( we are at the bottom of the b10 and most of P5 programs.)


A few additional points about your post:

1) The "money is money" argument is flawed because the source matters. The article itself shows a clear difference between self supporting programs (Michigan, OSU, Penn State) and subsidized ones. Our "money" includes over $21 million in student fees and direct university support. That's not revenue from a packed stadium or a massive TV deal. it's money taken from the university's academic mission and from students, which is not sustainable, builds resentment, bad press, and show the lack of fans support.

Thank you for the numbers. Where did you get them for all the schools? AI? Database?

As far as where the money comes from:

1. I don't see it as flawed because that is the reality and this school will have operating deficits which the school will cover. If the Athletic Department is the front porch and marketing arm of the school and if it continues to be seen as such by presidents and the board I don't expect any change in support as needed. I suppose you can say that's part of the "alignment" thing that often gets brought up. If the AD is seen as part of the school and not some separate entity then I don't expect any change in support within reason.

You say it's not sustainable (which part of me wants to agree with) but I can't remember a time at least in the last 20 years, probably longer where there wasn't some sort of deficit with the AD. On some level, that's just the "model" here. It might not be ideal but that's the way it is and likely will be unless a lot more winning happens or some rich alums or local boosters (imo that's potentially the "heartstring" to tap) want to open their wallets.

How much money did we have when GS got a 2M/yr contract after the big season decades ago which iirc was 16th highest in the country at the time. Or when his contract was boosted from 4M/yr to a 7M/yr average off a bowl game? Or when we swiped 2 coordinators from Minnesota (paid a 450K buyout for KC iirc) and made them one of the higher paid ones at the time? Or increased the football operating budget by 15M from 2023 to 2024? We have no money but somehow it appears to show up when it's really wanted. This isn't even a RU thing, I tend to notice this for many schools. You think no money but when it's really wanted, it appears. If GS or any coach suddenly had a big season, don't you think there'd be a big raise just like we always see? I'd guess yes and again suddenly the money would show up, despite "having none."

So if the school has a 64M dollar football operating budget because of some rich donors or because the schools is supporting the athletic department....I still say money is money regardless of source.

Also as far as the deficits, do we know which sports are contributing the most to it? Is it football? MBB? WBB and the rest? So I'd think the 2 sports with the most profit making potential will still see continued support from the school within reason.

 

[mdk02]

I'm going to start with #4. No you are absolutely wrong when it comes to me. Hate? Personal? You have really crossed a line here and are reaching. I can't hate somebody I don't know. I have interacted with Greg a few times, and I have found that is extremely likable. Ash was a different story, but hate- nah, just thought the guy was a coarse jerk who alienated people. That's not Greg. He's a very nice man and carries himself very professionally and positively. How dare you!

I'm not going to go through every single example, but I can tell your numbers are off for Indiana.
Indiana: 12 coaches and 35 support staff.

2026 Football Coaches - Indiana University Athletics

The official Football Coach List for the Indiana University Hoosiers

iuhoosiers.com

You said- "I'm sure Indiana, IL, Minnesota, will be ahead of RU by the end of this year which puts RU basically towards the bottom of the pack.)"
Really- sounds like you don't have a leg to stand on and you are reaching again. How can you be so sure?
I can tell you one thing for sure- Kirk C is making a LOT more money this year Kirk Ciarrocca's salary for the 2025 season is $1.9 million, and he will make $2M in 2027. So, please save your "I'm sure...... .other teams will pay more, leaving Rutgers at the bottom of the pack. " That's a bunch of malarkey.

So Rutger is paying more than Minnesota, Illinois, UCLA, and Wisconsin, and we have been beaten by all four of those teams. Sounds like we are paying more for less results


Rutgers: 13 coaches and 88 support staff
That's an additional 53 support staff. Let's just assume, aiming low, the total compensation package for each assistant (salary, bonus, benefits, etc) is $100,000. That's $5,300,000 in additional money spent on support staff. Seems your argument has fallen apart on just coaches salaries alone.

And please, do us a favor- don't intimate any bad intentions or feelings that you "think" are there. This is a business, and when executives get paid enormous sums of money, it is fair for the shareholders (in this case fans) to expect results.

Question: Do all 53 of the support staff work full time and 100% football related?

 

[Knight Shift]

Question: Do all 53 of the support staff work full time and 100% football related?

IDK, and perhaps, if not, that creates a perception problem. Or, perhaps, everyone listed under support staff are "chargeable" to football? If the former, that should be corrected, because it does not look good for the head coach to be asking for more "resources" when it at least appears football has a lot of resources in terms of personnel. And for salaries of the HC and coordinators. Just wondering why someone thinks there are not enough "resources." Perhaps the allocation of resources needs a look.

 

[RU#1fan]

I have a question for this board. What has Rutgers done to deserve a winner?
Our fan base is solid but small. We can’t even fill our 54k stadium.
Other schools have a long history of success and a huge fan base. Nebraska has been mediocre at best since they entered the BIG. Yet they sell out a 91 k stadium for every home game.
My point is: Even after 40 plus years as a season ticket holder I have no sense of entitlement. I go to the games hoping we catch lightning in a bottle again like 2006 and the program takes the next step to being a program the state of NJ takes pride in and stands behind.
Until then I ask, what makes RU fans think that we will ever be anything more than a middle of the pack Big Ten Team?
What factor is going to help us turn the corner?
I

Valid points.
Nebraska is the only game in town in the Omaha-Lincoln market. This market has over 1.4 million in population and is growing.
In our NY/NJ Metropolitan market there are something like 17 Professional Sports teams in addition to RU Sports. A lot more competition for the Fan’s spending. Also winning 5 National Championships in the 70’s and 90’s certainly helped build Nebraska’s fanbase.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Rutgers overall giving in 2024 was $256 mil, and 95% of that was not for athletics. Also, RU has 33k donors in 2024 compare to William & Mary at 30k, Purdue at 85k and Penn State at 235k.

Institution FY2024 Booster Contributions (Millions)
Big Ten High Range $77.1
Big Ten Average $42.7
Big Ten Low Range $11.4
Rutgers University $8.5 ( we are at the bottom of the b10 and most of P5 programs.)


A few additional points about your post:

1) The "money is money" argument is flawed because the source matters. The article itself shows a clear difference between self supporting programs (Michigan, OSU, Penn State) and subsidized ones. Our "money" includes over $21 million in student fees and direct university support. That's not revenue from a packed stadium or a massive TV deal. it's money taken from the university's academic mission and from students, which is not sustainable, builds resentment, bad press, and show the lack of fans support.


2) There's a MASSIVE disconnect between fan expectations and fan support. A vocal segment of the fan base demands 10-win seasons but the donor and season-ticket support doesn't match that ambition. We want a championship level product, but we aren't collectively funding it. This puts the pressure back on the university to try cover the gap, which they really can't.


3) We are confusing "capital debt" with "operating deficits." Your examples of high debt at schools like Ohio State ($33.7M) and Illinois ($312.5M) are largely for capital projects (stadiums, facilities). That's "good debt" used to build an asset. Our problem is a $41.5 million operating losses. We are spending far more on day to day operations than we bring in. That's "bad debt," like using a credit card that can't pay in full to pay your electric bill.

4) Rutgers' deficit is growing, not stabilizing. The article even says that our deficit "has grown each year," leaving us $139 million in the red over the last five years. While UCLA also has a massive deficit they are now getting a full Big Ten share, and we aren't. We are borrowing from the Big Ten just to stay afloat.

5) We have P4/5 level expectations but are not generating P5-level fan/donor revenue that we need to compete. And even with this huge disadvantage we have managed to make to a bowl 3 out of the last 5 years.

So again, I will put most (not all) of the blame on the fanbase as the main reason why we aren't successful, specifically now in this new NIL area.

The fanbase can't be blamed for the mediocrity in the last 2 seasons. This team has lost winnable games because of failures in execution, and coaching. Last season, the schedule didn't include any of the B1G heavyweights, yet they still lost 6 games (including the bowl game). There weren't any games where RU was overmatched talentwise. This season so far, there are only 3 games on the schedule where RU is at a significant talent disadvantage. NIL and resources to pay players will certainly be the issue going forward, but it hasn't been the issue in the last 2 seasons.