Paige Bueckers Outplaying CC Article
- Thread starter Hawk_4shur
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I’ve shared my comments elsewhere. To summarize, Bueckers is worthy of high praise IMO. The talent is undeniable.
Both are above-average scorers/shooters. Clark has better range; Bueckers is better mid-range. Both can drive and finish.
Bueckers is a better defender. Both are aggressive rebounders.
What dramatically separates CC and PB is passing talent. The dual threat scoring/ passing combo is exceptional and unique. It is more than enough to make Clark the better player - individually and as value to a team.
…also the writer limits his comparative analysis to this WNBA season in order to make a sweeping conclusion. Everyone knows that Clark has been playing injured for most of this year. I got a real Geno Auriemma vibe from this article.
Both are above-average scorers/shooters. Clark has better range; Bueckers is better mid-range. Both can drive and finish.
Bueckers is a better defender. Both are aggressive rebounders.
What dramatically separates CC and PB is passing talent. The dual threat scoring/ passing combo is exceptional and unique. It is more than enough to make Clark the better player - individually and as value to a team.
…also the writer limits his comparative analysis to this WNBA season in order to make a sweeping conclusion. Everyone knows that Clark has been playing injured for most of this year. I got a real Geno Auriemma vibe from this article.
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Clark has been injured the entire season, invalidate comparison.
jesus, the drama in this league is ridiculous. It's always something. Well, except great basketball in a well-run and well-officiated league.
Paige's complete OVERALL game- factoring in shooting percentage, turnovers, mid-range game, etc. Is better than Caitlin's. it only takes a few games watching Paige at this level to see it. What makes Caitlin a unicorn is her deep threes (at a low percentage) and her insane passing ability. Other than that, Paige gets the nod. Caitlin's passing is SO important though that it makes up (to some degree) for her lack in other areas.
The other big separation between the two is turnovers. Paige is outstanding at this and Caitlin, well.... not so much.
Where is the drama in this article? Player comparisons yield wildly different opinions. This has been happening in competitive sports since their inception. Nothing at all dramatic about that.
I would like to see how well Paige plays if she was treated with the same abuse Caitlin received last year.
Knocked to the floor, elbows to the face and grabbing her arms as she dribbled.
Can't be compared unless she was treated the same way.
Knocked to the floor, elbows to the face and grabbing her arms as she dribbled.
Can't be compared unless she was treated the same way.
The counter-argument to the turnover ratio is Clark’s fast/aggressive style of play and the level of risk taken. Some passes are sloppy. Just as many or more are precision darts, some from half or 3/4 court distance. Bueckers pace is much more deliberate …in the style of UCONN.
In addition, there is a case to be made that Clark’s WNBA teammates have not adequately adjusted. Many excellent scoring passes have been mishandled or the teammate has failed to finish an easy score.
No mention of injury at all and games missed, either. I s--t canned click-bait Athlon a long time ago.
Soon wnba players will be stating in public it’s dumb to watch Clark play.
women hate each other
women hate each other
Bueckers does get double teams but I agree, the level of defensive intensity game planned for PB is not close to what CC has dealt with so far. Cunningham kind of opened a window into how opponents view CC (at least at Phoenix) and the imperative to stop her. To be fair, I’m sure Paige gets a little bit of this also but it’s mostly the rookie treatment…. without the vitriol.
This is correct above. Paige hasn't even come close to what CC has dealt with in the girls league and she won't.
Let’s wait till the season is over and compare Paige’s stats with Claks last year stats.
Did the story factor in how many fans line up to watch one player when she comes to town vs the other?
The author:
substack.com
Don’t waste your outrage.
Jonah Kubicek | Substack
Jonah Kubicek has been covering the NBA since 2022, and has written for FanSided, SI, Athlon, NBA Analysis, and GiveMeSport. He believes that the NBA is the best league in the world, but worries that leading voices in the space don’t agree.
substack.com
Don’t waste your outrage.
Dumb take. Comparing Paige to this years Caitlin is . . . well . . . dumb. Second, the WNBA did not anoint her the face of the league. She was an international superstar before she stepped on the court in the W. In fact, she was not welcomed into the league at all. The league tried to give her a rude awakening.
Paige, like A'ja and Nepheesa, plays a normal, we've seen it before, game of basketball at an extraordinary level. Caitlin plays an extraordinary, not seen before, game of basketball at a normal level. Big difference.
Paige, like A'ja and Nepheesa, plays a normal, we've seen it before, game of basketball at an extraordinary level. Caitlin plays an extraordinary, not seen before, game of basketball at a normal level. Big difference.
Nailed it.
And there is no comparison to be made between CC and anyone else. Period. CC is a unique talent who can do it all. Others may rebound or score or whatever, but no one can play the entire game the way CC does. That was clear in college. That was clear last year when CC was just a rookie.
This league is horrible. The only thing giving it any legitimacy is CC. People can make up whatever the hell they want, just like they do in politics these days, but that doesn't alter the truth. It doesn't change the facts. I wouldn't walk across the street if you paid me $1,000 to watch any women's basketball player other than Caitlin Clark. There's CC and then there's everybody else.
There should be 2 turnover categories for Caitlin, as you so note - the ones she unquestionably commits and the ones attributed to her because of her teammates inability to handle a pass or other such failures.
Probably doesn't have anything to do with CC playing only 9 games does it?
I'm sure it has nothing to do with CC getting mobbed for steals and nothing gets called.
Paige doesn't draw nearly the same attention that Clark does and particularly did as a rookie.
At one point in the season last year, I believe by the all-star break, Caitlin Clark had faced more double teams/blitz defense than every other team.....................combined (yes).
I don't want to hear a single person argue with me that they're guarded the same way.
Stop this nonsense.
Paige's passing ability is just as good as CC's.
Should there be 2 assist categories as well?
1 for legit assists and another for simply passing the ball to the person who ends up scoring?
That claim is patently ridiculous. Teams aren’t double teamed, players are. Certain players like Wilson, Stewart, Collier, Thomas, Gray, and many others are frequently double teamed. Double team traps on ball handlers are common.
Furthermore, insinuating that Bueckers does not exhibit exceptional bb talent is Geno Auriemma in reverse - denial based on blind loyalty and bias.
No one here (or anywhere else as far as I can tell) has claimed that Bueckers is being guarded like Clark has been defended I.e. with the same intensity.
Comparison and debates is what drives up interest (views) and value of the league.
He's not wrong...there was a time last year when CC had faced more doubles/ blitzes than many entire teams had faced.
Disagree with this. I will stipulate that assist totals are not the sole criteria for determining passing ability but it is a primary factor IMO. Here, Clark easily outperforms Bueckers. Many more Clark passes result in points, it’s not really close.
Efficiency, turnover ratio, should be considered. Here, Bueckers is statistically better.
However, when considering ATR you can’t automatically dismiss or fail to account for the broader range of passes Clark will attempt vs. Bueckers. The number of high risk passes attempted by Clark significantly exceeds those attempted by Bueckers - there is no stat line for that but it can’t be reasonably disputed IMO.
This may be true but his claim is that CC faced more doubles/blitzes than every other WNBA team combined.
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Decision making is a key component in someone's passing ability, to ignore that and somehow make it seem better that someone makes poor decisions with the basketball is quite the thought process.
And that's what made the stat all the more ridiculous (and by ridiculous meaning that it was a real thing).
Yes......all the PLAYERS on every team COMBINED......were blitzed less than Caitlin Clark last year, at least up to the All-Star break. That was a real stat.
You're welcome.
Why not. And while we're at it, eliminate the MeBounds as a rebound.
Poor decisions should be balanced against good decisions. An assist is the result of a passer making good decision resulting in points and Clark led the league last year.
To me, this critique of Clark is partially valid but qualified and directly relevant to coaching philosophy and style of play - for which, I acknowledge, there can be legitimate differences of opinion.
It is fairly evident that CC naturally plays fast (requiring quicker decisions) and is both inclined and willing to make high risk passes. Uptempo is her game.
Sloppy passes aside, coaches who employ an uptempo style of play - Lisa Bluder, e.g. - are more tolerant of risks taken by a player like Clark because the overall benefits outweighs the negative. Iowa WBB success with PG Clark proved this. Other coaches - Auriemma, et.al. - would be far less tolerant. She’d sit a lot.
The point is: you would likely significantly reduce Clark’s turnovers in a slower more deliberate offense but by doing so, you take away the aspects of her game that make her great and her team better.
…..and she’s a better passer
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I see you revised your earlier claim of “blitzed and double teamed” to just “blitzed”. Big difference...........................
Yes......all the PLAYERS on every team COMBINED......were blitzed less than Caitlin Clark last year, at least up to the All-Star break. That was a real stat.
…also what precisely are the numbers? and do you have a link to that stat? How many times was CC blitzed before the All-Star game. Did you just make all that up or what?
Exactly. Last year it was CC22 vs Reese, and this year its CC22 (injured lost of the season) to PB. We knew when she was the 1st pick of the draft this was coming....
Should be hockey assists. Record books be damned, they're already diluted.
Nah, it was a clarification rather than a revision because you honestly thought I meant teams were getting double teamed/blitzed (which technically can also be a stat- "teams that see the most double teams/blitz defense") and I felt bad for you for being that obtuse..............
Also, I'm sorry you're bothered by misunderstanding me and are now demanding the stats to prove what I said rather than just taking my word for it..................
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