OT: Another public shooting
- Thread starter SwatX1
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Alumnus *Wait, aren't you a Carolina fan?
Guns: Making Strange Bedfellows Since 1364
lol, nope. MBA actually. Went to UNCW for undergrad. Chose beach over Chapel Hill.AFAM degree?
I only ask because that’s one of my degrees from Duke.
There is a mixture of the "they gonna take arr guns" and the "every one of these situations is an example of needing more gun control" crouds that impede progress in the discussion of gun control. Each side (overall) is more interested in using examples of different events to point out the other side is wrong.
Like when a terrorist drives a car through a croud the gun folks like to say, "see, they're going to kill anyways." And the anti gun people will say, "he would have killed more if he was able to get a gun." Or when a shooter shoots up a night club the anti gun people will say, "wouldn't have happened if he didn't have a gun." And the gun folks will say, "wouldn't have been as bad if a good guy had a gun."
At the end of the day this is a topic that we, as a country, should be able to meet in the middle on. But it won't happen because people are too set in their stubborn *** ways. As someone who definitely identifies closer to conservative than liberal, I must say. The paranoia and misinformation that the NRA instills in people is the biggest roadblock to common sense gun laws. They are by far the most embarrassing aspect of the Republican party. Nobody is coming for your guns. That said, it is tiring to see people from the left make every case about gun control. Most level headed people on the left are not at all calling for the banning of all guns. This particular shooting was carried out using a handgun I believe. So assuming that we are not calling for the banning of handguns, this is not a case that warrants the conversation. Though, the conversation should be had without a case to warrant it.
Like when a terrorist drives a car through a croud the gun folks like to say, "see, they're going to kill anyways." And the anti gun people will say, "he would have killed more if he was able to get a gun." Or when a shooter shoots up a night club the anti gun people will say, "wouldn't have happened if he didn't have a gun." And the gun folks will say, "wouldn't have been as bad if a good guy had a gun."
At the end of the day this is a topic that we, as a country, should be able to meet in the middle on. But it won't happen because people are too set in their stubborn *** ways. As someone who definitely identifies closer to conservative than liberal, I must say. The paranoia and misinformation that the NRA instills in people is the biggest roadblock to common sense gun laws. They are by far the most embarrassing aspect of the Republican party. Nobody is coming for your guns. That said, it is tiring to see people from the left make every case about gun control. Most level headed people on the left are not at all calling for the banning of all guns. This particular shooting was carried out using a handgun I believe. So assuming that we are not calling for the banning of handguns, this is not a case that warrants the conversation. Though, the conversation should be had without a case to warrant it.
These shootings are like home stereos. The source of the bad stuff is the receiver: the poor mental health of folks that goes unnoticed or untreated. The relatively easy access to guns and a culture that romanticizes guns is the amplifier, making the aftermath of severe mental health issues more noticeable. The media coverage, the internet and smart phones are the surround sound speakers, making sure everyone is exposed to the horror and sadness as much as possible. Depending on your own experiences, you might favor one of these three parts as the main issue. It doesn't really matter. All three need to be reworked from the ground up.
My father is clinical therapist. PhD and published here and there. We also grew up with a Remington in the house, so not anti-gun. After Sandy Hook, we were talking about this issue and how to best attack it. I learned from him that ‘at-risk’ kids can be easily identified through some fairly basic screening at a young age. That doesn’t mean all ‘at-risk’ kids will go on to become violent, but may be more predisposed for certain occurrences if exposed to trauma. He went on to say that with fairly standard treatment, these kids can be helped and lead totally normal lives.
The reason it will never happen is A). There just isn’t funding for mental healthcare. The brain is the most important organ in our body, but we don’t really invest commensurate to its importance. B). Our culture is such that almost no parent would accept the diagnosis of an outsider. If mom and dad refuse to accept the truth, there’s not much that can be done. Think about every time this happens, usually people come out with the same statements. He was weird, violent, loner, odd, distant, etc. Thyre almost never surprised. If non-trained laymen see the signs, imagine what highly trained professionals can discover.
a large portion of those are gang and drug related turf wars and not just mass shootings of people which is still wrong though and needs to be handled
Ever been to the Bronx, Queens, Yonkers heck New York New York for that matter they have the Brady Law hows that working out one of the highest illegal arms states. What about Watts, Compton, L.A? They have multiple gun laws in place yet have one of the most illegal arms traffic highways in the United States.
Once again I will leave it at this. No matter what laws you have in place of procedures when it comes to buying or selling firearms if a person wants one bad enough he can circumvent them all together to obtain one.
Im firm believer in the second and it does not have one thing to do with crazy people. You can say what you want but the more gun laws in place the more illegal arms flourish.
Teach, inform but you will never truly stop it. Sorry the fact of the matter is it’s a victim of success story really. Each state controls its gun laws in which federal law can not over ride however with stricter laws not necessarily crime but the profit margin becomes to high.BTW, I didn't listen to the audio, but insane that it was being streamed on Twitch, and you can actually see the red dot dancing over one of the players chest and throat a second before he was killed
@sheyduke as a guy in law enforcement (cop?) what do you see as potential, realistic ways we can reduce shootings in the United States?
I agree a lot of states can do things to help the process but there is just no telling what is going on with a person to secure the fact that this won’t continue to happen.
There is no way to stop mental illness. And if a guy wants to kill people he will, no law, no idea, nothing will stop him. You could 100% outlaw EVERY GUN in the world today, and people will be getting shot to the end of time. Gun haters just can't seem to be able to comprehend this. The bottom line is be a father to your children. Raise them right, teach them the values that last. Teach them right from wrong and to value honesty and human life. Also prepare yourself and your loved ones to react. Situational awareness. No, it's not stupid to practice how to react to a horrible situation. Just my two cents.
Oh look, the first well thought and reasonable post in this thread
Well I hope not.
To insert a pic, you'll need the pics url. For that, it can't be on your computer, it needs to be on a server/website somewhere, and you're just linking to it in this thread. Once you have the url, this tells you how to post it:
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That’s similar to a zip gun saw one fired one time after being made really loud.
Everyone on here has scene one of those neon orange and green cap guns that their child or neighbors kid has played with. It’s completely plastic with the realistic cylinder fold out and you put the circular caps in correct?
Long story short they pulled it off a kid who fit the description of an individual received from a shots fired call and was about to let him go until they looked at the “ cap gun” closer
Thank you for your service. Mad respect to law enforcement.
There is no way to stop terrorism but we throw money at it everyday.
Again your spewing nonsense.
Did you know there’s more homicides in the United States that were commited without guns than with guns?
Your making your argument against yourself.
That link provides very little. Sure, “gun deaths” may be higher in red states as you say, but that’s counting accidental gun deaths. I’m not sure, but if you look at the numbers of homicides and violent crimes accompanied by firearms, I suspect the numbers would look different.
Gah anti-gun people make me sick. You’re idiotic and don’t deserve freedom. Thank God our founding fathers knew more than college professors that indoctrinated weak minded liberals
#NRAStrong
#NRAStrong
Stop reporting the loser's name. The media makes him famous. Don't give him a spotlight. Report on the people that will be missed and heroes that step in and help. Let the coward be forgotten the moment he shoots himself in his stupid face. It infuriates me that after every one of these shootings you see the "what we know about the shooter" articles. Let me sum them all up here and let it be the last one: he was a loser, he was a coward, he probably killed himself, he will not be missed, and anyone thinking about doing what he did will end up the same. Throw his body in an unmarked pit and burn everything he owns and erase all digit fingerprints. Stop making these lunatics famous.
All due respect, pisgha. That is a radical stance equal to that of the far left. Timothy McVeigh had eerily similar views. Just saying.
Unfortunately, this sort of embarrassing drivel is what a lot of debate, regardless of topic and stance, degenerates to today.
And even when its not as bad as the above, so many people are totally dug-in and refuse to even consider where the other party is coming from. Intolerance seems to be at an all-time high.
What is there to consider? Of course we are "dug In' to the Constitution. Let me guess, you have an answer to all this gun violence. Is there even ONE poster here who HONESTLY believes gun laws will stop gun violence? Murder is gonna happen. If God waived his hand over the planet today and erased every gun. All gone. Tomorrow , mass school and club stabbings become the problem. We take all them away. Then what? Ban sticks? Forks? We start eating with our hands? It's not guns brother, its people.
The NRA has become nothing more than a lobby organization for the Republican party. It's embarrassing. Though lobbyists are protected under the first amendment, I wish they weren't. It is propaganda machines like the NRA that create and maintain an unhealthy divide in our country. You may appreciate what they once stood for, but I hope you can acknowledge the cesspool that they have become.
You do have the constitution on your side when it comes to your right to bear arms. But it is not on your side when you say other people don't deserve freedom because they have differences in opinions. That is the kind of rhetoric that represents the unwillingness to work with people on the other side of the aisle. That is why we have the far right and the far left with nothing remotely close to the middle. I am certainly guilty of taking sides, and have a hard time endorsing any policy that the left supports, but I try to stay away from radical views.
Actually, they stay roughly the same.
There are obviously many factors, but check out the states with the highest murder-by-firearms rates. Mostly red states with lax gun laws.
Hey UK, you'd do better if you didnt turn everything into an attack.
Understand there are other people out there, including gun owners and enthusiasts, who will disagree with you about how to handle gun violence in this country, and what appropriate and effective gun legislation looks like.
Also understand that you should provide links and/or research if you want to have a discussion about something.
If you are just interested in attacking people... well, that I can't help with.
Letsgo, you and I have fought more than anyone else here, but I appreciate you calling out that wacko stance.
And yes, Pisgah, that is about as extreme a stance as someone can take. Someone believes there needs to be changes to gun laws, and they are an idiot who doesn't deserve freedom? Jeez... those Sandy Hook parents... what idiots who deserve to not be free!
That's nuts, and the sort of stance that obviously gets in the way of adult discussion.
Nobody... and I mean nobody... thinks that you will ever end all gun violence. That's a strawman.
Nobody said murder is going to stop. It is human nature. Another strawman.
But yes, many people believe that lessening the ability of some people to get guns in certain ways will result in fewer gun deaths.
Common sense dictates that to be true. If you made driving tests much harder, and you had to meet certain criteria to buy a car, there would be fewer driving deaths each year. Guns are tools as well, and if you take some out of circulation, there will be fewer deaths. You can argue that it isn't worth it (the legislation that would exists VS the lives saved) but to argue it would have no impact is just illogical.
And no, it is not a slippery slope to banning forks. That's another strawman. The gun is a tool designed for killing, the most deadly tool man has ever created. It is not the same as the automobile or the knife or the fork.
Anyone with half a brain would take a guy charging them with a knife over a guy wanting to kill them with a gun
I am always amazed by how extreme some people are about guns. And I say this as a guy who owns a lot of them, enjoys shooting them... hell, I've got two within reach of me as I type this. But it seems the most aggressive rhetoric in this thread is coming from one side. That's a shame.
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Excellent post, especially the second half. Mental healthcare isn't sexy, and in a country where healthcare is so tied to money AND with a populace who sometimes has a hard time understanding value beyond a dollar sign, the chances of people being okay with large scale funding for preventative services is slim to none.
And yeah... good luck telling a parent "Your kid has some serious issues, and they need to be evaluated/treated." A LOT of resistance.
Let's set aside the 2nd amendment. I am not a constitutional attorney, nor do I have strong beliefs on gun ownership one way or the other. As I've noted before, I grew up with a gun in the house. I have been kicking around the idea of getting a Sig 228 and a Remmington VersaMax, but have concerns with young children in the house.
What I would like to see is stronger controls for gun ownership, monitoring, and overall regulation. I would like to see stronger mental screening that can identify certain traits which could develop to be problematic.
Yes, I am aware that there are loads of guns out there now which are totally untraceable. I am aware that often, prohibition leads to more rampant abuse (not advocating banning guns). But to ignore the problem and simply say 'gun violence is going to happen, so why bother' does not sit well with me.
We know we have a mental health issue in this country. We know we have a large amount of gun violence relative to other industrialized countries. Why can't we get better?
Yeah, a gun free country is a utopia isn't it? Or is it? Those pesky old knives, baseball bats, scissors, hatpins, toothpicks, crowbars, etc. just seem to get in the way.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/london...york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/
OFC
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/london...york-city-first-time-surging-knife-gun-crime/
OFC
Where on earth did you get THAT?
He said that someone who says "Anyone who thinks we need different gun control laws is an idiot who makes me sick and doesn't deserve to be free" is taking an absolutely extreme stance.
And yes, that is an extreme, extreme stance.
And while I let it go the first time... "you're" not "your"...
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