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OT: Another NJ farm to be seized

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NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
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fsg2 said:
Some folks can't afford outrageous rent, let alone dropping a chunk of money on a ridiculously overpriced starter home.

Things have changed that way since the average poster here was mid 20s.
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Ah but didn't you hear?

Starter homes are really cheap....just look at the Zillow links they provided to them!

Oh wait they provided no proof but then said move to Ocean County.

Don't mind them when they also said Ocean County was a terrible place to live.

And also, don't have children. And don't marry someone unless they earn high wages.

And also, the price of eggs is too high, Rutgers concessions are too costly, but the price of homes? 1M for a shack is entirely reasonable and fair because if a 800k townhome goes up in my town it might bring in the undesirables!
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
69,704
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0
iReC89 said:
Speaking of Tom’s River and housing, what’s up with the town pursuing eminent domain to seize a church to put in some emergency pickle ball courts? Is there anyone who believes this is not about stopping the homeless shelter a church tenant wants to build? Any predictions on how this ends?
Click to expand...

People should move there, apparently. Until they shouldn't....

Odd place.
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
69,704
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Knight Shift said:
IDK about that.
Late 1980's- making $30K/year in my field (engineering). I literally ate Ramen noodles 3 days per week, sharing an apartment for my first year to save $6K to pay back my student loans. And I still saved and banked more money because I was frugal.

IIRC, starter houses could be had for about $110K, and mortgage rates were at about 12%.
At 20% down, 30 year mortgage is about $925/month, or $11,100/year or 37% of gross income, leaving $18,900 for other expenses before taxes.

Engineering students now make about $110K-$130K to start.
Starter home at $600K, $120K down at 6.3% mortgage.
That's $2971/month or $35,652/year, or 32% of gross income of $110K/year, leaving $74,348 for other expenses before taxes.

Plug in a teacher's (or police officer's) salary for late 1980s versus. Around the shore, there were plenty of cent houses available for $70-90,000 in the late 1980s in decent areas.
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Factor in the % of income going to student loans now. Going to be way higher.

Also, not everyone is an engineer, a lot of the higher end salaries there you're talking FAANG now or something similar which is going to be in higher income areas, and often looking for a masters too.

If you're a teacher or cop, the starting salary is going to be way less and thus the purchasing power is going to be way down.

The other thing is you came in at rougher time. Boomers who are sitting on these 1M homes bought them less than 100k in many cases and had strong salaries with no or free college (ex, CUNY and Cal public schools used to be free). Factory workers used to afford homes. Does anyone seriously believe you can do that now? I don't know you could do that in Cumberland county. Everyone is getting effed more. Gen Z worse than us millennials on this. I bought at 3.5% after the crash. Not happening now- and salaries didn't go up commensurately.
 
RobertG

RobertG

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
13,606
13,104
113
Fat Koko said:
New Jersey is the most difficult state to build houses, according to homebuilders.

Ivy Zelman, arguably the best homebuilding analyst in the country, produced a 159 page report called Wonderland that analyzed housing development across the United States.

The reported concluded, "the public builders that operated in New Jersey universally cited it as their most challenging entitlement market, requiring five to seven years to gain approvals." Entitlement refers to having governmental approval to proceed with residential construction on a particular land parcel.

The average entitlement period in major states in months is:

Arizona 26
California 34
Colorado 25
Florida 22
Michigan 15
Nevada 12
New Jersey 72
North Carolina 9
Pennsylvania 42
Texas 14
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about 15 years ago I was talking to a builder who told me that it cost $40,000 before he put a shovel in the the ground. Can't imagine what it cost now.
 
K

kupuna133

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Jul 13, 2015
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NotInRHouse said:
I didn't pick it, and "we're proven"...uh lol

I bought a condo too (with your favorite doorman) but I also have an advanced degree and was fortunate to graduate from the #15 public school in America. I understand that we need nurses, teachers and police and don't feel aggrieved if in a 100 home development 20 units are set aside for them. Why do you?
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But you did. I don’t . But keep grasping.

Remember this conversation?

[IMG alt="NotInRHouse"]https://rivals-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/forums/rutgers/data/avatars/m/3/3270.jpg?1429659164[/IMG]

NotInRHouse​

Legend​

e5fdny said:
It’s what Wall is trying to do now.
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!) that won't change state obligations and 2) they already stopped the Route 18 extension to 34/35/70 pushing traffic onto local roads but I am sure they will find a new way to self own or some other species to feign concern with!

If someone is a teacher or cop in Wall, can they afford to live there? More so than Colts Neck? Sure. But still not great.

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kupuna133

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NotInRHouse said:
Ah. Sorry. I thought you might want to have social security and nurses and doctors for care in old age.

I'll let the public workers know. No children unless they marry a doctor.
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Man your critical thinking skills are lacking. You keep changing the topic and metrics. I hope you are not in a field that requires interaction with others and negotiating.
 
CodyRU

CodyRU

Heisman
Nov 28, 2007
112,785
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i just became aware of this story ( I live is Salem Co. so it wasn't really on my radar). I understand why eminent domain exists, and I understand the argument behind enforcing a certain amount of affordable housing. But its the fact that our state can use eminent domain for this specific reason really makes my blood boil. Eminent domain exists for highways, utilities, and the like, not for this. Shame on our state reps for allowing such a slimy and downright cruel policy to exist.

Why this farm specifically and not any of the properties they sold out to warehouse developers? Is it because the farm brings in minimal tax revenue compared to a warehouse, or is it because they know farmers don't have the same financial ability to fight back? It's not hard to figure out.
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
69,704
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kupuna133 said:
But you did. I don’t . But keep grasping.

Remember this conversation?

[IMG alt="NotInRHouse"]https://rivals-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/forums/rutgers/data/avatars/m/3/3270.jpg?1429659164[/IMG]

NotInRHouse​

Legend​


!) that won't change state obligations and 2) they already stopped the Route 18 extension to 34/35/70 pushing traffic onto local roads but I am sure they will find a new way to self own or some other species to feign concern with!

If someone is a teacher or cop in Wall, can they afford to live there? More so than Colts Neck? Sure. But still not great.

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Report
Click to expand...

So another poster mentioned Wall...and I responded?

I feel burned lol
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
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kupuna133 said:
Man your critical thinking skills are lacking. You keep changing the topic and metrics. I hope you are not in a field that requires interaction with others and negotiating.
Click to expand...

I keep asking how 20 affordable homes in a complex of 100 homes going for 1M or so effects you...and you still haven't answered...
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
69,704
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CodyRU said:
i just became aware of this story ( I live is Salem Co. so it wasn't really on my radar). I understand why eminent domain exists, and I understand the argument behind enforcing a certain amount of affordable housing. But its the fact that our state can use eminent domain for this specific reason really makes my blood boil. Eminent domain exists for highways, utilities, and the like, not for this. Shame on our state reps for allowing such a slimy and downright cruel policy to exist.

Why this farm specifically and not any of the properties they sold out to warehouse developers? Is it because the farm brings in minimal tax revenue compared to a warehouse, or is it because they know farmers don't have the same financial ability to fight back? It's not hard to figure out.
Click to expand...

The SCOTUS allowed this policy to exist, not NJ or any other state. The state can circumscribe the use if they want. Some states don't have eminent domain at all.

 
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kupuna133

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NotInRHouse said:
I keep asking how 20 affordable homes in a complex of 100 homes going for 1M or so effects you...and you still haven't answered...
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It doesn’t. I have said that every time you have asked. It’s eminent domain that bothers me. It’s that you keep changing the metrics. It’s that you think there are no alternatives to living arrangements saving etc… When given the data you dismiss it. You do realize 2 of the 3 professions you keep mentioning wouldn’t qualify for the subsidies you’re advocating? And one would only qualify if they are at the very low end of the income range.



But again if you’re so married to having everyone having access to the lifestyle that you have sacrificed for. Feel free to sell your condo in Jersey City and your second home, that you were looking for in Monmouth county,for exactly what you paid for it to a low/moderate income person.
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

Heisman
Oct 17, 2007
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kupuna133 said:
It doesn’t. I have said that every time you have asked. It’s eminent domain that bothers me. It’s that you keep changing the metrics. It’s that you think there are no alternatives to living arrangements saving etc… When given the data you dismiss it. You do realize 2 of the 3 professions you keep mentioning wouldn’t qualify for the subsidies you’re advocating? And one would only qualify if they are at the very low end of the income range.



But again if you’re so married to having everyone having access to the lifestyle that you have sacrificed for. Feel free to sell your condo in Jersey City and your second home, that you were looking for in Monmouth county,for exactly what you paid for it to a low/moderate income person.
Click to expand...

Ok...so then why are you complaining about Mount Laurel then when it's not the same law as eminent domain?

I didn't say people shouldn't save. I said it's narrow minded to insist that everyone can do so. You and I don't know everyone's circumstances. I know empathy is frowned upon in some quarters these days.

Your link says page not found. Income limits would absolutely include teachers and cops, especially if they had kids.

I didn't say everyone needs access to my lifestyle. I did say I celebrate more homes being built in here in JC including affordable ones. I celebrate it in Monmouth where I grew up too, yes. You're the one saying it's an issue and not explaining your issue. I grew up with 2 parents and went to a good public school and became the first in my family to graduate college. I don't expect someone who grew up homeless to do what I did, for example. And I also understand that we need people in jobs that make less than me. Seems like rather than pay teachers 300k a year, we can have developers set aside 20% of new complexes for them. The developers agree. You seem to have a concern, but are not saying what that is. I am all ears.

If your view is "love affordable housing, hate eminent domain" you haven't mentioned it until this page. But that's a fine view to have, though personally I have less of an issue with eminent domain.
 
V

vkj91

Heisman
Feb 7, 2007
188,631
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NotInRHouse said:
Ok, well then, if you have a different source I'd love to see it.

I'd also love to see an example of a town where you think there is no affordability issue in NJ- we should know so it can be a model for the state.
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but will the type of people you are talking about even qualify for this affordable housing? Say a cop making 85 is married to a teacher making 70. Will 155 a year combined salary get you in the door? I honestly don't know
 
N

NotInRHouse_anon

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Oct 17, 2007
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vkj91 said:
but will the type of people you are talking about even qualify for this affordable housing? Say a cop making 85 is married to a teacher making 70. Will 155 a year combined salary get you in the door? I honestly don't know
Click to expand...

It is based on the local income. It might in Alpine. In Wall probably depends on number of kids if any because it's based on household size too.

I found this link- it's for apartments not condos, though- it maxes out at 124k, thought it appears this link is about 2 years old so it's probably higher now.


I would figure you could hit the 155 in a higher income county.
 
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NotInRHouse_anon

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vkj91 said:
Click to expand...

In an urban area when you have a developer building 80/20 market/affordable that is going to happen so they make returns. In JC buildings over 100 units require a doorman by law. I would imagine NYC and others have similar rules. But NYS does not have an affordable housing law, and that is why the crisis in LI/Westchester is 10x worse than it is here. In LI they can't get people who grew up there to return at all.
 
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kupuna133

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vkj91 said:
but will the type of people you are talking about even qualify for this affordable housing? Say a cop making 85 is married to a teacher making 70. Will 155 a year combined salary get you in the door? I honestly don't know
Click to expand...
No they would not. Shared database after database. The metrics keep changing. It was single person starting out to now families and only if a teacher marries another teacher. And if a nurse marries a doctor they immediately need to move. It’s crazy the mental gymnastics. This was all covered in a thread back in November.

 
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kupuna133

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NotInRHouse said:
Ok...so then why are you complaining about Mount Laurel then when it's not the same law as eminent domain?

I didn't say people shouldn't save. I said it's narrow minded to insist that everyone can do so. You and I don't know everyone's circumstances. I know empathy is frowned upon in some quarters these days.

Your link says page not found. Income limits would absolutely include teachers and cops, especially if they had kids.

I didn't say everyone needs access to my lifestyle. I did say I celebrate more homes being built in here in JC including affordable ones. I celebrate it in Monmouth where I grew up too, yes. You're the one saying it's an issue and not explaining your issue. I grew up with 2 parents and went to a good public school and became the first in my family to graduate college. I don't expect someone who grew up homeless to do what I did, for example. And I also understand that we need people in jobs that make less than me. Seems like rather than pay teachers 300k a year, we can have developers set aside 20% of new complexes for them. The developers agree. You seem to have a concern, but are not saying what that is. I am all ears.

If your view is "love affordable housing, hate eminent domain" you haven't mentioned it until this page. But that's a fine view to have, though personally I have less of an issue with eminent domain.
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I’m not complaining about Mt Laurel. You are. I’m pointing out how towns and builders skirted their responsibilities for 30 years and now the towns are scrambling. The developers don’t agree. They are using the system to build more. As red team has said and I have witnessed. You will never hear a developer want to build less or build something that won’t maximize profit. They are pushing low/affordable housing mandates now so they can build more of something else.

And your last paragraph is absurd. Considering this whole thread is about eminent domain. And I addressed that on page 1 page 3 and multiple other times.

Will you be doing the right thing and selling your condo in Jersey City for the price you paid and your second home in Monmouth County?



 
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fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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NotInRHouse said:
In an urban area when you have a developer building 80/20 market/affordable that is going to happen so they make returns. In JC buildings over 100 units require a doorman by law. I would imagine NYC and others have similar rules. But NYS does not have an affordable housing law, and that is why the crisis in LI/Westchester is 10x worse than it is here. In LI they can't get people who grew up there to return at all.
Click to expand...
So then, hard "no" to my question above.

Disregard, vj.
 
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kupuna133

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fsg2 said:
Do a lot of these affordable housing developments include doormen?
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The doormen comment goes back to a thread from November where we were discussing needs/wants and living within one’s means.People may want a doorman building but do they need one and can they afford one. First apartment in the city doesn’t need to be in a door man building was the reference. Had nothing to do with affordable housing doorman building. But as you can see someone can’t stay on topic.
 
F

fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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kupuna133 said:
The doormen comment goes back to a thread from November where we were discussing needs/wants and living within one’s means.People may want a doorman building but do they need one and can they afford one. First apartment in the city doesn’t need to be in a door man building was the reference. Had nothing to do with affordable housing doorman building. But as you can see someone can’t stay on topic.
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Oh, I know. I was done with it, but it came back around.

Honestly, don't think most of us left in the thread are that far off on the topic. Nature of message boards, though - see a tidbit or throwaway you disagree with and go full-on 'seek and destroy'. And I certainly include myself a part of that narrative.
 
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V

vkj91

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Feb 7, 2007
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fsg2 said:
Does one chick's cool tabloid story from an entirely different market constitute a lot?
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Edit. Just saw your other post
But all these new developments going up have much cooler amenities than doormen.
I actually looked at one the other day to rent. Almost 6500 month
 
F

fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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vkj91 said:
Edit. Just saw your other post
But all these new developments going up have much cooler amenities than doormen.
I actually looked at one the other day to rent. Almost 6500 month
Click to expand...
Yeah, wish some of those amenities were around when I was 23.

Wouldn't have been paying equivalent of $6,500, though. Damn!
 
T

tru2ru1

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Knight Shift said:
he is very bottish. same talking points over and over, crying tears for the poor and disenfranchised.
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He is of the same vein as the participation trophy crew, everybody deserves a house & you shouldn't have to buy a starter house & work your way up to the area that you want to live....everybody should be able to buy in Colts Neck or Rumson
 
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vkj91

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TRU2RU said:
He is of the same vein as the participation trophy crew, everybody deserves a house & you shouldn't have to buy a starter house & work your way up to the area that you want to live....everybody should be able to buy in Colts Neck or Rumson
Click to expand...
I don’t agree. Not a huge fan of him but I think he gets the whole you need to start somewhere. He just likes to play the whole it’s so much harder now than it was for you card. He hates boomers and thinks they had everything so easy. He’s the same way when it comes to education. Then when you point out you can get a great education for a reasonable price, he pivots to an argument of why kids shouldn’t have to go to community college first.
 
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kupuna133

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vkj91 said:
I don’t agree. Not a huge fan of him but I think he gets the whole you need to start somewhere. He just likes to play the whole it’s so much harder now than it was for you card. He hates boomers and thinks they had everything so easy. He’s the same way when it comes to education. Then when you point out you can get a great education for a reasonable price, he pivots to an argument of why kids shouldn’t have to go to community college first.
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The thing is he can hate boomers. But most people he’s saying had it easier and don’t understand because they had silver spoons and everything handed to them, really didn’t or aren’t boomers. His constant pivoting and disregarding stats and data is what bothers me. The holier than thou gets old.
 
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kupuna133

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mdk01 said:
Not mid to late 80s. That's when I bought. 9-9.5% mid down to 7.5-8.5% late. That's for an ARM.
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So the data posted above that is tracking the historical averages of 30 year fixed is incorrect?
198013.74%
198116.64%
198216.04%
198313.24%
198413.88%
198512.43%
 
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