OT: Another NJ farm to be seized
- Thread starter Extra Point_rivals157299
- Start date
RIght? And don't forget some of that same crowd running mouth about how bad our school systems are. But I'm sure the next generation of excellent teachers is just itching to get out there and pay for college and possibly grad school so they can ... commute an hour during the work year just to barely scrape by, then look forward to running the tilt-o-whirl at the boardwalk in the summer!
Not sure why it's difficult to compound those several arguments to see this is gonna be a problem.
You haven't provided proof, but that is OK- ultimately, what I'm saying has been validated by the NJ Supreme Court, repeatedly, and what you are saying doesn't get much validation once you move the radio dial from 101.5.
That's the town he picked. I think we could do this exercise for most towns north of Toms River. To be fair, it's less of an issue in South Jersey. But that doesn't help people with jobs elsewhere.
Some teachers have summer jobs, sure. But that means they need care for children in that time too.
160k sounds nice. But we're talking people deep into their careers in a very expensive region. Even at 200, the estimate would be they could afford a 600k home- that's not going to get you a detached home in Wall that doesn't require another several hundred k in work.
More than anything, I'm just missing why it's objectionable to have a new home development anywhere in NJ where 20% of homes are affordable (essentially what the law provides). The only objection I can conceive of is that home affordability isn't an issue, and it's hard of me to conceive that anyone could agreed with that in 2025. I can only then conceive of NIMBYism.
I would love to see what you think is a 300k home suitable for a family in any of those places.
I'm missing how Mt Laurel increases prices.
It permits more density. More density = more homes. More homes = more supply. More supply = less demand. Less demand = lower prices.
The issue in Red Bank is Red Bank is very small. On the bright side, it's surrounded by other areas in the same school district with similar values. You can walk from northern Shrewsbury to the Red Bank station. The bad part is most of them are also quite expensive. Tinton Falls would be the local cheap area, and it's not that cheap and its schools would be a noticeable step down.
Really, what that area needs is more housing in the areas with extremely large lot zoning- Navesink section of Middletown and Colts Neck being great examples- and ways to get people from there to the ferries and trains and buses.
It's fair to say someone who works in Red Bank can live in Tinton Falls, but strikes me as really unfair to say if they want a detached house moved to Ocean County (and we all know the threads panning it).
Strikes me as kind of unfair to say...well you grew up in Wall and want to live there as a cop or teacher? Too bad, buck up and move south...and then say at the same time...all those places are bad and should be avoided.
Essentially....there's a problem, but it's not on us to fix it, when good solutions stare us in the face.
No it’s the town you picked last time you brought this same argument up. And we’re proven wrong. But keep throwing **** out there it will eventually stick. And why would public servants only allowed to marry public servants. Live near many and there are only 2 that are married to other public servants. And guess what they are the only ones who were able to retire at 48 and 55. Hahaaha.
Theres this little thing called buying what you can afford at a certain time in your life. Was your first real estate transaction in the greatest neighborhood and everything you would want 10-15 years down the road? Mine wasn’t. I bought a 2 br condo. And built up equity. To then move to another place a step up from there. And you know what eventually we got to our forever home. 15-20 years down the road. Because we built up equity and moved up to better.
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Why is it a family all of a sudden. Your story was single teacher or police. Now it’s a family gotcha. Keep changing the metrics. And like I said I live in the area. And there are plenty of civil servants. Most of my kids teachers live in those towns or in the town we live
Provided all the proof you need with the salary and compensation database in this thread and the other thread you brought up the same thing. You’re on repeat.
thats how it should be done, unfortunately some people want the high end home on a shoestring budget. We did the same thing, first house was as sh*tbox ranch in Kendall Park that needed major work. Kept moving up and fixing up to the point we are at now.
Exactly. Thats why I used the analogy in the last time he created this scenario. Not everyone needs a doorman building as your first time. Embrace the journey. Your needs and desires change. What I wanted at 23 is not to w same at 43.
Is your name George Jefferson?
Seriously, that's the way to do it, and what we did. As noted above, the first rentals we lived in were horrible, and we bought a house in Union County that was disgusting, but it was all we were willing to spend (not afford-we could afford more) so that we could continue to meet our savings goals.
Plenty of studies how Mt Laurel didn’t have the intended impact. You know what happens when you institute requirements and quotas right? That now becomes the ceiling. And many times worse. Towns skirt their mandates because backroom deals etc… kind of what this whole thread is about right?
No but I did live in the same block as him on the UES. HahahaIs your name George Jefferson?
Seriously, that's the way to do it, and what we did. As noted above, the first rentals we lived in were horrible, and we bought a house in Union County that was disgusting, but it was all we were willing to spend (not afford-we could afford more) so that we could continue to meet our savings goals.
Yep first rental was a 5 story walk up next to a Gristedes and abandoned building. We’d sit and watch the rats raid the garbage and pigeons fly into the open windows of the abandoned building.
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Some folks can't afford outrageous rent, let alone dropping a chunk of money on a ridiculously overpriced starter home.
Things have changed that way since the average poster here was mid 20s.
Things have changed that way since the average poster here was mid 20s.
I did the buy a cheap starter home and fix it process but have to admit it was easier for my generation than it is now. And it was much easier for my parents.
Not without difficulty but not like now.
Not without difficulty but not like now.
IDK about that.
Late 1980's- making $30K/year in my field (engineering). I literally ate Ramen noodles 3 days per week, sharing an apartment for my first year to save $6K to pay back my student loans. And I still saved and banked more money because I was frugal.
IIRC, starter houses could be had for about $110K, and mortgage rates were at about 12%.
At 20% down, 30 year mortgage is about $925/month, or $11,100/year or 37% of gross income, leaving $18,900 for other expenses before taxes.
Engineering students now make about $110K-$130K to start.
Starter home at $600K, $120K down at 6.3% mortgage.
That's $2971/month or $35,652/year, or 32% of gross income of $110K/year, leaving $74,348 for other expenses before taxes.
Plug in a teacher's (or police officer's) salary for late 1980s versus. Around the shore, there were plenty of cent houses available for $70-90,000 in the late 1980s in decent areas.
Was it? I think you are right.
I remember one of the realtors in Spring Lake had a sign in their window about what houses cost in the esteemed Borough in the 1970s or 1980s, and IIRC, there were several in the low $100s ($110-130K). In 1999, we were looking at 2 or 3 families in Lake Como that were in $90K range.
I'm not making it up. Even your example shows the disparity 5.5 x income v 3.6, now v 1980s. That's on the low end for N/C Jersey:
I'm not complaining about it on a personal level. I had lucky timing and am grateful. I do recognize those today have a rougher go. I don't understand why it's such a negative to admit that. No one's taking away from what anyone accomplished then or now. But it's a different time.
As much as I hate seeing development after development of condos and townhouses go up all over locally, it's a necessary evil.
I'm not sure how accurate that graphic is, but taking it at face value--I have wondered out loud if the same thing that happened with the real estate bubble bursting at least twice in the last 40 years if we are due for another bust? A single data point case in point.
1988 has a peak at a ratio of "5". That was the year, my parents were offered $800K for their home on a prime piece of waterfront property in Monmouth County. They were lucky enough to buy in 1967 when prices were ridiculously low.
1992- which the chart has a ratio of "4.2", but I submit it is much lower (at least compared to 1988. My parents had to sell because the property taxes were spiraling. Sold for less than half of the at $800K number. Still a tidy profit, but that property was part of their nest egg.
2005 was another runup, and 2008-09 was another bust. In 2008-9, we bought our place in Arizona in the very low $300 after it was listed for more than double a few years earlier. We sold for nearly double in 2020-21 and rolled that into new construction that we started just before the pandemic. The pandemic changed the entire market and things have not let up since. There is a whole thread on these boards about why now is different and there will not be another bust. Maybe that is correct, maybe it is not.
Looked at the graphic you supplied in that article. Looks like it’s been at current income 5-8% disparity in NNJ CNJ for the better part of 25-30 years. I and many on this board have the same or similar story with struggling with their first real estate purchase. As I have said I don’t wish struggle on anyone. Family members born 10-15 years earlier than me had a significantly easier time with their first purchase.
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I think when it comes down to it that’s the rub.
There should almost always be some sort of inventory, at all levels (rental, condo, townhome, house, etc.) just about everywhere. But maybe not transformative.
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I was born in 1958 and worked with many earlier year boomers who had a much easier time buying their first home. I will still say it was easier for me than someone born between 1995-2000. Although those of us buying our first home in the 80’s would have loved current interest rates
Interesting observations. Pandemic definitely exacerbated things.
Has been pretty pronounced in Intermountain West, which I guess is what I've observed - went from decades of mostly blue on that chart to the same gold as N/C NJ. Switches on like a dimmer light after 2019.
The intermountain West got bid up by droves of people leaving California. Sedona is overrun with Californians. Many of the closed sales were cash transactions. Homes in the hood we are in that sold for $450-500K, are all north of $1M. While prices were bid up in NJ, not to the same extent, but they were already high.
Even in the cheaper areas in Arizona such as Cottonwood, Cornville and Camp Verde, bargains are hard to find
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Don't remind me, ha.
They should make those folks spend two years in a settlement in Central Nevada to decide if they're committed to moving east or prefer to run back to CA.
Speaking of Tom’s River and housing, what’s up with the town pursuing eminent domain to seize a church to put in some emergency pickle ball courts? Is there anyone who believes this is not about stopping the homeless shelter a church tenant wants to build? Any predictions on how this ends?
This is an atrocity. Not the intent of eminent domain and an absolute abuse of power. Toms River mayor is an absolute asshat tyrant. It won’t end well for the town. Plenty of other properties mostly derelict in Toms River where eminent domain would be put to better use.
New Jersey is the most difficult state to build houses, according to homebuilders.
Ivy Zelman, arguably the best homebuilding analyst in the country, produced a 159 page report called Wonderland that analyzed housing development across the United States.
The reported concluded, "the public builders that operated in New Jersey universally cited it as their most challenging entitlement market, requiring five to seven years to gain approvals." Entitlement refers to having governmental approval to proceed with residential construction on a particular land parcel.
The average entitlement period in major states in months is:
Arizona 26
California 34
Colorado 25
Florida 22
Michigan 15
Nevada 12
New Jersey 72
North Carolina 9
Pennsylvania 42
Texas 14
Ivy Zelman, arguably the best homebuilding analyst in the country, produced a 159 page report called Wonderland that analyzed housing development across the United States.
The reported concluded, "the public builders that operated in New Jersey universally cited it as their most challenging entitlement market, requiring five to seven years to gain approvals." Entitlement refers to having governmental approval to proceed with residential construction on a particular land parcel.
The average entitlement period in major states in months is:
Arizona 26
California 34
Colorado 25
Florida 22
Michigan 15
Nevada 12
New Jersey 72
North Carolina 9
Pennsylvania 42
Texas 14
No thanks to the homeless shelter in my neighborhood. Are they cutting checks for the $25k I just lost on home sale cost.?
funny how Mendham has signs all over lawns SAVE MENDHAM (protesting new build approved) . when you go to web site, they state environmental concerns and traffic will when Obviously REAL issue is that apts are AFFORDABLE housing, in that town lol
SAVE MENDHAM (from the poor)
funny how Mendham has signs all over lawns SAVE MENDHAM (protesting new build approved) . when you go to web site, they state environmental concerns and traffic will when Obviously REAL issue is that apts are AFFORDABLE housing, in that town lol
SAVE MENDHAM (from the poor)
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According the Cranbury's tax map, the township owns hundreds of acres of land.
Why try to grab an operating farm from an owner who does not want to sell when the township could simply sell land it already owns to homebuilders?
Why try to grab an operating farm from an owner who does not want to sell when the township could simply sell land it already owns to homebuilders?
Tom's River could hand out 100 of those checks at a minimum just for what the assessed value of the property is, not to mention what it will cost to convert the property to rec use. Ball courts and potentially lighted fields with parents parking everywhere are no joy either as neighbors and attract a lot of kids at night who leave a mess. The homeless are already coming to the property for other services during the day, so this really just adds night occupancy. There are currently zero homeless shelters in Ocean county that operate on a regular basis.
I didn't pick it, and "we're proven"...uh lol
I bought a condo too (with your favorite doorman) but I also have an advanced degree and was fortunate to graduate from the #15 public school in America. I understand that we need nurses, teachers and police and don't feel aggrieved if in a 100 home development 20 units are set aside for them. Why do you?
Ah. Sorry. I thought you might want to have social security and nurses and doctors for care in old age.
I'll let the public workers know. No children unless they marry a doctor.
Yet...your arguments were rejected in court.
Every time. Without exception.
Can you show us on the doll where the Mount Laurel decision hurt you personally?
Maybe you can show them.
Better yet, given your "expertise" maybe the towns continuing to lose in court can retain you as their expert.
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