This is a Multiple Year Rebuild

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

This isn't a "rebuild"; we're just bad. Rebuilding is when you are devoting the necessary money and resources to fix the problem, but you still have to wait out the necessary time for the repairs to take place. In this instance, we're not devoting the necessary money and resources, so no amount of time is going to fix the problem.

We're just a bad athletics department under the current rules.

The reason we can’t get good transfers isn’t on the Athletic Department. It’s on the fanbase that won’t provide adequate NIL support. I don’t see UConn Fans crying about the athletic department, I see them providing enough support to win at the highest level. I used to follow UConn in the 80’s when they couldn’t even beat Seton Hall. THen Jim Calhoun came along, and with the help of willing boosters, they turned that situation around.
We have our Jim Calhoun, now all we need is to provide him with adequate support.

 

[scottsdaleal]

Since Richard McCormick became President, the Rutgers Administration has been exceptionally supportive of Athletics.

- $100M for stadium expansion
- $13M for Hale Center Expansion
- $100M for APC on Livingston
- $6M a year extension to Schiano
- $3.5M a year extension to Pikiell
- RAC Improvements

The reason we can’t get good transfers isn’t on the Athletic Department. It’s on the fanbase that won’t provide adequate NIL support. I don’t see UConn Fans crying about the athletic department, I see them providing enough support to win at the highest level. I used to follow UConn in the 80’s when they couldn’t even beat Seton Hall. THen Jim Calhoun came along, and with the help of willing boosters, they turned that situation around.
We have our Jim Calhoun, now all we need is to provide him with adequate support.

So you are comparing Pike to Jim Calhoun? Pike has won one tourney game in his entire career…Jim won at every level. And for what it is worth, UCONN has won multiple championships in multiple sports..success in athletics is important to the school. Those willing boosters believed in Jim…and in the school’s commitment. Neither of our last 2 AD’s would have been hired there let alone our Big Ten peer group.

 

[bac2therac]

Since Richard McCormick became President, the Rutgers Administration has been exceptionally supportive of Athletics.

- $100M for stadium expansion
- $13M for Hale Center Expansion
- $100M for APC on Livingston
- $6M a year extension to Schiano
- generous contracts for Schiano’s staff
- $3.5M a year extension to Pikiell
- generous contracts for Pikiell’s staff
- RAC Improvements
- Rodkin Academic Success Center on Busch

Basketball has everything it needs to win, save
NIL support.

Pike FAILED

 

[RUJMM78]

If it’s so important for the fanbase to win, they can pony up. If not, they’ll just have to be patient. This is a rebuild. We all want to win yesterday, but our circumstances dictate we will have to wait.

Long suffering fans waited 30 years to get a NCAA bid.What's lacking is a athletic department that understands the importance of winning to generate higher levels of donor support which is needed for upgrades in facilities and attracting top tier recruits.Rutgers is now facing a losing NIL battle which translates into a bottom ranked B1G Ten team .There is no magic wand to get Rutgers out of the abyss.

 

[RUDivision]

There’s not enough talent and there’s not enough money to turn things around in one year, unless our freshmen come in and set the world on fire which is unlikely, and we get impact transfers the level of Cam Spencer, which is also unlikely.

If it was so important for basketball to win, people should have given more to NIL, but since they didn’t, we play with the hand we’re dealt. The story of Rutgers Athletics. Meanwhile, UConn just landed one of the best guards in the portal, and will make a run for #1.

Pikiell turned things around once. He can do it again. We’re not firing a competent Coach with multiple years to go on his deal. He’s gradually fixing the lack of talent on the roster under adverse circumstances. (Ie not enough money). We are just going to have to be patient. This is a multiple year rebuild. The objective this year, is to simply build the foundation. Angelino Mark and Chris Nwuli are a start. There will be more to come.

Not a competent coach. You can not claim he is competent when he can only coach one side of the ball and he just had one of the worst defenses in Rutgers history.

A competent coach doesn’t come off last season with no staff changes or program adjustments. A competent coach doesn’t not spend a dime on Ogbole , JMike , or Dortch.

A competent coach runs a competent offense and teaches his team to inbound a basketball. Pikes 6 year decline ends in year 7 when he struggles to win 10/11 games.

 

[Mholinko]

Since Richard McCormick became President, the Rutgers Administration has been exceptionally supportive of Athletics.

- $100M for stadium expansion
- $13M for Hale Center Expansion
- $100M for APC on Livingston
- $6M a year extension to Schiano
- generous contracts for Schiano’s staff
- $3.5M a year extension to Pikiell
- generous contracts for Pikiell’s staff
- RAC Improvements
- Rodkin Academic Success Center on Busch

Basketball has everything it needs to win, save
NIL support.

These are all things a normal athletic department is expected to do as part of normal growth

Nothing on this list is exceptional and above and beyond what a state university SHOULD do for athletics

That you’re giving them a pat on the back for this says everything about the state of Rutgers and how beaten down it’s fans are

 

[scottsdaleal]

These are all things a normal athletic department is expected to do as part of normal growth

Nothing on this list is exceptional and above and beyond what a state university SHOULD do for athletics

That you’re giving them a pat on the back for this says everything about the state of Rutgers and how beaten down it’s fans are

Pike’s extension…is so indicative of the lack of institutional commitment and oversight to athletic excellence.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

The reason we can’t get good transfers isn’t on the Athletic Department. It’s on the fanbase that won’t provide adequate NIL support. I don’t see UConn Fans crying about the athletic department, I see them providing enough support to win at the highest level. I used to follow UConn in the 80’s when they couldn’t even beat Seton Hall. THen Jim Calhoun came along, and with the help of willing boosters, they turned that situation around.
We have our Jim Calhoun, now all we need is to provide him with adequate support.

The guy had the best point guard and second best forward in college basketball (as determined by NBA scouts) and didn't run a pick and roll once all season. Let's dispense with comparing Pike to people with multiple championships.

 

[RUDivision]

The guy had the best point guard and second best forward in college basketball (as determined by NBA scouts) and didn't run a pick and roll once all season. Let's dispense with comparing Pike to people with multiple championships.

This

 

[Eagleton95.99]

There’s not enough talent and there’s not enough money to turn things around in one year, unless our freshmen come in and set the world on fire which is unlikely, and we get impact transfers the level of Cam Spencer, which is also unlikely.

If it was so important for basketball to win, people should have given more to NIL, but since they didn’t, we play with the hand we’re dealt. The story of Rutgers Athletics. Meanwhile, UConn just landed one of the best guards in the portal, and will make a run for #1.

Pikiell turned things around once. He can do it again. We’re not firing a competent Coach with multiple years to go on his deal. He’s gradually fixing the lack of talent on the roster under adverse circumstances. (Ie not enough money). We are just going to have to be patient. This is a multiple year rebuild. The objective this year, is to simply build the foundation. Angelino Mark and Chris Nwuli are a start. There will be more to come.

It may be a multi-year rebuild. But the build is about the program - recruiting, GMing, fundraising for NIL. Pike's a good coach, but hasn't shown that he's the CEO needed to build this up. So I'm fine with a multi-year build. But I don't see anything being built. Hope it changes. Pike's an easy guy to root for when he has the players and some stability.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Long suffering fans waited 30 years to get a NCAA bid.What's lacking is a athletic department that understands the importance of winning to generate higher levels of donor support which is needed for upgrades in facilities and attracting top tier recruits.Rutgers is now facing a losing NIL battle which translates into a bottom ranked B1G Ten team .There is no magic wand to get Rutgers out of the abyss.

It’s on the fan bases to take the initiative to say, what do we need, to make it to the NCAA Tournament. Villanova and UConn got their practice facilities while our kids had to share the RAC with the baseball and softball teams.

Focus on undervalued players who are ready to contribute immediately and have them “blow up” here.

Exactly what happened with Cam Spencer and Somerville (blow up for him is being generous).

Want to “develop” some freshman and “retain”?? Sure.
But the moment they are good the “retention cost” will be the same as bringing in a transfer of the same talent level.
So they’ve been taking up roster spots not doing anything for years.

once they blow up on the open market, they are gone. That is just the environment we are in.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

We’re not the only team in this situation. I find it hard to believe so many teams have the NIL deals to offer a full roster of 7 figure pay days without the rev sharing. Certainly the BE schools need it to go through to have the cash in hand.

Xavier, UConn, St John’s, Villanova, and Georgetown are schools which have significant NIL booster money. The rest are like us, Seton Hall especially.

 

[Mholinko]

Xavier, UConn, St John’s, Villanova, and Georgetown are schools which have significant NIL booster money. The rest are like us, Seton Hall especially.

Don’t waste your breath you’re not going to convince the crowd who thinks we’re not in trouble NIL wise or can at least be competitive with our resources and infrastructure no matter what you say

Rutgers missed the boat years before NIL became a thing … I love the RAC but we stayed married to it too long we needed to get a bigger venue with corporate boxes and a $$$ presence long ago

Fans have been conditioned for years not to spend money because Rutgers never asked them too until now and now it feels like price gouging to people… to me I understand what they are trying to do but to others they feel like it’s a burden

We’re not equipped as a school or a fan base to embrace this era and the only way it’ll change is if the school changes or fans change one of them has to take the first step

 

[ruman]

There’s no such thing as multi year rebuilds anymore

Absolutely correct

 

[ruman]

Rutgers is rebuilding and hopefully we can keep most of our guys next year.

Why would they stay without NIL money if they can play

 

[RUJMM78]

Once again there aren't enough people in NJ interested in supporting college athletics as compared to other states.Rutgers can't even get enough alumni to become donors for academics.The RAC has needed a upgrade for 30 years.As fans we have watched Rutgers face the up hill battle of trying to become relevant in the B1G Ten,Without accountability mediocrity has become the norm.Just remember Rutgers men's basketball team went 30 years without one NCAA bid.

 

[Retired711]

It may be a multi-year rebuild. But the build is about the program - recruiting, GMing, fundraising for NIL. Pike's a good coach, but hasn't shown that he's the CEO needed to build this up. So I'm fine with a multi-year build. But I don't see anything being built. Hope it changes. Pike's an easy guy to root for when he has the players and some stability.

The term "fundraising for NIL" will take on a new meaning when the House v. NCAA settlement becomes final. If Rutgers decides not to use its revenues to pay compensation to athletes up to the level of the cap, then donors will have to make up the difference to give Rutgers sports as much money to pay players as other schools will. have If Rutgers does decide to pay up to the cap, then donors will be needed to make up for the annual $20 million hit to the budget. I doubt that Rutgers is going to be willing to add $20 million a year to the subsidy for athletics, and so without more donations a lot of programs will bite the dust.

 

[rufeelinit]

Did not read this thread but under the current structure a multi year build approach is nearly impossible. You either have the funds to compete or you don’t.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

The reason we can’t get good transfers isn’t on the Athletic Department. It’s on the fanbase that won’t provide adequate NIL support.

It’s on the fan bases to take the initiative to say, what do we need, to make it to the NCAA Tournament.

Please stop with shaming and blaming the fan base Al. It's getting pathetic.

Edit: It is pathetic.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

True, Would a high school kid be willing to sign a multi-year contract and give up the right to transfer if things don't work out? I doubt it.

they do in professional sports

 

[Retired711]

they do in professional sports

By the time a pro signs a multi-year contract, his position with his team is less speculative than for a kid coming out of high school. But maybe kids will be more willing to do it than I think.

 

[coldsprings_rivals]

Two lottery picks and not enough from everyone else. That’s not enough talent.

Al, the less talent there is, the more need there is to work within a system. There was zero excuse this year for Pikiell not running an offense.

 

[dark_check]

Since Richard McCormick became President, the Rutgers Administration has been exceptionally supportive of Athletics.

- $100M for stadium expansion
- $13M for Hale Center Expansion
- $100M for APC on Livingston
- $6M a year extension to Schiano
- generous contracts for Schiano’s staff
- $3.5M a year extension to Pikiell
- generous contracts for Pikiell’s staff
- RAC Improvements
- Rodkin Academic Success Center on Busch

Basketball has everything it needs to win, save
NIL support.

For a football stadium they can’t fill. Schiano and staff Pike and staff contracts, isn’t that more an embarrassment? By rac improvements do you meaning cleaning supplies for the three urinals

 

[Mholinko]

Please stop with shaming and blaming the fan base Al. It's getting pathetic.

Edit: It is pathetic.

I don’t think anyone is shaming the fan base

It’s annoying and frustrating for fans who are trying to do their part to contribute and dedicate to the program to listen to people at the games or on here complain about the product and also sit on their hands about doing their part

It’s kind of like complaining who won the election but you didn’t cast a vote

 

[bac2therac]

I don’t think anyone is shaming the fan base

It’s annoying and frustrating for fans who are trying to do their part to contribute and dedicate to the program to listen to people at the games or on here complain about the product and also sit on their hands about doing their part

It’s kind of like complaining who won the election but you didn’t cast a vote

Why would fans step up with no AD no vision no grand plan and no confidence in head coach plus years of Rutgers incompetence in athletic department. Maybe THAT needs to be fixed first....did the money donated to NIL this year matter

Honestly for me I care about my own bills and my own future than worrying about paying 18 year olds to dribble and shoot as they audition for their next bag for a new location the next year

 

[Retired711]

Why would fans step up with no AD no vision no grand plan and no confidence in head coach plus years of Rutgers incompetence in sthlrtic departmen. Maybe THAT needs to be fixed first....did the money donated to NIL this year matter

I don't have data on this, but my guess is that at schools with a lot of NIL money, that money is mostly coming from big donors, not ordinary fans. And Rutgers' lack of success over the years means that we have fewer big donors than most of our competitors. So even if lack of NIL money is most of the problem, I don't think it's fair to try to shame the fan base generally.

 

[bac2therac]

I don't have data on this, but my guess is that at school with a lot of NIL money, that money is mostly coming from big donors, not ordinary fans. And Rutgers' lack of success over the years means that we have fewer big donors than most of our competitors. So even if lack of NIL money is most of the problem, I don't think it's fair to try to shame the fan base generally.

But there are posters here like Al and Mholinko who constantly blame the fans here

The reality is we are a small fanbase that do not have many or any whales. That's the problem. A new AD needs to sell access for NIL money to whales. With no AD at the wrong time we are in trouble

 

[cRURah]

2 years to what? I hope you don’t mean NCAA Tournament, because if that’s the case, people will have to pony up next year. At our current level of NIL support, it just isn’t going to happen.

there’s not enough people or money on these boards to pony up and make a difference. fact is, the overwhelming majority of the rutgers community does not give a hoot about rutgers athletics. unlike schools such as Alabama, Ohio State, Duke or North Carolina, college sports are not deeply embedded in RU culture. We have no chance of success in the current nil and revenue model where most major programs will outspend us by millions or even tens of millions. Rutgers will always be Rutgers.

 

[Jerseylegends]

But there are posters here like Al and Mholinko who constantly blame the fans here

The reality is we are a small fanbase that do not have many or any whales. That's the problem. A new AD needs to sell access for NIL money to whales. With no AD at the wrong time we are in trouble

I can't understand it, one of the selling points of Rutgers is being 30 minutes away from the financial capital of the world. Hopefully they hire an Ad that understands this..

 

[Mr_Twister]

Here's the problem: every restriction on transferring can be challenged as a violation of the Federal antitrust laws and a defendant found liable is subject to paying treble damages. One of two things has to happen: Congress has to change the antitrust laws to allow at least some restrictions or the players have to be allowed to unionize so that they can negotiate a collective bargaining agreement with the schools that contains restrictions. (Restrictions in collective bargaining agreements can't be challenged on antitrust grounds.)

The House v. NCAA settlement that is apparently about to happen helps a little; at least it imposes a salary cap so that the majors and mid-majors are all on the same level -- Michigan won't be able to outspend Rutgers. But the settlement does nothing to stop kids from transferring every year. And the settlement doesn't protect the schools from the possibility of an antitrust suit by the Federal government -- which can also result in treble damages. That's certainly not going to happen under the current Presidential administration, but it could happen under a future one. So the only solution is for Congress to step in or for the players to unionze.

Does all of what you have written here apply if the players are not employees of the school, but independent contractors?

 

[RUsojo]

If we don’t have money for a winning roster this year, how will we have money to retain the players needed for a winning roster next year?

Without some restrictions on transferring, you basically need to rerecruit a new team every season. So if our budget truly won’t hack it we are just ****ed until something changes or we get lucky.

To be fair, this is not a straying from the status quo. We haven’t really been able to hack it, just got lucky for a few years, and now we’re back to status quo. That’s the ebb and flow of college sports it’s not unusual. And it was fun

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Rutgers is rebuilding and hopefully we can keep most of our guys next year.

most of these guys have exactly 4 years to make money playing basketball. the way things are going for a lot of people could be the most money they ever make. I would go as far as saying for most players it is downright dumb to not test the waters every offseason.

 

[ancienthooper]

Why would fans step up with no AD no vision no grand plan and no confidence in head coach plus years of Rutgers incompetence in athletic department. Maybe THAT needs to be fixed first....did the money donated to NIL this year matter

Honestly for me I care about my own bills and my own future than worrying about paying 18 year olds to dribble and shoot as they audition for their next bag for a new location the next year

I agree with you on practically nothing. But paragraph two is totally spot-on. Don’t know how most people don’t seem to get this. The money needs to come from the big-ticket boosters and the “Whales.” Not from the guy in 213 who’s doing his honest best to support with season tickets, parking, overpriced concessions, etc.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Does all of what you have written here apply if the players are not employees of the school, but independent contractors?

i don't see how the value of the scholarship and room and board are not taxable.

 

[fluoxetine]

To be fair, this is not a straying from the status quo. We haven’t really been able to hack it, just got lucky for a few years, and now we’re back to status quo. That’s the ebb and flow of college sports it’s not unusual. And it was fun

That’s not really my point though. If we have to pay market price for everyone every year and there are no multi-year deals then the concept of a “two year rebuild” is completely obsolete. Sure you might get a bit of a discount to retain someone as opposed to bringing them in from the portal but it’s not going to be that much of a discount.

If the advent of revenue sharing doesn’t lead to multi-year contracts for players I will be surprised and dismayed but we don’t seem to be there yet.

Al’s thesis of “we have no budget to buy players so we just need to retain our players” is nonsensical, if we don’t have the budget for the portal we don’t have the budget for retention either.

 

[bac2therac]

2 years to what? I hope you don’t mean NCAA Tournament, because if that’s the case, people will have to pony up next year. At our current level of NIL support, it just isn’t going to happen.

I agree with you on practically nothing. But paragraph two is totally spot-on. Don’t know how most people don’t seem to get this. The money needs to come from the big-ticket boosters and the “Whales.” Not from the guy in 213 who’s doing his honest best to support with season tickets, parking, overpriced concessions, etc.

the recent why is needs to come from whales is because the regular folk are already tapped out..you arent raising millions from them..Al posting in every thread calling season ticket holders out is just so stupid

Rutgers and Pikiell need to sell ACCESS FOR CASH.....there are companies and rich people who love nothing better than to get an ego stroke and love being able to get inside the program and its inner workings.

 

[Mr_Twister]

most of these guys have exactly 4 years to make money playing basketball. the way things are going for a lot of people could be the most money they ever make. I would go as far as saying for most players it is downright dumb to not test the waters every offseason.

Of course, too, the team can choose not to retain players and move in another direction in terms of their roster.

 

[bac2therac]

most of these guys have exactly 4 years to make money playing basketball. the way things are going for a lot of people could be the most money they ever make. I would go as far as saying for most players it is downright dumb to not test the waters every offseason.

lost in all this is the ultimate goal of getting to the ncaa tournament and winning championships...what effect does that have, what effect does players with money to spend during the season have...this is only like the third year of this...we are literally making players millionaires where a decade ago they couldnt buy a peanut butter sandwich

 

[Retired711]

i don't see how the value of the scholarship and room and board are not taxable.

The Internal Revenue Code, enacted by Congress, specifically exempts scholarships from being considered taxable. But room and board expenses paid by the school are taxable. https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc421

 

[Retired711]

Does all of what you have written here apply if the players are not employees of the school, but independent contractors?

It makes no difference.

The only change that would be brought about by considering the players to be employees is that they could organize into a union and the union could enter into a collective bargaining agreement with the schools that could contain restrictions on, for instance, transferring. That's because the provisions of collective bargaining agreements cannot be challenged as antitrust violations. Without that, any restrictions that the schools impose are subject to challenge in the courts either by the players or by the Federal government.