OT: Jackie Robinson was safe. Another viewing angle

[rudad02]

Unfortunately what you think isn’t always real in sports.
It was a close play, Jackie told me he thought he got under dads tag.
What’s more important is Jackie told me dad was one of the finest men he ever knew.

I believe the first is true. And I truly believe the second is true & the most important. And I also believe it takes a fine man to know one.

 

[Retired711]

I remember picking my dad up from road trips at Yankee Stadium with my mom in 62 and 63.
We’d pass the Polo Grounds and get a peek through the openings at the Mets game in progress.

Yes, the Polo Grounds was directly across the Harlem River (it was drilled into us in school that it's really an estuary!) from Yankee Stadium -- one was on 158th Street and the other on 161st Street (Manhattan street numbers continue in the Bronx.)

 

[RUTGERS95]

Well.. there probably was a lot of trolley lines and ferries running everywhere. Personal vehicles was not really all that common especially in metro areas even then. But one of his stories was stealing a relatives cop car at 12 years old, driving down to 1st street (amusement park in those days) and coming back uptown swimming sections of Newark Bay to not be seen (yeah, they did not fool anyone). Hoodlums! But he did end up a Marine at 16 doing beach landings... as probably did every hoodlum.

love it

still blown away anyone thinks Jackie had anything to do with the Mets

 

[ashokan]

There was a train from Bayonne to NYC. My mother rode that train from NYC every work day to her job in Bayonne in the 1930s when she was young and unmarried. She remarked on that when George Stirnweiss, a Yankee infielder of the 1940s (and one-time batting champion) died in a crash on that line in 1958. I was seven at the time.

Daily News article and pics from the event

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tragic-train-accident-new-jersey-1958-article-1.2360153

 

[RUhasarrived]

There is only one man for whom the Rotunda should have been built:Gil Hodges.
He's the only one who spanned both eras,from being one of the Boys of Summer to leading the Miracle Mets.
A great teammate and a fine human being,from teaching Jackie to play first when his own job status was in question,to having a priest tell his parishioners to "pray for Gil Hodges."
Had the Wilpons dedicated the Rotunda to him,nary a complaint would have been voiced.
One could speculate why they didn't do so,but it's best to remain silent as speculation is just that without the Wilpons input.

 

[Section124]

Daily News article and pics from the event

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tragic-train-accident-new-jersey-1958-article-1.2360153

That was the beginning of the end of the Central Jersey railroad. My dad was working at the Singer Sewing Machine factory in Elizabeth at the time. All the workers there saw the whole thing. That line essentially shut down around 1980. Raritan Valley line still uses the western most tracks but diverts through Union to Newark Penn.

My grandmother met my grandfather when she worked at the Central Jersey terminal in Jersey City. He was an engineer for ConEd in Manhattan.

 

[zappaa]

There is only one man for whom the Rotunda should have been built:Gil Hodges.
He's the only one who spanned both eras,from being one of the Boys of Summer to leading the Miracle Mets.
A great teammate and a fine human being,from teaching Jackie to play first when his own job status was in question,to having a priest tell his parishioners to "pray for Gil Hodges."
Had the Wilpons dedicated the Rotunda to him,nary a complaint would have been voiced.
One could speculate why they didn't do so,but it's best to remain silent as speculation is just that without the Wilpons input.

Don’t forget Joe Pignatano and Rube Walker

 

[dconifer0]

Yes, the Polo Grounds was directly across the Harlem River (it was drilled into us in school that it's really an estuary!) from Yankee Stadium -- one was on 158th Street and the other on 161st Street (Manhattan street numbers continue in the Bronx.)

There are no greater photographs in sports than ones which show both those stadiums, especially when both are in use. I can stare at those for hours. I’m really not sure why that fascinates me so much.

 

[zappaa]

There are no greater photographs in sports than ones which show both those stadiums, especially when both are in use. I can stare at those for hours. I’m really not sure why that fascinates me so much.

There’s something magical about the green expanse of grass and grown men playing a kids game.
An overhead shot of both stadiums in use at the same time at night would indeed be rare and stare worthy for hours for me also.
Yankees, Giants and Mets obviously did everything they could to not play at the same time

 

[wheezer]

Good chance Mets were losing those games you peeked in at

The original draft of players the Mets got in 1962 was certainly going to be a bad team
I believe they lost like the first nine games of the Season , going on to only win 40 something for the year
The other teams were able to protect their better players, where more recent drafts during expansions they were forced to leave talent available
Those more recent expansion teams thus competed much more quickly

 

[rudad02]

Don’t forget Joe Pignatano and Rube Walker

Rube Walker--name from the past--lefty stick, backup to Campy.

 

[zappaa]

Rube Walker--name from the past--lefty stick, backup to Campy.

Developed Seaver, Koosman, Ryan. Gentry and Matlack

 

[e5fdny]

Don’t forget Joe Pignatano and Rube Walker

We've talked before how important those two were.

Beat me to it, with your post above.

 

[e5fdny]

There’s something magical about the green expanse of grass and grown men playing a kids game.
An overhead shot of both stadiums in use at the same time at night would indeed be rare and stare worthy for hours for me also.
Yankees, Giants and Mets obviously did everything they could to not play at the same time.

Coming out from the dark underneath the first time as a little kid and seeing the green, green, green grass and hearing the "sounds" of MLB is something.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Coming out from the dark underneath the first time as a little kid and seeing the green, green, green grass and hearing the "sounds" of MLB is something.

My first was Yankee Stadium with my Dad.
Memory for life.

 

[e5fdny]

My first was Yankee Stadium with my Dad.
Memory for life.

Me too at Shea.

And was able to do it with my own boys and their grandfather, my Dad, at the old Yankee Stadium the year before the switch to the new place.

That memory was for me.

 

[Retired711]

The original draft of players the Mets got in 1962 was certainly going to be a bad team
I believe they lost like the first nine games of the Season , going on to only win 40 something for the year
The other teams were able to protect their better players, where more recent drafts during expansions they were forced to leave talent available
Those more recent expansion teams thus competed much more quickly

If one is to believe Jimmy Breslin, the National League used much less generous rules for the expansion draft than the American League had the year before (in adding the Los Angeles Angels and the second Washington Senators franchise). The Angels are one of only two expansion teams to have a winning record in their second season (1962) and actually contended before finishing third. Dean Chance, Billy Moran, Leon Wagner and Jim Fregosi were their best players IIRC

The Mets won only 40 games the first year. They did indeed start the year with a nine-game losing streak. Manager Casey Stengel said that starting the year with a losing streak was unfortunate because it created the possibility of a 162-game losing streak, "which would be a record, in the National League at least."

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I get your point too. I think the Mets organization feels strongly towards Jackie . (At leAst the formers owners did and Cohen has kept the Jackie Robinson rotunda in intact). The Mets only exist as an organization because the giants and dodgers left nyc …we all know that’s why they are orange and blue ! The Mets fanbase began with many of those Brooklyn Jackie Robinson fans.
If the Mets want to honor Jackie in their stadium rotunda that’s pretty cool .
I just think they should get a home game on Jackie Robinson day. But obviously the Mets don’t see it this way either.

Mets don't decide when their home games are played. The NL does.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Yes, the Polo Grounds was directly across the Harlem River (it was drilled into us in school that it's really an estuary!) from Yankee Stadium -- one was on 158th Street and the other on 161st Street (Manhattan street numbers continue in the Bronx.)

hmm... google and wiki lied to me!

They insist the Polo Grounds were at 110th street just north of Central Park. Oh.. damn! There was a 2nd and 3rd and 4th Polo Grounds!

That wiki page included this:

Deaths at the Polo Grounds
On August 16, 1920, Cleveland Indians shortstop Ray Chapman was hit in the head by a pitch thrown by the Yankees' Carl Mays. At the time, batters did not wear helmets. Chapman died 12 hours after he was hit, at 4:30 a.m. on August 17. He remains the only player to die from an injury sustained in a Major League Baseball game.

On July 4, 1950, Bernard Doyle, a resident of Fairview, New Jersey, in his 50s, originally from Dublin, Ireland, was struck and killed by a stray bullet while in his seat at the Polo Grounds. Doyle had brought a neighbor's son with him to see a doubleheader between the Dodgers and the Giants. Doyle was killed about an hour prior to the start of the first game. A 14-year-old boy later confessed to having shot a .45 caliber pistol into the air from his rooftop at 515 Edgecombe Avenue, located 1,120 feet (340 m) from where Doyle was seated.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

...The Angels are one of only two expansion teams to have a winning record in their second season (1962) and actually contended before finishing third. Dean Chance, Billy Moran, Leon Wagner and Jim Fregosi were their best players IIRC..

As a Mets fan back then... trading Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi still pisses me off. Not as much as Seaver to Cinci (though we got back some decent depth).. but Fregosi sucked for the Mets compared to his star status in the AL.

 

[rudad02]

Developed Seaver, Koosman, Ryan. Gentry and Matlack

Didn't know that.

 

[Retired711]

As a Mets fan back then... trading Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi still pisses me off. Not as much as Seaver to Cinci (though we got back some decent depth).. but Fregosi sucked for the Mets compared to his star status in the AL.

By the time the Mets traded for Fregosi (1971), Fregosi was well past his prime and no longer a regular.

 

[Retired711]

hmm... google and wiki lied to me!

They insist the Polo Grounds were at 110th street just north of Central Park. Oh.. damn! There was a 2nd and 3rd and 4th Polo Grounds!

That wiki page included this:

Deaths at the Polo Grounds
On August 16, 1920, Cleveland Indians shortstop Ray Chapman was hit in the head by a pitch thrown by the Yankees' Carl Mays. At the time, batters did not wear helmets. Chapman died 12 hours after he was hit, at 4:30 a.m. on August 17. He remains the only player to die from an injury sustained in a Major League Baseball game.

On July 4, 1950, Bernard Doyle, a resident of Fairview, New Jersey, in his 50s, originally from Dublin, Ireland, was struck and killed by a stray bullet while in his seat at the Polo Grounds. Doyle had brought a neighbor's son with him to see a doubleheader between the Dodgers and the Giants. Doyle was killed about an hour prior to the start of the first game. A 14-year-old boy later confessed to having shot a .45 caliber pistol into the air from his rooftop at 515 Edgecombe Avenue, located 1,120 feet (340 m) from where Doyle was seated.

Carl Mays was a submariner. It is thought that Chapman (a fine player) just did not pick up the pitch.

The Yankees and Indians were in a tight pennant race; when the game was played in mid-August; the Indians finally won by two games over the White Sox and by three over the Yankees. Chapman's death did not prevent the Indians from winning one of their two world championship that year.

 

[Retired711]

Developed Seaver, Koosman, Ryan. Gentry and Matlack

I think Walker originated the five-man rotation so common in today's baseball. Yes, he was an excellent pitching coach.

 

[MoreCowbellRU]

Didn't know that.

Rube Walker was the man

 

[Plum Street]

I remember picking my dad up from road trips at Yankee Stadium with my mom in 62 and 63.
We’d pass the Polo Grounds and get a peek through the openings at the Mets game in progress.

Good chance Mets were losing those games you peeked at

Mets don't decide when their home games are played. The NL does.

who decides it?