Please explain to me....

[BigRnj]

Scratching my head on Shelly’s OP. Selfish? What an ***. McConnell is a team guy and a team leader giving 100% effort on D, on the boards, and plays till the end. He’s just behind Paul and Cam in assists and he’s shooting at the team average of 47%.

We criticize the offense for going stagnant too often yet you call a true team guy selfish because you don’t like his shot selection (at times). Bad take from a guy that doesn’t sound like he’s ever played.

How did you like our team early on when he was out injured? Admittedly he is not smooth on O, but his game is gritty and tough overall … not pretty.

You’re really pushing the selfish thing, maybe your girl is breathing heavy watching him out there busting his *** for RU???

Most of us are going to miss him next year and appreciate what he does for us.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Scratching my head on Shell’s OP. Selfish? What an ***. McConnell is a team guy and a team leader giving 100% effort on D, on the boards, and plays till the end. He’s just behind Paul and Cam in assists and he’s shooting at the team average of 47%.

We criticize the offense for going stagnant too often yet you call a true team guy selfish because you don’t like his shot selection (at times). Bad take from a guy that doesn’t sound like he’s ever played.

How did you like our team early on when he was out injured? Admittedly he is not smooth on O, but his game is gritty and tough overall … not pretty.

You’re really pushing the selfish thing, maybe your girl is breathing heavy watching him out there busting his *** for RU???

Most of us are going to miss him next year and appreciate what he does for us.

Caleb is awesome. He’s a great basketball player and seems like a great person. So easy to root for

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes he gives his all on D. Not denying that, but it’s what causes the entitlement on the other end of the court. Feels like he deserves it.

It’s selfish.

There’s definitely a sense of ‘deserving’ in college and even more in the NBA. There’s an unwritten rule that whoever gets an OReb earns putting up the next shot, for example. Coaches navigate player egos, and in Caleb’s case I think Pike let’s it go far.

Many other coaches take players out for less egregious poor decisions and play.

This is coming from someone who thinks Hyatt isn’t selfish.

When others are off, Caleb takes more shots. He hit an early 3. Nobody else hit one the whole game until it was over. He’s not a great offensive player, but he’s probably one of our best 4 options on the team so why would you expect him not to shoot when nobody else is scoring?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yes he gives his all on D. Not denying that, but it’s what causes the entitlement on the other end of the court. Feels like he deserves it.

It’s selfish.

There’s definitely a sense of ‘deserving’ in college and even more in the NBA. There’s an unwritten rule that whoever gets an OReb earns putting up the next shot, for example. Coaches navigate player egos, and in Caleb’s case I think Pike let’s it go far.

Many other coaches take players out for less egregious poor decisions and play.

In another thread you said Hyatt’s defense is comparable to Caleb’s. You lose a lot of credibility there. Pike isn’t playing Caleb 37 mpg out of entitlement. I guarantee you Caleb would prefer to be playing 30-32 like starters play on most rosters. Pike has a hard time sending him to the bench because we lose a lot on both ends when he sits with pretty much every combination.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

I was hoping the ND game last year would help him achieve new heights this year but he actually seems like he has regressed a little. Regardless, we need him and I’m glad he came back.

 

[Shelby65]

Yea I did say that. There was general agreement Caleb’s D wasnt what it had been. Slow closeouts, missed switches, etc.

But for this, sure his d has been better than Hyatt’s over his career here.

 

[Knights 1212]

Many of you just love to take shots at our players. Caleb works his butt off in every game and every practice. I have already attended 16 practices this year and most of you don't have a clue how hard all of these guys work. I know he certainly will be missed next season. All of our guys should be appreciated for how they have brought respect back to RU. Would you like to go back to the Jordan, Rice, Hill, Bannon or Littlepage years? How quickly some forget.

 

[Shelby65]

Ok … nevermind that they all bust their asses.

Y’all dispute there’s a such thing as selfish players ? If there is such a thing, what would it look like ?

 

[LOU-RU85]

What a dumb thread.

 

[fluoxetine]

and that’s exactly the point. he feels like he’s not getting his, and your stat bears that out … so he chucks.

I really don’t think that’s it. First, if he was really chucking all that much his usage would be higher. Second, people take bad shots for many reasons. Caleb seems to get sort of hyped up towards the end of games and sometimes makes bad decisions.

Ok … nevermind that they all bust their asses.

Y’all dispute there’s a such thing as selfish players ? If there is such a thing, what would it look like ?

They exist, but they wouldn’t see the court on a Pikiell team. They would look like a guy sitting on the bench and transferring at the end of the season.

 

[Shelby65]

I really don’t think that’s it. First, if he was really chucking all that much his usage would be higher. Second, people take bad shots for many reasons. Caleb seems to get sort of hyped up towards the end of games and sometimes makes bad decisions.

They exist, but they wouldn’t see the court on a Pikiell team. They would look like a guy sitting on the bench and transferring at the end of the season.

We will agree to disagree. I think his chucking is due to his sense of deserving it. It’s clear because the shots aren’t in the flow of the offense.

Pikiell is a good coach, but don’t fool yourself. He’s got to stroke egos just like everyone else, especially nowadays when it’s easy (and sometimes lucrative) to transfer.

And by that I don’t mean Caleb. But he needs to be seen as a player- and not program oriented coach.

 

[wheezer]

Hardly any college players get to ‘the next level’. He will not. At times, a good college player. There are hundreds of those. There was similar irrational ‘next level’ discussion about Myles Johnson when he was here, who was a major disappointment for UCLA by his last season’s end. Just a very weak player by UCLA standards. Most ‘best’ players on their teams will never make the NBA and McConnell isn’t even that.

Cliff is the only possible NBA prospect, and also a major project at this point.

Was going to say the same, that Caleb, like most of our current players, are not candidates for the next level
Nor should we be judging them based on that

 

[wheezer]

Ok … nevermind that they all bust their asses.

Y’all dispute there’s a such thing as selfish players ? If there is such a thing, what would it look like ?

Now you are just going off in a direction that will not prove any point

 

[Shelby65]

Now you are just going off in a direction that will not prove any point

No it won’t prove anything but the thing that irritates me the most is the common view here that Rutgers is different: players HERE would never be selfish, Pike WOULD NEVER, etc, etc. Homers are indufferable. Being a fan should not wildly skew perception but it does here.

 

[Duff366]

What the f is your point? You don't think board posters have the ability to see the gray and that we are all black and white thinkers?

 

[Duff366]

I'm a 52-year old, out of shape dude who hasn't probably lifted my arms over my head in several months, but being behind the 3 pt line, I think I could hit 30% of my 3's.

You don't think Caleb, as a conditioned athlete who shoots thousands of jumpers in practice doesn't think he can't make the next one when he's wide open behind the 3 line.

As far as stagnating the offense, Caleb's mid-range is predicated on backing down his opponent and getting in a good area to shoot, much like Paul.. so yes that takes time. So what looks to you as selfish, is someone getting in range for shots he practices all the time.

Seems to me, you're the one with black and white thinking.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I’m just at a loss for who you think should’ve played more for Caleb. The bench was horrific across the board. Simpson got beat several times on defense which is why he only played 11 minutes. The defense drops off when Caleb sits. Whether he was sharper last year or not - this much is still true. The problem is that the other elite defender we have cannot handle the ball (Mag) so that ends up making Caleb more indispensable than everyone else even for short stretches. Our offense runs best with 3 guys on the court who can dribble on the perimeter in the halfcourt sets and 2 is absolutely essential.

 

[mikeyoc]

I’m just at a loss for who you think should’ve played more for Caleb. The bench was horrific across the board. Simpson got beat several times on defense which is why he only played 11 minutes. The defense drops off when Caleb sits. Whether he was sharper last year or not - this much is still true. The problem is that the other elite defender we have cannot handle the ball (Mag) so that ends up making Caleb more indispensable than everyone else even for short stretches. Our offense runs best with 3 guys on the court who can dribble on the perimeter in the halfcourt sets and 2 is absolutely essential.

Good analysis. And Pike has said more than once that he tells his players to shoot
when they're open

 

[Scarlet83]

He’s selfish, runs the clock down and chucks too much. Seems like he feels entitled.

I don’t mind his shots within offense flow. He’s stops the flow. Wants his….as they say.

Now your posts are just garbage. You don’t understand the basics of basketball. I would tell you to take a lap, but you would suck at that too.

 

[Fat Koko]

Rutgers’ track record of producing NBA players is lousy. The last player to finish his college career at Rutgers then make a big impact in the NBA was John Battle. He played for Rutgers in the 1980s.

Who cares? I prefer Pikiell’s approach to developing recruits and fans able to witness the players across several seasons. Wouldn’t want to see Rutgers become a 1&done factory even if it meant we had Pitino as coach and we’re making Final Fours.

 

[Shelby65]

Good analysis. And Pike has said more than once that he tells his players to shoot
when they're open

Of course that’s what he says. Don’t believe it. Cliff would take 10 threes a game if that were true. And his 3pt fg % is exactly the same as Caleb’s. Team low except for Chol and Woolfolk who don’t count.

 

[Scangg]

And yet Cam only averages 3 PPG more than him. Caleb finds other ways to score near the basket that are more efficient - he’s shooting almost 50% on his 2pt FGs. He’s never shot 30% from 3 in his career, it wasn’t suddenly going to happen in Year 5 just because we need him to.

Caleb shot 35.7% from 3 as a freshman, but the line was closer

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Of course that’s what he says. Don’t believe it. Cliff would take 10 threes a game if that were true. And his 3pt fg % is exactly the same as Caleb’s. Team low except for Chol and Woolfolk who don’t count.

This makes no sense at all. Caleb’s only taken 33 threes all season and he plays practically the whole game. For a guard, that is an extremely low number of attempts especially when your primary PG is hesitant to shoot from the outside. Caleb’s taken some ill advised shots but as a perimeter ball handler there are also times when he has the ball with the shot clock winding down and has to shoot.

You still haven’t answered the question of who else should’ve been shooting. Paul is Paul. Occasionally he will step up and take control but he is generally not a high volume shooter. So who else? Caleb’s 4-11 day plus some free throws was better than what anyone else did in half court sets (non transition).

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Of course that’s what he says. Don’t believe it. Cliff would take 10 threes a game if that were true. And his 3pt fg % is exactly the same as Caleb’s. Team low except for Chol and Woolfolk who don’t count.

Also - by the way, in 4 out of 5 of our losses - Caleb shot better from 3 than most of our team. 1-1 vs Miami. 1-3 vs SHU. 1-4 vs Michigan State was the best percentage from 3 on the team Saturday. Didn’t attempt a 3 vs Iowa. In the last OSU game he only attempted 2 threes.

 

[RU677381]

It is not a case of whom will take his minutes. He can keep his minutes. Just let him come to the obvious conclusion that continuation of his present style of offensive play is detrimental to the team and to his pro prospects and that he needs to make adjustments.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It is not a case of whom will take his minutes. He can keep his minutes. Just let him come to the obvious conclusion that continuation of his present style of offensive play is detrimental to the team and to his pro prospects and that he needs to make adjustments.

I just think the OP and a few others are making more of this than it is. He’s taken a few ill advised / untimely shots a game. This is a kid playing nearly the whole game. The OP has also stated multiple times that Caleb holds the team back which is a big joke. The team would be much much worse without him on it.

 

[RU677381]

I just think the OP and a few others are making more of this than it is. He’s taken a few ill advised / untimely shots a game. This is a kid playing nearly the whole game. The OP has also stated multiple times that Caleb holds the team back which is a big joke. The team would be much much worse without him

 

[RU677381]

That is not the point!!!!! What is being said is that he needs to realize that he could help the team more by playing to his strengths and not showcasing his weaknesses (20% on three point shots and being stripped by driving into traffic. Even when he is open and has a good look he can’t knock down three pointers. He is an asset to the team but he could be even more of an asset.

 

[Shelby65]

This makes no sense at all. Caleb’s only taken 33 threes all season and he plays practically the whole game. For a guard, that is an extremely low number of attempts especially when your primary PG is hesitant to shoot from the outside. Caleb’s taken some ill advised shots but as a perimeter ball handler there are also times when he has the ball with the shot clock winding down and has to shoot.

You still haven’t answered the question of who else should’ve been shooting. Paul is Paul. Occasionally he will step up and take control but he is generally not a high volume shooter. So who else? Caleb’s 4-11 day plus some free throws was better than what anyone else did in half court sets (non transition).

First, 33 is much too much if you shoot 20%. And it’s not only those.

I did answer it. Anyone else. It’s fine when he takes the shot as the clock winds down except when he’s the reason it does. Too often He stops the ball movement with 13 sec or so and then throws up garbage.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

First, 33 is much too much if you shoot 20%. And it’s not only those.

I did answer it. Anyone else. It’s fine when he takes the shot as the clock winds down except when he’s the reason it does. Too often He stops the ball movement with 13 sec or so and then throws up garbage.

It’s obviously not “too much” considering we won most of the games where he took 3s in blow out fashion anyway.

Also note that he’s always been streaky and won’t likely remain as bad as he’s been in the last 6 games. He was 37.5% from 3 through his first 8 games. Its a small sample so every made 3 moves the needle a lot. Had he hit 2 more meaningless 3s vs CC he’d have the same percentage as Hyatt who you seem to think should be firing away.

 

[BigRnj]

Ok … nevermind that they all bust their asses.

Y’all dispute there’s a such thing as selfish players ? If there is such a thing, what would it look like ?

I usually ignore asinine posts, but despite you sticking with the Caleb is selfish line, I have to point out that no one in this thread is disputing there are selfish players out there. Folks are however saying that moniker doesn’t fit Caleb.

At the same time you could say digging in on wrong and the inability to admit you’re wrong is being selfish.

Mirror say hello to Shelly.

 

[Shelby65]

I usually ignore asinine posts, but despite you sticking with the Caleb is selfish line, I have to point out that no one in this thread is disputing there are selfish players out there. Folks are however saying that moniker doesn’t fit Caleb.

At the same time you could say digging in on wrong and the inability to admit you’re wrong is being selfish.

Mirror say hello to Shelly.

What I am disputing is the homer premise that Pike/Rutgers couldn’t possibly have a selfish player like all other schools could. Look above. People said that.

Maybe it’s the definition of selfish you aren’t getting. His sense of Deserving means selfish. He’s been a solid defender, sure. That doesn’t justify all the forced shots, but to him it does.

 

[BigRnj]

What I am disputing is the homer premise that Pike/Rutgers couldn’t possibly have a selfish player like all other schools could. Look above. People said that.

Maybe it’s the definition of selfish you aren’t getting. His sense of Deserving means selfish. He’s been a solid defender, sure. That doesn’t justify all the forced shots, but to him it does.

… and the hole gets deeper. We get it you don’t like the kid, and you will twist your logic to get your point across. I’m done with you, I put the multi-posting haters on ignore to keep the clutter down.

 

[Shelby65]

… and the hole gets deeper. We get it you don’t like the kid, and you will twist your logic to get your point across. I’m done with you, I put the multi-posting haters on ignore to keep the clutter down.

Ouch, so hurtful! I dare say most of you have no idea about athlete mentality.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

What I am disputing is the homer premise that Pike/Rutgers couldn’t possibly have a selfish player like all other schools could. Look above. People said that.

Maybe it’s the definition of selfish you aren’t getting. His sense of Deserving means selfish. He’s been a solid defender, sure. That doesn’t justify all the forced shots, but to him it does.

Your not selfish. Your simply wrong. Caleb’s usage was even lower in past years than now (and it’s not that high now). We lost the 2 players we had that can create their own shots and instinctively look to do it.

Obviously - it would be great to get the ball in to Cliff every time for easy dunks but not being able to find him open does not make Caleb or anyone else “selfish”. He’s typically well covered. Hyatt and Simpson shoot at a significantly lower overall percentage than Caleb, so the notion that he should be deliberately looking to feed either of them instead of shooting would make no sense. Mag is a disaster trying to create his own shot. He shoots at a high percentage because he mostly attempts put backs and transition buckets only. There’s no way Caleb should be looking to feed him for open shots either. Paul has the ball plenty. He shoots and drives when he’s comfortable. He and Caleb are both shooting around the same percentage 42%. It would be completely inaccurate to say Caleb is preventing Paul from higher usage.

And finally, Cam cannot take every damn shot! So please enlighten us. Who should selfish Caleb be feeding instead of attempting shots with his already limited usage that’s resulting in delivering about 10 ppg? I’m failing to understand your point.

 

[Shelby65]

It’s not about feeding. It’s about continuing with the set past 15 seconds left on the shot clock. Too often motion ends because he forces shots much too early.

If he did at 5 seconds what he does at 15, I wouldn’t mind. The fact that he often chucks too early in the clock proves he’s selfish, because if ball movement continues he’s concerned he may not get the ball back.

That’s the thing. He wants his and below 15 seconds his chances are much reduced. So he forces.

 

[hiwater]

the criticism of just criticizing Caleb is that the overall O is (at times) stagnant; there is a lot of one on one; even the key 2nd half lay-up by Derek against OSU was because everybody else was standing around; So I get it - I've been watching it - I've been yelling to move more (they don't listen to me); And let's face it -- we have one true outside shooter - and hope that someone else is having a good day. But I'm not ready to stop Caleb from shooting the 3 (didn't think that late game shot against OSU with 18 sec on the shot clock was wise) - until someone besides CS can consistently make that shot.

That is why he does it at times. He does not stop the ball or take over unless everything else stagnates. Most of the time that I see him trying to back someone down one on one is when nobody else is helping out by trying to get open. This does not happen often in games, but it is usually needed when it does. He can at least get his short jumper off and he hits them at a reasonable rate compared to his long jumper

 

[Shelby65]

That is why he does it at times. He does not stop the ball or take over unless everything else stagnates. Most of the time that I see him trying to back someone down one on one is when nobody else is helping out by trying to get open. This does not happen often in games, but it is usually needed when it does. He call at least get his short jumper off and he hits them at a reasonable rate compared to his long jumper

No, he absolutely does stop the ball too early and often….which is what I label as selfish.

 

[hiwater]

It’s not about feeding. It’s about continuing with the set past 15 seconds left on the shot clock. Too often motion ends because he forces shots much too early.

If he did at 5 seconds what he does at 15, I wouldn’t mind. The fact that he often chucks too early in the clock proves he’s selfish, because if ball movement continues he’s concerned he may not get the ball back.

That’s the thing. He wants his and below 15 seconds his chances are much reduced. So he forces.

Your wrong on this IMO. He does not go one on one often, and it is AFTER the motion stops on O. We are better off with him taking these rare short higher percentage jumpers than letting Spencer or anyone else force one at the buzzer with someone in his face.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Yea I did say that. There was general agreement Caleb’s D wasnt what it had been. Slow closeouts, missed switches, etc.

But for this, sure his d has been better than Hyatt’s over his career here.

I’ll agree that Caleb’s D is NOT what is was in previous seasons, thus far far, but it’s still elite. That being said I think he knows his body and would bet that it picks up going into the post-season.

Not agreeing, however, with the gist of your OP RE: selfishness.