Any evidence for this? His steals and blocks are identical to last year and he is committing 0.8 fewer fouls per 40 minutes. Defense is difficult to measure with those kind of individual stats, but it is also the case that our team has improved from #53 defensively last season to #4 this season so there's no evidence for it there (in fact evidence against it) as well.
Please explain to me....
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I’m not getting all the hate towards him and I certainly do not think Pike feels compelled to play him so many minutes out of loyalty (he logs more minutes on the team than anyone). He’s crucial to every single strategic line up we utilize. That’s the reason.
You're just wrong. His backdown shots are not forced. They are good looks. If the offense is moving, he never isolates and goes one on one unless he has a clear side. He does this maybe 2 times per game. 3 at the most. It is after RU has had repeated possessions on O that were stagnate. I welcome seeing him take charge when the rest of the guys are not able to get open looks. He is able to create his own shot backing guys down that. Mulcahy and Hyatt can do this also, but Hyatt turns it over too much when he attempts this. The O does not seem to get too stagnate when Mulcahy is in there
Thank you for proving me wrong. Maybe it just seems that way when I watch him play? Maybe he’s just playing smarter? Much appreciated!
He played very well tonight on both ends. No denying that. The previous few, I’ll continue to believe what I do.
As the first half tonight progressed, I think the 0 in Spencer’s column caused him to be selfish too this time. That’s just how athletes are. He had open guys to pass to but he was overly focused on trying to score.
And it wasn’t that Pike encouraged him to keep shooting. He took multiple really bad shots.
As the first half tonight progressed, I think the 0 in Spencer’s column caused him to be selfish too this time. That’s just how athletes are. He had open guys to pass to but he was overly focused on trying to score.
And it wasn’t that Pike encouraged him to keep shooting. He took multiple really bad shots.
I think maybe you are just using "selfish" in a more.. expansive way than some others. Cam pressing is not "selfish". Cam is generally our best offensive weapon and most of the time we need him to win. That's not to say that Cam didn't take any bad shots. Just, again, there can be more than one reason why a player takes a bad shot.
Also, you've been ripping my statement that a selfish player wouldn't play for Pike..
it's not that Pike is some magic unicorn that could never recruit a selfish player. It's.. have you seen how we play basketball? It's a grind it out style that wins with lots of things that do not show up on a stat sheet. People who come to beat Iowa 45-42 are not selfish players. Players that develop themselves into defensive player of the year are not selfish players. Defense is notoriously difficult to measure in basketball; if Caleb hadn't actually won DPOY only the most dedicated fans would know how good he truly is.
it's not that Pike is some magic unicorn that could never recruit a selfish player. It's.. have you seen how we play basketball? It's a grind it out style that wins with lots of things that do not show up on a stat sheet. People who come to beat Iowa 45-42 are not selfish players. Players that develop themselves into defensive player of the year are not selfish players. Defense is notoriously difficult to measure in basketball; if Caleb hadn't actually won DPOY only the most dedicated fans would know how good he truly is.
Sure, there are other reasons for bad shots. In the first half Hyatt hoisted a few it seemed mostly to exploit the dominant offensive rebounding....as in "make it or we will rebound it anyway." Or maybe he was being selfish. I wasn't sure what to make of that.
Other reasons : late clock. Or expecting to draw the foul. But I am not a believer in shooting and shooting some more to eventually break out of a slump or a bad game. I don't believe Pike would encourage that, as they are wasted possessions and for us, a below average offensive team most nights, Our possessions are more important to us than possessions are to high scoring teams.
Anyhow, no. I consider pressing the same as selfish play. Because, why press ? Desperation to score. He had no points for most of the game and the bad shots and bad judgment indicated selfishness today. I trashed McConnell's O the past few games, but today he was excellent. IIRC, maybe only one 3 pt attempt as the clock ran down, which was fine in that situation.
Caleb isn't a selfish player. That's silly. No need to discuss further
He's desperate to score because he's our top scorer and his scoring is integral to our winning. The act of shooting the ball is not selfish. People who think this fundamentally misunderstand basketball. A couple of important concepts:
(1) As NewJerseyHawk will tell you over and over.. you can't play 4 on 5 on offense (or 3 on 5, or 2 on 5 which is what we would have if some of our fans got their way). Caleb plays because of defense, but he can't just not be an offensive threat. Even if he's not that efficient of an offensive player he still needs to shoot when open and be aggressive offensively some portion of the time.
(2) You don't just take your second highest volume shooter and have him stop shooting because he is "cold". Pike definitely wants Cam shooting if he is in the game. If his confidence is so shot that he needs to stop shooting, you take him out (which Pike did).
I agree with some of that. But I promise you Pike doesn't want anyone taking bad shots ever. Those are essentially turnovers.
And, I get your point about 4 on 5 etc. which is why I ranted endlessly about Myles Johnson being a net negative. I was thrilled he left early. And tonight Miller played a lot.
In reality, it depends who's in the game. Three legit scorers can hide a useless offensive player. With Johnson, sometimes having Harper and Geo was barely enough to compensate.
And, I get your point about 4 on 5 etc. which is why I ranted endlessly about Myles Johnson being a net negative. I was thrilled he left early. And tonight Miller played a lot.
In reality, it depends who's in the game. Three legit scorers can hide a useless offensive player. With Johnson, sometimes having Harper and Geo was barely enough to compensate.
Well this depends on what you mean by "bad shot". For the most part, I agree Pike would prefer zero bad shots. But to the extent that people here consider wide open threes by Caleb or (maybe not as much anymore) Mag to be bad shots, it's pretty clear to me that Pike doesn't mind them taking them.
As an aside, we need more 3 attempts for Mulcahy! He's a career 35.5% shooter and he's taken fewer than Caleb this year.
Am not in favor of McConnell taking open threes any more than I am of Cliff doing it. that’s just me. You want Miller taking them?
But before tonight Caleb’s been taking undeniably bad shots. Contested threes. Fadeways being rejected, shots that aren’t in his repertoire, etc, low percentage. In the stat book those are misses but the truth is, they are unforced turnovers.
I do not agree with ‘he was pressing’ being different than selfishness. It’s not team play
Miller played 4 minutes though it felt like longer he was so bad.
Hyatt’s shots were huge but we probably don’t win this game without Caleb. The final score doesn’t tell the whole story. With Caleb on the bench, we had no answer for PSU’s offense in the halfcourt sets. They were scoring on nearly every possession.
He will go on a stretch where his 3 looks better, like Mag is now. And Hyatt. All of them are streaky. He has to take some otherwise it will allow defenders to stack the box. He has to play on the perimeter as I’m sure you saw what happens when Mag tries to be a perimeter player. Not his game so we need Caleb there for ball handling considering our lack of depth at guard. Cliff should never be on the perimeter for long on offense.
It’s not worth debating but IM0 Caleb, despite playing great and within himself tonight is not why we won easily. It was the relentless inside scoring and offensive rebounding.
This is why Reiber didn’t play. He’s not an inside player, so he couldn’t exploit PSU’s weakness there.
So, it was dominance inside and Hyatts late threes which led to the 20 pt win. Not mostly Caleb, despite playing well
This is why Reiber didn’t play. He’s not an inside player, so he couldn’t exploit PSU’s weakness there.
So, it was dominance inside and Hyatts late threes which led to the 20 pt win. Not mostly Caleb, despite playing well
Did you not see what happened to our defense when Caleb had to sit? We had nobody else to cover Pickett. Are you so sure we win a shoot out if Pickett continues to score at will the whole second half?
He had 1 fade away 10 foot baseline jump rejected all year. That was a good shot that he took at MSU. He has be backing his guy down low and making that shot all season. He only takes one or 2 of those a game. I have not seen him take one contested 3 all year except when the clock is expiring.
The way you are reasoning this, you do not want anyone that is cold to start a game to take any more shots later in the game or they are selfish. You do not want anyone that is not a high percentage 3 point shooter to take 3 pointers even when they are open or they are selfish.
As fluoxetine explained to you, that would leave us playing 2 or 3 on 5 on offense. If the D knows that you will not shoot, they can sag off and help out against the one that will shoot. That will just have the effect of stifling the rest of the offense. I am glad Hyatt was still willing to shoot in the second half last night. He was selfish though by your reasoning because he continued to shoot after missing all of his shots in the first half.
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XO
i think the logic with Hyatt last night was to shoot because we were dominating the glass and had a good chance of rebounding misses.
That is unlikely reasoning to why Hyatt was shooting more. Hyatt shot no more or no less per minute played than he usually does. He played more minutes yesterday than he usually does. Probably because he got hot.
Funny you would say that. I don’t agree. I commented at the game several were bad shots. Outcome doesn’t matter to judgment.
Not a good idea to run across a highway even if you survive.
You could say that about any of our players to rationalize them shooting more in this game.
The bottom line is that until attempting his off balance fade away that found a way to go down at the 17 something mark of the second half - Hyatt had gone 0-13 from the field spanning over a 2.5 game stretch. There was nothing good about that shot decision until it went in and snapped Hyatt’s slump. All 5 guys on the court need to shoot - and outside of Cam, no one guy shoots that much better than the others anyway.
Yeah some of these guys should learn that it is better to be silent and people think you might be a fool than it is to post and erase all doubt.
On a message board the trade is even better.. be silent and people won’t know you’re even there.
No, outcome is all that matters. How can a shot be bad if it scores 3 points? That’s the maximum number of points a single basketball shot can score.
I love Caleb's toughness on defense. He should be on the court for as many minutes as he can give.
Offensively, CM leads the team in turnovers. When he tries to drive into the middle, there is is a very good chance of him getting stripped. He had another blatant hook on his drive against Funk that didn't get called. He creates some of the late clock shots because he holds the ball at 10-14 seconds. The ball absolutely cannot be in his hands for an iso attempt as the shot clock is winding down. He isn't Geo or Ron. He's also had a number of late game critical mistakes or poor decisions this year.
Him and Hyatt get 3 dribbles. Anything beyond that dramatically increases the chance of a bad outcome.
Offensively, CM leads the team in turnovers. When he tries to drive into the middle, there is is a very good chance of him getting stripped. He had another blatant hook on his drive against Funk that didn't get called. He creates some of the late clock shots because he holds the ball at 10-14 seconds. The ball absolutely cannot be in his hands for an iso attempt as the shot clock is winding down. He isn't Geo or Ron. He's also had a number of late game critical mistakes or poor decisions this year.
Him and Hyatt get 3 dribbles. Anything beyond that dramatically increases the chance of a bad outcome.
1000% correct. And Caleb makes more mistakes than Hyatt. Suggesting a shot is ‘good’ because it goes in is kindergarten logic. So Let’s take 50 half court shots each game and applaud the judgment on 1 that goes in?
Good shots optimize scoring, bad shots don’t.
There’s an adage that applies to you: missing the forest (judgment) for the trees (rare outcomes). I know you are just being contrary, because you know the difference between a good and bad shot isn’t determined by whether it goes in or not. Immensely stupid logic.
The trees are part of the forest. It seems to me that if I've seen the trees then I have, by definition, seen the forest.
Last time I checked, you get points for the ones that go in (points are good!) and do not get points for the ones that do not go in (not having points is bad!)
It's just Common Sense
Somebody said Hyatt had zero hesitation on one of his catch and shoots. I don't think that's ever a problem with him, pretty sure he's thinking about shooting while on D, waiting to get in the game, on the ride in, at breakfast, etc.