Jim Harbaugh

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tom1944

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Feb 22, 2008
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A woman has the freedom to do whatever she wants with her body. But this problem is not only about her body. It also involves a man’s reproductive rights and the baby’s rights.
Can a woman give birth to a child and if that child later needs some type of organ transplant can the woman demand the bio father donate a kidney or portion of his liver
 

Underdogs88

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Sep 14, 2010
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Are you equally incensed when someone pulls the plug on a comatose relative? Because that's taking a life, too, one that has the same, maybe better, chance of surviving on its own as a fetus outside the womb.
It matters. Direct euthanasia is morally wrong. If they are at the end of their life and the body is shutting down, then extraordinary means need not to be taken to keep someone alive, but they should be given good palliative care. See the link below for a more comprehensive explanation.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-teaching-on-extraordinary-care-for-the-sick
 

tom1944

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Feb 22, 2008
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It matters. Direct euthanasia is morally wrong. If they are at the end of their life and the body is shutting down, then extraordinary means need not to be taken to keep someone alive, but they should be given good palliative care. See the link below for a more comprehensive explanation.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-is-the-churchs-teaching-on-extraordinary-care-for-the-sick
I am not a Catholic. Why should that Catholic explanation mean anything in a secular government.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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As soon as there is a viable and detectable heartbeat then yes that is a human being. That’s actually science…
Ha ha. Next you'll tell us science can define "love".

Let say some individual rapes a little kid. Is that individual human? Me, I say no. I say it's an animal that should put down like any other rabid animal. What's science say?

Sure, science can tell us when there's a heartbeat or when a fetus might survive being removed from the womb. But science cannot, and does not, tell us what the definition of "human being" is. That's for philosophers, religious leaders, or politicians to speculate about.
 

fsg2_rivals

Heisman
Apr 3, 2018
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Pretty sure this is mostly managed by that human previously having the choice on whether to remain on life support or please don’t ever put me on life support. If that choice wasn’t made/declared by said human, then that human’s appropriate people make that choice, presumably and hopefully thinking about what that human would want them to choose in that situation.
You see yet how your analogy doesn’t align with what happens to the unborn child?

So they're free to kill. Gotcha.

A life is a life, hypocrite.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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That is correct. The genetics of a human zygote would confirm the offspring is human in nature.
Gonna ban the morning after pill then? And what's next after that? Banning contraception and masturbation? We can send teenagers to prison for life for having a wet dream! Yee haw! We're rolling now!
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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Gonna ban the morning after pill then? And what's next after that? Banning contraception and masturbation? We can send teenagers to prison for life for having a wet dream! Yee haw! We're rolling now!

Can we forward all viable sperm to these valiant defenders of all human life?
 
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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Pretty sure this is mostly managed by that human previously having the choice on whether to remain on life support or please don’t ever put me on life support. If that choice wasn’t made/declared by said human, then that human’s appropriate people make that choice, presumably and hopefully thinking about what that human would want them to choose in that situation.
You see yet how your analogy doesn’t align with what happens to the unborn child?
That works both ways. You cannot claim that an abortion is the same as murdering some individual outside a mother's body. Not at all the same thing.

And if one can define abortion as murder, then what's to stop one from defining the removal of life support as murder? What is to stop government from sending us to prison for smoking cigarettes which we know kills people - it's murder!

I think I saw that politicians in some states, TX perhaps, are looking into restricting the right of mothers to travel out of state in case she decides to seek an abortion elsewhere. Awesome. We can chain the women to their beds, or, you know, the kitchen where they really belong anyway, amirite? Freedom!
 
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mildone_rivals

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Dec 19, 2011
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If you can't see a difference between brain dead on life support and a newly created life with all the potential that life can attain, then I really don't know what to tell you.
Can't imagine you're serious.
What is your solution? Smother them with a pillow?
Pulling the plug is no guarantee of death. That situation happens all the time. I'm pretty sure killing them on purpose is off the table. So what's your point?
The point is that once government decides it's okay to dictate to individuals what they do with their bodies or what's inside their bodies, then what's to stop them from banning all kinds of stuff. What's to stop them from banning living wills that instruct medial pros not to use dialysis or breathing machines or feeding tubes? All those things can be defined as murder if one wants to define it that way.
 
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fsg2_rivals

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Apr 3, 2018
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That works both ways. You cannot claim that an abortion is the same as murdering some individual outside a mother's body. Not at all the same thing.

And if one can define abortion as murder, then what's to stop one from defining the removal of life support as murder? What is to stop government from sending us to prison for smoking cigarettes which we know kills people - it's murder!

I think I saw that politicians in some states, TX perhaps, are looking into restricting the right of mothers to travel out of state in case she decides to seek an abortion elsewhere. Awesome. We can chain the women to their beds, or, you know, the kitchen where they really belong anyway, amirite? Freedom!

The idea of prosecuting for miscarriage is absolute insanity. Like, a step or two from burning "witches."
 

RUBOB72

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Aug 5, 2004
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If you can't see a difference between brain dead on life support and a newly created life with all the potential that life can attain, then I really don't know what to tell you.
Can't imagine you're serious.
What is your solution? Smother them with a pillow?
Pulling the plug is no guarantee of death. That situation happens all the time. I'm pretty sure killing them on purpose is off the table. So what's your point?
You are beating a dead horse to death hoping that people will see the light about an innocent human life. One’s family history , early school indoctrination and a general so what attitude or lack of responsibility plays a huge part in their beliefs.
Ha ha. Next you'll tell us science can define "love".

Let say some individual rapes a little kid. Is that individual human? Me, I say no. I say it's an animal that should put down like any other rabid animal. What's science say?

Sure, science can tell us when there's a heartbeat or when a fetus might survive being removed from the womb. But science cannot, and does not, tell us what the definition of "human being" is. That's for philosophers, religious leaders, or politicians to speculate about.
“Love is never having to say you’re sorry. “ Now that’s a great saying.
 
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RUBOB72

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You are beating a dead horse to death hoping that people will see the light about an innocent human life. One’s family history , early school indoctrination and a general so what attitude or lack of responsibility plays a huge part in their beliefs.

“Love is never having to say you’re sorry. “ Now that’s a great
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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Nice, I knew there was some stuff in there I'd agree with.
I've always been down with Jesus pointing out that love is the greatest of faith, hope and love. Corinthians 1 13:13.

Not a hell of a lot of folks, Christian or otherwise, these days who seem to adhere to that for some reason. One could be forgiven for thinking most people have translated that into something they're much more comfortable with: "demonization, hypocrisy and hate, but the greatest of these is hate".

Maybe they just think 13 is bad luck?
 

Rutgers85_rivals

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Jul 5, 2014
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I’m curious to see how the pregnant woman in Texas fares with her argument that her 8 month old fetus now counts as a person and thus should be allowed to use the HOV lane in Texas.

Other questions I read:

Does a fertilized egg, embryo, or fetus really have the same legal rights as you and your neighbors? When does child support begin? What if a woman from a different country is visiting the U.S., has sex, and becomes pregnant? The U.S. recognizes birthright citizenship, so does that mean that a person who is conceived here is a U.S. citizen?
 
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MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,479
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That works both ways. You cannot claim that an abortion is the same as murdering some individual outside a mother's body. Not at all the same thing.

And if one can define abortion as murder, then what's to stop one from defining the removal of life support as murder? What is to stop government from sending us to prison for smoking cigarettes which we know kills people - it's murder!

I think I saw that politicians in some states, TX perhaps, are looking into restricting the right of mothers to travel out of state in case she decides to seek an abortion elsewhere. Awesome. We can chain the women to their beds, or, you know, the kitchen where they really belong anyway, amirite? Freedom!
"I think I saw that politicians in some states, TX perhaps, are looking into restricting the right of mothers to travel out of state in case she decides to seek an abortion elsewhere. "

I wonder if those same politicians ( in states where prostitution is illegal) will place restrictions on the men of that state when it comes to going to a state with legal prostitution and restrict their use of a sex worker .

Some politicians might feel :every sperm counts and that needs to be kept in state of grace
Save the sheep, legalize prostitution
 

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
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As soon as there is a viable and detectable heartbeat then yes that is a human being. That’s actually science…
In a sea of stupidity this somehow stands out.
Gonna ban the morning after pill then? And what's next after that? Banning contraception and masturbation? We can send teenagers to prison for life for having a wet dream! Yee haw! We're rolling now!
Stop, you’re giving @RUTGERS95 too many good ideas all at once.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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"I think I saw that politicians in some states, TX perhaps, are looking into restricting the right of mothers to travel out of state in case she decides to seek an abortion elsewhere. "

I wonder if those same politicians ( in states where prostitution is illegal) will place restrictions on the men of that state when it comes to going to a state with legal prostitution and restrict their use of a sex worker .

Some politicians might feel :every sperm counts and that needs to be kept in state of grace
Save the sheep, legalize prostitution
That post makes me feel sheepish.
 

RUBlackout7

All-Conference
Apr 10, 2021
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Gonna ban the morning after pill then? And what's next after that? Banning contraception and masturbation? We can send teenagers to prison for life for having a wet dream! Yee haw! We're rolling now!
Banning contraception is definitely on the table. Almost no Republicans voted in support of them today. Twilight zone stuff.
 
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angmo

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Jul 24, 2017
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The military has required vaccines from the beginning of time. It’s about troop readiness
Not a vaccine. Next. Biden has been vaxxed 4x and got it despite telling everyone that the vaccine will keep you from getting the virus on numerous occasions.


Right wing taking demented potato out of context alert!
 

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,699
18,991
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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Newsweek is right wing????????????????????
I thought Newsweek went out of business decades ago.

Anyway, ooh look, a politician stated something that turned out not to be true. I mean, that never happens, right? Certainly no other president in our history has stated something that later turned out not to be true.

In any event, I have an important PSA for folks like @angmo, who think people getting COVID despite being vaccinated means vaccines are bad. For all of you anti-vaxxers, you're absolutely right so whatever you do, please do NOT get vaccinated.

🙂
 

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,699
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I thought Newsweek went out of business decades ago.

Anyway, ooh look, a politician stated something that turned out not to be true. I mean, that never happens, right? Certainly no other president in our history has stated something that later turned out not to be true.

In any event, I have an important PSA for folks like @angmo, who think people getting COVID despite being vaccinated means vaccines are bad. For all of you anti-vaxxers, you're absolutely right so whatever you do, please do NOT get vaccinated.

🙂

But why do they push the "you won't get it" line? All you have to do is compare the hospitalization rates. Case closed.
 
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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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But why do they push the "you won't get it" line? All you have to do is compare the hospitalization rates. Case closed.
Because politicians can’t help but exaggerate and lie. Biden does it. Trump did it. Obama and Bush did it. Goes with the territory.

What cracks me up is people who hang on every word uttered by a politician of “that other party” waiting for an opportunity to pounce and then, when it‘s a politician from their party, doing a 180 and excusing every false or exaggerated utterance with “everybody know what he meant”.

It’s just such a moronic game. And yet people do it their whole lives.
 

angmo

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But why do they push the "you won't get it" line? All you have to do is compare the hospitalization rates. Case closed.
They just like to move the goal posts and then throw a temper tantrum when you call them out. Put them on ignore. It pisses them off. Then they can just shout at empty space. I'm sure some guys I have on ignore will scream at me. A metaphorical banging of one's head against a wall.

I'm here for RU sports. I engage once in a while until it becomes boring.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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They just like to move the goal posts and then throw a temper tantrum when you call them out. Put them on ignore. It pisses them off. Then they can just shout at empty space. I'm sure some guys I have on ignore will scream at me. A metaphorical banging of one's head against a wall.

I'm here for RU sports. I engage once in a while until it becomes boring.
Yes, you're absolutely right. Biden is the first and only president in the history of the United States to move goal posts. 🤣

Nobody's screaming at you. We're laughing at you. 😉
 
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May 11, 2010
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RUBlackout7

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Not a vaccine. Next. Biden has been vaxxed 4x and got it despite telling everyone that the vaccine will keep you from getting the virus on numerous occasions.


Right wing taking demented potato out of context alert!
It is a vaccine, literally fits the definition. It’s just no longer and very effective vaccine due to the virus mutating.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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Isn't that the same thing as saying those states protect the woman's choice for 6 weeks.. after which the baby's rights take precedence? Just from a practical standpoint 6 weeks seems a bit too short.. how long does it take to realize your pregnant? Mileage may vary a bit there... but suppose it it 4 weeks.. then to have 2 weeks to get ti done.. seems a bit short.

The outright bans, I find a little odd. We'll have to see what that means come November. Perhaps a bunch of state legislatures will see some turnover.

I do not know what the latest science is as to when a fertilized embryo becomes a living entity with feelings but I would think there is room here for compromise. I would further suggest that his topic is one area where the left's focus on "freedom from religion" might get some traction, if it can be said the outright bans are largely because of religion and that this is a case of a state imposing religious beleifs on its residents. I think SCOTUS might have an angle with which to work there and support both teh Consitution and a limited period of CHOICE for women. But Roe was not originally and wrongly decided from that standpoint.

I also think that when a pregnant woman loses a child through some accident or crime, those responsible could be charged with murder even though the woman herself could still legally choose to terminate. I find that a disturbing paradox.

They are picking random weeks to match polling.

In the handful of states against rights they ban. Where they poll more highly (FL, AZ) it's 15 with an asterisk. The others fall in between.

It's only scientific polling not biology.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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I’m curious to see how the pregnant woman in Texas fares with her argument that her 8 month old fetus now counts as a person and thus should be allowed to use the HOV lane in Texas.

Other questions I read:

Does a fertilized egg, embryo, or fetus really have the same legal rights as you and your neighbors? When does child support begin? What if a woman from a different country is visiting the U.S., has sex, and becomes pregnant? The U.S. recognizes birthright citizenship, so does that mean that a person who is conceived here is a U.S. citizen?

Oh the last one I am SO looking forward to

Also can fetuses be a deduction on taxes? How about sperm? Are men holding thousands of lives to deduct each day?
 
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RUBOB72

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It is a vaccine, literally fits the definition. It’s just no longer and very effective vaccine due to the virus mutating.
Did they not make this claim last year .In the event of a mutation in the virus it will be an easy change to make in the mRNA for a different strain of the virus. See if we did that then all current vaccines would be rendered obsolete. Now we hear nothing about a combined flu/ cov vax. which is something else they put out there to the public.
 
Oct 17, 2007
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Yes, you're absolutely right. Biden is the first and only president in the history of the United States to move goal posts. 🤣

Nobody's screaming at you. We're laughing at you. 😉

I thought COVID was only 15 cases and went away with the heat.

Didn't someone say that...someone who struggles to pronounce "yesterday"?
 
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RUBOB72

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Seems as though North Korea has totally squashed the virus according to the Chubby Pickle himself.
 

Frida's Boss

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Oct 10, 2005
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It is a vaccine, literally fits the definition. It’s just no longer and very effective vaccine due to the virus mutating.

Its an incredibly effective vaccine. While the instances of infection increase over time as the virus evolves, the vaccine still significantly limits instances of severe illness or death. The vaccine has allowed the world to, for the most part, return to normal behavior and activity. There is no rational argument or statistical fact that lends credence to the notion that the vaccines are ineffective,

Those are facts.

Those screaming that the vaccine is ineffective aren’t interested in reality. They are solely interested in winning some intellectually hollow partisan argument. In and of itself, such views are irrelevant, However, over time, these partisan views influence the ignorant and lead to poor choices, which leads to illness and deaths that are avoidable.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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Its an incredibly effective vaccine. While the instances of infection increase over time as the virus evolves, the vaccine still significantly limits instances of severe illness or death. The vaccine has allowed the world to, for the most part, return to normal behavior and activity. There is no rational argument or statistical fact that lends credence to the notion that the vaccines are ineffective,

Those are facts.

Those screaming that the vaccine is ineffective aren’t interested in reality. They are solely interested in winning some intellectually hollow partisan argument. In and of itself, such views are irrelevant, However, over time, these partisan views influence the ignorant and lead to poor choices, which leads to illness and deaths that are avoidable.
I find it hilarious that one of our fellow forum members, who is a self-admitted unrecovered alcoholic who gets drunk every day, thinks vaccines are bad for him. 🙂

Anyway, after seeing the overwhelming evidence of infection outcome data, it’s become very clear that the entire COVID anti-vaxxer movement has already begun solving itself, Darwin-style. No point arguing with them. We can just sit back and watch it happen.

Although I suspect more than half the professed anti-vaxxers are sneaking out and getting the vaccines when nobody‘s looking, while chanting the messaging they're handed by the media they consume. Brave souls that they are, they are afraid to fall out of COVID messaging lockstep with their anti-vaxxer buddies, but also afraid to go unvaccinated.

Such brave souls they are. So full of conviction. 🤣
 
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batts

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Jun 6, 2001
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The most important question is who are the unborn? If the unborn are human (science confirms the unborn are human) then they deserve human rights. All humans have equal dignity. It is immoral to discriminate based upon sex, skin color, race, level of development, location where one lives, etc.

The direct killing of an innocent human being is ethically wrong. The unborn are human. Therefore, the abortion procedure whose goal is to directly kill the unborn is ethically wrong.
Spot on. Regardless of your stance on abortion rights, you have to at least consider the moral delemna of wiping out a potential life.
 
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angmo

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Its an incredibly effective vaccine. While the instances of infection increase over time as the virus evolves, the vaccine still significantly limits instances of severe illness or death. The vaccine has allowed the world to, for the most part, return to normal behavior and activity. There is no rational argument or statistical fact that lends credence to the notion that the vaccines are ineffective,

Those are facts.

Those screaming that the vaccine is ineffective aren’t interested in reality. They are solely interested in winning some intellectually hollow partisan argument. In and of itself, such views are irrelevant, However, over time, these partisan views influence the ignorant and lead to poor choices, which leads to illness and deaths that are avoidable.
Because you said so, fatso.
 
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