OT: Phil Mickelson

[WhiteBus]

That was the cost for Honda classic. My boss teed it up a couple of times. Swag bag was worth a grand. Played one round with Dufner and another round with Kisner.

The current Honda is a big deal now. After the Jackie Gleason Classic it was terrible. Moved around to several courses then settled into PGA National in 2003 or 2004. Even then it was crap until Jack changed the course. And it is a Nicklaus charity now. So they get a great field. Same with Arnold Palmers event. Those are big money events for amateur players. I would think that this week was in the $10k or less.
The current course is impressive and hard.

 

[RU85inFla]

I played in one Pro Am. Played with Faldo right after he won the masters. 18 was the max handicap. Vendor was a sponsor.

 

[MADHAT1]

Cracks in the bans of LIV golfers by the PGA might start to show
DP World Tour barred Ira Poulter , for joining the LIV tour, disqualifying him from playing in the Scottish Open .
He appealed that DP tour ban keeping him from being in the Scottish Open and won the right to play in it.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

It's not that high $$ wise in most events or even close but you can pay and never have played the game which is stupid.

Yeah depends on the tournament. Some, like the John Deere, aren't nearly as expensive as some others.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Cracks in the bans of LIV golfers by the PGA might start to show
DP World Tour barred Ira Poulter , for joining the LIV tour, disqualifying him from playing in the Scottish Open .
He appealed that DP tour ban keeping him from being in the Scottish Open and won the right to play in it.

He technically didn't win an appeal. The judge just granted a stay until the appeal could be heard.

Poulter's comments were kind of weak. He said he feels disappointed a tour he's been a member of for 24 years turned their back on him but frankly, he also turned his back on them opting to not play in certain tournaments so he could chase the dollars on LIV. They want the best of both worlds. They want to cash the big signing bonuses, pocket winnings even if they finish last and then show up for a handful of big money events on the DP and PGA Tour. Don't whine about a tour turning your back on you when you basically are doing something similar.

 

[rcube1994]

That was the cost for Honda classic. My boss teed it up a couple of times. Swag bag was worth a grand. Played one round with Dufner and another round with Kisner.

Low teens hcp so not terrible but have been know to yank some drives from time to time so would be a bit jumpy with potential spectators. $40k per foursome? Could probably justify ~$5k for a one time experience.

 

[MADHAT1]

He technically didn't win an appeal. The judge just granted a stay until the appeal could be heard.

Poulter's comments were kind of weak. He said he feels disappointed a tour he's been a member of for 24 years turned their back on him but frankly, he also turned his back on them opting to not play in certain tournaments so he could chase the dollars on LIV. They want the best of both worlds. They want to cash the big signing bonuses, pocket winnings even if they finish last and then show up for a handful of big money events on the DP and PGA Tour. Don't whine about a tour turning your back on you when you basically are doing something similar.

I believe he got $30 mil to sign on with the LIV
So you're right about the DP/PGA didn't turn their backs on him, he left them for Saudi bucks
and sold himself to the LIV tour.
If the ban is back in force after the appeal is heard and ruled upon, other LIV tour players won't have a good chance to get their bans lifted.
If he wins ,a mass run to the courthouse from the LIV Tour's 19th hole.

 

[Knightmoves]

Not a complimentary eval of Phil’s performance in the two LIV events from golf channel writer.

The Weak Link: Phil Mickelson. With LIV continuing to stockpile top-100 players, it won’t be long until the 51-year-old Mickelson becomes the worst player in the league. His post-hiatus play has been so putrid that guys must be hoping to avoid landing on his four-man team, knowing that they’ll essentially be a three-ball competing for the weekly team prizes. He lost the first LIV event by 17 shots. In Portland, he was 23 shots back. And this is across just 54 holes! Mickelson got what he wanted – to disrupt the professional landscape, and to pocket a nine-figure paycheck in the process – but it’s still a sad end to a legendary career.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Not a complimentary eval of Phil’s performance in the two LIV events from golf channel writer.

The Weak Link: Phil Mickelson. With LIV continuing to stockpile top-100 players, it won’t be long until the 51-year-old Mickelson becomes the worst player in the league. His post-hiatus play has been so putrid that guys must be hoping to avoid landing on his four-man team, knowing that they’ll essentially be a three-ball competing for the weekly team prizes. He lost the first LIV event by 17 shots. In Portland, he was 23 shots back. And this is across just 54 holes! Mickelson got what he wanted – to disrupt the professional landscape, and to pocket a nine-figure paycheck in the process – but it’s still a sad end to a legendary career.

Pretty sad but it is what it is and it's probably why he grabbed the big cash when he could. I do wonder if this was Mickelson of 15 years ago would he have jumped? Probably as he was always about the cash but maybe the 35 year old Mickelson would think he could dominate the PGA Tour.

One other funny thing that I noticed. The article cites "stock piling Top 100 guys". At first they were saying they would pull a bunch of Top 20 guys. Then it was hey, look at all the Top 50 guys we got! Now it's hey, we are adding Top 100 guys. I think the reality has set in for the LIV Tour that they likely aren't going to be pulling the real elite guys, at least for the time being. The top guys they got like a Koepka and DJ and DeChambeau if he gets over his injuries were guys that were the most likely to jump anyway.

 

[Jtung230]

Not a complimentary eval of Phil’s performance in the two LIV events from golf channel writer.

The Weak Link: Phil Mickelson. With LIV continuing to stockpile top-100 players, it won’t be long until the 51-year-old Mickelson becomes the worst player in the league. His post-hiatus play has been so putrid that guys must be hoping to avoid landing on his four-man team, knowing that they’ll essentially be a three-ball competing for the weekly team prizes. He lost the first LIV event by 17 shots. In Portland, he was 23 shots back. And this is across just 54 holes! Mickelson got what he wanted – to disrupt the professional landscape, and to pocket a nine-figure paycheck in the process – but it’s still a sad end to a legendary career.

He literally won a major last year and dominated the senior tour. I think his head is not into it.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

He literally won a major last year and dominated the senior tour. I think his head is not into it.

Possibly but I suspect last year's PGA Champ win was more fluke than anything else. He was 55th at the Masters in Nov 2020, 21st at the one in March 2021, 62nd at the US Open and didn't make the cut at the British. His 2021 season had a ton of missed cuts and his best finish other than the PGA was a tie for 17th and the Fedex St Jude.

He wasn't all that competitive last year other than that one, remarkable win.

 

[Jtung230]

Possibly but I suspect last year's PGA Champ win was more fluke than anything else. He was 55th at the Masters in Nov 2020, 21st at the one in March 2021, 62nd at the US Open and didn't make the cut at the British. His 2021 season had a ton of missed cuts and his best finish other than the PGA was a tie for 17th and the Fedex St Jude.

He wasn't all that competitive last year other than that one, remarkable win.

I wouldn’t call it “fluke”. He beat 155 players in a four day tournament. His other finishes you listed were not great but it’s not 17 and 23 shots off the lead bad. I guess that’s the one downside of no cuts.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

I wouldn’t call it “fluke”. He beat 155 players in a four day tournament. His other finishes you listed were not great but it’s not 17 and 23 shots off the lead bad. I guess that’s the one downside of no cuts.

A fluke in the sense that it came out of nowhere for a 50 year old who for pretty much the entire season wasn't all that good outside of that one tournament.

I mean it's hard to argue it wasn't wildly surprising given his age and his overall performance leading up to and after that win.

 

[Jtung230]

A fluke in the sense that it came out of nowhere for a 50 year old who for pretty much the entire season wasn't all that good outside of that one tournament.

I mean it's hard to argue it wasn't wildly surprising given his age and his overall performance leading up to and after that win.

It was a big surprise and very unexpected. I guess I associate the word fluke with someone that’s never won before.

 

[NickRU714]

People involved in athletics making decisions to gain huge sums of money for themselves? Even if it means the sport as a whole is going to suffer?

What kind of terrible people are these....
https://bigten.org/news/2022/6/30/general-big-ten-conference-statement.aspx

I also really like seeing college athletics fans complaining about people watching an athletic competition that doesn't have the most talented players (see every NBA conversation).

 

[Knightmoves]

It will be interesting to compare the leading money winners from LIV and the Tour at the end of the season. Branden Grace is adapting well to LIV after 15 years as a touring pro.


“One Month’s Work: Branden Grace. The Portland title was by far the most profitable of his career – the largest check he’d ever cashed was $1.1 million, for winning the 2017 Nedbank. This one was worth $4 million. Through two LIV events he has earned $6.6 million on the course – more than half of what he’d earned in his entire career on the PGA Tour ($12.2M) – in addition to whatever signing bonus he received for jumping ship. For a player who only once in his career reached the top 10 in the world, sheesh, that’s a hefty haul.”

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Horschel went somewhat scorched earth on the LIV guys in his presser yesterday. But I think he went overboard on one point. He said guys are saying they chose LIV to play less tournaments but they want to keep their Tour card which would require 15 tournaments on the PGA Tour.

But is that what guys like Johnson and Koepka and DeChambeau want? I thought those guys didn't want to play in any PGA Tour events, just LIV and then the four majors?

But it does raise a question about some of the big non-major events like the Players Championship, Memorial, WGC events. Do the LIV guys want to play in some of those events?

 

[rcube1994]

Gotterup on the Subpar podcast this week, 200 mph ball speed must be nice.

He starts around 14 minutes in.

 

[WhiteBus]

Horschel went somewhat scorched earth on the LIV guys in his presser yesterday. But I think he went overboard on one point. He said guys are saying they chose LIV to play less tournaments but they want to keep their Tour card which would require 15 tournaments on the PGA Tour.

But is that what guys like Johnson and Koepka and DeChambeau want? I thought those guys didn't want to play in any PGA Tour events, just LIV and then the four majors?

But it does raise a question about some of the big non-major events like the Players Championship, Memorial, WGC events. Do the LIV guys want to play in some of those events?

Again most of the top 50 PGA Tour players don't play 15 PGA Tour events. Majors count toward the 15. So do WGC events. These co-sanctioned events like the Scotish Open also count as do President Cup and Ryder Cup as does the Fed ex Cup playoffs. So the number of true PGA Tour events they must play is well under 10.

 

[Knightmoves]

Again most of the top 50 PGA Tour players don't play 15 PGA Tour events. Majors count toward the 15. So do WGC events. These co-sanctioned events like the Scotish Open also count as do President Cup and Ryder Cup as does the Fed ex Cup playoffs. So the number of true PGA Tour events they must play is well under 10.

LIV Golf is holding 14 tournaments in 2023, many overseas.

How many will Phil and the others be expected to play? Might it be all of them?

If so then that’s a pretty busy schedule with worldwide travel.

 

[WhiteBus]

LIV Golf is holding 14 tournaments in 2023, many overseas.

How many will Phil and the others be expected to play? Might it be all of them?

If so then that’s a pretty busy schedule with worldwide travel.

I doubt they are required to play more then 8. That was the schedule when signing up.

 

[RU85inFla]

Again most of the top 50 PGA Tour players don't play 15 PGA Tour events. Majors count toward the 15. So do WGC events. These co-sanctioned events like the Scotish Open also count as do President Cup and Ryder Cup as does the Fed ex Cup playoffs. So the number of true PGA Tour events they must play is well under 10.

That's an incredible exaggeration that you keep repeating. Below is the link to last years fedex points total and has the total number of events. Top 50 from a Fedex points perspective virtually all play more than 15 events and the average is closer to 20 when you take out 7 for the majors and tour championship.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02671.y2021.html

 

[WhiteBus]

That's an incredible exaggeration that you keep repeating. Below is the link to last years fedex points total and has the total number of events. Top 50 from a Fedex points perspective virtually all play more than 15 events and the average is closer to 20 when you take out 7 for the majors and tour championship.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02671.y2021.html

So first guy I look up is Bruce Koepka. 20 total world events last year. So he is well under 15.

 

[RU85inFla]

So first guy I look up is Bruce Koepka. 20 total world events last year. So he is well under 15.

I saw that. DJ also. But you were the one that stated it was under 10 on average. That is a gross overstatement, that's all. The average is likely closer to 20 or double what you claim.

 

[Jtung230]

https://clubhouse.swingu.com/tour/rory-mcilroy-sergio-garcia-liv-golf/

Rory’s quote at the end is the reason I always pull for him. He gets it.

 

[Section124]

https://clubhouse.swingu.com/tour/rory-mcilroy-sergio-garcia-liv-golf/

Rory’s quote at the end is the reason I always pull for him. He gets it.

But yet he lives in Dubai and took money from the UAE. Rory just needs to shut up and just play golf right now.

 

[Knightmoves]

I doubt they are required to play more then 8. That was the schedule when signing up.

Are these 3 or 4 year contracts they signed to receive the signing bonuses?

 

[Jtung230]

But yet he lives in Dubai and took money from the UAE. Rory just needs to shut up and just play golf right now.

Did you even read the article?

 

[WhiteBus]

Are these 3 or 4 year contracts they signed to receive the signing bonuses?

Mickelson's is for 2 years. 8 tournaments this year and 10 next year is his commitment.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

Here's a thought. NIL is worse than LIV. Both receive money for just showing up, BUT LIV golfers can actually earn money for their accomplishments as they compete. How many of you bash Phil but are ok with NIL? Isnt that hypocritical?

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Again most of the top 50 PGA Tour players don't play 15 PGA Tour events. Majors count toward the 15. So do WGC events. These co-sanctioned events like the Scotish Open also count as do President Cup and Ryder Cup as does the Fed ex Cup playoffs. So the number of true PGA Tour events they must play is well under 10.

I get that. But even then, technically, including majors, to keep their tour card they'd have to play in 15 PGA sanctioned events (majors, regular, special DP Tour events) on top of the 14 LIV events. So how could one try to argue they want to keep their PGA card and play on the LIV Tour citing their interest in the LIV was less events? If they wanted to try to play on both tours, seems like less events isn't actually realistic.

I am also curious for the big signing bonus guys like Mickelson and DJ and DeChambeau. What are their obligations? In other words, if there are 14 LIV events in 2023, how many are they required to play in? For that kind of money, just being required to play in only half or so of them seems unlikely.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

But yet he lives in Dubai and took money from the UAE. Rory just needs to shut up and just play golf right now.

Ehhh, he lives mostly in Florida (with wife and child). The Dubai residence was set up as his "primary" residence to be used as a tax haven as many international athletes have done the similar. He had previously owned a residence in Monaco for the same reasons.

 

[Section124]

Did you even read the article?

Yes. Poorly written trash piece. Sergio was done with the PGA Tour. And likely never going to win again. If anyone should understand why he left it is his "buddy" Rory.

 

[WhiteBus]

I get that. But even then, technically, including majors, to keep their tour card they'd have to play in 15 PGA sanctioned events (majors, regular, special DP Tour events) on top of the 14 LIV events. So how could one try to argue they want to keep their PGA card and play on the LIV Tour citing their interest in the LIV was less events? If they wanted to try to play on both tours, seems like less events isn't actually realistic.

I am also curious for the big signing bonus guys like Mickelson and DJ and DeChambeau. What are their obligations? In other words, if there are 14 LIV events in 2023, how many are they required to play in? For that kind of money, just being required to play in only half or so of them seems unlikely.

Stated above. Phil has to play 8 this year. 10 next year.

 

[Jtung230]

Stated above. Phil has to play 8 this year. 10 next year.

Phil’s agent is a genius. How will LIV fill the spots if players don’t have to play all events? The field isn’t that big or good to begin with.

 

[WhiteBus]

Phil’s agent is a genius. How will LIV fill the spots if players don’t have to play all events? The field isn’t that big or good to begin with.

All the players agents in the LIV are geniuses. The upfront money is considered appearance fees. Which agents get 20% of as apposed to 10% or less for winning money

 

[Jtung230]

All the players agents in the LIV are geniuses. The upfront money is considered appearance fees. Which agents get 20% of as apposed to 10% or less for winning money

Do agents get a % of winning purse? Thought that was just caddies. Do caddies get a piece of the appearance fee?

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

Do agents get a % of winning purse? Thought that was just caddies. Do caddies get a piece of the appearance fee?

I thought the caddies were paid separately by LIV, including their travel, accomodations, meals paid for as well. Or maybe I misread that?

 

[WhiteBus]

I thought the caddies were paid separately by LIV, including their travel, accomodations, meals paid for as well. Or maybe I misread that?

I would think they would pay caddies for trips and all expenses at the minimum as do most others tournaments that pay appearance fees to players overseas. Everyone gets paid. Caddy and agents alike. Agents negotiate the fees they are getting for all of them to show up.

 

[Ty Webb_rivals67856]

I would think they would pay caddies for trips and all expenses at the minimum as do most others tournaments that pay appearance fees to players overseas. Everyone gets paid. Caddy and agents alike. Agents negotiate the fees they are getting for all of them to show up.

Yes but I seem to recall reading that what LIV does for caddies is way beyond what other exhibitions have paid, but again, maybe I misread.