OT: Phil Mickelson
- Thread starter Knightmoves
- Start date
Thats fine. Not arguing for who is right and who is wrong.
But to say the LIV players don’t care how they do cause they’re getting paid up front is no different than saying PGA golfers with sponsors don’t care how the do. They also get paid up front
Nobody cares about PGA events. It's all about majors. If LIV golfers can still play in the majors, it's a win-win for them.
there’s a few pga events people carw about. Phoenix is a big deal, TPC is a big deal, and the FedEx events are a big deal. Agree about everything else.
Waste Management? Not a big deal winning. More of a big deal because it's rowdy.
we’re talking about events people “care about”. The Waste Management is an event lots of fans and golfers “care about.”
Nobody cares. Everyone is chasing 18. When it comes to legacy, that's all that matters.
So you are saying there are 132 to 156 foursomes in a one day pro am?? I think you need to rethink your response.
I'll go back to what I said earlier. It's the majors that create a legacy. All others are about the money.
And playing on the LIV tour will help because the format is the same and no one gets cut.
Agree with this 100%. There are gonna be events these LIV golfers will miss. That’s my point. Waste Mamagemwnt, TPC, FeDEx among a few
You shouldn’t speak for others. That’s your opinion. Plenty of people care about Sam Snead’s record and when Tiger tied it.
Golf fans care about these. Casual sports fans care about the majors, when well known players are playing for the championship.
The pros play nine holes. Also, there is often a second pro am on Mondays or Tuesdays for the lesser names. The pro ams are important to the local tournament as it generates operating and charitable dollars.
Pretty much. The OWGR ruling will be a pretty big deal. If they don't get points for playing LIV events, it creates a problem. The solution seems to be just have LIV buy the DP Tour, merge and problem solved. But if LIV events qualify for points, it's a big boost to LIV.
And lest I be called some sort of anti-LIV guy, I've actually watched a bit of both LIV events. The whole newness of it and the friction between the various world tours piques the interest. But if we get a year or two down the road and this is basically what LIV has to offer, I suspect my interest will wane.
Who had to?
They lost their sponsors AFTER they agreed to join the LIV Tour and take the money.
It's not about wrong or right here. But LIV is closer to exhibition golf because they pay the players to show up whereas the PGA Tour does not.
Guys on both tours still have sponsors, so that's not exactly an apples to apples comparison here. LIV paid players to join their tour. They handed them millions before they ever hit a shot for that new tour. The PGA doesn't pay their players to show up. It's why LIV is closer to exhibition golf than most of the other main tours.
Yep, the typically split the pro ams up. The bigger name guys play on Wednesday and those are when the big money amateurs play (and typically the big corporate ones that come back year after year). The younger and lesser known pro guys typically play on Monday with the more random amateurs.
Absolutely. But honestly, I doubt this many of the big names they've grabbed would just have jumped for bigger purses. The signing bonuses were the big drivers here.
In other words, I don't think DJ is playing on the LIV Tour if he doesn't get that rumored $200 million bonus or whatever it was.
If the bigger purses were so attractive, then why pay guys like Mickelson and DJ and Keopka and Garcia the combined hundreds of millions in signing bonuses?
fair, but why is golf different then MLB, NHL, NFL and NBA. These athletes get paid just to show up too…would you ever call those leagues “exhibition leagues”. Again what’s the difference?
LIV isn’t sanctioned to get points to play in the majors. If that doesn’t change, it’s going to be hard for them to play outside of those who who have won the Masters. They will be able to play in that.
Most if not all Wednesdays. Some have a Monday, cheaper round with anyone that is around. Most pros that made the weekend before usually aren't around. Not every pro plays each week. Pebble Beach uses 3 courses and 6 hour rounds for 78 four-somes (2 pros, 2 amateurs). You are talking about 156 five-somes on one course. Do the math. It's not happening.
I never debated that money was raised, a lot for charities.
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Correct. They knew they were losing their sponsors so the upfront money was part of the deal to entice them since they lost all that revenue.
That's quite a reach. People around DJ said he was surprised that RBC pulled out for example. And DJ still kept some of his other big sponsors such as TaylorMade.
DJ is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Skipping your sponsors event is not a good way to keep your sponsorship.
Most tournaments have multiple day pro-ams. Right from the PGA Tour Handbook:
One thing to note, Monday is limited and the Tour is under no obligation to make pros available to play, but many do (some players prefer to play in Monday's event if there is one and then use the rest of the week to prepare - although there are also restrictions about practice time outside of the pro-am).
There is also something called the 9&9 format employed by the PGA Tour where one pro can play one nine with the amateurs and another pro can play the second nine.
From Golf Channel:
This cuts down the number of groups. So no, there is never a situation where there are 156 foursomes/fivesomes out there trying to play a round of golf on a Wednesday.
LOL. I met him once years ago down in Myrtle Beach. He practiced out of TPC Myrtle Beach back then before he became the big superstar he is now. He came in to get some lunch to take out to the range. When we recognized him one buddy wanted to go talk to him and the rest of us just wanted to leave him alone as he probably didn't want to be bothered by a bunch of jabronies. LOL.
Our buddy went over anyway and he talked to us briefly. Polite guy.
He didn’t have a choice since the London event was the same week.
See above. Why would RBC keep him when he bolted their own event? That is part of the reason why DJ got the big money. It’s not just a coincidence.
So you agree not everyone has to play in a pro am every week. Which was my point in the first place. Actually most tournaments don't even sell out the Wednesday event. However, @raritan1 came up with this stupid argument.
You are somewhat right. Everyone has to perform some function but not everyone plays in the pro-am. From the PGA Tour Hand Book from 2019-20:
The rules are pretty extensive. It appears that a player has to play a pro-am OR they have to participate in another tournament sponsored event - charity event, meet and greet, whatever (or even the smaller Monday Pro-Am). If you get a Tour issued opt out of the pro-am AND the sponsor event, you aren't allowed to use that free time to practice at the course.
Crazy stuff.
Basically it seems if you are good, you are obligated to play in the pro-am or some other event, if you suck, you might not have to play in the pro-am but do some other function. Because per the rules they do limit the Wed pro-ams:
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It used to be from a PGA Tour requirement standpoint that if you were using the tournament to count as part of your 15 you had to play in the Pro-Am. However, guys like Tiger and Phil only play maybe 6 or 7 truly PGA stops every year as the Majors, WGC, Ryder Cup etc counted as part of the 15 requirement. Guys that qualified on Monday had to play. Sponsors exemptions had to play of course but that was about it. They are all different format how they start (shotgun or off the 1st and 10th). Shotgun was limited to a five-some per hole and a few more on par five and long par 4s. Either way there is never 50 groups in play. For the few tournaments that have Monday qualifying there isn't a pro-am on Monday. It's more like low 30ish pros each week. The only pro am that sells out is Pebble. Last I saw it was over $50k to play years ago. It might be double that now.
It's not that high $$ wise in most events or even close but you can pay and never have played the game which is stupid.
That was the cost for Honda classic. My boss teed it up a couple of times. Swag bag was worth a grand. Played one round with Dufner and another round with Kisner.