Zach Brazilier on Hammond....

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

I’m not sure I would say 15-16 with 5 BIG wins was great progress. The team Rice left wasn’t that good.

RU was in the Big East then--when BE was the best hoops conference. Importantly he had us pulling away from shoe on the court and on the recruiting trail. Iirc refs hosed us vs. ND in Rd 2 of the BET too. Definitely had the program on the right track.

 

[Duff366]

Competitive, but on the right track is a stretch. Kind of remember the Rice years as starting off with hope and then not getting over the hump

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Idk, starting to win big games vs ranked teams at home to re-establish the RAC, wins in the BET, pulling away from shoe, Mack-Carter-Seagears-Jack as sophs...all sounds like the right track to me at the time.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

RU was in the Big East then--when BE was the best hoops conference. Importantly he had us pulling away from shoe on the court and on the recruiting trail. Iirc refs hosed us vs. ND in Rd 2 of the BET too. Definitely had the program on the right track.

“Best” was a myth as far as RU was concerned on the unbalanced schedule. We got 2 games against SHU (they were terrible 3 total BE wins. We swept them that year). Split with SJU who also wasn’t good. The other wins were South Florida - 3 conference wins). DePaul (2 conf wins). Also lost to St Peters that year.

That RU team literally had one decent win - home vs Pitt. I don’t see how you say that team was showing good promise.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

“Best” was a myth as far as RU was concerned on the unbalanced schedule. We got 2 games against SHU (they were terrible 3 total BE wins. We swept them that year). Split with SJU who also wasn’t good. The other wins were South Florida - 3 conference wins). DePaul (2 conf wins). Also lost to St Peters that year.

That RU team literally had one decent win - home vs Pitt. I don’t see how you say that team was showing good promise.

8 losses to ranked teams and unbelievably neither powerhouses UConn or Nova were ranked at the time. The young guys were coming together as the season moved on, we beat DePaul in BET after losing to them earlier in the season and again had Top 25 ND on the ropes in Rd2. Returning core was pretty damn solid to good--not BE Elite good, but clearly good enough to take another step forward.

 

[Scangg]

I hate to break it to you guys but it's 2022. Centers don't mean much to your teams success. Peep nba draft boards from 1990 and 2021. It's a different game

3 out of the 4 top teams in the B1G last year had the best bigs in the league. Kofi at Illinois. Williams and Edey at Purdue. Cliff at Rutgers.

The game has changed. This isn't the NBA though. Bigs still matter. The proof is in the results

 

[Scangg]

I’m not interested in knocking Pike because I like him. Instead, my question is simply this:

At what point do we stop making the same excuses for our program (not Pike). We’re in the B1G, we’ve won a lot of big games the last 3 years, we’ve been a tournament team 3* years in a row, we have a brand new practice facility, we sell out every home and have a great home court advantage, we’re a very good school and we’re in one of the largest media markets in the country?

I don’t know but it seems to me the time has now passed for bringing up prior issues. There’s a lot to sell today.

There is a lot to sell today... half that list is bc of Pike. That's the point.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

8 losses to ranked teams and unbelievably neither powerhouses UConn or Nova were ranked at the time. The young guys were coming together as the season moved on, we beat DePaul in BET after losing to them earlier in the season and again had Top 25 ND on the ropes in Rd2. Returning core was pretty damn solid to good--not BE Elite good, but clearly good enough to take another step forward.

We had ND on the ropes? Come on man. The game was over at half time. We made it look sort of close at the end but it was not close. And DePaul was terrible. That was not a good team and it was very unlikely To be an NCAA caliber team the next year.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

There is a lot to sell today... half that list is bc of Pike. That's the point.

A lot of teams have a lot to sell. That’s also the point. Just because RU is an attractive option doesn’t mean there aren’t other places that guys Pike wants prefer.

 

[Russ Wood]

I hear Alvarado is in the rotation for the Pelicans this year. Didn’t hear much about him at Georgia Tech but perhaps that is a function of his team not doing much?

IIRC, Georgia Tech won the 2021 ACC Tournament and Alvarado scored 13 points and had 5 steals in the championship game.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

We had ND on the ropes? Come on man. The game was over at half time. We made it look sort of close at the end but it was not close. And DePaul was terrible. That was not a good team and it was very unlikely To be an NCAA caliber team the next year.

Geez if "NCAA-caliber" is your bar for the '13-'14 team then this is not even worth discussing further. I wasn't on this Board at the time but other forums like Zagsblog and Carino's Hoops Haven were pretty optimistic about an NIT bid (before the Rice meltdown) which of course would be significant progress back then. BTW DePaul beat Auburn and Az St in nonconf play but yeh ran into a brick wall up against their Big East schedule that year.

Btw2.0-we lost the BET game to ND at the FT line...RU 5 of 11 at the free throw line; the Irish were 15 of 19 from the charity stripe in R 69-61 loss.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

If you’re going to infer me being dumb then please don’t make **** up.

Pikiell didn’t start anywhere close to 4K season tickets. We barely averaged over 4K a game back when he took over (counting students).

You’re completely ignoring the facts that:

- Our football fanbase is way bigger than basketball (just check the amount of followers on IG, Twitter etc.)
- There are only 6 football games a year
- Football is an event. Thousands of people attend that aren’t even that into it because of the tailgating or social aspect
- Almost all football games are on the weekend. Much easier for fans to attend, especially fans that live more than 15 minutes away (as opposed to weeknight basketball games)
- Most football games are during September/October
- Football student section is 10K

So no, it’s not really easier to sell out an 8K basketball arena. Even if it was, selling out the RAC game in and game out, and having one of the best home court winning percentages, is a testament to Pikiell and the success he has achieved.

I mean, you’re not dumb, right?

hahahahaha, the mental gymnastics you had to do for this post to try to claim it's harder to sell 8K tix than 53K LOLLLL

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Armando Bacot literally just dominated March. To be fair they had some late starts so it might have been past your bedtime.

what's the least valuable position on the court by a mile in 2022?

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

No?

“People come to our games now” isn’t a big selling point to a recruit. Neither is “We have a place to practice now.” At best, they’re two less things competing schools can actively use against you.

wait, you think having a sold out stadium/arena every game isnt a selling point to a recruit?! LOL.

But further to your own point, literally our coach has nothing holding him back for him not to be recruiting at a much higher level

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I’m trying to understand you here man. Are you saying that the prior 30 years of losing before Pike was the fluke - that in effect, pretty much any halfway decent coach would’ve been able to restore RU to respectability as quickly as Pike did? The Rutgers job had the stigma of career killer attached to it before Pike took it. Nobody wanted it - it wasn’t like Pike breezed in and cashed in on a winning lottery ticket that everyone would’ve aspired to have.

yes because those prior 30 years those coaches didn't have literally 1/4 of what pike was given. Before pike our coaches didn't even have like air conditioning in the RAC or lights to practice at night! LOL.

Lets recap for the thousandth time
- Top tier pay. Peep pikes salary vs those of the prior 30 years. And you can even inflation adjust it
- Top tier facilities
- Top tier home court advantage

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Didn’t Kyk get into an online spat with FB recruit Jojo Bermudez and then claimed that Jojo started it against him? Not one of his finest moments.

Sometimes it’s best to just step away from the keyboard.

false, he dm'd me and I showed his dm's here haha. Post has zero to do with said thread tho. dumb post imo

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I’m not interested in knocking Pike because I like him. Instead, my question is simply this:

At what point do we stop making the same excuses for our program (not Pike). We’re in the B1G, we’ve won a lot of big games the last 3 years, we’ve been a tournament team 3* years in a row, we have a brand new practice facility, we sell out every home and have a great home court advantage, we’re a very good school and we’re in one of the largest media markets in the country?

I don’t know but it seems to me the time has now passed for bringing up prior issues. There’s a lot to sell today.

THIS THIS THIS

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

3 out of the 4 top teams in the B1G last year had the best bigs in the league. Kofi at Illinois. Williams and Edey at Purdue. Cliff at Rutgers.

The game has changed. This isn't the NBA though. Bigs still matter. The proof is in the results

and how's this strategy working out for the big ten every march? While every conference adjusts the big ten is staying big and slow and getting skull fvcked in march

 

[Scangg]

and how's this strategy working out for the big ten every march? While every conference adjusts the big ten is staying big and slow and getting skull fvcked in march

Cliff isn't big and slow though. Cliff is big and and fast. Elite elite athletic ability. Cliff is the type of big every team wants. He is also going to add perimeter shooting and be the total package. He is a difference maker.

Take the other side of this argument and be wrong yet again

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Cliff isn't big and slow though. Cliff is big and and fast. Elite elite athletic ability. Cliff is the type of big every team wants. He is also going to add perimeter shooting and be the total package. He is a difference maker.

Take the other side of this argument and be wrong yet again

Cliff is a good center, no doubt. ELITE physically. He looks like he was built in a lab. But people like you think having a good center means a lot in todays game when reality is it doesn't. It's 2022. You much prefer to have great guards who can shoot then great centers. I'd prefer to have both obviously but guards are so so so so so much more valuable than centers. Now if you have a center who can shoot 3's? Very valuable as well.

Also, teams will be happy to let cliff shoot mid-range jumpers. They're the least efficient shot in basketball especially when taken by a center

But again, you're entering another losing argument here just to try to take the opposite side of me lol. No need to argue this one. You'd be foolish to

 

[Scangg]

Cliff is a good center, no doubt. ELITE physically. He looks like he was built in a lab. But people like you think having a good center means a lot in todays game when reality is it doesn't. It's 2022. You much prefer to have great guards who can shoot then great centers. I'd prefer to have both obviously but guards are so so so so so much more valuable than centers. Now if you have a center who can shoot 3's? Very valuable as well.

Also, teams will be happy to let cliff shoot mid-range jumpers. They're the least efficient shot in basketball especially when taken by a center

But again, you're entering another losing argument here just to try to take the opposite side of me lol. No need to argue this one. You'd be foolish to

I don't disagree guard play is more important. You're underestimating the value of a player like Cliff. That's the point.

 

[Scangg]

The vanity to think my takes are based on your views

 

[RUsojo]

IIRC, Georgia Tech won the 2021 ACC Tournament and Alvarado scored 13 points and had 5 steals in the championship game.

Most people here don’t watch even part of a non Rutgers game each week

 

[Russ Wood]

Most people here don’t watch even part of a non Rutgers game each week

Unless I'm sick and unable to do so, I watch the ACC Tournament.

It's basically the reason every other conference has a tournament.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Geez if "NCAA-caliber" is your bar for the '13-'14 team then this is not even worth discussing further. I wasn't on this Board at the time but other forums like Zagsblog and Carino's Hoops Haven were pretty optimistic about an NIT bid (before the Rice meltdown) which of course would be significant progress back then. BTW DePaul beat Auburn and Az St in nonconf play but yeh ran into a brick wall up against their Big East schedule that year.

Btw2.0-we lost the BET game to ND at the FT line...RU 5 of 11 at the free throw line; the Irish were 15 of 19 from the charity stripe in R 69-61 loss.

Let’s get one thing straight - none of this is “my bar”. KYK has been saying it was no big deal that Pike made RU an NCAA caliber team by his 4th season. He’s saying the bar was set low simply because the previous coaches during the 30 year drought either stunk or got pushed out for reasons unrelated to on court results (like Rice). The point I was making (and the only point) is that it’s highly unlikely that Rice would’ve had a comparable year 4 to Pike’s 4th season.

 

[chrebet80]

what's the least valuable position on the court by a mile in 2022?

You don’t know who bacot is do you kiddo?

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Let’s get one thing straight - none of this is “my bar”. KYK has been saying it was no big deal that Pike made RU an NCAA caliber team by his 4th season. He’s saying the bar was set low simply because the previous coaches during the 30 year drought either stunk or got pushed out for reasons unrelated to on court results (like Rice). The point I was making (and the only point) is that it’s highly unlikely that Rice would’ve had a comparable year 4 to Pike’s 4th season.

Well I was never in that argument that you refer to so it's kinda strange you would connect my initial post to it. Anyway you tried to make many more points about how "bad" Rice's 3rd year RU team was in addition to this new far-flung connection to Pike, but it's gotten overly tedious already.

 

[S_Janowski]

hahahahaha, the mental gymnastics you had to do for this post to try to claim it's harder to sell 8K tix than 53K LOLLLL

That’s your response to a completely logical post. You actually have zero substance in your response. Like zero.

That’s when you know took the L.

You’re a joker my man haha.

Kind of sad actually.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Well I was never in that argument that you refer to so it's kinda strange you would connect my initial post to it. Anyway you tried to make many more points about how "bad" Rice's 3rd year RU team was in addition to this new far-flung connection to Pike, but it's gotten overly tedious at this point.

Huh? The other “points” are directly connected to this one. Let me add that Pike’s year 3 team wasn’t “good” either. Can’t argue about being consistent here as that 14-17 team played 20 league games vs the 18 game BE schedule Rice played to get to 15-16.

The progress Pike made from year 3 to year 4 was nothing short of remarkable. We weren’t supposed to make the tourney under Pike in year 4 - we were hoping for the NIT. Maybe Rice could’ve done the same thing if he had a year 4 but the point is there’s no reason to assume he would’ve based on where he was just as nobody expected it out of Pike. It’s ludicrous for KYK or anyone else to assume any decent coach would’ve made RU into a regular tourney contender after not even being close for 30 years.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Huh? The other “points” are directly connected to this one. Let me add that Pike’s year 3 team wasn’t “good” either. Can’t argue about being consistent here as that 14-17 team played 20 league games vs the 18 game BE schedule Rice played to get to 15-16.

The progress Pike made from year 3 to year 4 was nothing short of remarkable. We weren’t supposed to make the tourney under Pike in year 4 - we were hoping for the NIT. Maybe Rice could’ve done the same thing if he had a year 4 but the point is there’s no reason to assume he would’ve based on where he was just as nobody expected it out of Pike. It’s ludicrous for KYK or anyone else to assume any decent coach would’ve made RU into a regular tourney contender after not even being close for 30 years.

Again, I have not been part of any Rice vs. Pike argument. I have no idea why you're wasting my time with it. Give it a rest bro.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Again, I have not been part of any Rice vs. Pike argument. I have no idea why you're wasting my time with it. Give it a rest bro.

The original comment about Rice wasn’t directed at you at all. It was to KYK specific about the 30 years of dreadful hoops being the result of bad coaching (Rice being part of those 30 years). You responded to it.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

The original comment about Rice wasn’t directed at you at all. It was to KYK specific about the 30 years of dreadful hoops being the result of bad coaching (Rice being part of those 30 years). You responded to it.

Wrong

Rice also killed the disaster of a program he really was turning around. While football's improvement was first and foremost, always felt the B1G saw R BB progress too when they decided to invite us in.

I’m not sure I would say 15-16 with 5 BIG wins was great progress. The team Rice left wasn’t that good.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

yes because those prior 30 years those coaches didn't have literally 1/4 of what pike was given. Before pike our coaches didn't even have like air conditioning in the RAC or lights to practice at night! LOL.

Lets recap for the thousandth time
- Top tier pay. Peep pikes salary vs those of the prior 30 years. And you can even inflation adjust it
- Top tier facilities
- Top tier home court advantage

Every Rutgers team throughout history that has been even remotely competitive has enjoyed the benefits of the RaC’s home court advantage. That’s not unique to Pike.

The other stuff you mention has had nothing to do with our success. In fact, if anything it’s the opposite. Guys like Geo and Ron came here to be culture changers - to help a school that was desperately lacking in both on court performance and with its facilities. The new facilities put us on par with everyone else - they don’t suddenly make us a 5 star recruiting hub.

 

[Mikemarc]

Every Rutgers team throughout history that has been even remotely competitive has enjoyed the benefits of the RaC’s home court advantage. That’s not unique to Pike.

The other stuff you mention has had nothing to do with our success. In fact, if anything it’s the opposite. Guys like Geo and Ron came here to be culture changers - to help a school that was desperately lacking in both on court performance and with its facilities. The new facilities put us on par with everyone else - they don’t suddenly make us a 5 star recruiting hub.

this. This. This.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Wrong

No - your wrong. Your post was in response to a string of comments directly related to my original post about the 30 year drought being due to bad coaching (with reference to Rice).

The fact of the matter is - Rice inherited a 15 win team from Fred Hill (2009-10). He never won more than 15 games in his 3 year stint including his last year which is why I called out your comment about his great turnaround. Pike comparison aside, winning the same number of games as the guy you replace isn’t exactly the definition of a spectacular turnaround in my book. For anyone.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Let’s get one thing straight - none of this is “my bar”. KYK has been saying it was no big deal that Pike made RU an NCAA caliber team by his 4th season. He’s saying the bar was set low simply because the previous coaches during the 30 year drought either stunk or got pushed out for reasons unrelated to on court results (like Rice). The point I was making (and the only point) is that it’s highly unlikely that Rice would’ve had a comparable year 4 to Pike’s 4th season.

Given the same resources and coaching at the same time? I simply disagree.

Mike Rice with a war chest to hire a quality staff (his wasn't horrible anyway), a practice facility and a new transfer portal? No doubt in my mind he has similar success in year 4 as pike

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You don’t know who bacot is do you kiddo?

You don't know who ochai agbaji is do you cupcake? It's been a decade since a "center" has won most outstanding player of the tourney HAHA and that was anthony davis. a fvcking decade!!! LOL. But yeah, you guys keep taking the other side of my positions and absolutely embarrassing yourselves

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

That’s your response to a completely logical post. You actually have zero substance in your response. Like zero.

That’s when you know took the L.

You’re a joker my man haha.

Kind of sad actually.

haha you're trying to actually make an argument that it's easier to get 53,000 people to come see a game than 8. And yes, while weekend games and only being 6-7/yr vs 20 a year makes a difference, again 8K vs 53K. Numbers are your friend

I must say, it is enjoyable to whip you around daily tho haha

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Every Rutgers team throughout history that has been even remotely competitive has enjoyed the benefits of the RaC’s home court advantage. That’s not unique to Pike.

The other stuff you mention has had nothing to do with our success. In fact, if anything it’s the opposite. Guys like Geo and Ron came here to be culture changers - to help a school that was desperately lacking in both on court performance and with its facilities. The new facilities put us on par with everyone else - they don’t suddenly make us a 5 star recruiting hub.

Respect them and very thankful of what they helped RU accomplish but lets be real when we talk about why they came here. Rutgers was their best offers. Ron had RU and Nebraska and apparently SHU put in a half hearted effort. Geo had no other major offers, we were his only one.

 

[chrebet80]

You don't know who ochai agbaji is do you cupcake? It's been a decade since a "center" has won most outstanding player of the tourney HAHA and that was anthony davis. a fvcking decade!!! LOL. But yeah, you guys keep taking the other side of my positions and absolutely embarrassing yourselves

Everyone knows David McCormack was the real mvp of the final four but you probably don’t know who that is either lol. Lonely and stupid is no way to go through life kiddo