OT: Happy Columbus Day
- Thread starter goru1869
- Start date
Columbus "discovered" Hispaniola.
Wasn't it John Cabot that actually "discovered" America....as if you can discover a place where millions of people already live.
Wasn't it John Cabot that actually "discovered" America....as if you can discover a place where millions of people already live.
When it comes to 245 year old America, Christopher Columbus, you are NOT the father.
I never really understood the Columbus thing. Even when, as grade schoolers, we were being taught that "Columbus discovered America" I thought that the fact that he never actually landed here was problematic. The passage of time and its attendant revelations have made the old folk tale even more irrelevant.
Also worth noting that the proud Italians who celebrate him overlook the fact that his marginal achievement was entirely mercenary, after his own country gave him the shoe.
Also worth noting that the proud Italians who celebrate him overlook the fact that his marginal achievement was entirely mercenary, after his own country gave him the shoe.
I read that Columbus Day was created because Italian Americans were basically treated like dirt in America back in the day. Hung, killed etc. I always knew that WOP meant without papers and that is what people called Italians. It’s a pride thing given to people in America who were basically persecuted in America for a long time.
So basically Columbus Day was created by politicians of the day the same way politicians today feel bad for certain groups. Pander to them and create some award or statue or something. History goes by and Italians are generally not treated like dirt anymore aside from the Jersey shore joke type stuff. So I guess Columbus has to go?
Anyway that is what I read someplace.
So basically Columbus Day was created by politicians of the day the same way politicians today feel bad for certain groups. Pander to them and create some award or statue or something. History goes by and Italians are generally not treated like dirt anymore aside from the Jersey shore joke type stuff. So I guess Columbus has to go?
Anyway that is what I read someplace.
When are the Polish going to get their day? Years of horrible and hurtful jokes.
beaced don't like Columbus.Gave a place for OSU to call home.
Never gave today much thought. But reading the Wikipedia entry, it makes sense now. All of those years of indoctrination in grade school, singing, "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue," and making construction paper replicas of the Nina, La Pinta and the Santa Maria.
According to Wikipedia, the holiday was enacted to celebrate social progress.
It seems appropriate then to share the day with Indigenous People and Coming Out.
From Wikipedia:
"For the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's voyage in 1892, following a lynching in New Orleans where a mob had murdered 11 Italian immigrants, President Benjamin Harrison declared Columbus Day as a one-time national celebration.[6][7] The proclamation was part of a wider effort after the lynching incident to placate Italian Americans and ease diplomatic tensions with Italy.[6] During the anniversary in 1892, teachers, preachers, poets and politicians used rituals to teach ideals of patriotism. These rituals took themes such as citizenship boundaries, the importance of loyalty to the nation, and the celebration of social progress, included among them was the Pledge of Allegiance by Francis Bellamy."
Doesn't NYC have a Pulaski Day Parade?
The Vikings might have a word to say about Europeans "discovering" an already inhabited continent
I go back farther than you, and I remember being taught Columbus discovered the "New World". A European perspective but more accurate. I guess it depended on the teachers.
Not a national holiday.
Learned during our trip to Poland a couple years ago that in 1776, Polish General Andrzej Tadeusz Bonawentura Kościuszko moved to North America, where he took part in the American Revolutionary War as a colonel in the Continental Army. An accomplished military architect, he designed and oversaw the construction of state-of-the-art fortifications, including those at West Point, New York. Kościuszko wrote a will in 1798, dedicating his U.S. assets to the education and freedom of the U.S. slaves.
Seems much more worthy of a national holiday for what he did for the American Revolution and the slaves.
Go up for a game at West Point and tour Fort Putnam if it's a day game. Besides a magnificent view you'll learn about Kosciuszko.
Will have to try that sometime. There is quite an extensive amount of information at the Wawel Castle in Krakow, Poland, where he is entombed.
He is well represented in Philly. A beautiful statue on the Ben Franklin Parkway and the home he lived in Philly. The home is part of the US National Park Service.
My recollections and observations:
* Columbus first became a national hero back in the 1790's. We had attained political independence from Great Britain, and wanted cultural independence as well. We were looking for iconic heroes having nothing to do with Britain. Hello, Columbus.
* Then in about the 1880's Columbus morphed not so much into an Italian hero, as a Catholic hero. The Knights of Columbus, which at the time was primarily Irish Catholic, joined forces with the incoming Italian immigrants to promote Columbus as a national hero, with the hope of countering the prevailing anti-Catholic sentiment.
* In 1892 (conveniently 400 years later) 14 Italians were lynched in New Orleans. The Italian government was none too happy with this. Partially as an attempt to placate them, Columbus Day was formally established.
* Contrary to popular myth, Columbus did not have to convince people that the earth was round. By 1492 virtually all educated Europeans believed that.
* Today, Columbus Day is basically Italian-American Day. Just as St Patrick's Day is Irish-American Day. I am totally fine with that.
* HOWEVER, while I generally agree that historical figures should be judged in the moral context of their time... even by those standards, Columbus was morally reprehensible. I mean really bad. I personally cannot get past this.
So... Happy Italian-American Day. Or Happy Coming Out Day. Or Happy Indigenous Peoples Day. Your choice.
* Columbus first became a national hero back in the 1790's. We had attained political independence from Great Britain, and wanted cultural independence as well. We were looking for iconic heroes having nothing to do with Britain. Hello, Columbus.
* Then in about the 1880's Columbus morphed not so much into an Italian hero, as a Catholic hero. The Knights of Columbus, which at the time was primarily Irish Catholic, joined forces with the incoming Italian immigrants to promote Columbus as a national hero, with the hope of countering the prevailing anti-Catholic sentiment.
* In 1892 (conveniently 400 years later) 14 Italians were lynched in New Orleans. The Italian government was none too happy with this. Partially as an attempt to placate them, Columbus Day was formally established.
* Contrary to popular myth, Columbus did not have to convince people that the earth was round. By 1492 virtually all educated Europeans believed that.
* Today, Columbus Day is basically Italian-American Day. Just as St Patrick's Day is Irish-American Day. I am totally fine with that.
* HOWEVER, while I generally agree that historical figures should be judged in the moral context of their time... even by those standards, Columbus was morally reprehensible. I mean really bad. I personally cannot get past this.
So... Happy Italian-American Day. Or Happy Coming Out Day. Or Happy Indigenous Peoples Day. Your choice.
Right now you should be celebrating.
Polish American Heritage Month is in October,
Congress first deemed August as Polish American Heritage Month in 1981, but later moved it to October.
And like the Polish do, we celebrate it in December.
Yes - good article in the paper about that too. Harrison was concerned about political implications leading into his re-election campaign. I was surprised after reading this that Columbus Day didn’t become a full-fledged national holiday until the early 1970s. But it’s nice if you are lucky enough to get the day off.
Any day off is a good day. I celebrate every day off with the same joy. We did not get the day off today.
Fuhgeddabout Eric the Commie or Chris discovering America.
It was an Irish Monk now known as St. Brendan the Navigator that discovers America sometime between 512-530 AD
But since the United States has one holiday honoring an Irishman ( though born in Brittany) ,
St Brendan was passed over in order to keep the USA from having 2 days when everyone gets drunk .
Eric didn't make the cut because of his Red connection and with no ties to Cincinnati to explain why he was a Red
It was an Irish Monk now known as St. Brendan the Navigator that discovers America sometime between 512-530 AD
But since the United States has one holiday honoring an Irishman ( though born in Brittany) ,
St Brendan was passed over in order to keep the USA from having 2 days when everyone gets drunk .
Eric didn't make the cut because of his Red connection and with no ties to Cincinnati to explain why he was a Red
I appreciate what Geraldo has to say. I'm part Italian and grew up in Bloomfield, so I get the pride for Columbus. But he was a colossal prick. So celebrate Columbus Day. Celebrate Indigenous Peoples Day if that's your preference. All good, IMO.
The guy can't brush that mop before he posts a video?
Sheeit, beaced was here when he came.
Did that Monk from Ireland leave you behind or were you the one that that guided people across the Bering Strait and as the first people to enter North America, about 13,000 years ago
One of the greatest explorers of all time.
One of the worst colonial administrators of all time.
One of the biggest scapegoats of all times:
Blamed for decimation of native populations by European diseases. As if that was his plan. Blamed for enslavement of Native Americans. Who enslaved each other and used each other as human sacrifices before and after Columbus arrived.
A man who had both plusses and minuses that are seldom addressed at the same time.
One of the worst colonial administrators of all time.
One of the biggest scapegoats of all times:
Blamed for decimation of native populations by European diseases. As if that was his plan. Blamed for enslavement of Native Americans. Who enslaved each other and used each other as human sacrifices before and after Columbus arrived.
A man who had both plusses and minuses that are seldom addressed at the same time.
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