RU recruiting vs the BIG

[BigEastPhil]

1) knight and hobbs position wasnt open, youngs was. You HAD TO hire a great recruiter there.
2) i wanna play the dirty game and hire a tiny morton type. As long as their brought on as a full time assistant their guys are fair game
3) if were getting under the radar kids, ok. But were not. In total our roster has a grand total of less than 10 p6 offers other than Rutgers.
Ron- nebraska, shu
Geo- zero
Caleb- MAYBE mizzou
Myles- zero
Shaq- zero
Kwasi- grad transfer
Young- transfer who didnt have many options when he left texas
Kiss- zero
Duke- who knows
Montez- a handful.
mulcahy- a lot less than people think

1 - What great recruiter did you have in mind? I reckon most are dirty and that’s not how Pike plays

Our top 4 kids are all undereecruited. Geo, Harper, Myles and Kwasi albeit Kwasi as a grad transfer

So far all 3 kids recruited for next year are under recruited. Let’s see how they shake out and the big IF is whether we land Cliff

Don’t forget Pike recruited Jamal Warnley (forget his name) to Stony Brook

And though I think it’s overrated, let’s see how and if the practice facility has any positive impact

I understand your points but your principles differ from how Pike plays

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

We re competing for Cliff aren’t we? It’s between us and ASU or am I wrong? We’re going after other 4 star kids. Hopefully we win some but if not, get the under recruited gems like Geo, Harper etc. Pike has a talent in this area.

And what’s with “ we re in the B1G 10? The Old BIg East mopped the floor with this conference and I didn’t see us bringing in too many big fish in our old conference either

If he gets Cliff, maybe things will change. I hope you’re right because I keep reading it’s between ASU and Kentucky. However, It’s always some excuse. We couldn’t recruit because we were in the A10....we can’t recruit because we don’t win... can’t recruit because Seton Hall, Nova, St. John’s etc. gets the local kids, we can’t recruit because we didn’t have a practice facility. Well, Rice and Hill actually did recruit so it can be done. They didn’t do much with it, however.

And yes, the B1G does mean something. It’s the best basketball conference in the country right now. And even if it doesn’t mean anything, it’s not acceptable for our recruiting class to be 11th or 12 in a fourteen team league..especially when your last recruiting class consisted of exactly one player.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I'm pretty sure Geo had an offer from KState, Caleb from WVU. Ducoure had a bunch as did Mathis. Shaq Carter had 8 power six offers. Mulcahy had 9 himself.

So honestly you're pretty wrong about that.

Wrong wrong and wrong. Shaq carter came down to RU and middle tenn state. We were geos only major offer. He would be at umass if it wasnt for pike. No one knows what offers duke had but it wasnt a ton despite being a 4*. Mathis did have a good deal probably 4-6 commitable p6 offers. Mulcahy did not not not have 9 p6 offers. People still think he had nova and ND offers

 

[Russ Wood]

Unless we want to play the dirty game and bring in a Tiny Morton type, we have to rely upon Pike spoting the gem or hoping a local stud like Cliff wants to stay home.

I get that it's your rival but hiring Tiny Morton wasn't dirty. It was, and still is, within the rules.

But I know it's your rival so you, and many other RU fans, will likely always consider it dirty.

 

[NickRU714]

I get that it's your rival but hiring Tiny Morton wasn't dirty. It was, and still is, within the rules.

But I know it's your rival so you, and many other RU fans, will likely always consider it dirty.

1. Screw SHU
2. It was completely dirty. Legal but dirty.
3. Screw SHU
4. I am all on board for Legal but dirty.
In the off-season I posted multiple times that Pike needed to fill our vacant staff position with someone’s “uncle” or HS coach. Instead we made an internal hire.....

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I get that it's your rival but hiring Tiny Morton wasn't dirty. It was, and still is, within the rules.

But I know it's your rival so you, and many other RU fans, will likely always consider it dirty.

The only dirty thing about it was paying whitehead. Outside of that I wish pike played for keeps and would make a hire like that

 

[Zak57]

Wrong wrong and wrong. Shaq carter came down to RU and middle tenn state. We were geos only major offer. He would be at umass if it wasnt for pike. No one knows what offers duke had but it wasnt a ton despite being a 4*. Mathis did have a good deal probably 4-6 commitable p6 offers. Mulcahy did not not not have 9 p6 offers. People still think he had nova and ND offers

Aren't you contradicting yourself lately? You say Pike is not a good recruiter but then you also think we have more talent than more than half of the B1G teams. How does that make any sense?

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Aren't you contradicting yourself lately? You say Pike is not a good recruiter but then you also think we have more talent than more than half of the B1G teams. How does that make any sense?

We have talent to work with no doubt. But again, its not like weve been beating out legit schools for these kids.

 

[Scangg]

If an assistant spot opens up it has to be a recruiter or an offensive guru

Since we don't play the bagman game, does going after transfers make more sense as a recruiting strategy or is that still the same concept?

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

If an assistant spot opens up it has to be a recruiter or an offensive guru

Since we don't play the bagman game, does going after transfers make more sense as a recruiting strategy or is that still the same concept?

Agreed with the transfer route. Thats how gonzaga and texas tech have built their teams. San diego state as well. People like @NewJerseyHawk will tell you, that you cant build a good program through transfers but thats just not correct.

 

[BigEastPhil]

I get that it's your rival but hiring Tiny Morton wasn't dirty. It was, and still is, within the rules.

But I know it's your rival so you, and many other RU fans, will likely always consider it dirty.

Dirty doesn't mean illegal......it means it's scuzzy....it means it smells......which it did with Tiny Morton.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Wrong wrong and wrong. Shaq carter came down to RU and middle tenn state. We were geos only major offer. He would be at umass if it wasnt for pike. No one knows what offers duke had but it wasnt a ton despite being a 4*. Mathis did have a good deal probably 4-6 commitable p6 offers. Mulcahy did not not not have 9 p6 offers. People still think he had nova and ND offers

Geo did have an offer from K State. Mathis had an offer from UConn amongst other schools. Mulcahy had an offer from Northwestern. Have no idea on Dourcore or Carter.

 

[Russ Wood]

1. Screw SHU
2. It was completely dirty. Legal but dirty.
3. Screw SHU
4. I am all on board for Legal but dirty.
In the off-season I posted multiple times that Pike needed to fill our vacant staff position with someone’s “uncle” or HS coach. Instead we made an internal hire.....

I remember some of those posts. Thing is if you add an uncle, guardian or even a father it can backfire in an epic way. Take the Lawson brothers at Memphis under Josh Pastner. The team chemistry went right into the toilet with those kids and their father in one camp and the rest of the team listening to the head coach. Players started transferring, it became a hot mess. If a program adds a HS coach, it helps if that coach really wants to be a college basketball coach and isn't in it for the short term.

Tough call to make.

I prefer hiring an actual experienced college assistant who coached a travel team program for a few years. A program that is usually stocked with talent. He will likely still have ties to that program and may have also have strong relationships in particular region that you're trying to pull kids from.

 

[Russ Wood]

Dirty doesn't mean illegal......it means it's scuzzy....it means it smells......which it did with Tiny Morton.

Why? Because it was Tiny Morton? Because it was Seton Hall? Because RU didn't think of it before Seton Hall? Or because of a little bit of all three?

 

[ancienthooper]

The endorsement of RU dirty recruiting tells you all you want to know about the character of the characters on this board.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The endorsement of RU dirty recruiting tells you all you want to know about the character of the characters on this board.

There is nothing, zlich, nadaaa, illegal about hiring a tiny morton type. You stick to losing honorably pal, i’ll go with winning

 

[ancienthooper]

There is nothing, zlich, nadaaa, illegal about hiring a tiny morton type. You stick to losing honorably pal, i’ll go with winning

Nothing to do with Tiny Morton. My comment was directed at RU supporters who have expressed that they would gladly endorse rule-breaking and unethical behavior if it translated into wins. Fortunately, and despite the years of suffering, I believe the overwhelming majority of RU fans would still rather do it the right way. You don't happen to be one of them. Shocker.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Nothing to do with Tiny Morton. My comment was directed at RU supporters who have expressed that they would gladly endorse rule-breaking and unethical behavior if it translated into wins. Fortunately, and despite the years of suffering, I believe the overwhelming majority of RU fans would still rather do it the right way. You don't happen to be one of them. Shocker.

you're wrong lol. I'd have zero problem paying players to get them here, everyone else is doing it who is successful.

What's the worst that happens we get a 2 year post season ban? We've had a 30 year post-season ban, I could deal with 2 year ban in return for even just 3-4 years of 4* and 5* recruits.

 

[sct1111]

Wrong wrong and wrong. Shaq carter came down to RU and middle tenn state. We were geos only major offer. He would be at umass if it wasnt for pike. No one knows what offers duke had but it wasnt a ton despite being a 4*. Mathis did have a good deal probably 4-6 commitable p6 offers. Mulcahy did not not not have 9 p6 offers. People still think he had nova and ND offers

Are you saying rivals and 247 is wrong about their offers and you are right?

 

[Big boy stan]

It is possible for Pike to be a "good" recruiter when it comes to identifying under recruited players with few offers and a "bad" recruiter when it comes to competing with other P6 programs for the national recruits. Being able to find the Geo's and other undiscovered treasures of the basketball world is an amazing skill but I think if is much harder to get that right consistently.

If RU is the cleanest of the clean but the other BIG programs are "pretty" clean, then that takes away the excuse that everyone is cheating but us so we cant compete. In 2019, the BIG had 13 of the the top 150 players listed on 247, and this year they have 19, none of which are RU. IMO, it is hard to call Pike a "good" recruiter with that stat.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Are you saying rivals and 247 is wrong about their offers and you are right?

yes, I am. Unless of course you believe Corey Bolds had offers from Bama and Clemson.

 

[Scangg]

Nothing to do with Tiny Morton. My comment was directed at RU supporters who have expressed that they would gladly endorse rule-breaking and unethical behavior if it translated into wins. Fortunately, and despite the years of suffering, I believe the overwhelming majority of RU fans would still rather do it the right way. You don't happen to be one of them. Shocker.

One could argue that the exploitation of college athletes is what is truly unethical and that paying players is actually the ethical thing to do

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

It is possible for Pike to be a "good" recruiter when it comes to identifying under recruited players with few offers and a "bad" recruiter when it comes to competing with other P6 programs for the national recruits. Being able to find the Geo's and other undiscovered treasures of the basketball world is an amazing skill but I think if is much harder to get that right consistently.

If RU is the cleanest of the clean but the other BIG programs are "pretty" clean, then that takes away the excuse that everyone is cheating but us so we cant compete. In 2019, the BIG had 13 of the the top 150 players listed on 247, and this year they have 19, none of which are RU. IMO, it is hard to call Pike a "good" recruiter with that stat.

I think what you mean to say is you think he's a good identifier of talent. Recruiter means ability to get someone to your institution when they have comparable options to go elsewhere.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

I think what you mean to say is you think he's a good identifier of talent. Recruiter means ability to get someone to your institution when they have comparable options to go elsewhere.

That’s correct and he is a good identifier of underrated talent (e.g., Omoruyi, Baker, McConnell, Harper, Johnson)...aside from a few exceptions like Souf, Doucoure, Bullock, and Kiss. However, when you are a P5 team, I would think it’s easier to get commitments from kids that other P5 schools have overlooked.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Agreed with the transfer route. Thats how gonzaga and texas tech have built their teams. San diego state as well. People like @NewJerseyHawk will tell you, that you cant build a good program through transfers but thats just not correct.

You cannot build a program via counting on transfers, but that may change...San Diego State captured transfers all after their coaches were fired for the players at their previous stops, therefore making them eligible ASAP.

If the transfer not having to sit-out rule passes, recruiting ultimately matters much less than before, because you aren't married to the players and vice versa....you can reshuffle your roster every spring.

And even though San Diego State and Texas Tech are good programs, there are 355 total programs....if there are 100 programs building their rosters off transfers, that;s fine....picking 5 out of 355, probably doesn't make sense.

Let's look at what the B1G or our competitors are doing and we can find mostly recruited players and a transfer in or out every year. Teams aren't normally shuffling 4 to 6 kids in and out of their roster....

RU actually has a transfer in, now 3 years in a row....2 of the Top 8 players on the roster are via transfer in Young and Yeboah.....Kiss was also a transfer 3 years ago....

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You cannot build a program via counting on transfers, but that may change...San Diego State captured transfers all after their coaches were fired for the players at their previous stops, therefore making them eligible ASAP.

If the transfer not having to sit-out rule passes, recruiting ultimately matters much less than before, because you aren't married to the players and vice versa....you can reshuffle your roster every spring.

And even though San Diego State and Texas Tech are good programs, there are 355 total programs....if there are 100 programs building their rosters off transfers, that;s fine....picking 5 out of 355, probably doesn't make sense.

Let's look at what the B1G or our competitors are doing and we can find mostly recruited players and a transfer in or out every year. Teams aren't normally shuffling 4 to 6 kids in and out of their roster....

RU actually has a transfer in, now 3 years in a row....2 of the Top 8 players on the roster are via transfer in Young and Yeboah.....Kiss was also a transfer 3 years ago....

I mean, i picked a national finalist and the longest undefeated team this year, if u want me to dive deeper i can. Another example is baylor who held the #1 spot longer than any team this year. Built off transfers

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I mean, i picked a national finalist and the longest undefeated team this year, if u want me to dive deeper i can. Another example is baylor who held the #1 spot longer than any team this year. Built off transfers

Baylor is a program that was already recruiting at a high level....they aren't in the building stages, they're in a reloading or reshuffling status....RU is not an established winning program that can cherry pick JUCO's etc...

Baylor's rebuild is actually much closer to recruiting the right players that others didn't want, vs a list of high profile kids with 20 plus offers....they have a JUCO guard in Bandoo (had a RU offer) a D3 player and a couple of other grinders. It's not a list of McDonald's AA's like Kansas or Duke/UNC etc....

It would be just easier to say I don't like Pike vs trying to denigrate him or his work, when it's crystal clear that RU is better than last year or the year before...and projects to be better next year than this year.

The program "should" be more attractive now and next year, vs not having had a winning season since 2006....It's one of the bigger hurdles that other coaches use against RU, along with "no commitment to facilities or coaches"....our coaches are well compensated for and our facilities now can match or exceed what others have. But that wasn't the starting point for Pike recruiting when he started here in 2016.....

 

[Big boy stan]

It would be just easier to say I don't like Pike vs trying to denigrate him or his work, when it's crystal clear that RU is better than last year or the year before...and projects to be better next year than this year.

I actually like Pike and believe he has done a very good job. IMO however recruiting seems to be lagging what I would have expected year over year. The reasons you list (history, facilities, etc) may be the biggest factors or the lack of getting dirty may be.

Given a choice between the two extremes of:
A) Filling a team with under recruited talent that takes a redshirt and some good coaching to win
-- or --
B) Dropping money for a bunch of one and dones

... I would much prefer Rutgers to build a top 25 team built through method A. I just wonder if that is possible.