RU recruiting vs the BIG

[Big boy stan]

Other then what breaks in the national news, I admit I know little of how corrupt CBB recruiting is and who are the worst offenders. As some/most of this has criminal repercussions, I am guessing few on this board really know what actually happens behind closed doors but I am guessing we have our thoughts and opinions.

I see comments on how clean Pike is and how top recruits will never come here for that reason. The BIG has Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Purdue with top 25 recruiting classes right now including a total of ten 5*/4*. Does most of this happen not happen without bagmen and backdoor alumni?

With that said, how different is RU from its BIG brothers with respect to these type of shady activities?

 

[Zak57]

If Rutgers really is doing any shady stuff it's not like anyone is going to tell us on a public message board.

 

[Big boy stan]

If Rutgers really is doing any shady stuff it's not like anyone is going to tell us on a public message board.

I get that and even made a similar comment on my first post. I am not really expecting any concrete evidence of recruiting violations by RU or any other program. Just looking for opinions. I have read more than a few comments about other programs, mostly outside of the BIG, having a better chance at a recruit because of money.

Historically, The BIG does not get the top recruits in the nation (except maybe Michigan). If the BIG as a whole is pretty clean and all schools are are even footing, then it just comes down to coaches being good recruiters. If some BIG schools are playing per Rick Pitino's rules, then being a good recruiter may not be enough.

 

[bac2therac]

Indiana got a commit from a 5 star point guard

 

[BadgerInSpartyland]

In 2017, college coaches were asked which coaches did things by the book. At that time there were 4 B1G coaches in the top 8 in the country - Bielein was #1, Gard tied for 3rd, Holtmann & Izzo tied for 6th (may have been asked before the whole scandal at MSU). the other 4 were Brey, Bennett, Few, and Weber (who competes directly with one of the dirtiest in KS).

In the B1G now (aside from the 3 current coaches mentioned above), I would rate, Pikiell, Painter, and Chambers as probably pretty clean. I have questions/suspicions about all the others: Pitino (dad), Underwood (got in trouble at Okla St), Miller (brother), Collins (Dukie), Hoiberg (builds mainly through transfers), Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating), and Turgeon (aware of some shenanigans recruiting-wise). That leaves ol' Frantrum, who I can't decide on - generally he's clean-ish, but there have been some questionable things.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Indiana got a commit from a 5 star point guard

 

[Degaz-RU]

In 2017, college coaches were asked which coaches did things by the book. At that time there were 4 B1G coaches in the top 8 in the country - Bielein was #1, Gard tied for 3rd, Holtmann & Izzo tied for 6th (may have been asked before the whole scandal at MSU). the other 4 were Brey, Bennett, Few, and Weber (who competes directly with one of the dirtiest in KS).

In the B1G now (aside from the 3 current coaches mentioned above), I would rate, Pikiell, Painter, and Chambers as probably pretty clean. I have questions/suspicions about all the others: Pitino (dad), Underwood (got in trouble at Okla St), Miller (brother), Collins (Dukie), Hoiberg (builds mainly through transfers), Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating), and Turgeon (aware of some shenanigans recruiting-wise). That leaves ol' Frantrum, who I can't decide on - generally he's clean-ish, but there have been some questionable things.

"Frantrum" - hilarious.

 

[BadgerInSpartyland]

And just like that, Hoiberg has now landed Wisconsin transfer Kobe King...

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I was fortunate enough to attend a couple of AAU events over the years and the only schools on a national scale, that you do not hear about involved with shenanigans are Wisconsin, Northwestern, Stanford, RU and UVA. There are "one-offs" with certain schools once in a while, but I feel fairly confident in this overview over an extended period of time. The specific item is not tied to the HC, the "unfair" aspect of it, falls to the assistant coaches that are asked to sacrifice their lives/reputations in order to secure top-end talent.

On a smaller scale, I don't think in recent years Iowa, Kansas State, Villanova and a couple of others, have a repeated pattern of doing things off the radar.. I will leave out the smaller conferences and Ivy League programs and I don't think all families and or coaches have their hands out....and I also think some families or programs would be insulted if you inquired about their player and didn't offer something for the right to recruit their son for their programs........and others frankly are 100% insulted if you don't contribute to their hard work in coaching these kids up for 4 to 7 years, to the point they're a top prospect.

Some families are more in-line with looking for a coaching staff that is genuinely looking out for the best interest of the players development and ensuring an education is a part of that process. The million dollar question for a RU, UVA, Stanford, Wisconsin will be whether there are enough "kids without coaches or families with their hands out" that are specifically looking for the best program for their players to grow develop etc and secure an education.....Don't discuss education is a priority for your player or son and not have UVA, Stanford, the Ivies or RU on your final list of schools and instead decide that Auburn LSU,or Arizona State are on your final list of schools.

The pattern of kids RU has been targeting for 2021 and 2022, are kids that have Ivy offers and offers from higher caliber major programs that you can tell right away, they're not viewing college basketball as a vehicle to become an NBA player....those families are smarter and established and don't need anything else other than, what's your depth chart, will my son be held accountable on and off the court and will you win games....??

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

In 2017, college coaches were asked which coaches did things by the book. At that time there were 4 B1G coaches in the top 8 in the country - Bielein was #1, Gard tied for 3rd, Holtmann & Izzo tied for 6th (may have been asked before the whole scandal at MSU). the other 4 were Brey, Bennett, Few, and Weber (who competes directly with one of the dirtiest in KS).

In the B1G now (aside from the 3 current coaches mentioned above), I would rate, Pikiell, Painter, and Chambers as probably pretty clean. I have questions/suspicions about all the others: Pitino (dad), Underwood (got in trouble at Okla St), Miller (brother), Collins (Dukie), Hoiberg (builds mainly through transfers), Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating), and Turgeon (aware of some shenanigans recruiting-wise). That leaves ol' Frantrum, who I can't decide on - generally he's clean-ish, but there have been some questionable things.

I probably should include Purdue in my assessment above, but am leery that Gonzaga doesn't have an international pipeline that circumvents the traditional AAU/HS pool of kids that are picking Kentucky/Duke, Kansas etc.

 

[Russ Wood]

In 2017, college coaches were asked which coaches did things by the book. At that time there were 4 B1G coaches in the top 8 in the country - Bielein was #1, Gard tied for 3rd, Holtmann & Izzo tied for 6th (may have been asked before the whole scandal at MSU). the other 4 were Brey, Bennett, Few, and Weber (who competes directly with one of the dirtiest in KS).

In the B1G now (aside from the 3 current coaches mentioned above), I would rate, Pikiell, Painter, and Chambers as probably pretty clean. I have questions/suspicions about all the others: Pitino (dad), Underwood (got in trouble at Okla St), Miller (brother), Collins (Dukie), Hoiberg (builds mainly through transfers), Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating), and Turgeon (aware of some shenanigans recruiting-wise). That leaves ol' Frantrum, who I can't decide on - generally he's clean-ish, but there have been some questionable things.

What did Brad Underwood do at Oklahoma State?

Still upset about Diamond Stone?

 

[blockm2]

Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating)

So because a guy who died over 20 years ago gave Chris Webber money in the 1980s you have concerns about Juwan Howard and a "legacy of cheating"? Juwan can recruit well because he is a relatively young black man at a school with both a history of success and recent success and he can relate to basically everyone. Almost everybody in the NBA loves him and as a former 5 star recruit he can relate to kids and families that he meets in a way most coaches cannot. He has been in their shoes, he made it to the NBA, he earned >$100M in salary, and he is friends with all their heros like LeBron and he wants to help them do the same thing.

I mean there is almost no way he couldn't be a great recruiter. He is one of the most personable and likeable people you could ever meet.

 

[huskersalways]

In 2017, college coaches were asked which coaches did things by the book. At that time there were 4 B1G coaches in the top 8 in the country - Bielein was #1, Gard tied for 3rd, Holtmann & Izzo tied for 6th (may have been asked before the whole scandal at MSU). the other 4 were Brey, Bennett, Few, and Weber (who competes directly with one of the dirtiest in KS).

In the B1G now (aside from the 3 current coaches mentioned above), I would rate, Pikiell, Painter, and Chambers as probably pretty clean. I have questions/suspicions about all the others: Pitino (dad), Underwood (got in trouble at Okla St), Miller (brother), Collins (Dukie), Hoiberg (builds mainly through transfers), Howard (Fab 5 legacy of cheating), and Turgeon (aware of some shenanigans recruiting-wise). That leaves ol' Frantrum, who I can't decide on - generally he's clean-ish, but there have been some questionable things.

That’s strange that you would list Hoiberg as “suspicious” for using the transfer/juco route when one of the main reasons he has publicly said is that he doesn’t want to deal with the “handlers” and “slime” that AAU and the likes has. He only wants to deal with a kid and his parents/legal guardian and not AAU coaches and them types.

 

[blockm2]

Historically, The BIG does not get the top recruits in the nation (except maybe Michigan).

Michigan's last McD's AA was in 2002 although that will change this year.

 

[Vassar69]

What did Brad Underwood do at Oklahoma State?

Still upset about Diamond Stone?

Nothing. Underwood was only there for a season (didn’t leave under sketchy circumstances, Illinois just offered him a 3x raise after his first year at OSU). After his only season there, an assistant was indicted for taking bribes to steer NBA prospects from OSU to a particular agent, but that was after a kid was leaving the school, not being recruited to the school.

 

[Gavin1026]

Indiana got a commit from a 5 star point guard

Yeah but he is from Indiana and they have always recruited the top in state kids well

 

[RUich]

Wonder how many things happen by alumni/rich fans which the school, at least initially, have no idea is happening?
Virtually impossible to monitor everyone out there.
Of course, some things like a recruit from the hood now driving an expensive sports car could be a bit suspicious. :Money: :MoneyBags::Money: :MoneyBags::Money: :MoneyBags:

 

[Big boy stan]

the only schools on a national scale, that you do not hear about involved with shenanigans are Wisconsin, Northwestern, Stanford, RU and UVA.

Lucky us to be fans of one of the schools on this list. It's like picking a date for the prom that turns out to be the only girl in school that is saving herself.

 

[Russ Wood]

Nothing. Underwood was only there for a season (didn’t leave under sketchy circumstances, Illinois just offered him a 3x raise after his first year at OSU). After his only season there, an assistant was indicted for taking bribes to steer NBA prospects from OSU to a particular agent, but that was after a kid was leaving the school, not being recruited to the school.

That's how I remember it.

 

[Scangg]

That’s strange that you would list Hoiberg as “suspicious” for using the transfer/juco route when one of the main reasons he has publicly said is that he doesn’t want to deal with the “handlers” and “slime” that AAU and the likes has. He only wants to deal with a kid and his parents/legal guardian and not AAU coaches and them types.

Interesting, maybe Rutgers should look at that type of strategy if we aren't playing the bagman game.

Does the bagman tend to visit transfers?

 

[BigEastPhil]

Indiana just got a commitment from a 5* for 2021. Underwood is killing it in Chicago. Howard has a monster class coming in at Michigan.

 

[brookdale-soda]

Can anyone explain how the typical AAU unsavory corruption works? Asking for a friend.

 

[NickRU714]

Here is an easy and local example:

2013/2014 - Williard at Seton Hall is on the hot seat after a couple mediocre years. He revamps his coaching staff and hires the "associates/coaches" of top HS players.
2014 recruiting class shoots up to Top 15 in the country.
One 5-star
One 4-star
Three 3-star
Year 1 they struggle
Year 2 they won the Big East Tournament
The rest has been history and they've made the NCAA tourney every year since.


2019 - Pike/Rutgers has an empty coaching spot. After a long and exhaustive search, we made an internal promotion.

 

[IL Lusciato]

Indiana just got a commitment from a 5* for 2021. Underwood is killing it in Chicago. Howard has a monster class coming in at Michigan.

More bad news for us.

As I said in another thread, this may well be Pike's ceiling.

 

[blockm2]

More bad news for us.

As I said in another thread, this may well be Pike's ceiling.

I find it hard to call something a ceiling that is improving year after year. I mean returning the same lineup next year should result in even further improvement as players tend to improve over careers.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

To make it simple.

1) pikes level of recruiting is unacceptable.
2) when you realize you struggle mightily recruiting and an assistant spot opens up you dont hire a 50 somethin year old introverted white dude.

 

[mikeylew1992]

AAU is a cancer to basketball in general. They really need to do an overhaul with AAU in general

 

[thegock]

I was surprised that last night's opposing B1G man had been arrested four times. Just curious how Mike Watkins legal record would impact, say, his court time were he at Rutgers? But who understands those Pedophile Enablers, anyway.

 

[Russ Wood]

Can anyone explain how the typical AAU unsavory corruption works? Asking for a friend.

Can you be more specific?

 

[brookdale-soda]

Can you be more specific?

I was only joking. The question i have is how does nefarious basketball recruiting methods differ from football?

 

[Big boy stan]

I was only joking. The question i have is how does nefarious basketball recruiting methods differ from football?

I was wondering that too. There seems to be a lot more stories of this in CBB then CFB and I am not sure why.

 

[brookdale-soda]

I was wondering that too. There seems to be a lot more stories of this in CBB then CFB and I am not sure why.

I know. I have actually heard from D1 football coaches whom have said, football recruiting is clean as a whistle as compared to D1 basketball.

 

[Russ Wood]

I was only joking. The question i have is how does nefarious basketball recruiting methods differ from football?

In football it is usually a booster, or group of boosters 'dropping bags' as the saying goes. Also, the boosters seem to be excellent at keeping their mouths shut around people they don't know and are very good at not talking 'business' on the phone. At least in an obvious way.

In basketball it is usually a shoe company
'dropping bags'

 

[BigEastPhil]

To make it simple.

1) pikes level of recruiting is unacceptable.
2) when you realize you struggle mightily recruiting and an assistant spot opens up you dont hire a 50 somethin year old introverted white dude.

My thoughts:

Let’s wait and see whether we re able to land Cliff. If so, perception of Pikes ability to recruit changes big time

Hayn actually recruited Palmquist. Granted it may not have been against tough competition, but let’s hope Palmquist is the real deal shooter we need

On Pikes recruiting, I think he realizes he can’t compete against the big boys so he settles and goes after the under recruited kids. It’s fine with me. We ll get solid kids

You mention Hayn but has Brandon Knight or Karl Hobbs or Jay Young kicked *** on the recruiting trail? I don’t think so

Unless we want to play the dirty game and bring in a Tiny Morton type, we have to rely upon Pike spoting the gem or hoping a local stud like Cliff wants to stay home.

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

My thoughts:

Let’s wait and see whether we re able to land Cliff. If so, perception of Pikes ability to recruit changes big time

Hayn actually recruited Palmquist. Granted it may not have been against tough competition, but let’s hope Palmquist is the real deal shooter we need

On Pikes recruiting, I think he realizes he can’t compete against the big boys so he settles and goes after the under recruited kids. It’s fine with me. We ll get solid kids

You mention Hayn but has Brandon Knight or Karl Hobbs or Jay Young kicked *** on the recruiting trail? I don’t think so

Unless we want to play the dirty game and bring in a Tiny Morton type, we have to rely upon Pike spoting the gem or hoping a local stud like Cliff wants to stay home.

Not competing with the “big boys” is a cop out. We’re in the B1G and we’re bringing in A10 recruits for the most part. I’m not taking about Duke and UNC but we shouldn’t be 11th or 12th out of 14 B1G teams. I realize we have no history but Rice and Hill were bringing in higher ranked kids and we had no history then either.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

My thoughts:

Let’s wait and see whether we re able to land Cliff. If so, perception of Pikes ability to recruit changes big time

Hayn actually recruited Palmquist. Granted it may not have been against tough competition, but let’s hope Palmquist is the real deal shooter we need

On Pikes recruiting, I think he realizes he can’t compete against the big boys so he settles and goes after the under recruited kids. It’s fine with me. We ll get solid kids

You mention Hayn but has Brandon Knight or Karl Hobbs or Jay Young kicked *** on the recruiting trail? I don’t think so

Unless we want to play the dirty game and bring in a Tiny Morton type, we have to rely upon Pike spoting the gem or hoping a local stud like Cliff wants to stay home.

1) knight and hobbs position wasnt open, youngs was. You HAD TO hire a great recruiter there.
2) i wanna play the dirty game and hire a tiny morton type. As long as their brought on as a full time assistant their guys are fair game
3) if were getting under the radar kids, ok. But were not. In total our roster has a grand total of less than 10 p6 offers other than Rutgers.
Ron- nebraska, shu
Geo- zero
Caleb- MAYBE mizzou
Myles- zero
Shaq- zero
Kwasi- grad transfer
Young- transfer who didnt have many options when he left texas
Kiss- zero
Duke- who knows
Montez- a handful.
mulcahy- a lot less than people think

 

[Pancho1939_rivals]

To make it simple.

1) pikes level of recruiting is unacceptable.
2) when you realize you struggle mightily recruiting and an assistant spot opens up you dont hire a 50 somethin year old introverted white dude.

What has Hobbs or knight done? Who are their big recruits? Doesn’t Hobbs run the offense? Hahn’s first year is the best they have been.

why would pikiell risk his reputation or the university’s reputation by bringing in a shady character or someone in under a shady circumstance just for 1 player like Arizona state did?

pikiell’s level of recruiting will be determined over next two years. To say it is not acceptable is wrong considering we are on the bubble of ncaa tournemt with a core of sophomores. Whatever he is doing it is working.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Not competing with the “big boys” is a cop out. We’re in the B1G and we’re bringing in A10 recruits for the most part. I’m not taking about Duke and UNC but we shouldn’t be 11th or 12th out of 14 B1G teams. I realize we have no history but Rice and Hill were bringing in higher ranked kids and we had no history then either.

We re competing for Cliff aren’t we? It’s between us and ASU or am I wrong? We’re going after other 4 star kids. Hopefully we win some but if not, get the under recruited gems like Geo, Harper etc. Pike has a talent in this area.

And what’s with “ we re in the B1G 10? The Old BIg East mopped the floor with this conference and I didn’t see us bringing in too many big fish in our old conference either

 

[HallX2]

Here is an easy and local example:

2013/2014 - Williard at Seton Hall is on the hot seat after a couple mediocre years. He revamps his coaching staff and hires the "associates/coaches" of top HS players.
2014 recruiting class shoots up to Top 15 in the country.
One 5-star
One 4-star
Three 3-star
Year 1 they struggle
Year 2 they won the Big East Tournament
The rest has been history and they've made the NCAA tourney every year since.


2019 - Pike/Rutgers has an empty coaching spot. After a long and exhaustive search, we made an internal promotion.

Didn’t Duke hire the “uncle” of the kid who jilted RU?

 

[sct1111]

1) knight and hobbs position wasnt open, youngs was. You HAD TO hire a great recruiter there.
2) i wanna play the dirty game and hire a tiny morton type. As long as their brought on as a full time assistant their guys are fair game
3) if were getting under the radar kids, ok. But were not. In total our roster has a grand total of less than 10 p6 offers other than Rutgers.
Ron- nebraska, shu
Geo- zero
Caleb- MAYBE mizzou
Myles- zero
Shaq- zero
Kwasi- grad transfer
Young- transfer who didnt have many options when he left texas
Kiss- zero
Duke- who knows
Montez- a handful.
mulcahy- a lot less than people think

I'm pretty sure Geo had an offer from KState, Caleb from WVU. Ducoure had a bunch as did Mathis. Shaq Carter had 8 power six offers. Mulcahy had 9 himself.

So honestly you're pretty wrong about that.